Government Spending [See post 106]

ted1 · 24-05-2019 1:44am #1

After 22 years of voting FG my vote is lost.
I went FG original aS I grew up beside a FG minister who I have the up most respect for and who was like a second father to me
But since they have come to power I have been totally disillusioned by them.

The three things which stand out are:

1.) the 3 bn on rural broadband despite all advice against it.

2.) the cancellation of metro south despite the FG lite minister being from south Dublin

3.) Marie Bailey and her 60k swinging action

These are what stand out despite no change in planning laws since the apple in Galway cock up.

The inability of Harris and Murphy. The lack of additional prison spaces.

The lack in tackling excessive insurance pay outs

As a middle income earner insurance is huge cost.
Life insurance for mortgage : 250
House insurance : 350
Car insurance : 650 *2. ( wife and me )
Health insurance 2500 ( 2 adults three kids)

4050 or 8100 of my income before tax on insurance !!!

Unlike those in welfare GP and prescriptions are extra.

How can anyone justify voting for FG?

LuckyLloyd · 24-05-2019 2:54am

This is not a general election. It is a European / Local election.

How is FG representing Ireland on Brexit? How are their MEPs performing in Europe? Do you agree with the broad policy aims of the EPP in a pan European context?

What is the stance of your FG candidates on the specific issues in your local area?

These are the relevant considerations for tomorrow’s elections. I am most definitely not FG affiliated, for clarity.

troyzer · 24-05-2019 3:02am

Local elections are largely meaningless, councils have very little power. Your best bet is to honestly vote for the candidate who lives closest to you, they're more likely to actually listen to you when you complain about road surfacing, anti social behaviour etc. It's all they can really do. Ideological differences are largely irrelevant when they haven't got any control over policy. Councils are given X amount of money from the government along with a remit and told to get on with it. Much of the power even within the local authorities rests with the civil service

Voting for an Irish party when it comes to Europe is pointless. Nobody is going to come away with more than a handful of seats in a parliament of hundreds. You're voting for a European grouping and it needs to be seen that way.

All of the Fine Gael European candidates I've seen are against a European army but their EPP spitzenkandidat is Manfred Weber who will likely be the president of the next commission and who is very much in favour of a European army. Same with FF and Alde/Verhofstadt. The individual policies of the candidates are largely meaningless if they're part of an enormous, multi national bloc.

Examine the policies of their grouping.

A quick list:

Fine Gael = EPP
Fianna Fáil = Alde
Labour = S&Ds
Greens = Greens
Sinn Féin and most lefty independents = GUE/NGL

Roanmore · 24-05-2019 7:14am

Is Marie Bailey taking legal action FG policy now?

Wheeliebin30 · 24-05-2019 7:42am

How do people think this is a general election?

Sinn Fein hold the majority on DCC as it is.

That will happen again and people will think the tide has turned later?

L1011 · 24-05-2019 8:03am

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

How do people think this is a general election?

Sinn Fein hold the majority on DCC as it is.

That will happen again and people will think the tide has turned later?

SF are polling joint third in Dublin, with Labour, behind FF and FG and just ahead of the Greens. All are more transfer friendly. They didn't match their 2014 vote figures in 2016 and the polling is less favourable again. High profile departures like Noeleen Reilly have also happened

I would be surprised if they're the biggest party on DCC again

Wheeliebin30 · 24-05-2019 8:07am

L1011 wrote: »

SF are polling joint third in Dublin, with Labour, behind FF and FF and just ahead of the Greens. All are more transfer friendly. They didn't match their 2014 vote figures in 2016 and the polling is less favourable again. High profile departures like Noeleen Reilly have also happened

I would be surprised if they're the biggest party on DCC again

People think things will be different if FF and FG aren’t in the councils with most seats.

My point is it’s already been like that for 5 years.

