Government Spending [See post 106]

ted1 · 24-05-2019 1:44am #1

After 22 years of voting FG my vote is lost.
I went FG original aS I grew up beside a FG minister who I have the up most respect for and who was like a second father to me
But since they have come to power I have been totally disillusioned by them.

The three things which stand out are:

1.) the 3 bn on rural broadband despite all advice against it.

2.) the cancellation of metro south despite the FG lite minister being from south Dublin

3.) Marie Bailey and her 60k swinging action

These are what stand out despite no change in planning laws since the apple in Galway cock up.

The inability of Harris and Murphy. The lack of additional prison spaces.

The lack in tackling excessive insurance pay outs

As a middle income earner insurance is huge cost.
Life insurance for mortgage : 250
House insurance : 350
Car insurance : 650 *2. ( wife and me )
Health insurance 2500 ( 2 adults three kids)

4050 or 8100 of my income before tax on insurance !!!

Unlike those in welfare GP and prescriptions are extra.

How can anyone justify voting for FG?

LuckyLloyd · 24-05-2019 2:54am

This is not a general election. It is a European / Local election.

How is FG representing Ireland on Brexit? How are their MEPs performing in Europe? Do you agree with the broad policy aims of the EPP in a pan European context?

What is the stance of your FG candidates on the specific issues in your local area?

These are the relevant considerations for tomorrow’s elections. I am most definitely not FG affiliated, for clarity.

troyzer · 24-05-2019 3:02am

Local elections are largely meaningless, councils have very little power. Your best bet is to honestly vote for the candidate who lives closest to you, they're more likely to actually listen to you when you complain about road surfacing, anti social behaviour etc. It's all they can really do. Ideological differences are largely irrelevant when they haven't got any control over policy. Councils are given X amount of money from the government along with a remit and told to get on with it. Much of the power even within the local authorities rests with the civil service

Voting for an Irish party when it comes to Europe is pointless. Nobody is going to come away with more than a handful of seats in a parliament of hundreds. You're voting for a European grouping and it needs to be seen that way.

All of the Fine Gael European candidates I've seen are against a European army but their EPP spitzenkandidat is Manfred Weber who will likely be the president of the next commission and who is very much in favour of a European army. Same with FF and Alde/Verhofstadt. The individual policies of the candidates are largely meaningless if they're part of an enormous, multi national bloc.

Examine the policies of their grouping.

A quick list:

Fine Gael = EPP
Fianna Fáil = Alde
Labour = S&Ds
Greens = Greens
Sinn Féin and most lefty independents = GUE/NGL

Roanmore · 24-05-2019 7:14am

Is Marie Bailey taking legal action FG policy now?

Wheeliebin30 · 24-05-2019 7:42am

How do people think this is a general election?

Sinn Fein hold the majority on DCC as it is.

That will happen again and people will think the tide has turned later?

L1011 · 24-05-2019 8:03am

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

How do people think this is a general election?

Sinn Fein hold the majority on DCC as it is.

That will happen again and people will think the tide has turned later?

SF are polling joint third in Dublin, with Labour, behind FF and FG and just ahead of the Greens. All are more transfer friendly. They didn't match their 2014 vote figures in 2016 and the polling is less favourable again. High profile departures like Noeleen Reilly have also happened

I would be surprised if they're the biggest party on DCC again

Wheeliebin30 · 24-05-2019 8:07am

L1011 wrote: »

SF are polling joint third in Dublin, with Labour, behind FF and FF and just ahead of the Greens. All are more transfer friendly. They didn't match their 2014 vote figures in 2016 and the polling is less favourable again. High profile departures like Noeleen Reilly have also happened

I would be surprised if they're the biggest party on DCC again

People think things will be different if FF and FG aren’t in the councils with most seats.

My point is it’s already been like that for 5 years.

