Liberals who aren't liberal

20Cent

take everything wrote: »

That Blimp is appalling body shaming though.
It's no loss.

Bit of masking take and it was back up within minutes.
Turns out the slasher woman is a Britan first alt right character. Was videos recently screaming at a Tory mp through her loudspeaker about how he wasn't Brexit enough.

The Late Late Show

take everything wrote: »

That Blimp is appalling body shaming though.
It's no loss.

This blimp thing is the sort of forgive the pun juvenile protests we get from people who are not the most thoughtful. Apart from mocking Trump, it is a protest that offers nothing. If you want a real protest, focus on issue and policy not on appearance.

There is no difference at all between this grotesque blimp thing and the equally grotesque depictions of Obama done at Tea Party rallies. Same fascist mentality in both cases and yes a form of bullying.

There are plenty ways to protest about issues and to focus on the right people. Trump is a convenient figurehead but a lot of the unpopular issues going on are done by others. By all means, protests should focus on the malign influence of the Saudis on this and all recent American governments or on the flying of Nazi flags at some rallies, etc. If we want to see a change in policy, we do need to focus on the issues not the personalities.

The Late Late Show

20Cent wrote: »

Bit of masking take and it was back up within minutes.
Turns out the slasher woman is a Britan first alt right character. Was videos recently screaming at a Tory mp through her loudspeaker about how he wasn't Brexit enough.

When you get these types who are intolerant of all others, trouble is not too far away. Alt right, far right, far left, alt left, alt whatever is all we are hearing in politics these days and this is the sort of toxic politics that lead to paranoid tyrants on both the right and left such as Hitler and Stalin. We do not want to go back to those days.

20Cent

The Late Late Show wrote: »

When you get these types who are intolerant of all others, trouble is not too far away. Alt right, far right, far left, alt left, alt whatever is all we are hearing in politics these days and this is the sort of toxic politics that lead to paranoid tyrants on both the right and left such as Hitler and Stalin. We do not want to go back to those days.

Do you think nazi's should be allowed march about hand out flyers, recruit in public and be given platforms on TV, radio and other media?

The Late Late Show

20Cent wrote: »

Do you think nazi's should be allowed march about hand out flyers, recruit in public and be given platforms on TV, radio and other media?

No I do not think they should. The media pandering to all 'controversial' politicians is a major problem. Such types get more media attention than conventional moderate politicians. Whether this is deliberately done to support them or not, the end result is they get more publicity and get a following.

The Late Late Show

All these organisations that spring up often online relating to one country and then copied elsewhere are the same. While all fascist, they actually say they set themselves up to target other fascists:

For example, fascist movement PEGIDA (represented by Identity Ireland here) hate Muslims, who they brand as fascist. ANTIFA then would in turn hate PEGIDA and would view them as fascist. All would engage in hooliganism especially if they meet.

Zorya

Outlaw Pete wrote: »

This old man was thrown to the grown earlier for wearing pro-trump apparel:


https://twitter.com/RealSaavedra/status/1136026511910232064

Nasty. These people are nasty. And no whataboutery regarding attacks elsewhere by ''right''wingers is needed. Judging one event on its own merits the videos I have seen of the freedom fighters protesting Trump in London are repulsive. What has happened to people?

Zorya

peddlelies wrote: »

Surprised you're still posting after you made an eejit of yourself in that Jordan Peterson thread.

And what is this? You created a thread supporting these antifa type goons, at least everyone can know where your priorities lie as you scrutinize people from your far left world view.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=107778690

Surprised you are still posting when your modus operandi is solely based on attacking the poster.

Atoms for Peace

Classical, social, neo-con, liberalterian? You've got to be more specific OP.

KikiLaRue

I’ve never understood liberal to mean “tolerant of all views”. I understand it to mean concerned with the individual’s liberty - freedoms and rights for all regardless of colour or creed, gender or sexual orientation.

Marry who you want, get the job you want (assuming you’re qualified etc), do what you want (within the law), get an abortion if you want to.

I believe in these things, so as a matter of logic I’ll be against racism, sexism and homophobia and I will not be “tolerant” of those views.

On abortion, I respect someone’s right to be pro-life but I don’t think they should get to dictate what other women do, on immigration I’m okay with someone raising concerns about long-term planning and how we manage it but I’m not okay with thinly veiled racism.

