Directly Elected Mayor

fricatus · 24-05-2019 12:10pm

kuang1 wrote: »

How exactly are our concerns going to be represented at a National level?
I haven't seen this answered clearly at all.

A directly elected mayor, with a mandate from the electorate, will have much more pull when it comes to demanding meetings with senior civil servants on the issues that matter to us. If they get stonewalled, they can go on TV and local radio complaining that democracy is being ignored. They can address business and union conferences, make statements.

I could go on, but you get the idea! These are all things that mayors do elsewhere.

hardybuck · 24-05-2019 12:10pm

fricatus wrote: »

If that politician is chosen by all of us (not just by one area or through a pact), then I'm in favour of it. I don't think we'll elect a dope, or a monkey, or whatever you're having yourself, contrary to what some people think.

Michael Walsh does a great job, but the next guy or gal mightn't, so a democratic counter-balance is worthwhile. Also, a city manager is not a public figure who can stand up and complain about stuff on TV or at some national conference, in the way that a mayor with an individual democratic mandate can.

Disappointing BTW to see that this plebiscite will be the last of the four counts - apparently the boxes won't be opened until Monday morning!

In fairness to the selection process for public appointments, they've now extremely rigorous, especially for senior roles where they need to be assessed by occupational psychologists and thoroughly analysed.

If someone goes for a Mayoral role a person can be voted in without any of this. We have people who vote on party lines because of whatever side of the Civil War their great grandparents were on FFS.

The Council should work now because there is a regional spread of candidates, and there is a spread of candidates based on the Waterford public's political leanings. If you're a Sinn Fein supporter in Kilcohan chances are you'll have one of your people on the Council. If you're a FG person in the area you'll probably get on of your people in - they're all equal and everyone feels represented to an extent.

What'll have to happen here is one candidate to come along, to be more skilled than the excellent CEO, and one which everyone in Waterford county can be happy with, regardless of their political views. No pressure!

fricatus · 25-05-2019 10:09am

I wonder if they’ll be able to get a sense of which way this is going as they open the boxes. The actual count isn’t until Monday IIRC.

Harry Palmr · 25-05-2019 10:28am

The chit chat commentary in the media suggests Waterford says no and that in all three constituencies the reaction has been lukewarm at best.

friendlyfun · 25-05-2019 11:25am

Ultimately I think it its a pity that this could be defeated. Think it would be a great democratic exercise to elect a mayor.

kuang1 · 25-05-2019 1:17pm

fricatus wrote: »

A directly elected mayor, with a mandate from the electorate, will have much more pull when it comes to demanding meetings with senior civil servants on the issues that matter to us. If they get stonewalled, they can go on TV and local radio complaining that democracy is being ignored. They can address business and union conferences, make statements.

I could go on, but you get the idea! These are all things that mayors do elsewhere.

No. You see, this cannot be known now.

This is what you (and me for what it's worth) hope for. But would it come to pass?

I don't think so. I think if we fast forward in time (and were we to vote yes on the mayor issue) we could have a new thread in Waterford boards about the ineffectiveness of our mayor.

What I've just said is a supposition, as is your post.

Harry Palmr · 27-05-2019 11:04am

All boxes are opened and "tallies" say it's a bust for the proposal. If so no one can be shocked - they never sold it to the public with any conviction and the very basis of the role was never anything more than

Vote for Mayor
?
Profit

hardybuck · 27-05-2019 11:12am

Harry Palmr wrote: »

All boxes are opened and "tallies" say it's a bust for the proposal. If so no one can be shocked - they never sold it to the public with any conviction and the very basis of the role was never anything more than

Vote for Mayor
?
Profit

Ingrid Miley is reporting that it's too close to call at the moment.

Harry Palmr · 27-05-2019 11:27am

Cork

https://twitter.com/RedFMNews/status/1132949361971924993

no word on Limerick yet

Christy Browne · 27-05-2019 12:54pm

https://twitter.com/dhurleyll/status/1132976450083147776?s=21

And we’re sitting on the sideline yet again....

Jamie2k9 · 27-05-2019 1:21pm

So No by 719 votes.

JohnC. · 27-05-2019 1:22pm

It failed. 719 votes in it. 22437 to 21718

Jamie2k9 · 27-05-2019 1:25pm

Yes in Cork ahead by 200 with one final batch to be counted.

Linerick yess by around 4,000.

JohnC. · 27-05-2019 1:30pm

Limerick have passed it. It’ll be interesting to see how it works out for those who have and those who have not.