NIMAN · 24-05-2019 8:08am

To be fair OP, we could list stuff like that about each political party.

stefanovich · 24-05-2019 8:20am

troyzer wrote: »

Local elections are largely meaningless, councils have very little power. Your best bet is to honestly vote for the candidate who lives closest to you, they're more likely to actually listen to you when you complain about road surfacing, anti social behaviour etc. It's all they can really do. Ideological differences are largely irrelevant when they haven't got any control over policy. Councils are given X amount of money from the government along with a remit and told to get on with it. Much of the power even within the local authorities rests with the civil service

Voting for an Irish party when it comes to Europe is pointless. Nobody is going to come away with more than a handful of seats in a parliament of hundreds. You're voting for a European grouping and it needs to be seen that way.

All of the Fine Gael European candidates I've seen are against a European army but their EPP spitzenkandidat is Manfred Weber who will likely be the president of the next commission and who is very much in favour of a European army. Same with FF and Alde/Verhofstadt. The individual policies of the candidates are largely meaningless if they're part of an enormous, multi national bloc.

Examine the policies of their grouping.

A quick list:

Fine Gael = EPP
Fianna Fáil = Alde
Labour = S&Ds
Greens = Greens
Sinn Féin and most lefty independents = GUE/NGL

And the anti EU vote? Dolores Cahill?

The Specialist · 24-05-2019 8:23am

Bit of a contradiction in the things you care about - Not happy for 3bn spending on broadband which will benefit a large amount of people, but bitter that a fancy underground train for Dublin got cancelled??

McMurphy · 24-05-2019 9:13am

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

How do people think this is a general election?

Sinn Fein hold the majority on DCC as it is.

That will happen again and people will think the tide has turned later?

You had better hope they retain that majority, because who else will you attempt to blame for the failures of Central government?

In other news.

Seems the defence forces including members of their families are voting against FG in protest at pay and conditions.

Defence Forces personnel voting against Fine Gael in protest over pay and conditions

Like the earlier presidential election, local elections offer people a reasonably safe platform to send a protest message to a government, without causing much knock on effect.

I haven't voted yet, but will probably be doing so in the next few hours, will have a leisurely stroll down to the local polling station with herself, possibly have a coffee or maybe even sit out and enjoy a beer on the way home (I like elections).

I haven't made my mind up yet on the locals, I will literally decide when I get to the polling booth.

Wheeliebin30 · 24-05-2019 9:16am

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

You had better hope they retain that majority, because who else will you attempt to blame for the failures of Central government?

In other news.

Seems the defence forces including members of their families are voting against FG in protest at pay and conditions.

Defence Forces personnel voting against Fine Gael in protest over pay and conditions

Like the earlier presidential election, local elections offer people a reasonably safe platform to send a protest message to a government, without causing much knock on effect.

I haven't voted yet, but will probably be doing so in the next few hours, will have a leisurely stroll down to the local polling station with herself, possibly have a coffee or maybe even sit out and enjoy a beer on the way home (I like elections).

I haven't made my mind up yet on the locals, I will literally decide when I get to the polling booth.

Early Friday beers.

I’m jealous:(

Your point proves how utterly useless local elections are.

A party gets the most seats but ultimately no responsibility.

McMurphy · 24-05-2019 9:34am

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

Early Friday beers.

I’m jealous:(

Your point proves how utterly useless local elections are.

A party gets the most seats but ultimately no responsibility.

Don't be jealous, herself has a day off too, so will more than likely be coffee (plus doesn't look like beer/wine weather)

I like the posters suggestion up above about voting for the local lad, my local lad is prob less than a mile and a half from where I live, works extremely hard in the local area (not just a lad who appears at election time) and he's been on the local council repeatedly since 2011.

He's a FG candidate, and at the minute (although he never made an appearance at my house) he's probably getting my number one.

I like an independent in my area, she's been a solid worker since the last locals she's probably getting number 2.

Will do a bit of research on the rest before I set out.

Wheeliebin30 · 24-05-2019 9:49am

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

Don't be jealous, herself has a day off too, so will more than likely be coffee (plus doesn't look like beer/wine weather)

I like the posters suggestion up above about voting for the local lad, my local lad is prob less than a mile and a half from where I live, works extremely hard in the local area (not just a lad who appears at election time) and he's been on the local council repeatedly since 2011.

He's a FG candidate, and at the minute (although he never made an appearance at my house) he's probably getting my number one.

I like an independent in my area, she's been a solid worker since the last locals she's probably getting number 2.

Will do a bit of research on the rest before I set out.