To me a liberal must stand up for their own views, which necessitates challenging alternative viewpoints.

20Cent

peddlelies wrote: »

Surprised you're still posting after you made an eejit of yourself in that Jordan Peterson thread.

And what is this? You created a thread supporting these antifa type goons, at least everyone can know where your priorities lie as you scrutinize people from your far left world view.

https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?p=107778690

Another strawman. Being anti fascist isn't "far left".

From the video it looks like the old fella grabbed someones sign and was pulling it off them. What about their freedom of speech? Self defence is legal.

ohnonotgmail

KikiLaRue wrote: »

I’ve never understood liberal to mean “tolerant of all views”. I understand it to mean concerned with the individual’s liberty - freedoms and rights for all regardless of colour or creed, gender or sexual orientation.

Marry who you want, get the job you want (assuming you’re qualified etc), do what you want (within the law), get an abortion if you want to.

I believe in these things, so as a matter of logic I’ll be against racism, sexism and homophobia and I will not be “tolerant” of those views.

On abortion, I respect someone’s right to be pro-life but I don’t think they should get to dictate what other women do, on immigration I’m okay with someone raising concerns about long-term planning and how we manage it but I’m not okay with thinly veiled racism.

To me a liberal must stand up for their own views, which necessitates challenging alternative viewpoints.

It is really best to ignore rubbish like this. It is just another far-right tactic to get the opposition to lay down and let the facists do what they want.

20Cent

Zorya wrote: »

Nasty. These people are nasty. And no whataboutery regarding attacks elsewhere by ''right''wingers is needed. Judging one event on its own merits the videos I have seen of the freedom fighters protesting Trump in London are repulsive. What has happened to people?

Trump wants to use the NHS as a bargaining chip in trade talks. He wants to open it up for privatisation where people go bankrupt over basic healthcare.
People are right to be angry about that it's self defence pretty much.
9ne video from tens of thousands of people. Also the guy attacked them. There is a whole industry of grifters who go to protests, antagonise people and then video the reaction crying about "the left".

Edgware

20Cent wrote: »

Do you think nazi's should be allowed march about hand out flyers, recruit in public and be given platforms on TV, radio and other media?

If that keeps them from going on to act the bollix no harm done.
The lefty crowd do that all the time. It keeps them occupied and stops them doing anything harmful

Hector Savage

The Late Late Show wrote: »

I absolutely despise the far right. That said and done, the far left are not any better. Any fanatics who resort to violence are the same and decent people should not support this. There is a saying: the far left and far right meet each other in the same place because extremism is the same no matter what the cause.

Indeed, it's the horseshoe effect, it's real.

Hector Savage

20Cent wrote: »

Do you think nazi's should be allowed march about hand out flyers, recruit in public and be given platforms on TV, radio and other media?

No.

But the problem here is the definition of Nazi has changed, just look at that video yesterday of the fat girl screaming with venom and hate NAZI NAZI NAZI .... at a guy wearing a MAGA hat !! ????

Hector Savage

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

It is really best to ignore rubbish like this. It is just another far-right tactic to get the opposition to lay down and let the facists do what they want.

WOW!!!!!

You have outdone yourself ...

Originally Posted by KikiLaRue View Post
I’ve never understood liberal to mean “tolerant of all views”. I understand it to mean concerned with the individual’s liberty - freedoms and rights for all regardless of colour or creed, gender or sexual orientation.

Marry who you want, get the job you want (assuming you’re qualified etc), do what you want (within the law), get an abortion if you want to.

I believe in these things, so as a matter of logic I’ll be against racism, sexism and homophobia and I will not be “tolerant” of those views.

On abortion, I respect someone’s right to be pro-life but I don’t think they should get to dictate what other women do, on immigration I’m okay with someone raising concerns about long-term planning and how we manage it but I’m not okay with thinly veiled racism.

To me a liberal must stand up for their own views, which necessitates challenging alternative viewpoints.

Yeah ... FAR RIGHT indeed.
:rolleyes:

recedite

KikiLaRue wrote: »

I’ve never understood liberal to mean “tolerant of all views”. I understand it to mean concerned with the individual’s liberty - freedoms and rights for all regardless of colour or creed, gender or sexual orientation.

