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Is Totalitarianism on the rise on The Left?
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There's two problems with your point.
One is that it doesn't address whether or not the right is a stronger example of identity politics, and the other is that you haven't really addressed identity politics with your examples.Sorry, but no. It's reality, and a pew research report from 2017 supports it. The "left" have gone hell bent on identity politics over the eight years Pres Obama got into office. You can type long spiels blaming others but it's meaningless when you look at the actual data. Republican polling hasn't shifted much at all. There's a big shift with distrust in media and that's it really.
This is wrong in the sense that the complete opposite is true.
Republican approval for actions depends entirely on who is doing the action - eg, bombing Syria is approved of when Trump does it but not when Obama did, health care policies invented by Republicans are rejected when they're presented by Democrats, budget deficits and debt ceilings have panic alarms blaring when Democrats are in office and elicit a shrug of the shoulders under Trump.
You have supposedly ardent constitutionalists all of a sudden falling quiet when Trump is in breach of the emoluments clause of the constitution, and the party of law and order is suddenly terribly uninterested when you have a president who's engaging in self-dealing, nepotism, the same and worse breaches of communications security than Hillary Clinton was pilloried for, ****ing whores and porn stars while his wife is pregnant, and on, and on, and on...
On the other hand, approval for actions by democrats stays relatively stable regardless of who's in charge. Rather than depending on the identity of the one espousing the policy, they have a far stronger tendency to take policy on its own merits. There's still some tribalism, but the differences are night and day.
I recall a specific data set on this matter comparing like for like policies under Trump and Obama, and the data remains the same for the action or policy for Democrats, and shifts massively for Republicans, because they are entirely concerned with conforming with their in-group, and not at all with what is actually happening.
(I would appreciate if anyone could unearth that data, or something similar, because my googling has been fruitless).
At any rate, going back to Obama's term is a bit silly when IdPol has been central to right wing thought since the birth of fascism. Fascism is identity politics writ large and we're seeing a re-emergence of that kind of thought from the alt-right and far right today.Before Obama got into office 28% of Democrats felt the main reason black people can't get ahead is because of discrimination, that number over those 8 years rose to 64% which is a 36 point jump, that is monumental.
In 2009 48% of Democrats said immigrants as a whole strengthen the country because of hard work and talent. That number at the end of 2016 was 84%. That's a 40 point jump.
This has little if anything to do with identity politics. I don't know about the first point, but the 2nd is literrally what the reality is, so I'm not sure what that's supposed to prove.
The understanding of climate change, acceptance of the rights of homosexuals, a reduction in the acceptance of overt racism and on and on are just shifts in public opinion, as are your examples.
If you want to make the case that the left is obsessed with identity politics, then you have to make a case that the above has anything to do with identity politics, and you have not.
It's not the right wing pushing that there's 50 different genders and men should be allowed compete in Women's sport, that's the institutionalized left.
Here's a simple question, why is it that when people like Ben Shapiro travel to California to speak the college needs to spend 600k on security with hundreds of security guards? I don't recall a single Liberal speaker being mounded by mobs and being shouted down as a Nazi ( ironically he's Jewish).
The stuff being taught on in college's is identity politics on a whole other level. Fake degrees with fake Professors teaching faux content. Not only are they pushing the gender nonsense, they're also pushing rubbish like white privilege to the point that if you're a white person you're not allowed to speak. Whitey is evil!!
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And another thing, the reason why the online troll armies became a thing in a political sphere was because it's a reactive counter movement to all the SJW stuff.
The issue with painting the "left" as being obsessed with identity politics, is more the issue with painting the mainstream centrist social democrat political movements as being particularly left-wing or interested in any of this stuff.
The "blue wave" in the mid-terms was born of talking about policy. Healthcare, jobs, minimum wage, etc. Normal, middle of the road stuff that's taken for granted as part of everyone's political platform in Western Europe.
The conflation of largely bland, but unobtrusive and inoffensive policy platforms, with irrelevant IdPol trivia spouted by people who are mostly total non-entities in terms of politcal or economic clout is in part a form of self-deception by the right, othering the Democratic platform in order to cling to their own identities, and also a deliberate smearing tactic by the propagandists that appeal to those people.
