Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

unkel · 14-05-2019 12:10PM

johnjacob wrote: »

So what are you doing with the excess?

At the moment, mostly sending it back to the grid for free. Apart from some cryptomining (which I plan to stop now the weather is getting warmer) and perhaps charging my car on the granny cable on a sunny day (but that's a pain)

Getting an AC attached battery system connected soon. Cost me hundreds, not thousands. More as a hobby than anything else. And like the rest of you, hope for either a half decent feed in tariff or a huge decrease in the cost of lithium batteries or (my favourite) a V2G system provided by the utility company as a pilot / sans the setup costs

unkel · 14-05-2019 12:11PM

Quick test and my measurements are very flaky as I'm just using an Owl for overall consumption / feed back to grid (can't even really tell which is which from the face of it

)

KCross wrote: »

Does it just have one setting regardless of whether its the granny cable or the 32A EVSE?

There are two settings, but it looks like one setting for DC charging and one for AC charging. So yes, one setting regardless of whether it's the granny cable or the 32A EVSE

And the minimum setting when using the EVSE is still drawing about 4.2kW, so no good to me (a good bit more than my solar PV can provide)

The maximum setting when using the granny cable is a bit over 2kW, so perfect. Were it not for the fact I have to be using the granny cable, which flies in the face of the max convenience setup I have with my EVSE

On the sunny side, the car will be charging up to 100% over the next few hours, purely on PV, so 100% clean and 100% free

rolion · 14-05-2019 12:18PM

Evd-Burner wrote: »

It really isn't worth buying a diverter and a new hot water tank just to divert the hot water. It will take years just to pay off the diverter, nevermind the tank!

johnjacob wrote: »

So what are you doing with the excess?

Be much handier if we could just feed it back into the grid rather than buy batteries

One neighbor has a very old meter and it runs backwards, so they are quids in

Well,this has been discussed here a lot... plus and minus, even friendships have been broken for it...lots of verbal fightings.

After having a system working for the past 2 years, i can say that there are two options:
-buy the PV system without the diverter and all the excess electricity goes to Mr Grid while you enjoy the weather;
-buy at the same time and install it at the same time the PV system with diverter and ... save any excess to your own personal owned in-house hot water cylinder,while enjoy it the weather to your own comfort.

Now,unless you work for one of the big industry companies out there, i guess is easier to see which one has a "personal touch" advantage.

Please note that there will not be a FIT payment system around here for a couple of goooood years...
I mean think about it...i pushed 11Kwh yesterday free in the grid. Multiply that with few more hundreds of PV installs across the country... ask yourself:why in my right mind i will approve FIT when i can get surplus of "negative energy" from the grants' happy owners of the PVs !??

And,don't forget ..think about the environment,change begins from within yourself (while big guys are fcukign up this planet)

unkel · 14-05-2019 12:20PM

Charging completely from the sun

KCross · 14-05-2019 12:39PM

unkel wrote: »

And the minimum setting when using the EVSE is still drawing about 4.2kW, so no good to me (a good bit more than my solar PV can provide)

The maximum setting when using the granny cable is a bit over 2kW, so perfect. Were it not for the fact I have to be using the granny cable, which flies in the face of the max convenience setup I have with my EVSE

Little confused.... what settings does the car give you?
Can you set all AC charging to 6A?

Why did the 32A charger pull 4.2kW if the car was set for a lower amount?

EDIT: Ah, I see this about the Ioniq... it has 3 charge speeds on AC...
Maximum = 30 Ampere (=6,7kW)
Medium = 26 Ampere (=5,87kW)
Minimum= 17 Ampere (=3,94kW)

The 3.94kW is what you were getting by the looks of it.

So, yes, my original thought of a Granny cable being needed if you want to ensure you dont pull from the grid unless you had a smart charger that would allow you to limit it at the EVSE side.

unkel · 14-05-2019 12:51PM

Where did you get those settings from, couldn't find it myself

But yeah they seem spot on. I'm disappointed I can't set the minimum below 17A. That indeed forces me to use a granny cable (or partially import from the grid)

Smart charger is not a financially smart option for me. And I'm not impressed with all the stories here on this forum alone about issues with the Zappi chargers. And open EVSE seem overpriced too.

