Security Upgrade

RS98 · 27-05-2019 8:27pm #1

Hi folks,

Was wondering if this: "Each firearm shall be stored in a gun safe which complies with BS 7558 and which shall be securely fixed to a solid structure.
The place in which the firearms are stored shall
have an alarm fitted and the external doors to the
place shall be fitted with locks which comply with
BS 3621" means that the lock of the door to the room in which the safe is kept must meet that standard, or the front and back doors of the house must have locks which meet BS3621?

Thanks

alanmc · 27-05-2019 8:54pm

RS98 wrote: »

Hi folks,

Was wondering if this: "Each firearm shall be stored in a gun safe which complies with BS 7558 and which shall be securely fixed to a solid structure.
The place in which the firearms are stored shall
have an alarm fitted and the external doors to the
place shall be fitted with locks which comply with
BS 3621" means that the lock of the door to the room in which the safe is kept must meet that standard, or the front and back doors of the house must have locks which meet BS3621?

Thanks

I read that as either. Realistically though, you'll have your most secure locks on your external doors.

Cass · 27-05-2019 8:59pm

I have locks on the room to my gun room which comply with this standard and the front/back door of the house also comply to this standard.

It wasn't done on purpose, just worked out that way, and when i've had the CPO out he only checked the locks on the gun room door. He made a point about the bolts having a backing and i showed him how i already have the bolts drilled through the door and secured on the back of the door with a solid steel plate to prevent prying the bolts from the door.

Once the front and back doors of the house lock i don't think it'll be of as much importance as the room to where your safe is having the necessary lock on it.

RS98 · 27-05-2019 10:35pm

Sound lads thanks

cookimonster · 27-05-2019 10:39pm

This came about from lads, particularly farmers storing guns in open sheds, out houses etc etc, never mind the kitchen or behind the hall door.
Although you could be compelled to install extra locks internaly .....

SECURE STORAGE OF LEGALLY HELD FIREARMS
One of the main objectives of imposing conditions, when granting certificates for firearms, is to ensure their safe custody at all times. In the interests of public safety or the peace, a superintendent or chief superintendent may attach any such reasonable conditions as that issuing person deems necessary......
The Garda Commissioner's Guidelines as to
the Practical Application and Operation of
the Firearms Acts, 1925-2009.

....a reasonable interpretation, as mentioned by Cass, would that external doors and windows of the building in which the firearms are stored would be required to meet such specifications.

The same can be said with alarms, qoute:

The place in which the firearms are stored shall have an alarm fitted.... end quote;

...meaning the building and not necessarily the actual room itself, but then again refer back to the Commissioners Guidelines Annex C opening paragraph, secound line as mentioned above, as to what may be asked of an individual.

In both cases it gives an individual flexibility as to where the guns are stored but not so much as how. For instance if you wish to store them in a shed, out buildings, garage etc this would be acceptable once the basic criteria is met.

Kran · 28-05-2019 1:37pm

Any idea how many guns are stolen each year from the homes of licensed Firearms owners? It must be minimal.

BattleCorp · 28-05-2019 3:23pm

Kran wrote: »

Any idea how many guns are stolen each year from the homes of licensed Firearms owners? It must be minimal.

One thing for sure, you can't rely on the Gardaí figures for stolen firearms. The same people who counted the breath tests must have been counting the stolen firearms.

Here is the full list of firearms that the Gardaí said were stolen between 2010 and 2014. It's complete bullsh1t as a lot of them aren't actually legally firearms. And they are counting bullets as guns so if one box of 50 bullets was stolen, it went down as 50 firearms.

Cartridges /Rounds of Ammo. 266
Shotgun (Single Barrel) 242
Shotgun Total 852
Rifle (Bolt Action) 178
Imitation Gun 62
Shotgun 60
Air Rifle 45
Shotgun (Semi Automatic) 45
Air Pistol 44
Rifle (Pump Action) 43
Rifle 37
Replica (Blank Firing) 30
Gun safe 29
Shotgun (Side By Side) 27
Shotgun (Pump Action) 25
Replica (Non Firing) 24
Telescopic Sight 18
Pistol 12
Toy Gun 12
Gas Gun 9
Rifle (Lever Action) 8
Humane Killer 7
Paintball Gun 4
Prohibited Weapon 4
Starting Pistol 4
Unknown 4
Musket 3
Revolver 3
Cross Bow 2
Flare Pistol 2
Shotgun (Bolt Action) 2
Stun Gun 2
Grenade 1
Rifles 5

And aside from the obvious mistakes in the above list, we've no idea if anything at all is accurate on that list.