Marry who you want, get the job you want (assuming you’re qualified etc), do what you want (within the law), get an abortion if you want to.

I believe in these things, so as a matter of logic I’ll be against racism, sexism and homophobia and I will not be “tolerant” of those views.

On abortion, I respect someone’s right to be pro-life but I don’t think they should get to dictate what other women do, on immigration I’m okay with someone raising concerns about long-term planning and how we manage it but I’m not okay with thinly veiled racism.

To me a liberal must stand up for their own views, which necessitates challenging alternative viewpoints.

Nigeria's population of 198 million is increasing by around 3% a year. That's nearly 6 million extra people every year - far more than the entire population of Ireland.
Am I racist for saying that is their problem, not ours?
Whats this "long-term planning" you think we should be doing?
https://www.cfr.org/blog/nigeria-faces-crippling-population-boom

Nigeria’s urban population growth has not been accompanied by a “commensurate increase in social amenities and infrastructure.” More generally, economic growth has not kept up with population growth. Hence, the enormous slums outside city centers. In effect, Nigeria has no population policy that would limit births, and Nigerians have traditionally valued large families. Yet the country’s rapid population growth, especially in urban areas, poses difficult economic, social, and public health challenges. A huge, rapidly growing population is not necessarily a source of national strength.

And that's only one country in Africa.


You don't really respect the pro-life position, those are only empty words.
If somebody is pro-life, of course they will want to protect the unborn from being killed. Its nonsense to say you respect the position in some abstract way, but at the same time you won't allow the unborn to be protected.



You say you are against sexism. Does that mean you are against gender quotas?


You say you are against homophobia. Does that mean you want the excellent rugby player Israel Folau sacked, just because he quoted some verses from the bible?

is_that_so

The Late Late Show wrote: »

No I do not think they should. The media pandering to all 'controversial' politicians is a major problem. Such types get more media attention than conventional moderate politicians. Whether this is deliberately done to support them or not, the end result is they get more publicity and get a following.

Part of the difficulty of politics is that while it is fundamental to our lives in the sense that it establishes what we can and can't do, it is of itself fairly dull and full of compromise. That is not a theme the media can work with unless it can sell it as some form of gladiatorial entertainment with faux heroes and villains. Add in the apparent dystopia of Brexit/Trump and it becomes a heady brew generating an endless stream of bile.

As to the concept of liberal, outside of the need to make it part of the simplistic political name-calling I think tolerance is the closest to it. With tolerance there also needs to be respect even if you disagree. There's not a whole lot of that these days and many live in an echo chamber that convinces them they are right.

ohnonotgmail

Hector Savage wrote: »

WOW!!!!!

You have outdone yourself ...




Yeah ... FAR RIGHT indeed.
:rolleyes:

Well done on completely misunderstanding my post. I was agreeing with Kiki. When i said "rubbish like this" i was referring to the same nonsense that Kiki was refering to.

blackwhite

20Cent wrote: »

Do you think nazi's should be allowed march about hand out flyers, recruit in public and be given platforms on TV, radio and other media?

It's amazing how self-appointed vigilantes think they have the right to label anyone who disagrees with their hard-left views a "nazi" and think that gives them some moral authority to go and live out their twisted violent fantasies.

Violent scum will always invent some excuse to be violent scum.

KikiLaRue

recedite wrote: »

Nigeria's population of 198 million is increasing by around 3% a year. That's nearly 6 million extra people every year - far more than the entire population of Ireland.
Am I racist for saying that is their problem, not ours?
Whats this "long-term planning" you think we should be doing?
https://www.cfr.org/blog/nigeria-faces-crippling-population-boom
And that's only one country in Africa.

Well, according to the last census there are 17,500 Nigerians in Ireland out of a population of 4.8 million. So at 0.3% of our population, I don’t see Nigerian immigrants as a big issue.

Can you clarify why you do?

You don't really respect the pro-life position, those are only empty words.
If somebody is pro-life, of course they will want to protect the unborn from being killed. Its nonsense to say you respect the position in some abstract way, but at the same time you won't allow the unborn to be protected.