I would need a ground mount to increase my PV and also upgrade my inverter. Or just partially charge from the grid. Would still only cost 0.9 kWh * 18c per 4kWh charged, so roughly half the night rate

KCross · 14-05-2019 01:20PM

unkel wrote: »

Where did you get those settings from, couldn't find it myself

Just a google.... came up on some forum post from a guy who tried all 3 settings and posted what his monitor was showing.

unkel wrote: »

I'm disappointed I can't set the minimum below 17A. That indeed forces me to use a granny cable (or partially import from the grid)

Thats disappointing alright. You'd think they'd at least allow you to set it to 10A the same as the granny cable.

I think one of the reasons they dont is that the charger in the car is designed for max efficiency at a particular Amperage. Taking it all the way down to 6A is probably woefully inefficient. They werent thinking of free PV electricity!

Some other cars do allow it though.. Kia PHEV allows 3 settings on its granny cable.. 12A, 10A, 8A.

unkel · 14-05-2019 01:23PM

Ioniq has 3 settings on the granny cable too. I'm using the max charge rate

KCross · 14-05-2019 01:34PM

unkel wrote: »

Ioniq has 3 settings on the granny cable too. I'm using the max charge rate

Must be 10A, 8A and 6A then?

Did you try them to see what they pull?

rolion · 14-05-2019 02:06PM

Enjoy the free charge... oh no,i pay for... no is free,well, i'm not sure...
If you not sure, just "play safe" and "unplug / pull" it at the right time, man !

That's the fcukign difference between a proper EV charger and a "different" one that is being promoted a lot around here.
Let's move to EV topic as here cant see any connection with the PV quotes...

unkel · 14-05-2019 02:28PM

KCross wrote: »

Must be 10A, 8A and 6A then?

Did you try them to see what they pull?

Yeah max is a bit over 2kW, I guess that's the max the granny charger can handle

BobFedora · 14-05-2019 02:42PM

well, thats it really. i know that paying for PV and a new cylinder isn't the smartest thing to do with my money financially. i could pay circa 8k off my mortgage instead.
but,
-small change environmentally is better than nothing
-i (or some combination of me, wife, child) wil be in the house for another 20+ yrs minimum so long term planning
-i like the idea of having 200L of hot water mostly for free (my current HW cylinder is 120L)

i also don't forsee any FIT being introduced so the alternative is no PV or PV and give away the bulk of the electricity.
like i said, i plan on an electric car sooner or later so hope to get more value out of the installation with that too (although dicussion just above has me now wondering).

lightson · 14-05-2019 02:50PM

Hi I have been trying to get some quotes and seemed a good way to judge the price.
Systems and prices and grants vary according to size and options

so far 1 rough quote is

1.8kw system including 2.4 kwh battery and diverter...
€1630 per Kw after grant.
or €1.63 per watt

that seem expensive?

and is this a silly way of looking at the figures?

Thanks

Evd-Burner · 14-05-2019 02:54PM

BobFedora wrote: »

well, thats it really. i know that paying for PV and a new cylinder isn't the smartest thing to do with my money financially. i could pay circa 8k off my mortgage instead.
but,
-small change environmentally is better than nothing
-i (or some combination of me, wife, child) wil be in the house for another 20+ yrs minimum so long term planning
-i like the idea of having 200L of hot water mostly for free (my current HW cylinder is 120L)

Adding the diverter and adding the hot tank is not making any difference environmentally by having the inverter. You would environmentally make a bigger impact giving the juice away to the grid for free!

You also aren't saving any money on the inverter and new water tank either, it's actually costing you! The break even point would be 30+ years! That's without anything breaking or you getting an electric car in the future.