NIMAN · 24-05-2019 8:08am

To be fair OP, we could list stuff like that about each political party.

stefanovich · 24-05-2019 8:20am

troyzer wrote: »

Local elections are largely meaningless, councils have very little power. Your best bet is to honestly vote for the candidate who lives closest to you, they're more likely to actually listen to you when you complain about road surfacing, anti social behaviour etc. It's all they can really do. Ideological differences are largely irrelevant when they haven't got any control over policy. Councils are given X amount of money from the government along with a remit and told to get on with it. Much of the power even within the local authorities rests with the civil service

Voting for an Irish party when it comes to Europe is pointless. Nobody is going to come away with more than a handful of seats in a parliament of hundreds. You're voting for a European grouping and it needs to be seen that way.

All of the Fine Gael European candidates I've seen are against a European army but their EPP spitzenkandidat is Manfred Weber who will likely be the president of the next commission and who is very much in favour of a European army. Same with FF and Alde/Verhofstadt. The individual policies of the candidates are largely meaningless if they're part of an enormous, multi national bloc.

Examine the policies of their grouping.

A quick list:

Fine Gael = EPP
Fianna Fáil = Alde
Labour = S&Ds
Greens = Greens
Sinn Féin and most lefty independents = GUE/NGL

And the anti EU vote? Dolores Cahill?

The Specialist · 24-05-2019 8:23am

Bit of a contradiction in the things you care about - Not happy for 3bn spending on broadband which will benefit a large amount of people, but bitter that a fancy underground train for Dublin got cancelled??

McMurphy · 24-05-2019 9:13am

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

How do people think this is a general election?

Sinn Fein hold the majority on DCC as it is.

That will happen again and people will think the tide has turned later?

You had better hope they retain that majority, because who else will you attempt to blame for the failures of Central government?

In other news.

Seems the defence forces including members of their families are voting against FG in protest at pay and conditions.

Defence Forces personnel voting against Fine Gael in protest over pay and conditions

Like the earlier presidential election, local elections offer people a reasonably safe platform to send a protest message to a government, without causing much knock on effect.

I haven't voted yet, but will probably be doing so in the next few hours, will have a leisurely stroll down to the local polling station with herself, possibly have a coffee or maybe even sit out and enjoy a beer on the way home (I like elections).

I haven't made my mind up yet on the locals, I will literally decide when I get to the polling booth.

Wheeliebin30 · 24-05-2019 9:16am

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

You had better hope they retain that majority, because who else will you attempt to blame for the failures of Central government?

In other news.

Seems the defence forces including members of their families are voting against FG in protest at pay and conditions.

Defence Forces personnel voting against Fine Gael in protest over pay and conditions

Like the earlier presidential election, local elections offer people a reasonably safe platform to send a protest message to a government, without causing much knock on effect.

I haven't voted yet, but will probably be doing so in the next few hours, will have a leisurely stroll down to the local polling station with herself, possibly have a coffee or maybe even sit out and enjoy a beer on the way home (I like elections).

I haven't made my mind up yet on the locals, I will literally decide when I get to the polling booth.

Early Friday beers.

I’m jealous:(

Your point proves how utterly useless local elections are.

A party gets the most seats but ultimately no responsibility.

McMurphy · 24-05-2019 9:34am

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Early Friday beers.

I’m jealous:(

Your point proves how utterly useless local elections are.

A party gets the most seats but ultimately no responsibility.

Don't be jealous, herself has a day off too, so will more than likely be coffee (plus doesn't look like beer/wine weather)

I like the posters suggestion up above about voting for the local lad, my local lad is prob less than a mile and a half from where I live, works extremely hard in the local area (not just a lad who appears at election time) and he's been on the local council repeatedly since 2011.

He's a FG candidate, and at the minute (although he never made an appearance at my house) he's probably getting my number one.

I like an independent in my area, she's been a solid worker since the last locals she's probably getting number 2.

Will do a bit of research on the rest before I set out.

Wheeliebin30 · 24-05-2019 9:49am

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Don't be jealous, herself has a day off too, so will more than likely be coffee (plus doesn't look like beer/wine weather)

I like the posters suggestion up above about voting for the local lad, my local lad is prob less than a mile and a half from where I live, works extremely hard in the local area (not just a lad who appears at election time) and he's been on the local council repeatedly since 2011.

He's a FG candidate, and at the minute (although he never made an appearance at my house) he's probably getting my number one.

I like an independent in my area, she's been a solid worker since the last locals she's probably getting number 2.

