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Is Totalitarianism on the rise on The Left?
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FrostyJack wrote: »So in short immigrants, fools who click there fingers interrupting people talking on college campuses and people who believe in different genders along with people who believe the MSN (along with AI, automation and Deep learning) are the greatest threats to humanity at the moment? This is what happens when you spend your day reading reddit or watching Fox News.
Identity politics is mostly pushed by the right, "white people are being oppressed", "minorities get priority everywhere", "trans people are going to eat your children", "gay people will run off with your husband". The extreme left on college campuses that turn up and say stupid stuff do not represent the majority of progressives. I cannot think of one person I know, even the ones that that are gay, that think there are 99 genders or 300 pound women that were born physically male should be allow enter womans wrestling tournaments. This narrative is solely being overblown by the right. Like banning Christmas every year. How does what sex someone calls themselves oppress you? If you were to drop a white male into anytime in human history in the majority of the World they would fair substantially better off than any other gender or race, this why historically males are seen to be privileged. A white male goes for any generic job, get a loan, get prison sentence (females would probably fair better there, but then again they commit less crime) in America they are more like to be successful than anyone else, so this White Privilege you talk of still exists today.
People distrust the media because the waters have been so badly muddied. I see you omitted climate change as a threat, which side muddied the water there? The real science deniers have, the same people who did the same for tobacco companies One leader constantly praises other leaders of totalitarian states like no other, I will let you guess who that is and which side of the divide he is on.
Its funny the only white people who are suggesting they are oppressed are feminists...hardly right wing are they?0 -
FrostyJack wrote: »So in short immigrants, fools who click there fingers interrupting people talking on college campuses and people who believe in different genders along with people who believe the MSN (along with AI, automation and Deep learning) are the greatest threats to humanity at the moment? This is what happens when you spend your day reading reddit or watching Fox News.
Identity politics is mostly pushed by the right, "white people are being oppressed", "minorities get priority everywhere", "trans people are going to eat your children", "gay people will run off with your husband". The extreme left on college campuses that turn up and say stupid stuff do not represent the majority of progressives. I cannot think of one person I know, even the ones that that are gay, that think there are 99 genders or 300 pound women that were born physically male should be allow enter womans wrestling tournaments. This narrative is solely being overblown by the right. Like banning Christmas every year. How does what sex someone calls themselves oppress you? If you were to drop a white male into anytime in human history in the majority of the World they would fair substantially better off than any other gender or race, this why historically males are seen to be privileged. A white male goes for any generic job, get a loan, get prison sentence (females would probably fair better there, but then again they commit less crime) in America they are more like to be successful than anyone else, so this White Privilege you talk of still exists today.
People distrust the media because the waters have been so badly muddied. I see you omitted climate change as a threat, which side muddied the water there? The real science deniers have, the same people who did the same for tobacco companies One leader constantly praises other leaders of totalitarian states like no other, I will let you guess who that is and which side of the divide he is on.
Historically men have been privileged...tell that to the millions who die in wars over the centuries...or work in terrible conditions...
Is there another part of this world, that can offer us the same luxurious standard of living we enjoy here, with the same human rights, access to education and stable employment that is devoid of this horrid white male privilege that we can all move to?
People distrust media because media has earned that distrust...0 -
Silentcorner wrote: »Feminism is identity politics, not being pushed by the right.
Racism (affecting only selected races) is identity politics, not being pushed by the right....quotas are benefiting both identity groups in the US.
Feminism isn't pushed by the right because they don't believe in it, they hate the right to choose what a woman does with her own body for example. Hispanics are rapists and criminals. Black people are lazy and need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, can't think where I heard that narrative before...I don't watch fox and I have no idea what reddit is....I do not trust media in any way shape or form, for too long media has fooled me time and time again, I didn't realise I was drinking kool aid...no one ever does!
Oh okay, must put my glass down and wait for my dog to pass me all the information I need to know in the World.I never mentioned immigrants!!! I don't believe all Trump voters are idiots, or Brexit voters for that matter on account of the fact I know very little of the varying nuances that impact public discourse and the political systems, I would guess that the two party systems in both US and Britain are now being exposed for their inability to handle a more polarised political landscape, which is being fueled by a concoction of social media and failing media landscapes all of which allow for echo chambers, which is bit like when you spike Kool Aid with crystal meth!
"a political system that has avoided action on the very issues that threaten those people, these are very real threats to their quality of life in whatever form or other" what threats on their quality of life are you talking about then? There is more than 2 parties in the UK. Echo chambers are a problem on both sides of the divide you are right there.What kind of moron, in this day and age describes themselves as exclusively right or left, it used to be about workers versus big business and liberals verses conservatives, but modern life is a lot more complicated now...apart from a deluded kool aid addict that is!
In America there is no left wing as we know it, there is the right of centre and far right of centre, yet they argue themselves into the ground. In Europe we do have the more classical system generally. A balanced person would hover around the centre. I personally would lean "right wing" on crime and "left wing" on things like social safety nets for example.0 -
FrostyJack wrote: »Feminism isn't pushed by the right because they don't believe in it, they hate the right to choose what a woman does with her own body for example. Hispanics are rapists and criminals. Black people are lazy and need to pull themselves up by their bootstraps, can't think where I heard that narrative before...
Oh okay, must put my glass down and wait for my dog to pass me all the information I need to know in the World.
"a political system that has avoided action on the very issues that threaten those people, these are very real threats to their quality of life in whatever form or other" what threats on their quality of life are you talking about then? There is more than 2 parties in the UK. Echo chambers are a problem on both sides of the divide you are right there.
In America there is no left wing as we know it, there is the right of centre and far right of centre, yet they argue themselves into the ground. In Europe we do have the more classical system generally. A balanced person would hover around the centre. I personally would lean "right wing" on crime and "left wing" on things like social safety nets for example.