Now getting an electric car and getting a Zappi charger that can use exactly what you would be exporting to the grid will make a difference both financially and environmentally, you would need a charger for the car irregardless.

unkel · 14-05-2019 03:27PM

lightson wrote: »

1.8kw system including 2.4 kwh battery and diverter...

Do NOT get a battery and do NOT get a diverter if you're only installing a 1.8kwp system. Both are a complete waste of money in such a small setup.

BobFedora · 14-05-2019 03:30PM

"Adding the diverter and adding the hot tank is not making any difference environmentally by having the inverter. You would environmentally make a bigger impact giving the juice away to the grid for free!" - surely the world is better off if i get hot water from solar rather than gas? you're probably right about the bigger environmental impact being to give it back to the grid but hey, i want to get something for me too!

"You also aren't saving any money on the inverter and new water tank either, it's actually costing you! The break even point would be 30+ years!" - yep, i get that, but its not just the cash. currently my HW comes only from gas and any issue with the boiler/system means i wake up to no hot water. and every time i take a shower i'm thinking 'fossil fuel'.

'Now getting an electric car and getting a Zappi charger that can use exactly what you would be exporting to the grid' - this sounds like good advice.

thanks for the feedback Evd - like i say, i'm feeling my way around this, getting quotes, trying to pick a solution from battery/hot water/car charging that makes sense to me.

unkel · 14-05-2019 03:39PM

Evd-Burner wrote: »

Now getting an electric car and getting a Zappi charger that can use exactly what you would be exporting to the grid will make a difference both financially and environmentally, you would need a charger for the car irregardless.

If you don't already have a charger and you get the Zappi installed it might make some sense, but still a bit of a payback period. Let's say the Zappi costs €400 more than a basic charger. That still means you have to charge the car with

€400/€0.08 = 5000kWh through the Zappi on 100% free solar for break even. That's 35k km. Let's say you have a large PV array and you can't use it for anything else and your car is at home most of the time then optimistically you can maybe charge it 50% through Zappi and 50% at night rate. Which makes the payback period 70k km, or almost 5 years for someone doing average mileage. That payback would go up big style if we ever get a FIT

If you work away from home during the day, the Zappi will never pay for itself

Like so many other (quasi) renewables - it looks like a great idea, but if you start doing some realistic sums, in many cases it turns out to be pie in the sky

rolion · 14-05-2019 04:35PM

AND...i have my own battery now,thanks @unkel about your brilliant earlier test / suggestion.

Setup charger at 6A and charging rather than diverting to grid AND still left excess for the house and diverter !

Happy PVing... sorry for off_topic !

KCross · 14-05-2019 05:07PM

unkel wrote: »

Let's say the Zappi costs €400 more than a basic charger.

Zappi v1 is €585 delivered to your door from ElectricAutos.ie

A dumb Rolec is £400+ from the UK, so there is ~€100 between them. And if you add on optional kWh meters and locks etc to a Rolec you are up to Zappi money.

Zappi v2 will be more expensive for the new UK regs but if you spec a Rolec with the new regs they are also more expensive. There isnt much between them to be honest.

unkel · 14-05-2019 06:15PM

You can get a second hand charger for around €200 if you are prepared to be on the lookout for a while.

And if you already have a charger installed, replacing it with a Zappi (with no subsidy) would make no sense at all. Sure if you have a large array, get the €600 subsidy and if you're home during the day most days, it might still make sense. If not, then not. Certainly not if you expect a FIT in the next few years.

Shefwedfan · 14-05-2019 06:29PM

Havent looked at this thread in a while....any sign of a reduction in the cost of solar? or has it just increased more?

KCross · 14-05-2019 06:30PM

unkel wrote: »

You can get a second hand charger for around €200 if you are prepared to be on the lookout for a while.

ok, but thats new vs secondhand. Not a fair comparison. Its like saying you shouldnt buy a new car because you can buy one to do the same job for €500?

Switching your existing charger for a Zappi (just for Solar PV reasons) with no grant would be costly alright and is, as you say, not worth it.

Your €400 was referring to someone with no charger though?

