"Book readers" - Season 8 Episode 4 "The Last of the Stark" - Spoilers post 2 fo

Paddy Cow · 06-05-2019 05:34PM

Riddle101 wrote: »

As a fan of Tyrion in the early series and in the books, it really annoys me what they've done to him. They've turned him from a clever, astute and politically savvy man into a fool. Tyrion almost fell into the same trap he did in the last season when he tried to reason with Cersei by appealing to her love for her kids while trying to spare the people of Kings Landing. Cersei does not care about the common people and never has. She's also murderous, manipulative and treacherous. Why would Tyrion think that he could reason with her? "You're not a monster"? She's probably the biggest monster in the whole series.

It's about as believable as the Hound riding to KL to have a reconciliation with the Mountain. Tyrion was always the anti-thesis of Jamie. Someone who couldn't fight but used his smarts to get out of many situations. He out witted everyone he came up against and was brilliant as the Hand in KL and he enjoyed it. Having him try to plead with Cersei again was beyond lame. It served no purpose other than as a plot device to let Euron know the kid isn't his.

lawlolawl · 06-05-2019 05:55PM

Falthyron wrote: »

True. Sure, she has paid good money for Bronn to kill him. She would much rather ask one man with a crossbow to kill her little brother and pay him handsomely than ask one soldier beside her to do it for free. What was I thinking?!

Yeah, the entire Bronn thing is absolutely ridiculous.

Him walking right into Winterfell unhindered and sort of just wandering into the room that two of Danys most valuable allies are in was just silly.

Even sillier was him being bought off so easily. He saw nothing new to suggest that Dany was going to win the upcoming war and, in fact, would probably have noticed that her military might was considerably diminished.

leggo · 06-05-2019 05:58PM

Mokuba wrote: »

Stop just wanting it to be bad!

It's clear that certain people in this thread have made up their minds about the show being above all criticism and any criticism is seen as contrary and to be edgy.

I criticise it all the time. Feel free to go back over my posts. In the past week alone on here, I slated last series’ episodes 5&6 based around the capture the wight plan, hated them.

Last week: hated Lyanna killing the giant.

This week: hated Jon just abandoning Ghost for no reason, hated when they spelled out the Hero’s Journey in Tyrion and Varys’ conversation. I slept out the episode and, when I watched it this morning, was okay that this was the episode I slept out.

But I can hate these moments/episodes then step back and view episodes/seasons/the show as a whole as a net positive. I’m also not arrogant enough to assume that just because I had issues with aspects that it’s bad or that everyone else should hate it. I have biases, I have my own specific personal taste, some things aren’t for me. I can look at the one part of Endgame that I hated (no spoilers but ‘the girls’ for anyone who’s seen it) and admit it’s not for me and may have worked for others. I try to be fair and take my word seriously.

Hyzepher · 06-05-2019 06:01PM

I think Tyrion will have a moment of clarity in the next episode.

The way the season is panning out I now believe that the best thing that can happen to GOT would be if Cersei wins. At this point if she does lose then there isn't a real successor that any of the fans will be happy with.

John - too naive, like Ned, to rule. Doesn't want it but might take it to save everyone from Dany.
Dany - too likely to turn out like her dad
Sansa - a good choice but unlikely to provide the close-out that fans will want
Tyrion - will never be accepted by the people to really be taken seriously as king.

If they pull off the biggest twist and let Cersai win then at least they will have shown up the other to be the idiots they are. Heck, even Euron would be a better winner than John or Dany at this stage. Maybe Not

Falthyron · 06-05-2019 06:14PM

Hyzepher wrote: »

I think Tyrion will have a moment of clarity in the next episode.

The way the season is panning out I now believe that the best thing that can happen to GOT would be if Cersei wins. At this point if she does lose then there isn't a real successor that any of the fans will be happy with.

John - too naive, like Ned, to rule. Doesn't want it but might take it to save everyone from Dany.
Dany - too likely to turn out like her dad
Sansa - a good choice but unlikely to provide the close-out that fans will want
Tyrion - will never be accepted by the people to really be taken seriously as king.