I don't think there is no identity politics on the left, but in terms of the mainstream, it's quite weak, and where it exists, it pertains to incredibly minor issues that just aren't worth the hand wringing the right does over them.You get to a stage when you realise that fringes on both sides are the problem
No, that isn't correct.
The left wing fringe might be coocoo, but they have no actual power economically or politically, so I really don't think you can label them a problem, in the grand scheme of things.
For the right however, in the US, with the rise of Tea Party astroturfed populism and Trumpism, and the continuing support of both from the Republican party at large, the fringe has taken a strangledhold of mainstream conservatism.
In the UK, you have the DUP being kingmakers and the government held hostage to a similar brand of corporatist Euroskeptics like Farage and Jacob Reese Mogg as you see in the US, in Italy you have the Legia Nord, Poland and Hungary are both in the midst of constitutional upheaval as far right autocrats are attempting to pack courts. There have been inroads made across europe with this kind of dangerous pseudo-fascism, and where they haven't, serious attempts have still been made, and defeated.
Perhaps because we're a bit of an irrelevance, or maybe down to societal factors, we've thus far been spared in Ireland, but we've seen in other countries how quickly matters can deteriorate.
There is a deliberate global effort to push this kind of politics. It would be nice to just lay the blame at the door of the Kremlin and Putin, but as much, if not more to blame are propagandists such as Rupert Murdoch, the Koch brothers and the Mercers.
Whatever the merits of fringe leftism (I certainly have no time for it), it's largely low level grassroots stuff with little popular appeal.0 -
The left wing fringe might be coocoo, but they have no actual power economically or politically, so I really don't think you can label them a problem, in the grand scheme of things.
We obviously won't agree on anything substantial but I felt like this point is just incredibly brazen.
Are you really going to argue that the left don't have a substantial hold on academia, the mainstream media, silicon valley and so on. If you are going to argue that I'll write a longer post with sources to back up my viewpoint.
If you're arguing Republicans are in bed with the big tobacco companies or large corporations etc across the board I won't dispute that, it's true. However I can argue the same thing about the Democrats and the Chinese.0 -
We obviously won't agree on anything substantial but I felt like this point is just incredibly brazen.
Are you really going to argue that the left don't have a substantial hold on academia, the mainstream media, silicon valley and so on. If you are going to argue that I'll write a longer post with sources to back up my viewpoint.
I did specifically say industry and political power. Cultural and academic circles have pretty much always been more liberal than the mainstream, but that doesn't mean they wield power. Why is there so little penetration of those people's ideology into policy if they're so powerful?
Why is marxism still a dirty word and "socialism" is used as a bludgeon by the right if the mainstream of the Democratic party has been infiltrated by these supposed pink haired gender-fluid yoga enthusiasts?
There's a funny sort of Schrodinger's marxists thing going on with the Democrats, where the likes of Trump can call Clinton or other third way centrists corporate shills, while they're simultaneously acid-dropping, sexually indeterminate hippies.0 -
I did specifically say industry and political power. Cultural and academic circles have pretty much always been more liberal than the mainstream, but that doesn't mean they wield power. Why is there so little penetration of those people's ideology into policy if they're so powerful?
Academia, media and Silicon valley do have vast Political power, what else what would you class outside of that that holds the same wealth in political terms?
On the bold bit that's not true at all, a few posts back I posted a tweet that showed a Women being investigated by police in the UK because she misgendered somebody on twitter, apparently accidentally or in the process of making a point after a TV debate.
To argue the media hold no political power is absurd also to be fair. 96% of donors working in media during the 2016 race donated to Clinton, not Trump. ( Non partisan research ). I won't bother getting into how partisan the main stream media is besides pointing out that in Trump's initial term, studies show over 90% of coverage was negative on ABC,NBC,CBS ignoring CNN and MSNBC.
https://publicintegrity.org/federal-politics/journalists-shower-hillary-clinton-with-campaign-cash/
Silicon valley is twitter, facebook, youtube etc. Conservatives claiming bias aren't doing it out of thin air.