Evd-Burner · 14-05-2019 07:55PM

When I get the house I will be going for the Zappi straight away, as it allows me to charge off excess solar in the future. It also negate the need of having a priority switch. On top of that I will also qualify for a grant of 600 towards getting the charger! Win win.

rolion · 14-05-2019 08:41PM

Evd-Burner wrote: »

When I get the house I will be going for the Zappi straight away, as it allows me to charge off excess solar in the future. It also negate the need of having a priority switch. On top of that I will also qualify for a grant of 600 towards getting the charger! Win win.

I think is a foollish ideea ... Nice one.
You will need a healthy minimum installed PV power to have 3.3Kw for EV and rest for overheads. And that in a good day,may to september ... A N D ... while the car is resting in front of the house of course,day time.

Until then think how much a car will have as a minimum charge so that it will not steal from the grid and use only excess energy from the generated PVs.
How many chargers could provide a minimum setting for the EV charge !? Does your charger has this functionality ? Does the car has it built-in ? I dont know,sorry .

Maybe a user and owner can provide few graphs showing that the production of the PVs versus EV charging and rate of feeding the electrons from PV to car and / or from grid. I am still looking for a graph these days... but i'm getting only words.

Good luck.

I says · 14-05-2019 08:47PM

Hello long time lurker first time posting got a quote today 10 panel estimate performance of 2,700 per yr and a 14 panel 4.8kw battery. I’m thinking about the batteries down the line as most of our needs are after five most enenings. Has anyone a similar setup of both for usage?
EST cost after grant for both is circa 7k and battery 11k any advice or opinions please.
Usage around house and farm 6,800kw per year.

niallers1 · 14-05-2019 08:52PM

I says wrote: »

Hello long time lurker first time posting got a quote today 10 panel estimate performance of 2,700 per yr and a 14 panel 4.8kw battery. I’m thinking about the batteries down the line as most of our needs are after five most enenings. Has anyone a similar setup of both for usage?
EST cost after grant for both is circa 7k and battery 11k any advice or opinions please.
Usage around house and farm 6,800kw per year.

I have a 4.2kw east west array with 4.8kwh pylontech battery. 14* 300w panels.

Paid about 6k after grant.

You get a grant of 1k for the battery so why not put in a small one (2.4kwh pylontech) that you can add to later when the price comes down.

Prices will vary depending on a few things. Tesla or LG Chem battery will be more expensive than lesser known Pylontech.

wexfordman2 · 14-05-2019 09:11PM

Evd-Burner wrote: »

BobFedora wrote: »

well, thats it really. i know that paying for PV and a new cylinder isn't the smartest thing to do with my money financially. i could pay circa 8k off my mortgage instead.
but,
-small change environmentally is better than nothing
-i (or some combination of me, wife, child) wil be in the house for another 20+ yrs minimum so long term planning
-i like the idea of having 200L of hot water mostly for free (my current HW cylinder is 120L)

Adding the diverter and adding the hot tank is not making any difference environmentally by having the inverter. You would environmentally make a bigger impact giving the juice away to the grid for free!

You also aren't saving any money on the inverter and new water tank either, it's actually costing you! The break even point would be 30+ years! That's without anything breaking or you getting an electric car in the future.

Now getting an electric car and getting a Zappi charger that can use exactly what you would be exporting to the grid will make a difference both financially and environmentally, you would need a charger for the car irregardless.

Not that I am.diasagreeing, but could you explain the logic.

How is using a diverter not environmentally.sound,.or how is exporting your excess more.envirinmentally.sound ?

midship · 14-05-2019 09:46PM

I have been following this thread closely and am about to take the plunge into PV. I don’t understand some of the prices quoted..

I came across this kit (https://solartricity.ie/grant-kit-2x7-panel-1/) that seems almost perfect for what I want, 4.6k ex vat which seems to leave me eligible for 3.8k grant. I was thinking somewhere in the region of 1.5k - 2k for an install (single story building, no complexities. So maybe 7k then, add in vat take away the grant and so I was expecting 3.5-4K net.. maybe I am missing something obvious but why are people considering 6-7k a good price?