Will do a bit of research on the rest before I set out.

I’m shocked Johnny!!

McMurphy · 24-05-2019 9:54am

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

I’m shocked Johnny!!

At me having a rare day off?

Choosing coffee over beer?

Or voting for the best local candidates?

:

Wheeliebin30 · 24-05-2019 9:57am

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

At me having a rare day off?

Choosing coffee over beer?

Or voting for the best local candidates? :

:):)

Obviously the coffee over beer..

jester77 · 24-05-2019 9:59am

ted1 wrote: »

After 22 years of voting FG my vote is lost.
I went FG original aS I grew up beside a FG minister who I have the up most respect for and who was like a second father to me
But since they have come to power I have been totally disillusioned by them.

The three things which stand out are:

1.) the 3 bn on rural broadband despite all advice against it.

2.) the cancellation of metro south despite the FG lite minister being from south Dublin

3.) Marie Bailey and her 60k swinging action

These are what stand out despite no change in planning laws since the apple in Galway cock up.

The inability of Harris and Murphy. The lack of additional prison spaces.

The lack in tackling excessive insurance pay outs

As a middle income earner insurance is huge cost.
Life insurance for mortgage : 250
House insurance : 350
Car insurance : 650 *2. ( wife and me )
Health insurance 2500 ( 2 adults three kids)

4050 or 8100 of my income before tax on insurance !!!

Unlike those in welfare GP and prescriptions are extra.

How can anyone justify voting for FG?

I don't think you can blame the government for insurance costs, they are going up everywhere. I live in Germany, and my insurance costs for everything you listed there are higher for everything you listed, actually much higher in the case of health insurance. I pay well over 6k a year for myself, kids are extra and I have to cover the first €600 or €800 (can't remember as I thankfully never get close enough to have to make a claim) of costs each year before I can even make a claim.

Stoner · 24-05-2019 10:35am

ted1 wrote:

2.) the cancellation of metro south despite the FG lite minister being from south Dublin

Why is it an issue where the TD is from?

I see your other points, but are you suggesting that the Minister sould put where they are from before the overall interest of the country/party?

Isn't that the sort of thing that causes us so many problems already?

FreudianSlippers · 24-05-2019 10:40am

What we should be talking about is abolition of the councils and reform of the Seanad to replace them. It's ridiculous how many people we elect to these toothless positions in both. Let's do what was promised when we (correctly) retained the upper house of our government.

Quin_Dub · 24-05-2019 1:23pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

What we should be talking about is abolition of the councils and reform of the Seanad to replace them. It's ridiculous how many people we elect to these toothless positions in both. Let's do what was promised when we (correctly) retained the upper house of our government.

Absolutely..

Abolish the councils , then broadly speaking add an extra seat to every Dail constituency and beef up the Senate (proper direct elections for a start) with meaningful oversight.

RandomName2 · 24-05-2019 2:26pm

ted1 wrote: »

How can anyone justify voting for FG?

Because the alternative is

Fianna Fail, who do not still know why there was a financial crash.
Sinn Fein, a retirement home for terrorists, who play at being socialists while behaving like the Irish equivalent of Rednecks draped in Confederate flegs.
Labour, who, ironically, are all about screwing the little guy.
Loony left and right, who are pretty loony.
Oh can't forget about
Green Party, who are permanently detached from reality.

A party who don't know how to manage a budget, who have time and again thrown whistleblowers to the dogs, and always on call to kiss Juncker's four cheeks seem weirdly okay in comparison to all that.

nice_guy80 · 24-05-2019 2:29pm

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Absolutely..

Abolish the councils , then broadly speaking add an extra seat to every Dail constituency and beef up the Senate (proper direct elections for a start) with meaningful oversight.

we need more actual power devolved to local councils

we're the most centralised country in Europe with majority of decisions that affect us made in Dublin

average_runner · 24-05-2019 2:44pm

ted1 wrote: »

After 22 years of voting FG my vote is lost.
I went FG original aS I grew up beside a FG minister who I have the up most respect for and who was like a second father to me
But since they have come to power I have been totally disillusioned by them.

