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Directly Elected Mayor

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  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,220 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cabaal


    robtri wrote: »
    I dont see what a directly elected Mayor will do for the city
    the new mayor is just assuming powers from the city Manager and such, powers that already exist here in the City.

    As the role will elected on a four year cycle it will be a very populous run office, a lot of the hard decisions will be pushed out as the new mayor wont want to upset his voters and loose his job come next election.

    where will the money come from? probably from the city coffers, so what services will be cut to pay for this role?

    just not sure the benefit to the city is..

    and doing it because the other cities are ... is the most ridiculous argument yet

    but.but....they'll have a gold chain and stuff
    :D

    It seems shiny things distract some people easily.
    I'd certainly agree with your points,


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭ Max Powers


    A new mayors policies I think would need to be approved by existing councillors, I suppose this is a bit of fail safe on a nutter trying to introduce crazy stuff.


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,031 ✭✭✭ hardybuck


    I'm really surprised, and slightly worried, with the lack of national debate about this topic, along with the divorce question.

    I wonder if this is a result of:

    - Reform fatigue - think of the massive job involved in the recent referenda

    - Brexit - this has absorbed so much time and energy that these issues would have taken much more prominence in other years


  • Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭ 91wx763


    Max Powers wrote: »
    https://www.irishexaminer.com/breakingnews/views/ourview/directly-elected-mayors-the-case-has-not-been-made-922248.html

    Good article above, it didnt work in England, see hartlepool example as an extreme sample of what can go wrong.
    Take a punt on something that has not been defined and what specifics there are indicate no major advantages (taking from CEO or just another layer).some I think are hoping that it could all be great in the end but you would not take such a chance with your own personal important stuff. Some of the quotes in article from government... 'unclear', etc are worrying.the cost..no faith that govt would maintain any extra money after first mayor, 2.5m over 5 years we don't have. If say limerick went for it and it actually worked, maybe we could then go for it, who knows.one thing that could be a positive is (not sure) is that any policy this mayor tried to introduce might need councillors approval, I don't think he/she could dictate, that begs question though, what the f will they do.
    I'm disappointed that the Cork Examiner picked that one instance that turned into farce. Google Hartlepool and monkey. I've been there and it is decrepit, no future for people after the coal and industry finished.



    Where in Waterford (despite what some here think and I am a Wexford man) there is a big future. Do it. It's a pity that the incumbent councillors who are feeling the heat can't man/woman up and make a compromise. Place has had feck all since that big bridge and Martina Cullen. Get a grip. My bridge to New Ross is nearly finished, Waterford has had feck all for ages. Now there's a chance.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,560 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    91wx763 wrote:
    Where in Waterford (despite what some here think and I am a Wexford man) there is a big future. Do it. It's a pity that the incumbent councillors who are feeling the heat can't man/woman up and make a compromise. Place has had feck all since that big bridge and Martina Cullen. Get a grip. My bridge to New Ross is nearly finished, Waterford has had feck all for ages. Now there's a chance.


    Will you be charging much for the use of your bridge?


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  • Moderators, Technology & Internet Moderators, Regional South East Moderators Posts: 28,220 Mod ✭✭✭✭ Cabaal


    hardybuck wrote: »
    I'm really surprised, and slightly worried, with the lack of national debate about this topic, along with the divorce question.

    Re divorce, nobody is hard lobbying about divorce for two reasons

    1. They know it'll pass and rightly so
    2. Even the religious fruitloops know they would be fighting a battle they can't win if they publically oppose it, they've already wasted tonnes of money on marriage and repeal refs


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭ Max Powers


    hardybuck wrote: »
    I'm really surprised, and slightly worried, with the lack of national debate about this topic, along with the divorce question.