I’m shocked Johnny!!

McMurphy · 24-05-2019 9:54am

Wheeliebin30 wrote: »

I’m shocked Johnny!!

At me having a rare day off?

Choosing coffee over beer?

Or voting for the best local candidates?

:

Wheeliebin30 · 24-05-2019 9:57am

Johnny Dogs wrote: »

At me having a rare day off?

Choosing coffee over beer?

Or voting for the best local candidates? :

:):)

Obviously the coffee over beer..

jester77 · 24-05-2019 9:59am

ted1 wrote: »

After 22 years of voting FG my vote is lost.
I went FG original aS I grew up beside a FG minister who I have the up most respect for and who was like a second father to me
But since they have come to power I have been totally disillusioned by them.

The three things which stand out are:

1.) the 3 bn on rural broadband despite all advice against it.

2.) the cancellation of metro south despite the FG lite minister being from south Dublin

3.) Marie Bailey and her 60k swinging action

These are what stand out despite no change in planning laws since the apple in Galway cock up.

The inability of Harris and Murphy. The lack of additional prison spaces.

The lack in tackling excessive insurance pay outs

As a middle income earner insurance is huge cost.
Life insurance for mortgage : 250
House insurance : 350
Car insurance : 650 *2. ( wife and me )
Health insurance 2500 ( 2 adults three kids)

4050 or 8100 of my income before tax on insurance !!!

Unlike those in welfare GP and prescriptions are extra.

How can anyone justify voting for FG?

I don't think you can blame the government for insurance costs, they are going up everywhere. I live in Germany, and my insurance costs for everything you listed there are higher for everything you listed, actually much higher in the case of health insurance. I pay well over 6k a year for myself, kids are extra and I have to cover the first €600 or €800 (can't remember as I thankfully never get close enough to have to make a claim) of costs each year before I can even make a claim.

Stoner · 24-05-2019 10:35am

ted1 wrote:

2.) the cancellation of metro south despite the FG lite minister being from south Dublin

Why is it an issue where the TD is from?

I see your other points, but are you suggesting that the Minister sould put where they are from before the overall interest of the country/party?

Isn't that the sort of thing that causes us so many problems already?

FreudianSlippers · 24-05-2019 10:40am

What we should be talking about is abolition of the councils and reform of the Seanad to replace them. It's ridiculous how many people we elect to these toothless positions in both. Let's do what was promised when we (correctly) retained the upper house of our government.

Quin_Dub · 24-05-2019 1:23pm

FreudianSlippers wrote: »

What we should be talking about is abolition of the councils and reform of the Seanad to replace them. It's ridiculous how many people we elect to these toothless positions in both. Let's do what was promised when we (correctly) retained the upper house of our government.

Absolutely..

Abolish the councils , then broadly speaking add an extra seat to every Dail constituency and beef up the Senate (proper direct elections for a start) with meaningful oversight.

RandomName2 · 24-05-2019 2:26pm

ted1 wrote: »

How can anyone justify voting for FG?

Because the alternative is

Fianna Fail, who do not still know why there was a financial crash.
Sinn Fein, a retirement home for terrorists, who play at being socialists while behaving like the Irish equivalent of Rednecks draped in Confederate flegs.
Labour, who, ironically, are all about screwing the little guy.
Loony left and right, who are pretty loony.
Oh can't forget about
Green Party, who are permanently detached from reality.

A party who don't know how to manage a budget, who have time and again thrown whistleblowers to the dogs, and always on call to kiss Juncker's four cheeks seem weirdly okay in comparison to all that.

nice_guy80 · 24-05-2019 2:29pm

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Absolutely..

Abolish the councils , then broadly speaking add an extra seat to every Dail constituency and beef up the Senate (proper direct elections for a start) with meaningful oversight.

we need more actual power devolved to local councils

we're the most centralised country in Europe with majority of decisions that affect us made in Dublin

average_runner · 24-05-2019 2:44pm

ted1 wrote: »

After 22 years of voting FG my vote is lost.
I went FG original aS I grew up beside a FG minister who I have the up most respect for and who was like a second father to me
But since they have come to power I have been totally disillusioned by them.

