Government Spending [See post 106]

average_runner · 24-05-2019 5:09pm

ted1 wrote: »

And could they upgrade to a metro for only 50 Million?

If you really believe it would cost 50m, you are living in dream land!!!

blanch152 · 24-05-2019 5:32pm

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

Its hard to be inspired by any politicians at the moment. Ireland is at least lucky that we havent had the rise of extrwmists or populists on either side.

As to why to vote FG, the general sense seems to be that there is no real alternative. That is a depressingly bad way for the world to be - that we just accept what we have and feel powerless to change.

But, the change that the people of the UK, Germany etc want is much worse than ordinary incompetence and greed.

I wouldn't be so sanguine about the extremes.

We are seeing the emergence of Aontu as a deeply conservative party with unknown economic policies and 1930s social policies.

On the other side of the spectrum, we don't have the radical burn-it-all-down type parties, but we do have our fair share of parties and politicians who believe we can tax unicorns and rainbows to pay for everything.

The parties in the middle are failing, but not to the extent that they have done in UK or rest of Europe.

titan18 · 24-05-2019 5:45pm

I just voted and based both off parties or candidates I'd like to see more of. In reality, neither vote matters as it's larger blocs in Europe and councils are powerless but I'd rather give Greens, Social Democrats, Direct Democracy Ireland a boost by giving them a vote. Can only see the Green candidate potentially getting in out of the ones I voted for but at least might help to make a steer in national decisions if there's enough voters across all districts for them.

26-05-2019 3:07pm

ted1 wrote: »

As a middle income earner insurance is huge cost.
Life insurance for mortgage : 250
House insurance : 350
Car insurance : 650 *2. ( wife and me )
Health insurance 2500 ( 2 adults three kids)

4050 or 8100 of my income before tax on insurance !!!

Unlike those in welfare GP and prescriptions are extra.

How can anyone justify voting for FG?

I agree. The thing I'm most interested in there, though, is where you're getting mortgage protection for €250! That's a great price (or you must have a very small mortgage). You're being screwed with the car insurance so shop around - I got a fantastic comprehensive price off Blue insurance for two years for about €650 (i.e. €325 per year). Bank of Ireland Motor insurance this year was much cheaper than most (Blue went up this year), and their house insurance was also cheaper -you got a further discount if you had an existing BofI insurance policy. Your health insurance seems OK, but I'd still be shopping around. :pac:

PS: Remember you shouldn't be paying more than €134 per month for your pharmacy prescriptions. The government pays the rest (just stay with the one pharmacy).

James Brown · 27-05-2019 2:13pm

troyzer wrote: »

Local elections are largely meaningless, councils have very little power....

They are single handily responsible for either the housing crisis or not taking the FG government to task, depending on which Fine Gael supporter, or 'better the devil you know' Fine Gael voter you're talking to.

Roanmore wrote: »

Is Marie Bailey taking legal action FG policy now?

It's an inside look at the caliber of the party members, despite supposed party no nonsense claim/fiscal conservatism spin. A party is the sum of it's membership.

Quin_Dub wrote: »

Absolutely..

Abolish the councils , then broadly speaking add an extra seat to every Dail constituency and beef up the Senate (proper direct elections for a start) with meaningful oversight.

Councils are they only democratic alternative to state government. The Seanad is a joke and should be dismantled. Do we think, 'seagulls losing the run of themselves' and 'ice cream trucks being too loud' are the quality people we need looking after issues?
The councils, like many other things need to be fit for purpose and in some areas re-designed as such. We would need replace them with same. We could not function without them. Look at Irish Water, we took responsibility off the LA's only to have a quango use the LA's to carry out the same works they had been doing. The same would happen across the board if we dispensed with councils.

Asitis2019 · 22-10-2019 8:47pm

Day X In Hospital

"You're looking well today, you will be able to go home today"
"Oh really...I just had a heart attack/stroke/hip replacement yesterday"
"Oh, think nothing of it sir...you can attend your primary care centre. The public health nurse will visit you daily. Please don't worry sir. We have a great treatment plan for you. "
"That's Greeeattttt"

Two days later

Ring, ring
"I've just spent two days trying to get through to the centre"
"Oh, we don't have a receptionist and we cut the lines off at 3pm"
"well, can I see the public health nurse"
"Do you have a referral"
"What, well they told me to come here"
"No, you need a referral, contact the hospital. yeah"

Calls the hospital

Ring, ring; voice message from some authoritative sounding female lacking authority; ring, ring, etc etc; another voice message from another authoritative sounding female lacking authority

Several hours later

"What do you want...I mean, how can I help you"
"I need a "refer all" for x, y, z"
"Well, I can't do that. That would be the consultant, you'll have to call his secretary "
"Do you have his/her number"
"Sighs...yes, its.... "

Ring, ring; voice message from some authoritative sounding female lacking authority.
"Beep..."
"Hi, I'm looking for a referral.."