The three things which stand out are:

1.) the 3 bn on rural broadband despite all advice against it.

2.) the cancellation of metro south despite the FG lite minister being from south Dublin

3.) Marie Bailey and her 60k swinging action

These are what stand out despite no change in planning laws since the apple in Galway cock up.

The inability of Harris and Murphy. The lack of additional prison spaces.

The lack in tackling excessive insurance pay outs

As a middle income earner insurance is huge cost.
Life insurance for mortgage : 250
House insurance : 350
Car insurance : 650 *2. ( wife and me )
Health insurance 2500 ( 2 adults three kids)

4050 or 8100 of my income before tax on insurance !!!

Unlike those in welfare GP and prescriptions are extra.

How can anyone justify voting for FG?

You have a luas on the southside, there is alot of parts of Dublin with no light rail system. Cancelling metro south was correct thing to do

johnnyskeleton · 24-05-2019 3:29pm

Its hard to be inspired by any politicians at the moment. Ireland is at least lucky that we havent had the rise of extrwmists or populists on either side.

As to why to vote FG, the general sense seems to be that there is no real alternative. That is a depressingly bad way for the world to be - that we just accept what we have and feel powerless to change.

But, the change that the people of the UK, Germany etc want is much worse than ordinary incompetence and greed.

ted1 · 24-05-2019 3:40pm

The Specialist wrote: »

Bit of a contradiction in the things you care about - Not happy for 3bn spending on broadband which will benefit a large amount of people, but bitter that a fancy underground train for Dublin got cancelled??

The 3bn is being spent on few people, many of who purchased cheap plots to build one of housing in rural locations the tax payer shouldn’t pick up their tab. They have being advised agasinest it by their own department and the states largest telcos.

The metro upgrade was planned and allowed for when the LUAS was built and would only cost about 50m and will be used by more people than live in rural Ireland in a daily basis. It’ll lower carbon emissions by displacing cars and thus pay fir itself quickly. It also allows for expansion of Dublin housing stick by making the city more accessible.

ted1 · 24-05-2019 3:42pm

Stoner wrote: »

Why is it an issue where the TD is from?

I see your other points, but are you suggesting that the Minister sould put where they are from before the overall interest of the country/party?

Isn't that the sort of thing that causes us so many problems already?

The TD is meant to look after his area. The TD from south Dublin is the minister. He is A TD first.

average_runner · 24-05-2019 3:57pm

ted1 wrote: »

The TD is meant to look after his area. The TD from south Dublin is the minister. He is A TD first.

No a TD job is to look after the national interest and not the area they are from.

The Councillor looks after local issues, TD looks after national issues

TD's doing local politics is what has this country where it is

cruizer101 · 24-05-2019 4:02pm

ted1 wrote: »

The TD is meant to look after his area. The TD from south Dublin is the minister. He is A TD first.

TD's shouldn't really be looking after their area they should be doing what is best for the country as a whole.

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Abolish the councils , then broadly speaking add an extra seat to every Dail constituency and beef up the Senate (proper direct elections for a start) with meaningful oversight.

I'd be thinking the opposite, give the councils more power (maybe reduce the number a bit) and reduce the number of TD's (potentially bigger constituencies also).

TD should worry about national issue councilors about local issues.

ted1 · 24-05-2019 4:06pm

average_runner wrote: »

You have a luas on the southside, there is alot of parts of Dublin with no light rail system. Cancelling metro south was correct thing to do

The LUAS is at capacity, and it was built to be upgraded. They have built and are building thousands more on the understanding it was getting an upgrade. There will be an extra 30,000 + people living in Cherrywood alone.

average_runner · 24-05-2019 4:10pm

ted1 wrote: »

The LUAS is at capacity, and it was built to be upgraded. They have built and are building thousands more on the understanding it was getting an upgrade. There will be an extra 30,000 + people living in Cherrywood alone.

And there is alot more living out on the westside of Dublin and bigger developments going ahead than Cherrywood.

ted1 · 24-05-2019 4:22pm

average_runner wrote: »

And there is alot more living out on the westside of Dublin and bigger developments going ahead than Cherrywood.