    I wonder if this is a result of:

    - Reform fatigue - think of the massive job involved in the recent referenda

    - Brexit - this has absorbed so much time and energy that these issues would have taken much more prominence in other years

    Public info and questions event on last night in tower hotel. It was poorly enough attended which is a sign of public engagement. it was advertised. I'm slightly more positive on it now, the cost is still a big issue for me, anything from 1.3 to 2.5m for five years of mayor.
    Mayor program would need to be approved by councillors.
    Councillors can and public can with 20% of county signatures eject the mayor.
    There was no real big and clear thing that says, the elected mayor could do X which would be of massive benefit to Waterford, its kind of a leap of faith that it could be.
    It would mean removal of silly season stuff we have now of two mayors and deputy. However, the elected mayor could appoint a deputy, not sure, don't think there will be increased salary for deputy.
    Like a lot of this, there are grey areas where certain things have not been considered yet.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,086 ✭✭✭✭ Harry Palmr


    There was no real big and clear thing that says, the elected mayor could do X which would be of massive benefit to Waterford, its kind of a leap of faith that it could be.

    As I expected to be honest. I can't find a compelling argument for the role. Was there a Q & A and if so what was the tone, positive or sceptical?


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,560 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    Max Powers wrote: »
    Public info and questions event on last night in tower hotel. It was poorly enough attended which is a sign of public engagement. it was advertised. I'm slightly more positive on it now, the cost is still a big issue for me, anything from 1.3 to 2.5m for five years of mayor.
    Mayor program would need to be approved by councillors.
    Councillors can and public can with 20% of county signatures eject the mayor.
    There was no real big and clear thing that says, the elected mayor could do X which would be of massive benefit to Waterford, its kind of a leap of faith that it could be.
    It would mean removal of silly season stuff we have now of two mayors and deputy. However, the elected mayor could appoint a deputy, not sure, don't think there will be increased salary for deputy.
    Like a lot of this, there are grey areas where certain things have not been considered yet.

    would have liked to have attended myself


  • Registered Users Posts: 5,031 ✭✭✭ hardybuck


    Cabaal wrote: »
    Re divorce, nobody is hard lobbying about divorce for two reasons

    1. They know it'll pass and rightly so
    2. Even the religious fruitloops know they would be fighting a battle they can't win if they publically oppose it, they've already wasted tonnes of money on marriage and repeal refs

    While I think there is probably fairly broad agreement within society that four years is too long, the referendum doesn't give the public an opportunity to have their say on how long might be appropriate.

    A Yes outcome will give the Oireachtas full automony to decide how long on the public's behalf. As long as people are aware of that and are happy with that - no problems whatsoever. Are people aware of that, or are they thinking a vote for yes equals two years?

    Poor awareness equals poor decision making.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭ Max Powers


    As I expected to be honest. I can't find a compelling argument for the role. Was there a Q & A and if so what was the tone, positive or sceptical?

    Was questions yes. I suppose like all these things some people are there to give out, including one nutter who had a problem with being asked to put his phone on silent, unbelievable.in general, tone was a bit sceptical, what else would you expect, no one would go if they were 100% made up behind it. It was respectable though in the main. Sad to see very few younger people at it, I mean people under say 40 years old.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,086 ✭✭✭✭ Harry Palmr


    There's always one nutter! I take your point about the self-selecting cohort, I probably should have added something about constructive engagement with the idea or not


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,511 ✭✭✭ Max Powers


    There's always one nutter! I take your point about the self-selecting cohort, I probably should have added something about constructive engagement with the idea or not

    Yeah, to be fair, people were engaged, I'd say most went along to learn a bit more, like myself


  • Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭ Gillman1998


    Max Powers wrote: »
    Public info and questions event on last night in tower hotel. It was poorly enough attended which is a sign of public engagement. it was advertised. I'm slightly more positive on it now, the cost is still a big issue for me, anything from 1.3 to 2.5m for five years of mayor.
    Mayor program would need to be approved by councillors.
    Councillors can and public can with 20% of county signatures eject the mayor.
    There was no real big and clear thing that says, the elected mayor could do X which would be of massive benefit to Waterford, its kind of a leap of faith that it could be.
    It would mean removal of silly season stuff we have now of two mayors and deputy. However, the elected mayor could appoint a deputy, not sure, don't think there will be increased salary for deputy.
    Like a lot of this, there are grey areas where certain things have not been considered yet.