The three things which stand out are:

1.) the 3 bn on rural broadband despite all advice against it.

2.) the cancellation of metro south despite the FG lite minister being from south Dublin

3.) Marie Bailey and her 60k swinging action

These are what stand out despite no change in planning laws since the apple in Galway cock up.

The inability of Harris and Murphy. The lack of additional prison spaces.

The lack in tackling excessive insurance pay outs

As a middle income earner insurance is huge cost.
Life insurance for mortgage : 250
House insurance : 350
Car insurance : 650 *2. ( wife and me )
Health insurance 2500 ( 2 adults three kids)

4050 or 8100 of my income before tax on insurance !!!

Unlike those in welfare GP and prescriptions are extra.

How can anyone justify voting for FG?

You have a luas on the southside, there is alot of parts of Dublin with no light rail system. Cancelling metro south was correct thing to do

johnnyskeleton · 24-05-2019 3:29pm

Its hard to be inspired by any politicians at the moment. Ireland is at least lucky that we havent had the rise of extrwmists or populists on either side.

As to why to vote FG, the general sense seems to be that there is no real alternative. That is a depressingly bad way for the world to be - that we just accept what we have and feel powerless to change.

But, the change that the people of the UK, Germany etc want is much worse than ordinary incompetence and greed.

ted1 · 24-05-2019 3:40pm

The Specialist wrote: »

Bit of a contradiction in the things you care about - Not happy for 3bn spending on broadband which will benefit a large amount of people, but bitter that a fancy underground train for Dublin got cancelled??

The 3bn is being spent on few people, many of who purchased cheap plots to build one of housing in rural locations the tax payer shouldn’t pick up their tab. They have being advised agasinest it by their own department and the states largest telcos.

The metro upgrade was planned and allowed for when the LUAS was built and would only cost about 50m and will be used by more people than live in rural Ireland in a daily basis. It’ll lower carbon emissions by displacing cars and thus pay fir itself quickly. It also allows for expansion of Dublin housing stick by making the city more accessible.

ted1 · 24-05-2019 3:42pm

Stoner wrote: »

Why is it an issue where the TD is from?

I see your other points, but are you suggesting that the Minister sould put where they are from before the overall interest of the country/party?

Isn't that the sort of thing that causes us so many problems already?

The TD is meant to look after his area. The TD from south Dublin is the minister. He is A TD first.

average_runner · 24-05-2019 3:57pm

ted1 wrote: »

The TD is meant to look after his area. The TD from south Dublin is the minister. He is A TD first.

No a TD job is to look after the national interest and not the area they are from.

The Councillor looks after local issues, TD looks after national issues

TD's doing local politics is what has this country where it is

cruizer101 · 24-05-2019 4:02pm

ted1 wrote: »

The TD is meant to look after his area. The TD from south Dublin is the minister. He is A TD first.

TD's shouldn't really be looking after their area they should be doing what is best for the country as a whole.

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Abolish the councils , then broadly speaking add an extra seat to every Dail constituency and beef up the Senate (proper direct elections for a start) with meaningful oversight.

I'd be thinking the opposite, give the councils more power (maybe reduce the number a bit) and reduce the number of TD's (potentially bigger constituencies also).

TD should worry about national issue councilors about local issues.

ted1 · 24-05-2019 4:06pm

average_runner wrote: »

You have a luas on the southside, there is alot of parts of Dublin with no light rail system. Cancelling metro south was correct thing to do

The LUAS is at capacity, and it was built to be upgraded. They have built and are building thousands more on the understanding it was getting an upgrade. There will be an extra 30,000 + people living in Cherrywood alone.

average_runner · 24-05-2019 4:10pm

ted1 wrote: »

The LUAS is at capacity, and it was built to be upgraded. They have built and are building thousands more on the understanding it was getting an upgrade. There will be an extra 30,000 + people living in Cherrywood alone.

And there is alot more living out on the westside of Dublin and bigger developments going ahead than Cherrywood.

ted1 · 24-05-2019 4:22pm

average_runner wrote: »

And there is alot more living out on the westside of Dublin and bigger developments going ahead than Cherrywood.

And could they upgrade to a metro for only 50 Million?

Government Spending [See post 106]

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