And could they upgrade to a metro for only 50 Million?

average_runner · 24-05-2019 5:09pm

ted1 wrote: »

And could they upgrade to a metro for only 50 Million?

If you really believe it would cost 50m, you are living in dream land!!!

blanch152 · 24-05-2019 5:32pm

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Its hard to be inspired by any politicians at the moment. Ireland is at least lucky that we havent had the rise of extrwmists or populists on either side.

As to why to vote FG, the general sense seems to be that there is no real alternative. That is a depressingly bad way for the world to be - that we just accept what we have and feel powerless to change.

But, the change that the people of the UK, Germany etc want is much worse than ordinary incompetence and greed.

I wouldn't be so sanguine about the extremes.

We are seeing the emergence of Aontu as a deeply conservative party with unknown economic policies and 1930s social policies.

On the other side of the spectrum, we don't have the radical burn-it-all-down type parties, but we do have our fair share of parties and politicians who believe we can tax unicorns and rainbows to pay for everything.

The parties in the middle are failing, but not to the extent that they have done in UK or rest of Europe.

titan18 · 24-05-2019 5:45pm

I just voted and based both off parties or candidates I'd like to see more of. In reality, neither vote matters as it's larger blocs in Europe and councils are powerless but I'd rather give Greens, Social Democrats, Direct Democracy Ireland a boost by giving them a vote. Can only see the Green candidate potentially getting in out of the ones I voted for but at least might help to make a steer in national decisions if there's enough voters across all districts for them.

26-05-2019 3:07pm

ted1 wrote: »

As a middle income earner insurance is huge cost.
Life insurance for mortgage : 250
House insurance : 350
Car insurance : 650 *2. ( wife and me )
Health insurance 2500 ( 2 adults three kids)

4050 or 8100 of my income before tax on insurance !!!

Unlike those in welfare GP and prescriptions are extra.

How can anyone justify voting for FG?

I agree. The thing I'm most interested in there, though, is where you're getting mortgage protection for €250! That's a great price (or you must have a very small mortgage). You're being screwed with the car insurance so shop around - I got a fantastic comprehensive price off Blue insurance for two years for about €650 (i.e. €325 per year). Bank of Ireland Motor insurance this year was much cheaper than most (Blue went up this year), and their house insurance was also cheaper -you got a further discount if you had an existing BofI insurance policy. Your health insurance seems OK, but I'd still be shopping around. :pac:

PS: Remember you shouldn't be paying more than €134 per month for your pharmacy prescriptions. The government pays the rest (just stay with the one pharmacy).

James Brown · 27-05-2019 2:13pm

troyzer wrote: »

Local elections are largely meaningless, councils have very little power....

They are single handily responsible for either the housing crisis or not taking the FG government to task, depending on which Fine Gael supporter, or 'better the devil you know' Fine Gael voter you're talking to.

Roanmore wrote: »

Is Marie Bailey taking legal action FG policy now?

It's an inside look at the caliber of the party members, despite supposed party no nonsense claim/fiscal conservatism spin. A party is the sum of it's membership.

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Absolutely..

Abolish the councils , then broadly speaking add an extra seat to every Dail constituency and beef up the Senate (proper direct elections for a start) with meaningful oversight.

Councils are they only democratic alternative to state government. The Seanad is a joke and should be dismantled. Do we think, 'seagulls losing the run of themselves' and 'ice cream trucks being too loud' are the quality people we need looking after issues?
The councils, like many other things need to be fit for purpose and in some areas re-designed as such. We would need replace them with same. We could not function without them. Look at Irish Water, we took responsibility off the LA's only to have a quango use the LA's to carry out the same works they had been doing. The same would happen across the board if we dispensed with councils.