If they pull off the biggest twist and let Cersai win then at least they will have shown up the other to be the idiots they are. Heck, even Euron would be a better winner than John or Dany at this stage. Maybe Not

Dany has spoken about 'Breaking the Wheel' and I can't be the only one who interpreted this as removing monarchy and replacing it with some sort of democracy/republic or even a council. I think this is the only way forward for Westeros and it can deliver a bittersweet ending - everyone dies, but Westeros will move on without an iron throne.

RobbingBandit · 06-05-2019 06:22PM

No chance is she looking at democracy all she keeps saying is no one will keep her from her throne. Medievalist society is unsuitable for democracy the people are uneducated and seek guidance from above their station oligarchy works to the extent of keeping control to a small council, democracy opens the gates to climbing the ladder next thing a butcher is king and we all know how that turned out.

LadySkunk · 06-05-2019 06:53PM

I personally enjoyed the episode. Am I p!ssed we didn’t get to see the immediate aftermath of Arya killing the NK and the fact he’s just gone and nothing more was said about it? I sure am but I’m not letting it take away from the fact that these are the last few episodes and the last few times we’re going to see the characters we’ve been watching for the past eight years.

Squeeled like a giddy school girl when Jamie and Brienne hooked up, Jamie is harbouring some serious guilt over everything he done for Cersai and I reckon he sees Brienne and how honorable she is and that helped him make the decision to go after Cersai. I don’t think he’s turning back to bad Jamie.

Also enjoyed Tormunds comedic relief, it was needed in an episode where everything else had gone so serious.

Surprised Gendry said nothing to Arya not wanting to be a lady, he always knew that about her and loved her anyway so a bit shocked he didn’t say that?

In the godswood when the Starks were talking, I loved how Sansa called Jon a Stark. She has completely changed from S1 and even the talk she had with the hound was a touching moment.

Emilia Clarke is a brilliant actor too, Rhegal had to die. You can see it in her face each time she loses someone close to her, leaving her with nobody around her she can trust. I can imagine she’ll get wind of Tyrion and Varys’ treason and just completely lose it.

Maysa07 · 06-05-2019 06:57PM

Not even a pat on the head for poor Ghost.

Who the **** warned you that there was a wight in LC Mormont’s room? GHOST
Who found the dragon glass at the Fist? GHOST
Who stood vigil at your dead body?GHOST
The symbol of house Stark and u send him off with a wildling???

Don't like Jon :pac:

titan18 · 06-05-2019 07:01PM

I think everyone missed the worst thing. They moved Kings Landing on the map. Watch the credits again. City fecking moved

WinnyThePoo · 06-05-2019 07:03PM

Folks the reason tyrion talked to cersei in the manner he did was to avoid the impending carnage and slaughter of innocents.

Baffling that went over people's head considering the conversation tyrion and varys had earlier in the episode.

lawlolawl · 06-05-2019 07:05PM

TheSkunk wrote: »

Emilia Clarke is a brilliant actor too

LOL

The White Wolf · 06-05-2019 07:19PM

lawlolawl wrote: »

LOL

For me she's really grown into the role of Dany. I did think she was fantastic in this episode. The actors and the character dynamics are what's keeping me holding on until the end as I've resigned myself to the ending of this story pissing me off.

But yes beyond GoT, she hasn't been great. Woefully miscast as Sarah Connor.

Kunkka · 06-05-2019 07:26PM

That was a really good episode in my opinion. Good politics and the old school GOT tension. Growing frustrated reading so many posts picking holes in every episode. They had so much to pack into two short seasons, and it is extremely rare for a show of this popularity and scale to go to 9 seasons. Overall in seasons 1-8 they've done an incredible job.

A few things I think I've picked up. I sadly believe Jon is going to die. The goodbyes in Winterfell to Sam and Thormund seemed a bit too obvious for me, along with the naming of the baby as Jon. I hope I am wrong but I can see in the last episode during Jon's funeral a switch to Ghost howling in the North beyond the wall as a fitting way to go.

Dany is brown bread too in my opinion. Show is going in that direction with all the politics in that episode. With me expecting Jon to die now I just don't see how they could line her up with anyone else at this stage in Westeros with her as queen.