Feminism is identity politics full stop...the hint is in the name.
All the answers to an individual's issues lie inside the home, regardless of race or gender....personal responsibility is a burden some have difficulty with.
Access to education is a huge issue for working class men in both the US and Britain and has been for decades and nothing has ever been done about it, leaving these men in competition for jobs that newly arrived immigrants are also competing for, there has never been the political will to tackle literacy rates and educational achievement for these young men, and what will young men do if they legitimately feel left behind...they will lash back at society, what these young men share with the performance of other races is difficult domestic circumstances....the welfare state in the US and Britain has more than played a part in the creation of that young male underclass...something it will continue to live to regret.
There was a left wing, it too has been hijacked by big corporate since Bill Clinton in the 90s, abandoning the unions...allowing for the mass movement of jobs to cheaper locations, hurtling many young men and women, with little third level education into a hard life of menial work in two sometimes three different jobs...or worse, no job at all, for one of the wealthiest states on this planet this is unforgivable in my opinion!
But what do I know...I get my info from my dog!0 -
Silentcorner wrote: »Historically men have been privileged...tell that to the millions who die in wars over the centuries...or work in terrible conditions...
Is there another part of this world, that can offer us the same luxurious standard of living we enjoy here, with the same human rights, access to education and stable employment that is devoid of this horrid white male privilege that we can all move to?
Great in war, the one time where men get the dirty end of the stick, who again generally starts those wars? Yeah women get all the handy jobs cooking, cleaning and child raring, the good old days. Have the dinner ready when the man comes home from a hard days slave labour or get a slap. Paradise for women.
Yeah in other parts of the World, lets say Africa, all those white men oppressed there for centuries, couldn't get a good diamond slave mining job.0 -
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i find people who identify as left and right are idiots0
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Silentcorner wrote: »Feminism is identity politics full stop...the hint is in the name.
All the answers to an individual's issues lie inside the home, regardless of race or gender....personal responsibility is a burden some have difficulty with.
Access to education is a huge issue for working class men in both the US and Britain and has been for decades and nothing has ever been done about it, leaving these men in competition for jobs that newly arrived immigrants are also competing for, there has never been the political will to tackle literacy rates and educational achievement for these young men, and what will young men do if they legitimately feel left behind...they will lash back at society, what these young men share with the performance of other races is difficult domestic circumstances....the welfare state in the US and Britain has more than played a part in the creation of that young male underclass...something it will continue to live to regret.
There was a left wing, it too has been hijacked by big corporate since Bill Clinton in the 90s, abandoning the unions...allowing for the mass movement of jobs to cheaper locations, hurtling many young men and women, with little third level education into a hard life of menial work in two sometimes three different jobs...or worse, no job at all, for one of the wealthiest states on this planet this is unforgivable in my opinion!
But what do I know...I get my info from my dog!
It is great how you completely contradict yourself. If you can get a job because of your race or gender, it is your own personal responsibility, it starts at home. Immigrants are taking your jobs it is Bill Clinton and foreigners fault, nothing got to do with you taking personal responsibility not to lose your job? As to paraphrase Doug Stanhope, if a guy with no shoes and doesn't speak your language and has to do training in pantomime takes your job you are a World class loser.
CEO's take the lions share of the wage, if this was reduced and the proletariat got a bump, there wouldn't be the need for 3 or 4 jobs. If education was free like it should be, this issues would be reduced. Guess which side are opposed to this and call it socialism. Guess who gave a massive tax cut to the top 1% Guess who's family took there businesses from America and moved to China? Give you a hint, not Bill Clinton.0 -
FrostyJack wrote: »Great in war, the one time where men get the dirty end of the stick, who again generally starts those wars? Yeah women get all the handy jobs cooking, cleaning and child raring, the good old days. Have the dinner ready when the man comes home from a hard days slave labour or get a slap. Paradise for women.
Yeah in other parts of the World, lets say Africa, all those white men oppressed there for centuries, couldn't get a good diamond slave mining job.
The arrival at the point in history where we find ourselves in today has been long and slow and violent sometimes...affecting both genders differently...participating in oppression olympics is serving no purpose at all!!!
Slogging on a dangerous building site in the 80s was no cake walk...neither was rearing 5 kids with little or no disposable income...that was only a few short years ago!0 -
FrostyJack wrote: »It is great how you completely contradict yourself. If you can get a job because of your race or gender, it is your own personal responsibility, it starts at home. Immigrants are taking your jobs it is Bill Clinton and foreigners fault, nothing got to do with you taking personal responsibility not to lose your job? As to paraphrase Doug Stanhope, if a guy with no shoes and doesn't speak your language and has to do training in pantomime takes your job you are a World class loser.
CEO's take the lions share of the wage, if this was reduced and the proletariat got a bump, there wouldn't be the need for 3 or 4 jobs. If education was free like it should be, this issues would be reduced. Guess which side are opposed to this and call it socialism. Guess who gave a massive tax cut to the top 1% Guess who's family took there businesses from America and moved to China? Give you a hint, not Bill Clinton.
Ah go away out of it...you are all over the place...the reason people become politically disenfranchised is because they feel abandoned by the politicians they elect to represent them...for a variety of reasons...whatever your race or gender...the Democrats are as bad as the Republicans in the US, which is how a man like Trump got elected despite the best efforts of the media.
What I cannot stand is when people think of disenfranchised voters as some kind of subhuman xenophobes...it is breathtakingly arrogant and a product of a complete lack of self awareness (think of Hillary Clintons "Deplorables" speech)...democracy is hard hard work, but it is the only defence to a totalitarian state! The democratic institutions in the developed world are facing two threats, populism (a la the far rights, the feminists, the diversity mafia) and the consequences of globalisation and its impact on the political process.