Several days later
Authoritative female calls
"I'm returning your call, what do you want...I mean, how can I help you?"
"I'm looking for a referral for..."
"Oh, didn't they do that...no...sounds unsurprised...okay leave it with me..."

Several days later
Referral arrives (maybe, maybe not, 50-50)
Ring, ring; engaged; voice message
"What"
"Did you get my referral, please"
"Oh, I will look and call you back. We don't have any systems, or software. "

Several hours later
"Yeah, you will have to wait a couple of weeks for that. She is very busy. Also, you will need to come in. After 9.30am. Before 4pm. Cos we don't work past then. Ya know how it is"

Patient outcome: i) deterioration, followed by ii) death
Hospital outcome: i) "we have cut our length of stay, our KPI", ii) we are improving quality of life cos de people prefer to stay in the community;
Fiscal outcome: Sigh-man meets his targets;
Your outcome: Lower taxes

Go left, stay left = go away, die already!

holliehobbie · 22-10-2019 8:58pm

True story. Got over 100 text messages to my phone reminding me about a yearly appointment! Also my daughter was referred urgently to a clinic via her gp in April. I rang them a few weeks ago to see why the surgical clinic hadn't received the referral letter from the other clinic. Oh that was posted to her address in July. Not received by my daughter. Same secretary oh your daughter was here in this clinic in March. Letter written after clinic in April faxed to surgical clinic. Appointment finally made. This a large teachng hospital in Dublin. My chart regularly goes missing there too. Have to give the registrar my diagnoses and what meds I'm on and then then tell them what they medication they need to write me up for and what blood tests I need done. Only that I have a medical background I'd probably be dead by now!

purifol0 · 02-11-2019 8:58pm

Some facts to consider

The HSE is the largest employer in the country, thats a lot of votes.

The HSE is almost fully unionised and all of these unions are Public Sector (except consultants who get to be both public and private)
Union members are told via text messages who to vote for.
The Unions including infamously the INMO regularly lie about their renumeration/working hours & conditions/pension/sick days/agency employment, have close ties to RTE to spread propaganda and have blocked reform and change in general.
Many of the "useless managerial layer" in the HSE are nurses promoted to desk jobs.

Every year the HSE goes way over budget and every year the politicians solve this problem by allotting it an even larger slice of the pie.

The HSE still posts things.

When the HSE ****s up you always have to battle them in court (even when the Taoiseach is apologising to the patients/victims in the Dáil).

Tmdoherty · 07-11-2019 10:53pm

After a recent visit to an emergency department which was in full capacity protocol I started to think about other things going on in Ireland,
600,000 on boil water notice in the capital because of treatment plants which are unfit for purpose,
record numbers of people on trolleys and the process of hiring new staff is in some sort of freeze.
A nurse told me that a new ct unit and facilities were almost finished in this hospital, but they had nobody to work in it.
I'm not stating that as a fact just her opinion.
RTE is failing, Molex and novartis are two high profile long term firms laying of staff.
Over 10000 homeless,
People are protesting against vunerable women getting direct provision.
Rents are unaffordable to many.
Corporate investors bought 3000 properties in Ireland last year alone.
Or is this just run of the mill stuff.

L1011 · 07-11-2019 11:03pm

Not by any historical standards, no. Things were closer to crisis point just before the bailout, in the years after the '77 giveaway budget and at various points in the 50s and 60s before EEC membership and the opening of the economy that it entailed.