Academia shapes culture because of how it influences future generations so it's probably the most important aspect of my point, I can't really expand more than my previous post on it.0 -
The Democrats aren't the ones moving to the extremes
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Source, scale, factors etc?
All the heading says is political alignment, which is meaningless and it only runs to 2013.0 -
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oscarBravo wrote: »That may be true, in a facile sense - but it ignores the fact that people with certain skin colours have to work substantially harder to achieve the same levels of success.
If you have evidence of institutional racism I'd like to see it. I'd never argue those from a tougher background have a harder time, that isn't racism though. It goes for whites too.0 -
hill16bhoy wrote: »The OP talked about "fact over feeling", yet could only provide feeling, which is about all the right can do these days.
Ah! Mr. facts. I'm guessing you can give a very accurate, objective assessment of the situation.hill16bhoy wrote: »Right-wing politics has always had an intellectual crisis
And we are off to a bad start it seems. 'Always'.. how far back are you going? It's too vacuous a statement to consider.hill16bhoy wrote: »it has consistently been on the wrong side of history
Right wing politics has consistently been on the wrong side of history? Are you just saying random things hoping that some of it hits home? Right and left wing politics arguably only dates as far back as the French revolution, and most of that has shown that revolutionary fervor, which is generally a manifestation of left-wing politics, has been on the wrong side of history (the French Revolution included, of course).hill16bhoy wrote: »it has always sought to deny rthe rights of minorities and the vulnerable, but it has never had more of an intelletual crisis never than now. In country after country, it has been hijacked by crypto-facists and populist bull****ters to whom truth is a mortal enemy.
Sounds like some feelings over facts. Totally surprised. Right-wing is conservative (by definition). Monarchists are right wing. Large property owners. Those with vested interests. Some right-wing governments and groups have indeed targeted minorities (so have left wing of course.. ask someone from eastern Europe some day).hill16bhoy wrote: »Trump and Brexit are just the most obvious chaotic manifestations of it, but Brazil, India, Russia, Poland, Hungary, Italy and the Philippines etc. are now in the grip of outright fascist or crypto-fascist chaos as well.
So which of those are fascistic, instead of just crypto-fascist, in your opinion? I think you'll find your much feared crypto-fascists 'or outright fascist' are in government in Austria and Denmark as well (albeit in coalitions), just in case you want to widen the scare mongering. You also forgot the Czech Republic, and Belgium.hill16bhoy wrote: »The wider manifestations of it are an onslaught of hate speech against minorities and the vulnerable, resulting in the inevitable upsurge of far right terrorism like Christchurch last week.
Like Christchuch and.. um.. er.. can you think of another terrorist attack against a minority? Charleston church shooting. Is that it. Is that all that there is?
The drug users in Philippines. Does that count? They are technically a minority. Trying to help you out, here, hill16bhoy. I know you are a fact-based individual.hill16bhoy wrote: »Right-wing politics these days (and I don't include the vast majority of Fine Gael and Fianna Fail in this as, while I'd never vote for them, they at least are rooted in some sort of moderation) is an intellectual black hole, a bankrupt sham that has no ideas other than to wallow in pathetic imagined victimhood.
I bet you vote Sinn Fein. It would be *highly* amusing if you did.hill16bhoy wrote: »To people who support this sort of crypto-fascism, the fascists are never the fascists, they are the victims, and anything to the left of this bankrupt cesspit of idiocy is "totalitarianism".
Remember, hill16bhoy, focus on the facts, not the feelings. Nationalization of production, cultural mythos, autarky, expansionism, disdain for democracy, private military forces, cult of personality, pan-nationalism, opposition to traditional forces (such as the aristocracy and Church). These are what makes something fascistic. It's not some slur without definite bounds. It actually means something.hill16bhoy wrote: »Orwellian doesn't even begin to explain it.