It will be interesting to see what happens when you consider what is coming down the track in terms of Automation, AI, remember, Americans hold over 300,000,000 legally held guns!!!!...and yet they are getting bogged down in gender and diversity quotas...and intellectual crisis will be the least of our worries!0 -
Trump is a consequence of the same strategy fascists have always employed - exploit anger over economic conditions, divide and conquer, and blame the easy target who is not to blame at all - immigrants and minorities.Silentcorner wrote: »All very eloquent but with no real meat on the bone...
Trump and Brexit are a consequence of disenfranchised voters, disenfranchised by a political system that has avoided action on the very issues that threaten those people, these are very real threats to their quality of life in whatever form or other.
Brexit is a consequence of something similar.
Both exploited an avalanche of lies and propaganda, again a well worn fascist tactic.
How many lies is it Trump has come out with since he's been president? 9,000 or something, isn't it?
Here's a list of fake stories used to stoke up dissenchantment with the EU.
https://tompride.wordpress.com/2017/12/05/see-20-years-of-fake-news-about-eu-by-uk-press-vote-for-your-favourite-here/?fbclid=IwAR1icKilAAyH2NsbIZcRu3OjNKpBEN6akRLjlACfWmGrc8CsVJ2l3ycVUd4
EC regulations to ban playgrounds – Daily Express
Rolling acres outlawed by Brussels – The Telegraph
EU to scrap British exams – Sunday Express
Obscure EU law halting the sale of English oak seeds – Mail on Sunday
EU may try to ban sweet and toy ads – The Times
EU to tell British farmers what they can grow – Daily Mail
EU ‘Bans Boozing’ – Daily Star
Light ale to be forced to change its name by Eurocrats – Daily Mail
EU fanatics to be forced to sing dire anthem about EU ‘Motherland’ – The Sun
British apple trees facing chop by EU – The Times
EC plan to ban noisy toys – Sunday People
EU to ban bagpipes and trapeze artists – The Sun
Children to be banned from blowing up balloons, under EU safety rules – Daily Telegraph
Straight cucumbers – The Sun
Curved bananas banned by Brussels bureaucrats – The Sun, Daily Mail, Daily Express
Brussels bans barmaids from showing cleavage – The Sun, Daily Telegraph
Rumpole’s wig to scrapped by EU – Mail on Sunday
Church bells silenced by fear of EU law – Daily Telegraph
Motorists to be charged to drive in city centres under EU plans – Daily Telegraph
EU to stop binge drinking by slapping extra tax on our booze – The Sun
Brandy butter to be renamed ‘brandy spreadable fat’ – The European
British loaf of bread under threat from EU – Daily Mail
Truckers face EU ban on fry-ups – The Sun
EU to ban Union Flag from British meat packs – Daily Express
EU seeks to outlaw 60 dog breeds – Europa News Agency
Double-decker buses to be banned – Daily Telegraph
EU bans eating competition cakes – Timesonline
Now EU officials want control of your CANDLES – Daily Express
21-gun salutes are just too loud, Brussels tells the Royal Artillery – Mail on Sunday
Brussels threatens charity shops and car boot sales – Daily Mail
Plot to axe British number plates for standardised EU design – Daily Express
Women to be asked intimate details about sex lives in planned EU census – Daily Express
British cheese faces extinction under EU rules – PA News
EU meddlers ban kids on milk rounds – The Sun, The Telegraph
British chocolate to be renamed ‘vegelate’ under EU rules – Daily Mail
EU to ban church bells – Daily Telegraph
British film producers warn of new EU threat to industry – The Independent
Kilts to be branded womenswear by EU – Daily Record
EU to ban double decker buses – Daily Mail
Cod to be renamed ‘Gadus’ thanks to EU – Daily Mail
Brussels to restrict drinking habits of Britain’s coffee lovers – Daily Express
EU responsible for your hay fever – Daily Mail, The Times
Condom dimensions to be harmonised – Independent on Sunday
EU wants to BAN your photos of the London Eye – Daily Express
Corgis to be banned by EU – Daily Mail
EU forcing cows to wear nappies – Daily Mail
Eurocrats to ban crayons and colouring pencils – The Sun
Smoky bacon crisps face EU ban – Sunday Times
EU outlaws teeth whitening products – Daily Mail
Domain names – ‘.uk’ to be replaced by ‘.eu’ – Daily Mail
Brussels to ban HGV drivers from wearing glasses – The Times
New eggs cannot be called eggs – Daily Mail
EU to ban selling eggs by the dozen – Daily Mail
UK to be forced to adopt continental two pin plug – Daily Star, Daily Mail
EU targets traditional Sunday roast – Sun on Sunday
English Channel to be re-named ‘Anglo-French Pond’ – Daily Mail
Brussels to force EU flag on England shirts – Daily Mail
EU orders farmers to give toys to pigs – The Times
Firemen’s poles outlawed by EU – Daily Mail
Euro ban on food waste means swans cannot be fed – The Observer
Noise regulations to force football goers to wear earplugs – The Sun
Traditional Irish funeral under threat from EU – Daily Telegraph, The Times
EU to ban high-heel shoes for hairdressers – Daily Express
Commission to force fishermen to wear hairnets – Daily Telegraph
Brussels to ban herbal cures – Daily Express
Bureaucrats declare Britain is “not an island”– the Guardian
EU bid to ban life sentences for murderers – Daily Express
New EU map makes Kent part of France – Sunday Telegraph
EU tells Welsh how to grow their leeks – The Times
EU to ban lollipop ladies’ sticks – News of the World
EU plot to rename Trafalgar Square & Waterloo station – Daily Express
UK milk ‘pinta’ threatened by Brussels – The Sun
EU bans ‘mince’ pies – Daily Mail
Eurocrats say Santa must be a woman – The Sun
Now EU crackpots demand gypsy MPs – Daily Express
Brussels to outlaw mushy peas – The Sun, Daily Mail, Telegraph, Times
Brussels says shellfish must be given rest breaks on journeys – The Times
Pets must be pressure cooked after death – Sunday Telegraph
EU puts speed limit on children’s roundabouts – Daily Express
2-for-1 bargains to be scrapped by EU – Daily Mirror
EU madness: chat up bar girl and pub will be fined – Daily Star
Queen to be forced to get her own tea by EU – The Sun
EU tells women to hand in worn-out sex toys – The Sun
British rhubarb to be straight – The Sun
EU to ban rocking horses – The Sun
Scotch whisky rebranded a dangerous chemical by EU – Daily Telegraph
Brussels ban on pints of shandy – The Times
“High up” signs to be put on mountains – BBC
Euronotes cause impotence – Daily Mail
EU to ban under 16-year-olds from using Facebook – Daily Mail
Strawberries must be oval – The Sun
EU orders swings to be pulled down – Daily Express
Tea bags banned from being recycled – BBC
British lav to be replaced with Euro-loo – The Sun
Unwanted Valentine’s cards to be defined as sexual harrasment – Daily Telegraph
Bosses to be told what colour carpets to buy by EU – Daily Star
EU says British yoghurt to be renamed ‘Fermented Milk Pudding’ – Sunday Mirror
EU to ban zipper trousers – The SunSilentcorner wrote: »
This country has a huge percentage of disenfranchised voters also, thankfully we have had no chancers trying to speak to the worst element of those voters, despite the hilarious overreaction to the Peter Casey vote.