Going point by point:

* Irish Water have no cash and its pretty clear that the same issues happened at Leixlip before without getting noticed
* Health services have been understaffed for a decade at this stage
* RTE is kite flying to get a licence fee increase, its been 11 years
* Molex not having left already was amazing, pharma plants reach end of profitability all the time and usually someone with something new to make buys them so expect it to be bought
* We have had as severe housing crises before, except with people living in caravans down the middle of the Long Mile Road instead of low end hotel rooms for instance (the late 60s one) They're horrible for those affected but they pass.
* The rise of the far-right has happened here before, Ailtirí na hAiséirghe during WWII for instance. That should pass... I hope
* For rents, see previous housing crises. Its a supply issue which we've had time and time again before
* People were screaming out for "professional landlords" five years ago. We now have them and people hate them. They need to be taxed properly but the reality is that the Rent Pressure Zone legislation is almost certainly unconstitutional and they'll challenge it if taxed, so pick one.

Certain things you are raising issue with will not change majorly without a change of Government, yet all we're likely to get is one letter moving in the not-a-coalition if anything.

Harry Palmr · 07-11-2019 11:17pm

The country is in a permanent state of competence crises.

Mr.Nice Guy · 07-11-2019 11:21pm

Not by historical standards if we're considering events like the potato blight, but if we're measuring ourselves to other similarly sized European nation-states, then absolutely.

Record numbers of homelessness with young people unable to afford rents nevermind own their own homes, absolute shambles of a health service, lawlessness on the border areas to the point where a man is tortured by his neighbours, scumbags holding up tourists in the capital's city centre in broad daylight such is their contempt for the law, dirty needles strewn about the same streets giving a disgraceful image of our country, and so on.

You know things are bad when the only defence for the above is that it's been that way for a long time. Isn't that the Homer Simpson defence? 'It was like that when I got here.'

At some point politicians have to take responsibility for their mess, and the electorate has to take responsbility for continuing to reward those responsible for said mess. "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."

NIMAN · 07-11-2019 11:31pm

Lists like this could be created for any country in the world.

Many, many countries are much worse than Ireland.

I think more people should be thankful they live in Ireland.

Tmdoherty · 08-11-2019 12:02am

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Not by historical standards if we're considering events like the potato blight, but if we're measuring ourselves to other similarly sized European nation-states, then absolutely.

Record numbers of homelessness with young people unable to afford rents nevermind own their own homes, absolute shambles of a health service, lawlessness on the border areas to the point where a man is tortured by his neighbours, scumbags holding up tourists in the capital's city centre in broad daylight such is their contempt for the law, dirty needles strewn about the same streets giving a disgraceful image of our country, and so on.

You know things are bad when the only defence for the above is that it's been that way for a long time. Isn't that the Homer Simpson defence? 'It was like that when I got here.'

At some point politicians have to take responsibility for their mess, and the electorate has to take responsbility for continuing to reward those responsible for said mess. "If you always do what you've always done, you'll always get what you've always got."

I suppose I meant relative to where we should be if things were running properly or close to it, and that things are getting worse rather than improving in most cases.
Maybe heading for crisis would have been a better title, although 10000 homeless is a crisis.
The Irish not giving the cead mile failte to people leaving volatile, inhumane and poverty stricken countries to for the most part find a better life is a crisis.

I think that's part of it, the "homer effect" we are a bit immune to hearing there's overcrowding in the hospital or houses are unaffordable.
Some poor soul will die on the streets over Christmas and they will matter for a few weeks.

Tmdoherty · 08-11-2019 12:13am

L1011 wrote: »

Not by any historical standards, no. Things were closer to crisis point just before the bailout, in the years after the '77 giveaway budget and at various points in the 50s and 60s before EEC membership and the opening of the economy that it entailed.

Going point by point:

* Irish Water have no cash and its pretty clear that the same issues happened at Leixlip before without getting noticed
* Health services have been understaffed for a decade at this stage
* RTE is kite flying to get a licence fee increase, its been 11 years
* Molex not having left already was amazing, pharma plants reach end of profitability all the time and usually someone with something new to make buys them so expect it to be bought
* We have had as severe housing crises before, except with people living in caravans down the middle of the Long Mile Road instead of low end hotel rooms for instance (the late 60s one) They're horrible for those affected but they pass.
* The rise of the far-right has happened here before, Ailtirí na hAiséirghe during WWII for instance. That should pass... I hope
* For rents, see previous housing crises. Its a supply issue which we've had time and time again before
* People were screaming out for "professional landlords" five years ago. We now have them and people hate them. They need to be taxed properly but the reality is that the Rent Pressure Zone legislation is almost certainly unconstitutional and they'll challenge it if taxed, so pick one.