Thank you SO MUCH for explaining my opinion to me. I often find I understand things better once a man who knows nothing about me explains how I really feel to me.

You say you are against sexism. Does that mean you are against gender quotas?

I’m in two minds on quotas. I’d rather we found a better way to achieve equal representation but all the data shows that quotas work. Check out the impact they had on parliament in Botswana.

You say you are against homophobia. Does that mean you want the excellent rugby player Israel Folau sacked, just because he quoted some verses from the bible?

I think it doesn’t really matter whether he’s excellent or not a rugby in this question. Talent doesn’t mean different rules apply to you. I don’t know a lot about this guy but I believe he received a warning some time back on a similar matter and he made a choice to continue voicing homophobic views... so honestly whatever consequences he faces are on him.

Hedgelayer

The Late Late Show wrote: »

I absolutely despise the far right. That said and done, the far left are not any better. Any fanatics who resort to violence are the same and decent people should not support this. There is a saying: the far left and far right meet each other in the same place because extremism is the same no matter what the cause.

Well said

Gimme A Pound

The Late Late Show wrote: »

I absolutely despise the far right. That said and done, the far left are not any better. Any fanatics who resort to violence are the same and decent people should not support this. There is a saying: the far left and far right meet each other in the same place because extremism is the same no matter what the cause.

They have masses in common.

Hector Savage

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Well done on completely misunderstanding my post. I was agreeing with Kiki. When i said "rubbish like this" i was referring to the same nonsense that Kiki was refering to.

Apologies.

sbsquarepants

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

When you consider that playing "fairytale of New York" and "Rudolph the red nosed Reindeer" are almost considered hate speech by some of the delicate souls that exist, you're probably wise to keep your opinions to yourself.

I've heard the fairytale bolloxology, but what did poor old Rudolph do to deserve this opprobrium ? He rose from adversity, although bullied and excluded but the other reindeers it was he, and not they, who saved Christmas that fateful foggy Christmas eve.

That reindeer is an inspiration to us all if you ask me!

recedite

KikiLaRue wrote: »

Well, according to the last census there are 17,500 Nigerians in Ireland out of a population of 4.8 million. So at 0.3% of our population, I don’t see Nigerian immigrants as a big issue.

0.3% today, 0.4% tomorrow.
But in 20 years time Nigeria will still be 100% Nigerian. Whereas the Irish will probably be a minority in Ireland.

I’m in two minds on quotas. I’d rather we found a better way to achieve equal representation but all the data shows that quotas work. Check out the impact they had on parliament in Botswana.

So it turns out that you are in favour of sexism after all.

KikiLaRue wrote: »

I think it doesn’t really matter whether he’s excellent or not a rugby in this question. Talent doesn’t mean different rules apply to you. I don’t know a lot about this guy but I believe he received a warning some time back on a similar matter and he made a choice to continue voicing homophobic views... so honestly whatever consequences he faces are on him.

And it turns out that you are against Free Speech. If religion is against homosexual acts (and all the major world religions are) then you are fine with religious discrimination, even up to the point of sacking somebody from their job on account of their off-duty social media posts. A guy quotes the bible on twitter or facebook, and you grab your pitchfork.


You epitomise all that is most intolerant about the "progressive" and "liberal" agenda.

TheValeyard

Not sure who said this but..




Makes sense.

ohnonotgmail

recedite wrote: »

0.3% today, 0.4% tomorrow.
But in 20 years time Nigeria will still be 100% Nigerian. Whereas the Irish will probably be a minority in Ireland.



So it turns out that you are in favour of sexism after all.


And it turns out that you are against Free Speech. If religion is against homosexual acts (and all the major world religions are) then you are fine with religious discrimination, even up to the point of sacking somebody from their job on account of their off-duty social media posts. A guy quotes the bible on twitter or facebook, and you grab your pitchfork.


You epitomise all that is most intolerant about the "progressive" and "liberal" agenda.

The sacking of folau was not a free speech issue. He was sacked because he broke the rules of a contract he signed.

is_that_so

TheValeyard wrote: »

Not sure who said this but..




Makes sense.

Yeah Bill Maher made a point recently about Dems & "liberals" sticking to their type of media and refusing to go on the likes of Fox, whereas Steve Bannon, odious as he is, will show up anywhere to make his case.