Max Powers · 27-05-2019 1:40pm

I was confident this would happen, reason being Cork and Limerick are booming and that transfers into positivity in general.

Harry Palmr · 27-05-2019 1:42pm

Cork passing by around 200+/- a few suggests they need to work on their "boom"

Gardner · 27-05-2019 1:47pm

left behind again. give it about 5 years come the next local election and there will be a outcry from the city cllrs for a second vote when they see the benefits Cork and Limerick have achieved.

fricatus · 27-05-2019 1:49pm

This is the worst of all outcomes really, if Cork join Limerick in voting yes, and with us confirmed as voting against. I fear we've shot ourselves in the foot. Here was a real chance to put ourselves identifiably in the big league of Irish cities and we've decided to stay put in Junior B

Maybe I'll turn out to be wrong. Cork will vote for Roy Keane's dog, and Limerick will vote for someone with a plastic bag on his head, they'll be ridiculed, and we'll all go back to the old system. One can only hope.

hardybuck · 27-05-2019 2:00pm

fricatus wrote: »

This is the worst of all outcomes really, if Cork join Limerick in voting yes, and with us confirmed as voting against. I fear we've shot ourselves in the foot. Here was a real chance to put ourselves identifiably in the big league of Irish cities and we've decided to stay put in Junior B

Maybe I'll turn out to be wrong. Cork will vote for Roy Keane's dog, and Limerick will vote for someone with a plastic bag on his head, they'll be ridiculed, and we'll all go back to the old system. One can only hope.

Michael Martin has described the plebiscite in Cork as a 'shambolic mess'.

Here's another angle. Waterford, along with Galway and Dublin, can observe Limerick and possibly Cork to see how they get on with this.

Galway, and maybe Dublin, will have their say on the matter. Should it be seen to be working Waterford could be asked again.

Max Powers · 27-05-2019 2:06pm

hardybuck wrote: »

Michael Martin has described the plebiscite in Cork as a 'shambolic mess'.

Here's another angle. Waterford, along with Galway and Dublin, can observe Limerick and possibly Cork to see how they get on with this.

Galway, and maybe Dublin, will have their say on the matter. Should it be seen to be working Waterford could be asked again.

True. At end of day, as it stands, this mayor was not going to suddenly change our fortunes, investment and jobs to cork/limerick levels so to say this will be the reason we will continue to be underfunded, resourced etc is ridiculous. See how it goes now and then maybe look at it again. I voted for it BTW.

Deise Vu · 27-05-2019 2:29pm

We were basically asked to vote for an extra unidentified politician with unidentified powers to overrule probably our best City / County Manager ever. The wonder is that it only failed by 700 votes.

Jamie2k9 · 27-05-2019 3:33pm

No ahead by 1000 votes in Cork, last few to count.

No for Cork by 982 votes.

Harry Palmr · 27-05-2019 3:48pm

It's done.

https://twitter.com/corkcitycouncil/status/1133020405395021824

So two out of three reject it albeit by few enough votes in the end. I expect Limerick will be told it's all off for now and it'll get put through the Citizens Assembly sausage machine to be redrafted and relaunched in 2020.

fricatus · 27-05-2019 3:54pm

Harry Palmr wrote: »

It's done.

https://twitter.com/corkcitycouncil/status/1133020405395021824

So two out of three reject it albeit by few enough votes in the end. I expect Limerick will be told it's all off for now and it'll get put through the Citizens Assembly sausage machine to be redrafted and relaunched in 2020.

Must say I'm feeling relieved at this... if Cork had voted yes, I could have seen them and Limerick going ahead and making a success of it, with Waterford being left behind.

With Cork rejecting it, it's more likely now that they'll go back to the drawing board and produce a better plan (or sell the existing one better) next time.

Jamie2k9 · 27-05-2019 4:47pm

Leo says its going ahead in Limerick and Dublin is next.

Deise Vu · 27-05-2019 4:50pm

Jamie2k9 wrote: »

Leo says its going ahead in Limerick and Dublin is next.

That's great. We get to see the pig out of the poke and with Cork saying no also, we are guaranteed a second vote if it's a success.

Dunmoreroader · 27-05-2019 8:33pm

Can someone tell me was this voted on by the entire City & County or just City only i.e. the 3 metropolitan wards?

Max Powers · 27-05-2019 8:35pm

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Can someone tell me was this voted on by the entire City & County or just City only i.e. the 3 metropolitan wards?

Entire county and city

fricatus · 27-05-2019 8:41pm

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Can someone tell me was this voted on by the entire City & County or just City only i.e. the 3 metropolitan wards?