Certain things you are raising issue with will not change majorly without a change of Government, yet all we're likely to get is one letter moving in the not-a-coalition if anything.

Great points well written thank you.

The fact all these things are happening and getting considerably worse rather than improving is worrying.
I realise these are hand picked problems and possibly in 10 years you could pick out 10 different ones with the same importance.

I don't blame landlords that's just capitalism. I just feel the government considers an affordable home between 300-400k but the average wage is "39k" and you can only borrow 3.5 times your salary (I know there are exceptions)

Irish water should have been handled better, we all should pay for a service if it is provided.

The far-right are slowing in Europe and Britain, I think, hopefully that will happen here. I'd much rather they were protesting 5g than messing with peoples lives.

I think most people will say it's always been a bit crap here, but it's worse in such and such a place so be grateful you are not homeless, sick, without a passport or thirsty for tap water.

Tmdoherty · 08-11-2019 12:17am

NIMAN wrote: »

Lists like this could be created for any country in the world.

Many, many countries are much worse than Ireland.

I think more people should be thankful they live in Ireland.

I am thankful, I love this country and I'm very proud to be Irish but we could all improve a bit and there's no sense in turning a blind eye to the serious issues of the day. Which at the minute seem to be many.

tobsey · 08-11-2019 12:26am

Tmdoherty wrote: »

Great points well written thank you.

The fact all these things are happening and getting considerably worse rather than improving is worrying.
I realise these are hand picked problems and possibly in 10 years you could pick out 10 different ones with the same importance.

I don't blame landlords that's just capitalism. I just feel the government considers an affordable home between 300-400k but the average wage is "39k" and you can only borrow 3.5 times your salary (I know there are exceptions)

Irish water should have been handled better, we all should pay for a service if it is provided.

The far-right are slowing in Europe and Britain, I think, hopefully that will happen here. I'd much rather they were protesting 5g than messing with peoples lives.

I think most people will say it's always been a bit crap here, but it's worse in such and such a place so be grateful you are not homeless, sick, without a passport or thirsty for tap water.

The average wage is 39k for the whole country. The average price of a house in ge whole country is well below 300k. The average household is much close to two adults than one. So two adults on 39k, borrow 273k and have a deposit of 30k and buy a 300k house, give or take. The 300k affordable homes are in Dublin we’re average earnings are higher.

Tmdoherty · 08-11-2019 12:36am

tobsey wrote: »

The average wage is 39k for the whole country. The average price of a house in ge whole country is well below 300k. The average household is much close to two adults than one. So two adults on 39k, borrow 273k and have a deposit of 30k and buy a 300k house, give or take. The 300k affordable homes are in Dublin we’re average earnings are higher.

39k is the average wage in Dublin, 25k in Donegal, 35k in Cork for e.g these averages are pretty scatty.

BuzzMcdonnell · 08-11-2019 12:39am

The 10,000 homeless, the unaffordable rents and properties being bought up by corporate investors are all at least loosely different sides of the same issue imo.

I also wonder if this housing situation was sorted would it take fuel from the populists fire who are protesting asylum seekers being housed in Achill and elsewhere. People hear every day about how the country is in the midst of a housing crisis, and then stories emerge of Asylum seekers potentially getting put into towns around the country. From what I can see the far right take full advantage of this and paint it to seem like this is the cause of the country’s housing issues and homelessness.

Idbatterim · 08-11-2019 12:40am

Pretty hard to provide affordable homes to working people with the obscene welfare state and then providing a load of layabout parasites with free housing for life !

and that’s the crux of it !

Tmdoherty · 08-11-2019 12:43am

BuzzMcdonnell wrote: »

The 10,000 homeless, the unaffordable rents and properties being bought up by corporate investors are all at least loosely different sides of the same issue imo.

I also wonder if this housing situation was sorted it would take fuel from the populists fire who are protesting asylum seekers being housed in Achill and elsewhere. People hear every day about how the country is in the midst of a housing crisis, and then stories emerge of Asylum seekers potentially getting put into towns around the country. From what I can see the far right take full advantage of this and paint it to seem like this is the cause of the country’s housing issues and homelessness.

Agreed

Tmdoherty · 08-11-2019 12:50am

Idbatterim wrote: »

Pretty hard to provide affordable homes to working people with the obscene welfare state and then providing a load of layabout parasites with free housing for life !

and that’s the crux of it !