Don't be fooled by the show. Jaime is going to kill Cersei, not to join her, but if he isn't I will be astounded as that just makes his repdemtion a total waste! I think he'll be pushed over the edge by Cersei killing Tyrion or maybe threating to blow up the city, thinking the latter as I am changing my mind on Tyrion's survival chances as the episodes go on. He's becoming relevant again after a few seasons of just doing Dany's will.

Clegane bowl is on, and maybe Ayra will save the hound near death by knocking the Mountain off her list. Either way, it's going to be pretty epic and the nerd in my cant wait.

As for the throne, what about Gendry? Now legitimized and the rightful heir to Robert. "You have a daughter, I have a son" etc etc. Seems a little more plausible after that episode doesn't it?(it was what Ned wanted too) Hard to believe him being named Lord of Storm's End was just to propose to Ayra, or maybe she just goes for that option in the end.

lawlolawl · 06-05-2019 07:48PM

Jon: "I need to tell you something.........Ok bran you say it"

/cut to the next scene

leggo · 06-05-2019 07:51PM

I got the Jon dying vibes myself, then again they faked us all out with Greyworm so who knows if they’re trying to get us thinking that?

Kunkka · 06-05-2019 08:01PM

leggo wrote: »

I got the Jon dying vibes myself, then again they faked us all out with Greyworm so who knows if they’re trying to get us thinking that?

Yeah true, but it felt a bit different.

He didn't say goodbye to Sansa though so maybe there is hope. The Ghost thing just has me confused. Why keep him in the series until the end if it isn't for some sort of purpose...?

Dave_The_Sheep · 06-05-2019 08:27PM

Jesus. I'm not sure what's more stupid. The characters that the writers are turning into idiots, or the expectations they have from us as an audience.

I'm not even sure I'm going to bother watching the last two episodes. This is beyond farcical.

lawlolawl · 06-05-2019 08:58PM

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmZCICwJ0E4

This scene took place outside of Kings Landing.

Last nights final scene apparently had Kings Landing teleported to where Mereen used to be.

leggo · 06-05-2019 08:58PM

Kunkka wrote: »

Yeah true, but it felt a bit different.

He didn't say goodbye to Sansa though so maybe there is hope. The Ghost thing just has me confused. Why keep him in the series until the end if it isn't for some sort of purpose...?

I hated it tbh. Now, having said that, Ghost’s little whimper as he watched Jon leave was actually the first moment ever in GoT that made me cry, but I’m also just a sucker for dogs. I think the logic would be they’re giving Ghost a farewell and letting us know he lives happily ever after when we don’t see him again, but still.

06-05-2019 09:11PM

lawlolawl wrote: »

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NmZCICwJ0E4

This scene took place outside of Kings Landing.

Last nights final scene apparently had Kings Landing teleported to where Mereen used to be.

I agree, it was like Dany rocking up to Meereen to take it over rather than Kings Landing. All we were missing was a pissing Daario Naharis. I remember at the conclusion of Season 7, winter had reached Kings Landing but now a few episodes later...we're back to sand and sun.

Also, Varys talking about 'serving the realm' once again and his hopes for the common people. That's welcome, but - It would be nice to actually see the 'common people' or what exactly our heroes are fighting for. It feels like ever since Cersei's walk of shame, normal Westerosi inhabitants don't really exist. The show is now our main characters and battle extras, and the world of Westeros has taken a major back seat in these past 2 seasons.

As Cersei stood on the wall of Kings Landing, you didn't actually get the feeling that there was much life or activity in that huge city behind her. Unlike in earlier seasons where Kings Landing genuinely felt like a real city populated with a million people.

lawlolawl · 06-05-2019 09:21PM

Deleted User wrote: »

I agree, it was like Dany rocking up to Meereen to take it over rather than Kings Landing. All we were missing was a pissing Daario Naharis. I remember at the conclusion of Season 7, winter had reached Kings Landing but now a few episodes later...we're back to sand and sun.

Also, Varys talking about 'serving the realm' once again and his hopes for the common people. That's welcome, but - It would be nice to actually see the 'common people' or what exactly our heroes are fighting for. It feels like ever since Cersei's walk of shame, normal Westerosi inhabitants don't really exist. The show is now our main characters and battle extras, and the world of Westeros has taken a major back seat in these past 2 seasons.