    Thanks Max, I couldn’t be there but perhaps you picked up on one point. My understanding is that the elected Mayor would not need a majority to pass budgets etc, was this mentioned at all?


  • Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭ 91wx763


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    91wx763 wrote:
    Where in Waterford (despite what some here think and I am a Wexford man) there is a big future. Do it. It's a pity that the incumbent councillors who are feeling the heat can't man/woman up and make a compromise. Place has had feck all since that big bridge and Martina Cullen. Get a grip. My bridge to New Ross is nearly finished, Waterford has had feck all for ages. Now there's a chance.


    Will you be charging much for the use of your bridge?
    "The road will be toll free, as will the Enniscorthy to Gorey bypass."

    https://www.google.com/url?sa=i&source=web&cd=&ved=2ahUKEwi5hpSFkabiAhWQA2MBHWNsA5EQzPwBegQIARAC&url=https://www.independent.ie/regionals/newrossstandard/news/new-barrow-bridge-will-be-a-tourist-attraction-36672570.html&psig=AOvVaw2W_nCOWjgVEFNdOnOqopkE&ust=1558305109218000


  • Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭ 91wx763


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    91wx763 wrote:
    Where in Waterford (despite what some here think and I am a Wexford man) there is a big future. Do it. It's a pity that the incumbent councillors who are feeling the heat can't man/woman up and make a compromise. Place has had feck all since that big bridge and Martina Cullen. Get a grip. My bridge to New Ross is nearly finished, Waterford has had feck all for ages. Now there's a chance.


    Will you be charging much for the use of your bridge?
    "The road will be toll free, as will the Enniscorthy to Gorey bypass"
    https://www.independent.ie/regionals/newrossstandard/news/new-barrow-bridge-will-be-a-tourist-attraction-36672570.html


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,086 ✭✭✭✭ Harry Palmr


    Being discussed on WLR right now with Paudy Coffee, plenty of scepticism about the role on the text feed - essentially reflecting the view here - why split powers from the county manager.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 159 ✭✭ IspeakcozIcan


    Discussion with Mary Roche and Dr. Michael Tiernan discussing directly elected mayors on Morning Ireland this morning in Waterford.

    I really like Mary Roche I have to say. It's such a pity she is not running again.

    https://soundcloud.com/morning-ireland/a-debate-from-waterford-on-directly-elected-mayors

    Hoping this passes, but I'm feeling it won't. A lot of my friends feel very strongly about the money, which to me is a non-issue.


  • Registered Users Posts: 183 ✭✭ Gillman1998


    Discussion with Mary Roche and Dr. Michael Tiernan discussing directly elected mayors on Morning Ireland this morning in Waterford.

    I really like Mary Roche I have to say. It's such a pity she is not running again.

    https://soundcloud.com/morning-ireland/a-debate-from-waterford-on-directly-elected-mayors

    Hoping this passes, but I'm feeling it won't. A lot of my friends feel very strongly about the money, which to me is a non-issue.

    Dermot Keyes was saying today on Twitter that the extra costs are being covered by central government, who knows anymore? I’ll vote in favour of it.


  • Registered Users Posts: 907 ✭✭✭ coastwatch


    The estimated cost of a directly elected Mayor for Waterford is €450k per annum,
    (Cork €345k, Limerick €430k).

    The cost to be met by Waterford City and County Council's resources
    (Page 5 of Guide to Plebiscite.. delivered to households).
    How is the additional income to pay for it to be raised, commercial rates, property tax, parking charges?