I think to a certain extent you are right, but thats always been an issue not just the last 5-10 years.
Welfare is an important part of a developed nation, to bridge gaps in employment sickness, maternity, and to provide houses for people who really need them. I suppose some people are going to take advantage of that no matter what. Thats another problem though, i think if the fraudulent claimsters were rounded up and the state saved a fortune, they would find some other wasteful project to blow it on or someone to hand it over too.

boardise · 08-11-2019 12:50am

Nothing new under the sun . World has always been messy and askew . I actually marvel at the level of order and control that we have in Ireland.
I blame 24 hour round the clock media for much of the discontent that some people feel . They go seeking sensation and the worst possible cases they can find in any area -and then shove them in our faces repetitively a dozen times a day. I disregard much of what the media passes off as 'reality' -especially anything that comes with nicely rounded figures -10,000 this .100,000 that -most of it is just exaggerated baloney.
The media slant even good news toward the negative with weasel tags -e.g ''The Government have allocated X millions to Y -but is it too little too late ? '' Or -interviewing some spokesperson - '' There's going to be more X available to you -but is it enough?'' -knowing well that there's never enough. I find much of what passes for public debate to be bordering on the hysterical -people polarise to extremes far too readily - look at the Brexit fiasco next door!
Progress in any direction is painfully slow because there are always entrenched vested interests , unions ,planning objections etc. Governments
( at least in democracies ) generally struggle today around the world to implement policies given the fragmenting nature of society with all its competing niche constituencies.

high_king · 08-11-2019 1:56am

NIMAN wrote: »

Lists like this could be created for any country in the world.

Many, many countries are much worse than Ireland.

I think more people should be thankful they live in Ireland.

This is true, but why is the bar being set at "We're not as bad as Albania ?"

Ireland has so much potential, and yet so much incompetent and ignorant mis-management, and why should Irish people turn a blind eye to it and pretend it doesn't exist ? The first step in solving a problem is being honest enough to admit there is one.

Rodin · 08-11-2019 2:02am

Plenty of empty houses around the country.
The hotel-housed "homeless" don't want them....

Time to turn off the life support.

The social welfare bill is the great unspoken scandal of the country.

MoashoaM · 08-11-2019 4:45am

There is a bit of a crisis.

It starts a long time ago though.
Even before they (Dev and the gang) were forming a Republic.
We are a nation run by a few families really.

BonnieSituation · 08-11-2019 9:15am

Idbatterim wrote: »

Pretty hard to provide affordable homes to working people with the obscene welfare state and then providing a load of layabout parasites with free housing for life !

and that’s the crux of it !

Poor people are the cause of runaway property prices and rents?

The corollary of that is the lack of state intervention and a functioning social housing system is the real issue.

The welfare state is not obscene, it's just incorrectly focussed on giving bad money after bad. You well know that yourself.

But people want headline "fivers" they don't want functioning public transport or healthcare systems.

To blame the poor for the ills of the state and its lack of intervention is the greatest trick of our times.

Do you not think developers are just squeezing the life out of the market themselves trying to make super-normal profit at the expense of home buyers? Or us that an unemployed person's fault too?

Tmdoherty · 08-11-2019 9:29am

BonnieSituation wrote: »

Poor people are the cause of runaway property prices and rents?

The corollary of that is the lack of state intervention and a functioning social housing system is the real issue.

The welfare state is not obscene, it's just incorrectly focussed on giving bad money after bad. You well know that yourself.

But people want headline "fivers" they don't want functioning public transport or healthcare systems.

To blame the poor for the ills of the state and its lack of intervention is the greatest trick of our times.

Do you not think developers are just squeezing the life out of the market themselves trying to make super-normal profit at the expense of home buyers? Or us that an unemployed person's fault too?

We should also blame sick people for putting the HSE under pressure.

08-11-2019 9:31am

"10000" "homeless"

facehugger99 · 08-11-2019 10:10am

It suits the media, opposition politicians and vested interests such as Unions to portray the country as being in the constant grip of various crises.

The Govt. of the day then need to be seen to be dealing with whatever the 'current crisis du jour' is.

It's a thoroughly damaging cycle.

It leads to unsuitable one-issue candidates being elected. It feeds into the short-term outlook of most Govt policy and planning. It moves focus away from more pressing and important issues.

Government Spending [See post 106]

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