Kran · 28-05-2019 3:52pm

BattleCorp wrote: »

One thing for sure, you can't rely on the Gardaí figures for stolen firearms. The same people who counted the breath tests must have been counting the stolen firearms.

Here is the full list of firearms that the Gardaí said were stolen between 2010 and 2014. It's complete bullsh1t as a lot of them aren't actually legally firearms. And they are counting bullets as guns so if one box of 50 bullets was stolen, it went down as 50 firearms.
Cartridges /Rounds of Ammo. 266

Shotgun (Single Barrel) 242

Shotgun Total 852

Rifle (Bolt Action) 178

Imitation Gun 62

Shotgun 60

Air Rifle 45

Shotgun (Semi Automatic) 45

Air Pistol 44

Rifle (Pump Action) 43

Rifle 37

Replica (Blank Firing) 30

Gun safe 29

Shotgun (Side By Side) 27

Shotgun (Pump Action) 25

Replica (Non Firing) 24

Telescopic Sight 18

Pistol 12

Toy Gun 12

Gas Gun 9

Rifle (Lever Action) 8

Humane Killer 7

Paintball Gun 4

Prohibited Weapon 4

Starting Pistol 4

Unknown 4

Musket 3

Revolver 3

Cross Bow 2

Flare Pistol 2

Shotgun (Bolt Action) 2

Stun Gun 2

Grenade 1

Rifles 5

And aside from the obvious mistakes in the above list, we've no idea if anything at all is accurate on that list.

It wasn’t the brightest fella who rang the guards and reported their grenade was stolen.

BattleCorp · 28-05-2019 4:17pm

Kran wrote: »

It wasn’t the brightest fella who rang the guards and reported their grenade was stolen.

I don't mean to sound disrespectful to the Gardaí because they have a sh1t job and lets be honest, we'd be fcuked without them. But you seriously have to question either their attitude or training when it comes to how those statistics came about.

Every licence application requires the applicant to state the make and model. And you also have to tick the type of firearm such as shotgun, rifle etc. How hard is it to identify what type of firearm was stolen when you know the make and model? Probably 1 minute on Google would tell you what type of firearm it was.

And secondly, who in the name of God thinks that a gun safe is a firearm. Or an imitation gun, or a telescopic sight, or lots of other things on that list. And what's an unknown firearm? Surely they wouldn't have given a licence for a firearm if they didn't know what type of firearm they were licencing?

That list is a special kind of stupid.

Cass · 28-05-2019 4:33pm

The other aspect of those figures is there is no difference between guns stolen from a private property and those from a gun dealer.

So if two gun dealers were robbed of say 250 guns they all go down as just stolen. So if the total figure for stolen firearms (actual firearms) was say (example) 400, but 250 of those were from two raids on RFDs there is nothing to differentiate between commercial property thefts and private property thefts.

alanmc · 28-05-2019 5:29pm

It looks like a dump of a query from a database. ... which is probably what it is.

Grizzly 45 · 28-05-2019 8:49pm

That's from the FOIA on the PULSE system in the great Garda inspired gun grab of 2015.Opened a major barrel of worms upon AGS,and it it wasnt for Frannie Fitzgerald pulling their chestnuts out of the fire,this would have made the news long before the penalty points and Garda whistleblower scandals.:rolleyes: This is the 3rd major AGS scandal,but one that cuiously never went public.

Also who were the bright sparks that reported their prohibited weapons being stolen?That could be anything from a flick knife to an RPG 7 in that category.

jb88 · 29-05-2019 12:55pm

Kran wrote: »

Any idea how many guns are stolen each year from the homes of licensed Firearms owners? It must be minimal.

Had a conversation with a Garda a few years ago when I was applying for a new licence and he told me about two seperate firearms stolen in that week in his district. I hate to say it but Farmers and unsecured shotguns have a lot to account for with this in many parts of the country.