    See FAQ in link for breakdown of costs
    https://www.housing.gov.ie/local-government/voting/plebiscites-directly-elected-mayors-frequently-asked-questions


    It's a luxury Waterford can do without for now.

    It's a No from me.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 375 ✭✭ invara


    coastwatch wrote: »
    The estimated cost of a directly elected Mayor for Waterford is €450k per annum,
    (Cork €345k, Limerick €430k).

    The cost to be met by Waterford City and County Council's resources
    (Page 5 of Guide to Plebiscite.. delivered to households).
    How is the additional income to pay for it to be raised, commercial rates, property tax, parking charges?

    See FAQ in link for breakdown of costs
    https://www.housing.gov.ie/local-government/voting/plebiscites-directly-elected-mayors-frequently-asked-questions


    It's a luxury Waterford can do without for now.

    It's a No from me.

    Today, on Deise Fm WLR Simon Convey said explicitly that no additional cost would fall on the council as the extra costs would be covered by the €10m Local Govt Reform Fund. If money is your only concern he could not be clearer. The plebiscite is not binding, and if it goes through we will have a mayor to push urban services (hospital, higher education, airport, ports, roads etc....), to push for the things we need and current politics cannot deliver.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,075 ✭✭✭ kuang1


    invara wrote: »
    ... to push for the things we need and current politics cannot deliver.

    Yeah, see, this part I don't buy.
    I've seen/heard/read nothing to persuade me that a publicly elected mayor will have any worthwhile NEW political clout.
    It's frequently implied, but almost like a nod or a wink.

    It's a no for me.


  • Registered Users Posts: 871 ✭✭✭ Captain Red Beard


    So keep things the same but expect different results? The definition of insanity as Einstein posters say.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,560 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    So keep things the same but expect different results? The definition of insanity as Einstein posters say.


    I completely agree with this statement, radical change is needed for things to change, but its important to realise such changes may also have negative effects, but sometimes they're worth it, its a yes for me, but I suspect the outcome will be a no. Get out voting folks


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,075 ✭✭✭ kuang1


    So keep things the same but expect different results? The definition of insanity as Einstein posters say.

    And you'd be content to waste our resources by loading our guns with blanks?

    Please.


  • Registered Users Posts: 26,560 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    kuang1 wrote: »
    And you'd be content to waste our resources by loading our guns with blanks?

    Please.

    what resources are being wasted?


  • Registered Users Posts: 2,629 ✭✭✭ Bards


    kuang1 wrote: »
    So keep things the same but expect different results? The definition of insanity as Einstein posters say.

    And you'd be content to waste our resources by loading our guns with blanks?

    Please.
    Suggest something else then


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,075 ✭✭✭ kuang1


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    what resources are being wasted?

    I'll save us both some time: let's pretend there's no new cost financially to having a mayor.

    The resources that would still be wasted would be:
    Posters and pamphlets printed in their thousands, radio air time, newspaper column inches, canvassing (the immeasurable human effort by candidates and their teams time-wise and energy-wise, the petrol/diesel of ferrying these people around)...

    All of these resources (especially the human ones) could be applied to other endeavours in the political scene that would be more fruitful.(e.g. A general election.)


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,075 ✭✭✭ kuang1


    Bards wrote: »
    Suggest something else then

    Done.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 26,560 ✭✭✭✭ Wanderer78


    kuang1 wrote: »
    I'll save us both some time: let's pretend there's no new cost financially to having a mayor.

    The resources that would still be wasted would be:
    Posters and pamphlets printed in their thousands, radio air time, newspaper column inches, canvassing (the immeasurable human effort by candidates and their teams time-wise and energy-wise, the petrol/diesel of ferrying these people around)...

    All of these resources (especially the human ones) could be applied to other endeavours in the political scene that would be more fruitful.(e.g. A general election.)

    fair points, but if we had a democratically elected mayor, would that not make our political system more democratic?


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