Peter Casey also employed the exact same strategy beloved of fascists – “other” a vulnerable minority group, exploit latent bigotry, and whip up hatred against that “other” group.
We have chancers aplenty.
Nobody should be under any illusion that Ireland is immune to far right actors.
Gemma O'Doherty, Renua in its post-Lucinda Creighton incarnation, Leo Sherlock's “theliberal.ie”, the “National Party”, Identity Ireland, the Irish Yellow Vests, the Freeman on the Land crazies, the Irexiteer astro-turfers, the IONA “Institute”, all are promoting a quasi-theocratic, backward right-wing ideology, some more right-wing than others, but all crazy and all prepared to employ lies and propaganda to get what they want.
Are you talking about anti-racism?Silentcorner wrote: »
Populism is a huge threat to public discourse, I'd consider feminism and racism amongst popular political movements, along with all identity politics, I would also consider the corruption of the political systems in the developed world by huge corporations as an even bigger issue.
How are feminism and anti-racism “populist”?
There are obvious reasons why feminism and anti-racism exist. If you need those explained to you you have a problem.
What's the reason for the existence of white identity politics? There is none.
I'm sorry? Trump, Putin, Erdogan, Salvini, Orban, the Polish government, Bolsonaro, Modi, Duterte, Farage, Le Pen, Wilders, AfD – can you tell me are any of these people in/are political parties, or are leading governments?Silentcorner wrote: »The right wing crypo facists are not members of political parties nor do they have any traction on mainstream media....I don't understand this fear of the far right...only a true moron believes themselves to be left or right on each and every, life is way more nuanced than that!
This thread isn't about any particular country. You've just fired out the most broad brush, generalised statement possible there – you've just repeated Trump's propaganda. Sure some of the US media is in the gutter – mainly right wing outlets like Fox, Sinclair and the Wall Street Journal.Silentcorner wrote: »
This thread is about the US, where its mainstream media are in the gutter...
So, to diagnose an intellectual crisis, you're telling us to read nothing, and look at nothing, yes? That doesn't seem like a very clever way to go about diagnosing an intellectual crisis to me.Silentcorner wrote: »
if you believe what you read or see you are in no position to be diagnosing intellectual crises...
Study after study show Trump's popularity is motivated by racism. If he romps home in 2020 it will likely be as a result of anti-democracy measures and vote rigging, which nobody should put past him. That's how fascists operate – they make sure they win.Silentcorner wrote: »
Trump will romp home in 2020 not because he is a racist bigot but because the Democrats have embraced identity politics and the mainstream media has about as much credibility as a 1980s Italian football referee with a gambling problem.
I love your complete dismissal of identity politics – minority and marginalised identity politics I presume – while completely neglecting to mention Trump's entire appeal is white identity politics. Of course the label “identity politics” is only applied to minorities and the marginalised – funny that, and by funny, I mean not funny at all.
We live in an internet world. To a large extent this is unavoidable. The problem arises where data is used for malign means. The micro-targetting of people with lies and propaganda based on social media data by the Trump and Brexit campaigns is such a malign use of people's data. I didn't hear any Trump and Brexit supporters moaning about this. They cheerlead it.Silentcorner wrote: »We are at a point in history where massive american corporations have access to more personal data than any entity in the history of humankind.
We don't yet know the full effects of these things.Silentcorner wrote: »
We are at a point in history where the workforce is about to be exposed to the greatest threat to the ordinary worker in centuries, threatening every facet of our economies, financial systems and political entities in the form of Automation, AI and Deep Learning.
But here's the thing – who is going to protect workers against these things? It will be trade unions and those in politics who push for regulation, not those anarcho-capitalists who push for the destruction off trade unions, decent labour laws and regulation.
I love the way you paint the media as one singular, uniform entity. There are excellent media outlets and there are terrible media outlets. Education and critical thinking are key to enabling peple to decipher which is which. Coincidentally, or should I say not coincidentally at all, these are the exact things the Republican party want to destroy in the US.Silentcorner wrote: »We are at a point where American trust in media is in the toilet, which indicates to me that those who mistrust media have a greater intellectual capacity than those that who still trust mainstream media.Silentcorner wrote: »
We are at apoint in history where the US colleges, have abandoned science and intellectual rigour in favour of gender populism.
Utter nonsense. The current US government has certainly abandoned science any form of intellectual rigour, however, and that is a growing problem with right-wing politics worldwide - the embrace of bull**** over reason.