Asitis2019 · 22-10-2019 8:47pm

Day X In Hospital

"You're looking well today, you will be able to go home today"
"Oh really...I just had a heart attack/stroke/hip replacement yesterday"
"Oh, think nothing of it sir...you can attend your primary care centre. The public health nurse will visit you daily. Please don't worry sir. We have a great treatment plan for you. "
"That's Greeeattttt"

Two days later

Ring, ring
"I've just spent two days trying to get through to the centre"
"Oh, we don't have a receptionist and we cut the lines off at 3pm"
"well, can I see the public health nurse"
"Do you have a referral"
"What, well they told me to come here"
"No, you need a referral, contact the hospital. yeah"

Calls the hospital

Ring, ring; voice message from some authoritative sounding female lacking authority; ring, ring, etc etc; another voice message from another authoritative sounding female lacking authority

Several hours later

"What do you want...I mean, how can I help you"
"I need a "refer all" for x, y, z"
"Well, I can't do that. That would be the consultant, you'll have to call his secretary "
"Do you have his/her number"
"Sighs...yes, its.... "

Ring, ring; voice message from some authoritative sounding female lacking authority.
"Beep..."
"Hi, I'm looking for a referral.."

Several days later
Authoritative female calls
"I'm returning your call, what do you want...I mean, how can I help you?"
"I'm looking for a referral for..."
"Oh, didn't they do that...no...sounds unsurprised...okay leave it with me..."

Several days later
Referral arrives (maybe, maybe not, 50-50)
Ring, ring; engaged; voice message
"What"
"Did you get my referral, please"
"Oh, I will look and call you back. We don't have any systems, or software. "

Several hours later
"Yeah, you will have to wait a couple of weeks for that. She is very busy. Also, you will need to come in. After 9.30am. Before 4pm. Cos we don't work past then. Ya know how it is"

Patient outcome: i) deterioration, followed by ii) death
Hospital outcome: i) "we have cut our length of stay, our KPI", ii) we are improving quality of life cos de people prefer to stay in the community;
Fiscal outcome: Sigh-man meets his targets;
Your outcome: Lower taxes

Go left, stay left = go away, die already!

holliehobbie · 22-10-2019 8:58pm

True story. Got over 100 text messages to my phone reminding me about a yearly appointment! Also my daughter was referred urgently to a clinic via her gp in April. I rang them a few weeks ago to see why the surgical clinic hadn't received the referral letter from the other clinic. Oh that was posted to her address in July. Not received by my daughter. Same secretary oh your daughter was here in this clinic in March. Letter written after clinic in April faxed to surgical clinic. Appointment finally made. This a large teachng hospital in Dublin. My chart regularly goes missing there too. Have to give the registrar my diagnoses and what meds I'm on and then then tell them what they medication they need to write me up for and what blood tests I need done. Only that I have a medical background I'd probably be dead by now!

purifol0 · 02-11-2019 8:58pm

Some facts to consider

The HSE is the largest employer in the country, thats a lot of votes.

The HSE is almost fully unionised and all of these unions are Public Sector (except consultants who get to be both public and private)
Union members are told via text messages who to vote for.
The Unions including infamously the INMO regularly lie about their renumeration/working hours & conditions/pension/sick days/agency employment, have close ties to RTE to spread propaganda and have blocked reform and change in general.
Many of the "useless managerial layer" in the HSE are nurses promoted to desk jobs.

Every year the HSE goes way over budget and every year the politicians solve this problem by allotting it an even larger slice of the pie.

The HSE still posts things.

When the HSE ****s up you always have to battle them in court (even when the Taoiseach is apologising to the patients/victims in the Dáil).

Tmdoherty · 07-11-2019 10:53pm

After a recent visit to an emergency department which was in full capacity protocol I started to think about other things going on in Ireland,
600,000 on boil water notice in the capital because of treatment plants which are unfit for purpose,
record numbers of people on trolleys and the process of hiring new staff is in some sort of freeze.
A nurse told me that a new ct unit and facilities were almost finished in this hospital, but they had nobody to work in it.
I'm not stating that as a fact just her opinion.
RTE is failing, Molex and novartis are two high profile long term firms laying of staff.
Over 10000 homeless,
People are protesting against vunerable women getting direct provision.
Rents are unaffordable to many.
Corporate investors bought 3000 properties in Ireland last year alone.
Or is this just run of the mill stuff.

L1011 · 07-11-2019 11:03pm

Not by any historical standards, no. Things were closer to crisis point just before the bailout, in the years after the '77 giveaway budget and at various points in the 50s and 60s before EEC membership and the opening of the economy that it entailed.