Indeed, it does not, though perhaps not in the way that you mean.hill16bhoy wrote: »The notion that there is a problem with so called "left wing totalitarianism", like everything else in the make believe world of right-wing crypto-fascism, is a fantasy.
Okay, that's enough for today. Your post is too bad, it is unsalvageable. I mean, unless socialist and communist governments aren't left wing in your opinion (and everything you say is so based upon sentiment instead of fact, that they may well not be).0 -
Wanderer78 wrote: »To be fair, casey's overall 'success' shows there's an opening for populism in Irish politics, which I think might rare it's ugly head again soon. On that matter, he must be busy sorting out his Irish tax affairs, he's gone rather quite!
I think it was more a sense of people were happy somebody was finally giving the travellers the criticism they deserve rather than a belief in his political abilities.0 -
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Eric Cartman wrote: »I think it was more a sense of people were happy somebody was finally giving the travellers the criticism they deserve rather than a belief in his political abilities.
Is that not populism? We could have been left with a President winning on using an issue, Travelers, he's likely had no dealings in himself to win over the public and represent the nation.
While there ares those guilty of 'just something you say when trying to get elected' there are generally clear policies there too. In the U.S. the up and coming Liberals seem to be a new breed which is what that country needs. We could do with some of that in Ireland too.0 -
Are you really going to argue that the left don't have a substantial hold on academia, the mainstream media, silicon valley and so on. If you are going to argue that I'll write a longer post with sources to back up my viewpoint.
Sorry but this is literally delusional. Are you seriously trying to suggest that Silicon Valley the biggest tax cheats going who are also hell bent on hiring as little personal as possible no matter the cost are are left wing?0 -
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Sorry but this is literally delusional. Are you seriously trying to suggest that Silicon Valley the biggest tax cheats going who are also hell bent on hiring as little personal as possible no matter the cost are are left wing?
As business entities, no, but internally they operate like communist states trying to keep everyone at the office by providing every service a person uses in house, their PR image and agenda is designed to appear on the left to appeal to that demographic , their content moderation policies often stifle the right.
theres a separation between what the lawyers, executives and accountants do and what investors want, and the consumer facing image and lower employee culture.0 -
Eric Cartman wrote: »As business entities, no, but internally they operate like communist states trying to keep everyone at the office by providing every service a person uses in house, their PR image and agenda is designed to appear on the left to appeal to that demographic , their content moderation policies often stifle the right.
theres a separation between what the lawyers, executives and accountants do and what investors want, and the consumer facing image and lower employee culture.
A company trying to keep staff from wanting to leave the office is Communism? Do they share profits made equally?
Not to mention Gates stole a lot of his start up ideas/software from well meaning hippies.
So you disagree that that are left wing in ideology? You seem to be contradicting yourself.0 -
Matt Barrett wrote: »A company trying to keep staff from wanting to leave the office is Communism? Do they share profits made equally?
Not to mention Gates stole a lot of his start up ideas/software from well meaning hippies.
So you disagree that that are left wing in ideology? You seem to be contradicting yourself.
im not contradicting myself at all. to the lower level staff and the consumer, most of these brands portray a left leaning image and promote a lot of these values, but in the background they operate as hardline capitalist as they can and hope nobody on the outside pays attention to it.0 -
I'm usually not a huge fan of somewhat emotive words like 'totalitarianism' but in defense of the OP here's something:
How many people have you heard of getting fired, publicly shamed, boycotted for expressing right wing views? Lots, right? Now I'm not going to get into the ins and outs of every gay cake controversy - I'm not making a proposition that every time this has happened that it wasn't deserved.
However, consider this, how many times have you heard a similar thing happening about something expressing a left wing view?
Yeah. I can't think of a single time in recent years. Even if you can find an isolated incident of where it's happened, this is clearly weighted in one direction.0 -
RandomName2 wrote: »I'm usually not a huge fan of somewhat emotive words like 'totalitarianism' but in defense of the OP here's something:
How many people have you heard of getting fired, publicly shamed, boycotted for expressing right wing views? Lots, right? Now I'm not going to get into the ins and outs of every gay cake controversy - I'm not making a proposition that every time this has happened that it wasn't deserved.