What on earth is “gender populism”? Gender issues, I presume you're talking about things like transgenderism and relevant laws, are a minority issue. Does that that mean they are not important? Why do right-wing populists have such a problem with transgender people and recognising their rights? It's because they are an easy target because they are so few in number. The paranoid obsession in right-wing “populist” politics with denying transgender people their rights is utterly bizarre, neurotic and hateful.
What nonsense. Affirmative action programmes are an overwhelmingly good idea. They broaden minority and marginalised access to education, access to jobs, access to politics. Broad representation of minorites and marginalised communities makes for a healthier, more inclusive environment, whatever and wherever it is.Silentcorner wrote: »We are at a point in history where quotas of all types are being imposed in democracies across the West, which is the first act of a totalitarian state, quotas are manifestly undemocratic.
Anybody who doesn't think white male privilege is a real thing is almost certianly benefitting from it.Silentcorner wrote: »If you are not uncomfortable about the state of public discourse, which is affecting academia, art and culture, and our politics and economies, then are you really seeing what is happening or are you buying into the toxic group think that suggests White Male Privilege is a real entity and must be attacked, in academia, in the arts and culture, in our political systems and economies...
Public discourse is in the gutter largely because a full scale regressive right-wing disinformation war is taking place – it's taking place all over the world, and yes, Russia is behind a significant amount of it, though even you took Russia out of the equaltion, it's still going on everywhere. Our recent referendums in 2015 and 2018, and the recent presidential election are good examples of how Ireland has been targeted. Thankfullly Ireland remains an outlier and people here are less easily conned than elsewhere. Nobody should assume that will always remain the case, however, which is why education and critical thinking are of paramount importance in guarding against far right lies and propaganda.Silentcorner wrote: »We have replaced a group of humourless science deniers in the Church, with a group of even more venomous science deniers who believe that gender is assigned at birth or that an abortion is not the ending of a life.
Ireland was as informed as a populace could possibly be during the 8th Amendment referendum. The reasons for the change were set out clearly and it was overwhelmingly passed because those that voted for it knew exactly what they were voting for and what the sort of treatment of women that they were voting to prevent.
Again, that weird, creepy obsession that reactionary right-wingers have with transgenderism comes out.
Gender dysphoria is a very real thing, by the way.0 -
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hill16bhoy wrote: »Trump is a consequence of the same strategy fascists have always employed - exploit anger over economic conditions, divide and conquer, and blame the easy target who is not to blame at all - immigrants and minorities.
Brexit is a consequence of something similar.
Both exploited an avalanche of lies and propaganda, again a well worn fascist tactic.
How many lies is it Trump has come out with since he's been president? 9,000 or something, isn't it?
Here's a list of fake stories used to stoke up dissenchantment with the EU.
https://tompride.wordpress.com/2017/12/05/see-20-years-of-fake-news-about-eu-by-uk-press-vote-for-your-favourite-here/?fbclid=IwAR1icKilAAyH2NsbIZcRu3OjNKpBEN6akRLjlACfWmGrc8CsVJ2l3ycVUd4
EC regulations to ban playgrounds – Daily Express
Rolling acres outlawed by Brussels – The Telegraph
EU to scrap British exams – Sunday Express
Obscure EU law halting the sale of English oak seeds – Mail on Sunday
EU may try to ban sweet and toy ads – The Times
EU to tell British farmers what they can grow – Daily Mail
EU ‘Bans Boozing’ – Daily Star
Light ale to be forced to change its name by Eurocrats – Daily Mail
EU fanatics to be forced to sing dire anthem about EU ‘Motherland’ – The Sun
British apple trees facing chop by EU – The Times
EC plan to ban noisy toys – Sunday People
EU to ban bagpipes and trapeze artists – The Sun
Children to be banned from blowing up balloons, under EU safety rules – Daily Telegraph
Straight cucumbers – The Sun
Curved bananas banned by Brussels bureaucrats – The Sun, Daily Mail, Daily Express
Brussels bans barmaids from showing cleavage – The Sun, Daily Telegraph
Rumpole’s wig to scrapped by EU – Mail on Sunday
Church bells silenced by fear of EU law – Daily Telegraph
Motorists to be charged to drive in city centres under EU plans – Daily Telegraph
EU to stop binge drinking by slapping extra tax on our booze – The Sun
Brandy butter to be renamed ‘brandy spreadable fat’ – The European
British loaf of bread under threat from EU – Daily Mail
Truckers face EU ban on fry-ups – The Sun
EU to ban Union Flag from British meat packs – Daily Express
EU seeks to outlaw 60 dog breeds – Europa News Agency
Double-decker buses to be banned – Daily Telegraph
EU bans eating competition cakes – Timesonline
Now EU officials want control of your CANDLES – Daily Express
21-gun salutes are just too loud, Brussels tells the Royal Artillery – Mail on Sunday
Brussels threatens charity shops and car boot sales – Daily Mail
Plot to axe British number plates for standardised EU design – Daily Express
Women to be asked intimate details about sex lives in planned EU census – Daily Express
British cheese faces extinction under EU rules – PA News
EU meddlers ban kids on milk rounds – The Sun, The Telegraph
British chocolate to be renamed ‘vegelate’ under EU rules – Daily Mail
EU to ban church bells – Daily Telegraph
British film producers warn of new EU threat to industry – The Independent
Kilts to be branded womenswear by EU – Daily Record
EU to ban double decker buses – Daily Mail
Cod to be renamed ‘Gadus’ thanks to EU – Daily Mail