Max Powers wrote: »

Entire county and city

It will be interesting to see the breakdown. Is it available anywhere?

Dunmoreroader · 27-05-2019 10:54pm

Max Powers wrote: »

Entire county and city

What about Cork; City only or county too?

Jamie2k9 · 27-05-2019 11:29pm

Max Powers wrote: »

Entire county and city

Which I only learned at the ballot box, assumed it was just for the city so didn't look into it any further.

What about Cork; City only or county too?

City only as both City and County are not merged like Waterford/Limerick.

Max Powers · 28-05-2019 8:36am

So two people have admitted they didnt know the vote for directly elected mayor involved city and county. Im surprised and a bit worried by that.one could say it was poorly communicated, on the other hand,a bit of basic engagement from the public is needed too.

Dunmoreroader · 28-05-2019 12:35pm

Well my reason for asking obviously shows that I didn't know but a lot didn't even know what the whole point of the exercise was, a lot didn't know there was a vote on it so that's on the government not the voters.
But my reason for asking is more about this; this whole idea of directly elected Mayors was, I thought, about developing the 5 cities, engines for regional growth, critical mass, Ireland 2040(or whatever it's called)etc. etc.
So why in Cork was it voted on by those directly affected i.e. the citizens of Cork city, not Bantry, Mallow, Mitchelstown or Youghal but in Waterford, people from Dungarvan, Lismore, Ballymacarbery etc. got their spake when for them it was probably seen as just an additional cost with nothing in it for them. If directly elected mayors are about 'Bigging' up the cities, I can't see anyone in Dungarvan being in favour as i think it would be seen as a further diminution of their town's status in the pecking order following the merger of county and city councils and abolition of town councils, no?
I mean the whole message was woolly with Fine Gael's little posters advocating "Your county, your mayor" - no mention of 'City'!
Why wasn't there a vote in Dublin and Galway also?
The whole thing was half-cocked. IMO.

beazee · 28-05-2019 12:42pm

Deise Vu wrote: »

We were basically asked to vote for an extra unidentified politician with unidentified powers to overrule probably our best City / County Manager ever. The wonder is that it only failed by 700 votes.

Here's how Mary Roche put it:

"It's not a perfect proposal by any means but it is a start and I would hope if it is voted through it would lead to more devolved authority from Central government to councils.

Chief Executives - excellent and all as ours is - do not really challenge central government. As public servants they are in fact, agents of that very government.

A directly elected mayor would be an agent of the people - to challenge central government."
https://www.facebook.com/cllrmaryroche/posts/10218691766866300

Max Powers · 28-05-2019 1:41pm

Dunmoreroader wrote: »

Well my reason for asking obviously shows that I didn't know but a lot didn't even know what the whole point of the exercise was, a lot didn't know there was a vote on it so that's on the government not the voters.
But my reason for asking is more about this; this whole idea of directly elected Mayors was, I thought, about developing the 5 cities, engines for regional growth, critical mass, Ireland 2040(or whatever it's called)etc. etc.
So why in Cork was it voted on by those directly affected i.e. the citizens of Cork city, not Bantry, Mallow, Mitchelstown or Youghal but in Waterford, people from Dungarvan, Lismore, Ballymacarbery etc. got their spake when for them it was probably seen as just an additional cost with nothing in it for them. If directly elected mayors are about 'Bigging' up the cities, I can't see anyone in Dungarvan being in favour as i think it would be seen as a further diminution of their town's status in the pecking order following the merger of county and city councils and abolition of town councils, no?
I mean the whole message was woolly with Fine Gael's little posters advocating "Your county, your mayor" - no mention of 'City'!
Why wasn't there a vote in Dublin and Galway also?
The whole thing was half-cocked. IMO.

Dublin and galway next for vote apparently.galway not included this time as I think they merging councils probably in a year or so. Cork city council separate to cork county and they have little plans to merge soon. I'm not saying it was communicated greatly but a little bit of engagement from people is needed too to be fair, that involves actively seeking out information (from proper news sources). The your county, your mayor posters I thought were a fairly obvious indication, this is for all of county. If people in any town or village in the county are not interested in something that could improve their city/county then they definitely need to look at themselves, even if they viewed it as more ofa city thing, its all of our city.

Harry Palmr · 28-05-2019 1:44pm

Leo Varadkar's tweet last evening reeked of "see ya later losers" to me. The whole thing needs reappraisal not ploughing on with regardless.

Directly Elected Mayor

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