However, consider this, how many times have you heard a similar thing happening about something expressing a left wing view?
Yeah. I can't think of a single time in recent years. Even if you can find an isolated incident of where it's happened, this is clearly weighted in one direction.
NFL players kneeling to highlight police violence was like one of biggest stories in us sport in years..
Kathy Griffen lost her job because of a dummy head
There were attempts to get Stephen Colbert kicked off tv as well as attempts to get folks to boycott Hamilton the musical0 -
And who was front and centre looking to get them fired?rossie1977 wrote: »NFL players kneeling to highlight police violence was like one of biggest stories in us sport in years..
Kathy Griffen lost her job because of a dummy head
There were attempts to get Stephen Colbert kicked off tv as well as attempts to get folks to boycott Hamilton the musical0 -
RandomName2 wrote: »I'm usually not a huge fan of somewhat emotive words like 'totalitarianism' but in defense of the OP here's something:
How many people have you heard of getting fired, publicly shamed, boycotted for expressing right wing views? Lots, right? Now I'm not going to get into the ins and outs of every gay cake controversy - I'm not making a proposition that every time this has happened that it wasn't deserved.
However, consider this, how many times have you heard a similar thing happening about something expressing a left wing view?
Yeah. I can't think of a single time in recent years. Even if you can find an isolated incident of where it's happened, this is clearly weighted in one direction.
Actually, no... not a lot really. I've seen some people fired for expressing views with are contrary to the ethos and views of their employer, but not for "expressing right wing views".0 -
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rossie1977 wrote: »NFL players kneeling to highlight police violence was like one of biggest stories in us sport in years..
One of the things that highlighted just what a load of hypocritical waffle the 'BUT BUT BUT FREE SPEECH' position is for so many people.0 -
Eric Cartman wrote: »im not contradicting myself at all. to the lower level staff and the consumer, most of these brands portray a left leaning image and promote a lot of these values, but in the background they operate as hardline capitalist as they can and hope nobody on the outside pays attention to it.
I'd agree. That's not left wing though, that's marketing. It's what happens at the back end that counts.0 -
Schnitzler Hiyori Geta wrote: »Actually, no... not a lot really. I've seen some people fired for expressing views with are contrary to the ethos and views of their employer, but not for "expressing right wing views".
Ah you aren't exactly an objective observer. Also I like your 'contrary ethos to the views of the employer' line. It basically gives you a free pass. James Gunn? Acting contrary to the ethos of his employer. Kevin Myers? Contrary to the ethos of his employer, and so on.
It can be even more wide ranging. That Alex Jones guy? Contrary to the ethos of the Paypall terms and conditions (Alex Jones is a bit of an arsehole but that isn't the point here). Or Jordan Peterson? Contrary to the ethos of Cambridge. I think you may have struck a one size fits all solution here, Schnitzler Hiyori Geta. Richard Ned Lebow? Contrary to the ethos of elevators .. I mean The International Studies Association.
Who here called for a boycott of China during the Olympics? Noone. Who is calling for a boycott of Israel during the Eurovision? Everyone it seems (the nationalist-socialists are most vocal, but they are by no means alone)
Granted I know that this thread is about the US, and I think that is somewhat erroneous. The United States is way more right wing than anywhere in western Europe. The Democratic Party in the US is arguably more right wing than the Tories in the UK. But consumerist activism, demonstrations, civic disobedience, boycotts in the US are still predominantly left-wing in nature. This is not to say that they are by any means wrong in general, but the treatment is not even remotely even.0 -
RandomName2 wrote: »I'm usually not a huge fan of somewhat emotive words like 'totalitarianism' but in defense of the OP here's something:
How many people have you heard of getting fired, publicly shamed, boycotted for expressing right wing views? Lots, right? Now I'm not going to get into the ins and outs of every gay cake controversy - I'm not making a proposition that every time this has happened that it wasn't deserved.
However, consider this, how many times have you heard a similar thing happening about something expressing a left wing view?