Brussels to restrict drinking habits of Britain’s coffee lovers – Daily Express
EU responsible for your hay fever – Daily Mail, The Times
Condom dimensions to be harmonised – Independent on Sunday
EU wants to BAN your photos of the London Eye – Daily Express
Corgis to be banned by EU – Daily Mail
EU forcing cows to wear nappies – Daily Mail
Eurocrats to ban crayons and colouring pencils – The Sun
Smoky bacon crisps face EU ban – Sunday Times
EU outlaws teeth whitening products – Daily Mail
Domain names – ‘.uk’ to be replaced by ‘.eu’ – Daily Mail
Brussels to ban HGV drivers from wearing glasses – The Times
New eggs cannot be called eggs – Daily Mail
EU to ban selling eggs by the dozen – Daily Mail
UK to be forced to adopt continental two pin plug – Daily Star, Daily Mail
EU targets traditional Sunday roast – Sun on Sunday
English Channel to be re-named ‘Anglo-French Pond’ – Daily Mail
Brussels to force EU flag on England shirts – Daily Mail
EU orders farmers to give toys to pigs – The Times
Firemen’s poles outlawed by EU – Daily Mail
Euro ban on food waste means swans cannot be fed – The Observer
Noise regulations to force football goers to wear earplugs – The Sun
Traditional Irish funeral under threat from EU – Daily Telegraph, The Times
EU to ban high-heel shoes for hairdressers – Daily Express
Commission to force fishermen to wear hairnets – Daily Telegraph
Brussels to ban herbal cures – Daily Express
Bureaucrats declare Britain is “not an island”– the Guardian
EU bid to ban life sentences for murderers – Daily Express
New EU map makes Kent part of France – Sunday Telegraph
EU tells Welsh how to grow their leeks – The Times
EU to ban lollipop ladies’ sticks – News of the World
EU plot to rename Trafalgar Square & Waterloo station – Daily Express
UK milk ‘pinta’ threatened by Brussels – The Sun
EU bans ‘mince’ pies – Daily Mail
Eurocrats say Santa must be a woman – The Sun
Now EU crackpots demand gypsy MPs – Daily Express
Brussels to outlaw mushy peas – The Sun, Daily Mail, Telegraph, Times
Brussels says shellfish must be given rest breaks on journeys – The Times
Pets must be pressure cooked after death – Sunday Telegraph
EU puts speed limit on children’s roundabouts – Daily Express
2-for-1 bargains to be scrapped by EU – Daily Mirror
EU madness: chat up bar girl and pub will be fined – Daily Star
Queen to be forced to get her own tea by EU – The Sun
EU tells women to hand in worn-out sex toys – The Sun
British rhubarb to be straight – The Sun
EU to ban rocking horses – The Sun
Scotch whisky rebranded a dangerous chemical by EU – Daily Telegraph
Brussels ban on pints of shandy – The Times
“High up” signs to be put on mountains – BBC
Euronotes cause impotence – Daily Mail
EU to ban under 16-year-olds from using Facebook – Daily Mail
Strawberries must be oval – The Sun
EU orders swings to be pulled down – Daily Express
Tea bags banned from being recycled – BBC
British lav to be replaced with Euro-loo – The Sun
Unwanted Valentine’s cards to be defined as sexual harrasment – Daily Telegraph
Bosses to be told what colour carpets to buy by EU – Daily Star
EU says British yoghurt to be renamed ‘Fermented Milk Pudding’ – Sunday Mirror
EU to ban zipper trousers – The Sun
Peter Casey also employed the exact same strategy beloved of fascists – “other” a vulnerable minority group, exploit latent bigotry, and whip up hatred against that “other” group.
We have chancers aplenty.
Nobody should be under any illusion that Ireland is immune to far right actors.
Gemma O'Doherty, Renua in its post-Lucinda Creighton incarnation, Leo Sherlock's “theliberal.ie”, the “National Party”, Identity Ireland, the Irish Yellow Vests, the Freeman on the Land crazies, the Irexiteer astro-turfers, the IONA “Institute”, all are promoting a quasi-theocratic, backward right-wing ideology, some more right-wing than others, but all crazy and all prepared to employ lies and propaganda to get what they want.
Are you talking about anti-racism?
How are feminism and anti-racism “populist”?
There are obvious reasons why feminism and anti-racism exist. If you need those explained to you you have a problem.
What's the reason for the existence of white identity politics? There is none.
I'm sorry? Trump, Putin, Erdogan, Salvini, Orban, the Polish government, Bolsonaro, Modi, Duterte, Farage, Le Pen, Wilders, AfD – can you tell me are any of these people in/are political parties, or are leading governments?
This thread isn't about any particular country. You've just fired out the most broad brush, generalised statement possible there – you've just repeated Trump's propaganda. Sure some of the US media is in the gutter – mainly right wing outlets like Fox, Sinclair and the Wall Street Journal.
So, to diagnose an intellectual crisis, you're telling us to read nothing, and look at nothing, yes? That doesn't seem like a very clever way to go about diagnosing an intellectual crisis to me.
Study after study show Trump's popularity is motivated by racism. If he romps home in 2020 it will likely be as a result of anti-democracy measures and vote rigging, which nobody should put past him. That's how fascists operate – they make sure they win.
I love your complete dismissal of identity politics – minority and marginalised identity politics I presume – while completely neglecting to mention Trump's entire appeal is white identity politics. Of course the label “identity politics” is only applied to minorities and the marginalised – funny that, and by funny, I mean not funny at all.
We live in an internet world. To a large extent this is unavoidable. The problem arises where data is used for malign means. The micro-targetting of people with lies and propaganda based on social media data by the Trump and Brexit campaigns is such a malign use of people's data. I didn't hear any Trump and Brexit supporters moaning about this. They cheerlead it.
We don't yet know the full effects of these things.
But here's the thing – who is going to protect workers against these things? It will be trade unions and those in politics who push for regulation, not those anarcho-capitalists who push for the destruction off trade unions, decent labour laws and regulation.