RS98 · 31-05-2019 5:04pm

Would anyone have the number for the Firearms Policy Unit? Couldn't find them online

Cass · 31-05-2019 5:13pm

016661911 or 016661916

RS98 · 31-05-2019 5:19pm

Thanks Cass

kowloon · 02-06-2019 8:24pm

Just out of curiosity, what kind of setup do fiearms dealers need to comply to? I've been in a few dealers places but I'm not sure how much of their setup is by choice and how much is set out in legislation.

Cass · 02-06-2019 8:53pm

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/2017/si/646/

kowloon · 02-06-2019 9:36pm

I see that there's a fair bit of room for interpretation by the commissioner.

RS98 · 06-06-2019 1:32am

As a matter of interest has anyone recently gotten a visit from the CPO? What was it like?

BattleCorp · 06-06-2019 8:08am

RS98 wrote: »

As a matter of interest has anyone recently gotten a visit from the CPO? What was it like?

I'd a visit from the CPO over a year ago. He was very thorough. He checked my alarm, my monitoring paperwork, the windows and doors, and obviously my safes. He did his best to rip the safes from where they were bolted to the walls. I was relieved when none of them budged. I also had paperwork to show that the safes complied with BS7558 which he looked at.

He was very pleasant to deal with, actually he was a gent. Very professional and he was speedy with his report to the CS too.

RS98 · 06-06-2019 8:34am

Excellent thanks, I think I might be due a visit soon

Cass · 06-06-2019 8:44pm

I got my third check over a year back.

He inspected my safes for the gun, the safe keep my bolts in (separate to the gun safes and separate room) the mounting of them to the walls, the locks and plating on the door to the gun room, the alarm system, that is was monitored (i'm in level 4 security), my CCTV cameras (not asked for but i installed them), the house in general, the front and back door, and i explained the bungalow is not a dormer so not upstairs or velux windows.

All in all he spent about 20 to 25 minutes. The first visit i got was longer. He took note of everything, checked all the above and took pictures. The subsequent visits are quicker as it's just a check up rather than full inspection.

RS98 · 06-06-2019 10:30pm

Cass wrote: »

I got my third check over a year back.

He inspected my safes for the gun, the safe keep my bolts in (separate to the gun safes and separate room) the mounting of them to the walls, the locks and plating on the door to the gun room, the alarm system, that is was monitored (i'm in level 4 security), my CCTV cameras (not asked for but i installed them), the house in general, the front and back door, and i explained the bungalow is not a dormer so not upstairs or velux windows.

All in all he spent about 20 to 25 minutes. The first visit i got was longer. He took note of everything, checked all the above and took pictures. The subsequent visits are quicker as it's just a check up rather than full inspection.

Sounds very thorough. Can I ask if you bother to take the bolts out of semi autos?

Also, I don't understand the bit about the veulux windows, why are they a problem?

BattleCorp · 06-06-2019 11:03pm

You don't have to take out the bolts unless it's a condition of your licence. It's just good practice - until you turn up at a competition 2 hours away from home and realise that you left your bolt at home in the other safe. That wasn't a fun day.

Cass · 06-06-2019 11:22pm

As Battlecorp said it was not made a condition of my licenses so there is no legal need to do it, but from habit i remove the bolts from the rifles and drop the bolt carrier out of the semi auto. I remove something, usually the bolt, from all my firearms so they are rendered useless.

As for Velux windows. As they are a "straight path" to the interior of the house they need to be alarmed if installed, and it's another point of entry. As i don't have them it was a moot point.

RS98 · 07-06-2019 12:04am

BattleCorp wrote: »

You don't have to take out the bolts unless it's a condition of your licence. It's just good practice - until you turn up at a competition 2 hours away from home and realise that you left your bolt at home in the other safe. That wasn't a fun day.

.....I may or may not have done this the first year I started shooting

RS98 · 07-06-2019 12:06am

Cass wrote: »

As Battlecorp said it was not made a condition of my licenses so there is no legal need to do it, but from habit i remove the bolts from the rifles and drop the bolt carrier out of the semi auto. I remove something, usually the bolt, from all my firearms so they are rendered useless.

As for Velux windows. As they are a "straight path" to the interior of the house they need to be alarmed if installed, and it's another point of entry. As i don't have them it was a moot point.

Ah I see. I'll be alarming the Velux windows so shouldn't be a problem. Should be all set now thanks for all yer help.

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