Yeah. I can't think of a single time in recent years. Even if you can find an isolated incident of where it's happened, this is clearly weighted in one direction.
It's like saying you never hear of vegetarians getting done for eating meat yet meat eaters get it all the time. There's degree's of course.
If you create actions based on hate and discrimination that's a problem that is unlikely to often come from people looking for equality and inclusion. It's more likely from a right wing ideology. If you want to cite free speech and 'the left', you'd likely find it's the left trying to stifle hateful or discriminatory speech, which is open for debate. The right and left often borrow from each others guide book. It's about people not a box containing only left and another only right.RandomName2 wrote: »...
Who here called for a boycott of China during the Olympics? Noone. Who is calling for a boycott of Israel during the Eurovision? Everyone it seems (the nationalist-socialists are most vocal, but they are by no means alone) ...
Your point? I don't think we should be doing business with Russia, China or Israel. There's obviously more money to be made from China and Russia. This says what about people wanting to boycott the criminal Israeli state?0 -
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People losing their jobs because of their political views is a.) uncommon and, more importantly, b.) not an example of totalitarianism. Bullying, possibly. Grounds for unfair dismissal in some jurisdictions, perhaps. But totalitarianism it ain't. If it did count as totalitarianism, it would completely undermine the meaning of the word.
For example, it's actually illegal for a communist party member to become a teacher in the state of California. Yet California is not, nor ever has been, a totalitarian state.
CORRECTION: I looks like that law was repealed two years ago.0 -
Chips Lovell wrote: »For example, it's actually illegal for a communist party member to become a teacher in the state of California. Yet California is not, nor ever has been, a totalitarian state.
Well that certainly has the smell of it, as did McCarthyism in general.0 -
James Gunn has been re-hired, I agree that was a mistake.RandomName2 wrote: »Ah you aren't exactly an objective observer. Also I like your 'contrary ethos to the views of the employer' line. It basically gives you a free pass. James Gunn? Acting contrary to the ethos of his employer. Kevin Myers? Contrary to the ethos of his employer, and so on.
Kevin Myers is a holocaust-denier... enough said.0 -
hill16bhoy wrote: »The OP talked about "fact over feeling", yet could only provide feeling, which is about all the right can do these days.
Right-wing politics has always had an intellectual crisis, it has consistently been on the wrong side of history, it has always sought to deny rthe rights of minorities and the vulnerable, but it has never had more of an intelletual crisis never than now. In country after country, it has been hijacked by crypto-facists and populist bull****ters to whom truth is a mortal enemy.
Trump and Brexit are just the most obvious chaotic manifestations of it, but Brazil, India, Russia, Poland, Hungary, Italy and the Philippines etc. are now in the grip of outright fascist or crypto-fascist chaos as well. The wider manifestations of it are an onslaught of hate speech against minorities and the vulnerable, resulting in the inevitable upsurge of far right terrorism like Christchurch last week.
Right-wing politics these days (and I don't include the vast majority of Fine Gael and Fianna Fail in this as, while I'd never vote for them, they at least are rooted in some sort of moderation) is an intellectual black hole, a bankrupt sham that has no ideas other than to wallow in pathetic imagined victimhood.
To people who support this sort of crypto-fascism, the fascists are never the fascists, they are the victims, and anything to the left of this bankrupt cesspit of idiocy is "totalitarianism".
Orwellian doesn't even begin to explain it.
The notion that there is a problem with so called "left wing totalitarianism", like everything else in the make believe world of right-wing crypto-fascism, is a fantasy.
And remember, these people are never, ever here to debate, only to throw out lies. They're here to gaslight, to deliberately try to distort reality. This includes several posters on this thread.
Right-wing politics has given up the ghost in terms of cloaking its real self. Now that the rights of women, ethnic and racial minorities, gay and trans people etc. are pretty much enshrined, at least in Europe and in much of the developed world, the great pushback from the bigots has begun. And because there are literally no legitimate reasons whatsoever for a pushback on people's rights, only naked bigotry, obfuscation and disinformation can be used to achieve these insane objectives.