I love the way you paint the media as one singular, uniform entity. There are excellent media outlets and there are terrible media outlets. Education and critical thinking are key to enabling peple to decipher which is which. Coincidentally, or should I say not coincidentally at all, these are the exact things the Republican party want to destroy in the US.
Utter nonsense. The current US government has certainly abandoned science any form of intellectual rigour, however, and that is a growing problem with right-wing politics worldwide - the embrace of bull**** over reason.
What on earth is “gender populism”? Gender issues, I presume you're talking about things like transgenderism and relevant laws, are a minority issue. Does that that mean they are not important? Why do right-wing populists have such a problem with transgender people and recognising their rights? It's because they are an easy target because they are so few in number. The paranoid obsession in right-wing “populist” politics with denying transgender people their rights is utterly bizarre, neurotic and hateful.
What nonsense. Affirmative action programmes are an overwhelmingly good idea. They broaden minority and marginalised access to education, access to jobs, access to politics. Broad representation of minorites and marginalised communities makes for a healthier, more inclusive environment, whatever and wherever it is.
Anybody who doesn't think white male privilege is a real thing is almost certianly benefitting from it.
Public discourse is in the gutter largely because a full scale regressive right-wing disinformation war is taking place – it's taking place all over the world, and yes, Russia is behind a significant amount of it, though even you took Russia out of the equaltion, it's still going on everywhere. Our recent referendums in 2015 and 2018, and the recent presidential election are good examples of how Ireland has been targeted. Thankfullly Ireland remains an outlier and people here are less easily conned than elsewhere. Nobody should assume that will always remain the case, however, which is why education and critical thinking are of paramount importance in guarding against far right lies and propaganda.
Ireland was as informed as a populace could possibly be during the 8th Amendment referendum. The reasons for the change were set out clearly and it was overwhelmingly passed because those that voted for it knew exactly what they were voting for and what the sort of treatment of women that they were voting to prevent.
Again, that weird, creepy obsession that reactionary right-wingers have with transgenderism comes out.
Gender dysphoria is a very real thing, by the way.
Only Peter Casey describes himself as a liberal.
Jaysis...You love the ould emotive languange don't you....its all facists and crypo capitalists, patriarchy blah blah white male privilege blah bla
Feminism is populism pure and simple, the Gender Pay Gap, Domestic Violence, Workplace harassment have all been completely misrepresented by feminists and mainstream media repeatedly...just because you are gorging on that kool aid don't make it so....this is disinformation that is currently affecting government policy and corporate culture.
Please don't play the old "if you don't agree you are part of the problem" nonsense...you'll accuse me of mansplaining next or some other infantile term like that...
I never said dont read anything, I said do not trust media, you can take what you define as fact and form an opinion as best you can on that basis....and if you never change your mind about anything, be it abortion, or transgenderism or diversity....you are a moron! I don't believe gender is "assigned" at birth, or that it is a social construct because that is consistent with what our scientific understanding is, that does not mean I have no empathy with people who are experiencing gender related issues...I just will not abandon science, no matter what kind of hateful language is thrown at me by the likes of you!
I meant to say that the far right movements are largely fringe and not part of mainstream political parties, my bad....unlike the feminists and diversity mafia!
The problem these days is that when we were young our echo chambers were the dinner table and the pub...these days, it seems, clearly in your instance, everyone is a radical...it is deeply unstable to say the least.
The Tech companies in California are the biggest threat to democracy and future work place opportunities, these are organisations that are way ahead of the legislators and spend more money on lobbying than any other sector...the unions are not going to be able to protect workers this time around, I fear...
I love your hatred for your perceived "right wing crypto facist, capitalist anarchist patriarchal nutters with white male privilege"...and yet you are completely embracing the exact same populism in feminism, diversity, gender diluting nonsense....you're a ticket!!!
You remind me of the nutters who believe that their God is better than the other guys God....0 -
Silentcorner wrote: »Ah go away out of it...you are all over the place...the reason people become politically disenfranchised is because they feel abandoned by the politicians they elect to represent them...for a variety of reasons...whatever your race or gender...the Democrats are as bad as the Republicans in the US, which is how a man like Trump got elected despite the best efforts of the media.
The Media? Fox News is the largest News Network in the US in terms of viewers (the demographic is mainly old white people though who vote) after he was nominated they pushed him all the way, as did Brietbart etc and a few of the Russians. So to say all the media was against him is very disingenuous. The traditional media did slant against him for obvious reasons, as we can see the disaster to the World he has been.What I cannot stand is when people think of disenfranchised voters as some kind of subhuman xenophobes...it is breathtakingly arrogant and a product of a complete lack of self awareness (think of Hillary Clintons "Deplorables" speech)...democracy is hard hard work, but it is the only defence to a totalitarian state! The democratic institutions in the developed world are facing two threats, populism (a la the far rights, the feminists, the diversity mafia) and the consequences of globalisation and its impact on the political process.
She called them Deplorables as he was hiring people like Bannon who's Brietbart had headlines like "Would You Rather Your Child Had Feminism or Cancer?". Seems to like a website you might subscribe to with your hatred of Feminism for what ever reason. He was condoning killing families, using torture and racist dog whistles and they all cheered. She was wrong with the half part.It will be interesting to see what happens when you consider what is coming down the track in terms of Automation, AI, remember, Americans hold over 300,000,000 legally held guns!!!!...and yet they are getting bogged down in gender and diversity quotas...and intellectual crisis will be the least of our worries!
I can't see people running and gunning on the streets because a woman got promoted over a man or an Asian over a white person, but I suppose you can have your fantasies. I have never once cried myself to sleep over someone of a different gender wanting equal rights or use a different bathroom or thought the rise of feminism will affect me in anyway shape or form, because I see them all as equals, so I do not fear them. There are real things to fear like climate change and nuclear weapon proliferation.0 -
FrostyJack wrote: »The Media? Fox News is the largest News Network in the US in terms of viewers (the demographic is mainly old white people though who vote) after he was nominated they pushed him all the way, as did Brietbart etc and a few of the Russians. So to say all the media was against him is very disingenuous. The traditional media did slant against him for obvious reasons, as we can see the disaster to the World he has been.