Going point by point:

* Irish Water have no cash and its pretty clear that the same issues happened at Leixlip before without getting noticed
* Health services have been understaffed for a decade at this stage
* RTE is kite flying to get a licence fee increase, its been 11 years
* Molex not having left already was amazing, pharma plants reach end of profitability all the time and usually someone with something new to make buys them so expect it to be bought
* We have had as severe housing crises before, except with people living in caravans down the middle of the Long Mile Road instead of low end hotel rooms for instance (the late 60s one) They're horrible for those affected but they pass.
* The rise of the far-right has happened here before, Ailtirí na hAiséirghe during WWII for instance. That should pass... I hope
* For rents, see previous housing crises. Its a supply issue which we've had time and time again before
* People were screaming out for "professional landlords" five years ago. We now have them and people hate them. They need to be taxed properly but the reality is that the Rent Pressure Zone legislation is almost certainly unconstitutional and they'll challenge it if taxed, so pick one.

Certain things you are raising issue with will not change majorly without a change of Government, yet all we're likely to get is one letter moving in the not-a-coalition if anything.

Harry Palmr · 07-11-2019 11:17pm

The country is in a permanent state of competence crises.

Mr.Nice Guy · 07-11-2019 11:21pm

Not by historical standards if we're considering events like the potato blight, but if we're measuring ourselves to other similarly sized European nation-states, then absolutely.

Record numbers of homelessness with young people unable to afford rents nevermind own their own homes, absolute shambles of a health service, lawlessness on the border areas to the point where a man is tortured by his neighbours, scumbags holding up tourists in the capital's city centre in broad daylight such is their contempt for the law, dirty needles strewn about the same streets giving a disgraceful image of our country, and so on.

You know things are bad when the only defence for the above is that it's been that way for a long time. Isn't that the Homer Simpson defence? 'It was like that when I got here.'

At some point politicians have to take responsibility for their mess, and the electorate has to take responsbility for continuing to reward those responsible for said mess. "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."

NIMAN · 07-11-2019 11:31pm

Lists like this could be created for any country in the world.

Many, many countries are much worse than Ireland.

I think more people should be thankful they live in Ireland.

Tmdoherty · 08-11-2019 12:02am

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Not by historical standards if we're considering events like the potato blight, but if we're measuring ourselves to other similarly sized European nation-states, then absolutely.

Record numbers of homelessness with young people unable to afford rents nevermind own their own homes, absolute shambles of a health service, lawlessness on the border areas to the point where a man is tortured by his neighbours, scumbags holding up tourists in the capital's city centre in broad daylight such is their contempt for the law, dirty needles strewn about the same streets giving a disgraceful image of our country, and so on.

You know things are bad when the only defence for the above is that it's been that way for a long time. Isn't that the Homer Simpson defence? 'It was like that when I got here.'

At some point politicians have to take responsibility for their mess, and the electorate has to take responsbility for continuing to reward those responsible for said mess. "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."

I suppose I meant relative to where we should be if things were running properly or close to it, and that things are getting worse rather than improving in most cases.
Maybe heading for crisis would have been a better title, although 10000 homeless is a crisis.
The Irish not giving the cead mile failte to people leaving volatile, inhumane and poverty stricken countries to for the most part find a better life is a crisis.

I think that's part of it, the "homer effect" we are a bit immune to hearing there's overcrowding in the hospital or houses are unaffordable.
Some poor soul will die on the streets over Christmas and they will matter for a few weeks.

Tmdoherty · 08-11-2019 12:13am

L1011 wrote: »

Not by any historical standards, no. Things were closer to crisis point just before the bailout, in the years after the '77 giveaway budget and at various points in the 50s and 60s before EEC membership and the opening of the economy that it entailed.