All very eloquent but with no real meat on the bone...
Trump and Brexit are a consequence of disenfranchised voters, disenfranchised by a political system that has avoided action on the very issues that threaten those people, these are very real threats to their quality of life in whatever form or other.
This country has a huge percentage of disenfranchised voters also, thankfully we have had no chancers trying to speak to the worst element of those voters, despite the hilarious overreaction to the Peter Casey vote.
Populism is a huge threat to public discourse, I'd consider feminism and racism amongst popular political movements, along with all identity politics, I would also consider the corruption of the political systems in the developed world by huge corporations as an even bigger issue.
The right wing crypo facists are not members of political parties nor do they have any traction on mainstream media....I don't understand this fear of the far right...only a true moron believes themselves to be left or right on each and every, life is way more nuanced than that!
This thread is about the US, where its mainstream media are in the gutter...if you believe what you read or see you are in no position to be diagnosing intellectual crises...Trump will romp home in 2020 not because he is a racist bigot but because the Democrats have embraced identity politics and the mainstream media has about as much credibility as a 1980s Italian football referee with a gambling problem.
We are at a point in history where massive american corporations have access to more personal data than any entity in the history of humankind.
We are at a point in history where the workforce is about to be exposed to the greatest threat to the ordinary worker in centuries, threatening every facet of our economies, financial systems and political entities in the form of Automation, AI and Deep Learning.
We are at a point where American trust in media is in the toilet, which indicates to me that those who mistrust media have a greater intellectual capacity than those that who still trust mainstream media.
We are at apoint in history where the US colleges, have abandoned science and intellectual rigour in favour of gender populism.
We are at a point in history where quotas of all types are being imposed in democracies across the West, which is the first act of a totalitarian state, quotas are manifestly undemocratic.
If you are not uncomfortable about the state of public discourse, which is affecting academia, art and culture, and our politics and economies, then are you really seeing what is happening or are you buying into the toxic group think that suggests White Male Privilege is a real entity and must be attacked, in academia, in the arts and culture, in our political systems and economies...
We have replaced a group of humourless science deniers in the Church, with a group of even more venomous science deniers who believe that gender is assigned at birth or that an abortion is not the ending of a life.
For the record, I have no opinion on Trump or Brexit and I am pro choice.0 -
Silentcorner wrote: »All very eloquent but with no real meat on the bone...
Trump and Brexit are a consequence of disenfranchised voters, disenfranchised by a political system that has avoided action on the very issues that threaten those people, these are very real threats to their quality of life in whatever form or other.
This country has a huge percentage of disenfranchised voters also, thankfully we have had no chancers trying to speak to the worst element of those voters, despite the hilarious overreaction to the Peter Casey vote.
Populism is a huge threat to public discourse, I'd consider feminism and racism amongst popular political movements, along with all identity politics, I would also consider the corruption of the political systems in the developed world by huge corporations as an even bigger issue.
The right wing crypo facists are not members of political parties nor do they have any traction on mainstream media....I don't understand this fear of the far right...only a true moron believes themselves to be left or right on each and every, life is way more nuanced than that!
This thread is about the US, where its mainstream media are in the gutter...if you believe what you read or see you are in no position to be diagnosing intellectual crises...Trump will romp home in 2020 not because he is a racist bigot but because the Democrats have embraced identity politics and the mainstream media has about as much credibility as a 1980s Italian football referee with a gambling problem.
We are at a point in history where massive american corporations have access to more personal data than any entity in the history of humankind.
We are at a point in history where the workforce is about to be exposed to the greatest threat to the ordinary worker in centuries, threatening every facet of our economies, financial systems and political entities in the form of Automation, AI and Deep Learning.
We are at a point where American trust in media is in the toilet, which indicates to me that those who mistrust media have a greater intellectual capacity than those that who still trust mainstream media.
We are at apoint in history where the US colleges, have abandoned science and intellectual rigour in favour of gender populism.
We are at a point in history where quotas of all types are being imposed in democracies across the West, which is the first act of a totalitarian state, quotas are manifestly undemocratic.