The leaked DNC document literally shows the plan for the media's "left" to cover a candidate like Trump as much as possible so they'd win the Republican primary, and make it easier for the Democrat nominee to win the election.
That is what happened. He was all over CNN etc. from very very early on in the primaries. They couldn't put the cat back in the bag and Hillary made far too many mistakes.
Silentcorner is right. If one is arsed informing themselves of a plot like this, then one will lose trust in the media.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »The leaked DNC document literally shows the plan for the media's "left" to cover a candidate like Trump as much as possible so they'd win the Republican primary, and make it easier for the Democrat nominee to win the election.
Where did it say CNN agreed to show Trump constantly so he would win the primary? Legitimately curious. Was it leaked how the Dems influenced RTE, BBC, RT etc to cover him too, because they must be super powerful to get them to cover it too and trick Fox to cover him as well. How did they ever lose the election being so powerful.That is what happened. He was all over CNN etc. from very very early on in the primaries. They couldn't put the cat back in the bag and Hillary made far too many mistakes.
I guess the Clinton team didn't know the Russians were helping Trump at the time so they didn't know this "plan" would backfire.Silentcorner is right. If one is arsed informing themselves of a plot like this, then one will lose trust in the media.
Fortunately he is not right, he is just shooting out a blanket statement because something he read doesn't agree with his World view. Probably thinks because 2 FBI agents having an affair texting they want to bring down Trump means the whole FBI is corrupt.0 -
https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/fileid/1120/251&ved=2ahUKEwjl5NiQ_ajhAhVaPnAKHdx7CJMQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3yIObAAgdHWGGV4yFOYGCA
I don't have proof that they told CNN directly, but with the feeding of debate questions, I am happy to assume that their plan was followed.0 -
Deleted User wrote: »https://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&rct=j&url=https://wikileaks.org/podesta-emails/fileid/1120/251&ved=2ahUKEwjl5NiQ_ajhAhVaPnAKHdx7CJMQFjAAegQIARAB&usg=AOvVaw3yIObAAgdHWGGV4yFOYGCA
I don't have proof that they told CNN directly, but with the feeding of debate questions, I am happy to assume that their plan was followed.
You are assuming a lot by that document, I thought it was sent to the media, it is an internal memo of the Clinton campaign. No where does it say "CNN please keep show Trump ranting on about Mexicans being rapists". It is saying promote these figures, I presume when talking to the press or when on the press. It is a big leap to say CNN, MSNBC kept giving Trump air time at the beck and call of the Dems, especially when every network around the World was. Did they get the journal.ie on board too? It was a strategy to get her elected, I am sure there were plenty of other memos with thing similar. I also bet the GOP had similar memos, but they were not released by Trumps allies funnily enough.0 -
FrostyJack wrote: »You are assuming a lot by that document, I thought it was sent to the media, it is an internal memo of the Clinton campaign. No where does it say "CNN please keep show Trump ranting on about Mexicans being rapists". It is saying promote these figures, I presume when talking to the press or when on the press. It is a big leap to say CNN, MSNBC kept giving Trump air time at the beck and call of the Dems, especially when every network around the World was. Did they get the journal.ie on board too? It was a strategy to get her elected, I am sure there were plenty of other memos with thing similar. I also bet the GOP had similar memos, but they were not released by Trumps allies funnily enough.
We're on different wave-lengths I guess. Good luck.0 -
I found this jpeg on facebook or boards a while back (I suppose it has relevance to this tread) along with a downloadable computer model (which I didn't download) that purported to show the gradual (logically necessary) atrophy of capitalist societies based upon graduated increases / decreases in certain variables explicit in capitalist (especially anarcho-capitalist) structures. apart from foretelling of all our (that is, the majority of our) inevitable degeneration into slave thralls and the whittling down of our liberties, this model (and yes, it is only a model and hope springs eternal) suggests that capital is doomed to consume itself through unchecked resource consumption. could getting rid of state rivaling wealth be the lesser of two evils? I don't know, I'm just a girl.0
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istooptoconcur wrote: »I found this jpeg on facebook or boards a while back (I suppose it has relevance to this tread) along with a downloadable computer model (which I didn't download) that purported to show the gradual (logically necessary) atrophy of capitalist societies based upon graduated increases / decreases in certain variables explicit in capitalist (especially anarcho-capitalist) structures. apart from foretelling of all our (that is, the majority of our) inevitable degeneration into slave thralls and the whittling down of our liberties, this model (and yes, it is only a model and hope springs eternal) suggests that capital is doomed to consume itself through unchecked resource consumption. could getting rid of state rivaling wealth be the lesser of two evils? I don't know, I'm just a girl.
The "Escathon"? Macrocosmic quantities? "High felt shame"? "Aping upperclass behaviours"? "origionating"?
Not sure if these are spelling errors or made-up words0 -
Silentcorner wrote: »We are at a point in history where the workforce is about to be exposed to the greatest threat to the ordinary worker in centuries, threatening every facet of our economies, financial systems and political entities in the form of Automation, AI and Deep Learning.
Relax.
We have never had as much automation as now.
Yet employment is strong and rising in many countries.
Unemployment has fallen to under 5% in many countries.
If you are a flexible, adaptable worker, there is nothing to fear.0 -
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The "Escathon"? Macrocosmic quantities? "High felt shame"? "Aping upperclass behaviours"? "origionating"?
Not sure if these are spelling errors or made-up words
Like I said not my jpeg, I laughed when you posted this. I'm half convinced though, despite the weird spelling you pointed out. I googled 'escathon'; nothing came up.0
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