Going point by point:

* Irish Water have no cash and its pretty clear that the same issues happened at Leixlip before without getting noticed
* Health services have been understaffed for a decade at this stage
* RTE is kite flying to get a licence fee increase, its been 11 years
* Molex not having left already was amazing, pharma plants reach end of profitability all the time and usually someone with something new to make buys them so expect it to be bought
* We have had as severe housing crises before, except with people living in caravans down the middle of the Long Mile Road instead of low end hotel rooms for instance (the late 60s one) They're horrible for those affected but they pass.
* The rise of the far-right has happened here before, Ailtirí na hAiséirghe during WWII for instance. That should pass... I hope
* For rents, see previous housing crises. Its a supply issue which we've had time and time again before
* People were screaming out for "professional landlords" five years ago. We now have them and people hate them. They need to be taxed properly but the reality is that the Rent Pressure Zone legislation is almost certainly unconstitutional and they'll challenge it if taxed, so pick one.

Certain things you are raising issue with will not change majorly without a change of Government, yet all we're likely to get is one letter moving in the not-a-coalition if anything.

Great points well written thank you.

The fact all these things are happening and getting considerably worse rather than improving is worrying.
I realise these are hand picked problems and possibly in 10 years you could pick out 10 different ones with the same importance.

I don't blame landlords that's just capitalism. I just feel the government considers an affordable home between 300-400k but the average wage is "39k" and you can only borrow 3.5 times your salary (I know there are exceptions)

Irish water should have been handled better, we all should pay for a service if it is provided.

The far-right are slowing in Europe and Britain, I think, hopefully that will happen here. I'd much rather they were protesting 5g than messing with peoples lives.

I think most people will say it's always been a bit crap here, but it's worse in such and such a place so be grateful you are not homeless, sick, without a passport or thirsty for tap water.

Tmdoherty · 08-11-2019 12:17am

NIMAN wrote: »

Lists like this could be created for any country in the world.

Many, many countries are much worse than Ireland.

I think more people should be thankful they live in Ireland.

I am thankful, I love this country and I'm very proud to be Irish but we could all improve a bit and there's no sense in turning a blind eye to the serious issues of the day. Which at the minute seem to be many.

tobsey · 08-11-2019 12:26am

Tmdoherty wrote: »

Great points well written thank you.

The fact all these things are happening and getting considerably worse rather than improving is worrying.
I realise these are hand picked problems and possibly in 10 years you could pick out 10 different ones with the same importance.

I don't blame landlords that's just capitalism. I just feel the government considers an affordable home between 300-400k but the average wage is "39k" and you can only borrow 3.5 times your salary (I know there are exceptions)

Irish water should have been handled better, we all should pay for a service if it is provided.

The far-right are slowing in Europe and Britain, I think, hopefully that will happen here. I'd much rather they were protesting 5g than messing with peoples lives.

I think most people will say it's always been a bit crap here, but it's worse in such and such a place so be grateful you are not homeless, sick, without a passport or thirsty for tap water.

The average wage is 39k for the whole country. The average price of a house in ge whole country is well below 300k. The average household is much close to two adults than one. So two adults on 39k, borrow 273k and have a deposit of 30k and buy a 300k house, give or take. The 300k affordable homes are in Dublin we’re average earnings are higher.

Tmdoherty · 08-11-2019 12:36am

tobsey wrote: »

The average wage is 39k for the whole country. The average price of a house in ge whole country is well below 300k. The average household is much close to two adults than one. So two adults on 39k, borrow 273k and have a deposit of 30k and buy a 300k house, give or take. The 300k affordable homes are in Dublin we’re average earnings are higher.

39k is the average wage in Dublin, 25k in Donegal, 35k in Cork for e.g these averages are pretty scatty.

BuzzMcdonnell · 08-11-2019 12:39am

The 10,000 homeless, the unaffordable rents and properties being bought up by corporate investors are all at least loosely different sides of the same issue imo.

I also wonder if this housing situation was sorted would it take fuel from the populists fire who are protesting asylum seekers being housed in Achill and elsewhere. People hear every day about how the country is in the midst of a housing crisis, and then stories emerge of Asylum seekers potentially getting put into towns around the country. From what I can see the far right take full advantage of this and paint it to seem like this is the cause of the country’s housing issues and homelessness.

Idbatterim · 08-11-2019 12:40am

Pretty hard to provide affordable homes to working people with the obscene welfare state and then providing a load of layabout parasites with free housing for life !

and that’s the crux of it !

Government Spending [See post 106]

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