If you are not uncomfortable about the state of public discourse, which is affecting academia, art and culture, and our politics and economies, then are you really seeing what is happening or are you buying into the toxic group think that suggests White Male Privilege is a real entity and must be attacked, in academia, in the arts and culture, in our political systems and economies...
So in short immigrants, fools who click there fingers interrupting people talking on college campuses and people who believe in different genders along with people who believe the MSN (along with AI, automation and Deep learning) are the greatest threats to humanity at the moment? This is what happens when you spend your day reading reddit or watching Fox News.
Identity politics is mostly pushed by the right, "white people are being oppressed", "minorities get priority everywhere", "trans people are going to eat your children", "gay people will run off with your husband". The extreme left on college campuses that turn up and say stupid stuff do not represent the majority of progressives. I cannot think of one person I know, even the ones that that are gay, that think there are 99 genders or 300 pound women that were born physically male should be allow enter womans wrestling tournaments. This narrative is solely being overblown by the right. Like banning Christmas every year. How does what sex someone calls themselves oppress you? If you were to drop a white male into anytime in human history in the majority of the World they would fair substantially better off than any other gender or race, this why historically males are seen to be privileged. A white male goes for any generic job, get a loan, get prison sentence (females would probably fair better there, but then again they commit less crime) in America they are more like to be successful than anyone else, so this White Privilege you talk of still exists today.
People distrust the media because the waters have been so badly muddied. I see you omitted climate change as a threat, which side muddied the water there? The real science deniers have, the same people who did the same for tobacco companies One leader constantly praises other leaders of totalitarian states like no other, I will let you guess who that is and which side of the divide he is on.0 -
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FrostyJack wrote: »So in short immigrants, fools who click there fingers interrupting people talking on college campuses and people who believe in different genders along with people who believe the MSN (along with AI, automation and Deep learning) are the greatest threats to humanity at the moment? This is what happens when you spend your day reading reddit or watching Fox News.
Identity politics is mostly pushed by the right, "white people are being oppressed", "minorities get priority everywhere", "trans people are going to eat your children", "gay people will run off with your husband". The extreme left on college campuses that turn up and say stupid stuff do not represent the majority of progressives. I cannot think of one person I know, even the ones that that are gay, that think there are 99 genders or 300 pound women that were born physically male should be allow enter womans wrestling tournaments. This narrative is solely being overblown by the right. Like banning Christmas every year. How does what sex someone calls themselves oppress you? If you were to drop a white male into anytime in human history in the majority of the World they would fair substantially better off than any other gender or race, this why historically males are seen to be privileged. A white male goes for any generic job, get a loan, get prison sentence (females would probably fair better there, but then again they commit less crime) in America they are more like to be successful than anyone else, so this White Privilege you talk of still exists today.
People distrust the media because the waters have been so badly muddied. I see you omitted climate change as a threat, which side muddied the water there? The real science deniers have, the same people who did the same for tobacco companies One leader constantly praises other leaders of totalitarian states like no other, I will let you guess who that is and which side of the divide he is on.
Feminism is identity politics, not being pushed by the right.
Racism (affecting only selected races) is identity politics, not being pushed by the right....quotas are benefiting both identity groups in the US.
Identity politics is the most blatant form of populism.
I don't watch fox and I have no idea what reddit is....I do not trust media in any way shape or form, for too long media has fooled me time and time again, I didn't realise I was drinking kool aid...no one ever does!
I never mentioned immigrants!!! I don't believe all Trump voters are idiots, or Brexit voters for that matter on account of the fact I know very little of the varying nuances that impact public discourse and the political systems, I would guess that the two party systems in both US and Britain are now being exposed for their inability to handle a more polarised political landscape, which is being fueled by a concoction of social media and failing media landscapes all of which allow for echo chambers, which is bit like when you spike Kool Aid with crystal meth!
What kind of moron, in this day and age describes themselves as exclusively right or left, it used to be about workers versus big business and liberals verses conservatives, but modern life is a lot more complicated now...apart from a deluded kool aid addict that is!0
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