Also Im reading mixed feedback on planning, as the size will be less than 50% of the roof so I assume I’ll be exempt?

Finally and Unfortunately one side of the roof will be east and the other west, I was thinking to put 7 panels on each side, has anyone experience of such a set up and will it dramatically reduce output?

Thanks

KCross · 14-05-2019 10:31PM

Evd-Burner wrote: »

When I get the house I will be going for the Zappi straight away, as it allows me to charge off excess solar in the future. It also negate the need of having a priority switch. On top of that I will also qualify for a grant of 600 towards getting the charger! Win win.

In your scenario its the right choice assuming the Zappi is reliable (remains to be seen).

It doesnt really matter if you use the SolarPV element of it or not it still make sense.

rolion wrote: »

I think is a foollish ideea ... Nice one.
You will need a healthy minimum installed PV power to have 3.3Kw for EV and rest for overheads. And that in a good day,may to september ... A N D ... while the car is resting in front of the house of course,day time.

Until then think how much a car will have as a minimum charge so that it will not steal from the grid and use only excess energy from the generated PVs.
How many chargers could provide a minimum setting for the EV charge !? Does your charger has this functionality ? Does the car has it built-in ? I dont know,sorry .

You need about 2kW of excess to charge the EV (not 3.3kW).... looks like you had 3-4kW from 10:00-17:00 today.... that would have put a decent charge into your Leaf.

And of course, yes, it requires the car to be at home. For some people it is at home... If its not for you then it makes no sense.

Evd-Burner · 14-05-2019 11:04PM

rolion wrote: »

I think is a foollish ideea ... Nice one.
You will need a healthy minimum installed PV power to have 3.3Kw for EV and rest for overheads. And that in a good day,may to september ... A N D ... while the car is resting in front of the house of course,day time.

Until then think how much a car will have as a minimum charge so that it will not steal from the grid and use only excess energy from the generated PVs.
How many chargers could provide a minimum setting for the EV charge !? Does your charger has this functionality ? Does the car has it built-in ? I dont know,sorry .

Maybe a user and owner can provide few graphs showing that the production of the PVs versus EV charging and rate of feeding the electrons from PV to car and / or from grid. I am still looking for a graph these days... but i'm getting only words.

Good luck.

A foolish idea how exactly? I need a charger anyway or else I have no way of charging my car!

The Zappi sends to the car only what would be sent to the grid, I don't yet have a graph as I don't have solar and the charger but irregardless the Zappi works for me as it negates the need to have a priority switch for the electric shower.

Have a read of this setup with the Zappi charging a leaf with solar panels. Look at the graphs and see how the self consumption matches the solar production.

wexfordman2 wrote: »

Not that I am.diasagreeing, but could you explain the logic.

How is using a diverter not environmentally.sound,.or how is exporting your excess more.envirinmentally.sound ?

This is because it is more efficient (in terms of CO2 output) to heat water via natural gas than it is to heat via electricity. Basically the electricity instead of being wasted on thermal generation can be used directly as electricity where it is needed during the day, instead of the grid having to produce more to make up the difference.
Technically the diverter would make an environmental difference, but exporting to the grid would make more of a difference for the time being.

KCross wrote: »

In your scenario its the right choice assuming the Zappi is reliable (remains to be seen).

It doesnt really matter if you use the SolarPV element of it or not it still make sense.

You need about 2kW of excess to charge the EV (not 3.3kW).... looks like you had 3-4kW from 10:00-17:00 today.... that would have put a decent charge into your Leaf.

And of course, yes, it requires the car to be at home. For some people it is at home... If its not for you then it makes no sense.

I've used all sorts of EVSE's from all different manufacturers including high end ones in work and I have had issues with them all! Including having to send a chargemaster back under warranty. Surely Zappi can't be any worse?

Also the Zappi instructs the car via the communication wires on what amperage to charge it, so it in theory can go below 2kw, how efficient that is though I don't know!

Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

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