As Cersei stood on the wall of Kings Landing, you didn't actually get the feeling that there was much life or activity in that huge city behind her. Unlike in earlier seasons where Kings Landing genuinely felt like a real city populated with a million people.

This was a shot of Kings Landing from one of the earlier seasons.

It's a desert now because of reasons.

Dave_The_Sheep · 06-05-2019 09:23PM

There were those last season who make light of the magical teleporting ability and lack of actual time passing now. It's beyond silly at this point.

Cersei is pregnant mid-late last season. Since then:

- They've sailed up to the wall from King's Landing.
- Gone north of the wall, to capture an undead.
- The Wall is destroyed and the Night King marches his (very slow) army south toward Winterfell.
- Captured an undead. Sailed it back to King's Landing.
- The Council of ~~Elrond~~ King's Landing happens.
- The armies march north to Winterfell.
- The Battle of Winterfell.
- They sail back to King's Landing and here we all are. They even say it'll take weeks for the army to arrive.

Cersei doesn't even have a mild bump. In previous seasons, all the above would have taken years. Now, it's apparently maybe a week or two?

Still going to defend it?

Twenty Grand · 06-05-2019 09:25PM

Movementarian wrote: »

Didn't realise balista type siege weapons could have machine gun rates of fire?! I mean I know its a fantasy show but come on they could at least try to make it realistic, those things would need a serious reload time to be that poweful.

Cant help but feel this is all just to try and make Cersei and her tiny army a worse threat than literal death in the white walkers and zombies etc.

Really annoying episodes in general.

I was annoyed how quick Brown reloaded the crossbow.

Dave_The_Sheep · 06-05-2019 09:27PM

Twenty Grand wrote: »

I was annoyed how quick Brown reloaded the crossbow.

That whole scene was just idiotic.

Gbear · 06-05-2019 10:13PM

That was absolute tripe.

I'm hardly going to stop 2 episodes before the end of a a 7 season show, but I certainly wont miss it when it's gone.

It'll be interesting to see what the legacy of this show will be. I suspect very little of the last couple of seasons will live long in memory. It'll still be referencing back to Bean, Addy and Dance, the Red Wedding and the Battle of castle black, but probably nothing since.

lawlolawl · 06-05-2019 10:28PM

Also:

https://twitter.com/antisansa/status/1118015556995702784/photo/1?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw%7Ctwcamp%5Etweetembed%7Ctwterm%5E1118015556995702784&ref_url=https%3A%2F%2Fforums.somethingawful.com%2Fshowthread.php%3Fthreadid%3D3821570%26userid%3D0%26perpage%3D40%26pagenumber%3D324

06-05-2019 10:40PM

Dave_The_Sheep wrote: »

That whole scene was just idiotic.

You mean how he just waltzed into that room with a crossbow and no one else in Winterfell blinked an eye?

It'd be something if we knew Bronn visited Winterfell before and was familiar with the layout of the place, but the fact that he just managed to walk into the one room Tyrion and Jaime were in is typical of the show at this stage.

lawlolawl · 06-05-2019 10:47PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You mean how he just waltzed into that room with a crossbow and no one else in Winterfell blinked an eye?

It'd be something if we knew Bronn visited Winterfell before and was familiar with the layout of the place, but the fact that he just managed to walk into the one room Tyrion and Jaime were in is typical of the show at this stage.

It's literally just teleporting people around the map to have "moments" of pure fan service for people who still somehow think that this show hasn't turned into absolute Marvel-esque ****e.

I don't care who wins now because the characters/scenes are being written to be whatever the fans on social media want.

Dave_The_Sheep · 06-05-2019 10:48PM

Deleted User wrote: »

You mean how he just waltzed into that room with a crossbow and no one else in Winterfell blinked an eye?

It'd be something if we knew Bronn visited Winterfell before and was familiar with the layout of the place, but the fact that he just managed to walk into the one room Tyrion and Jaime were in is typical of the show at this stage.

Not just that, but as you say, that's idiotic.

The dialogue was off-point. The characters were decided out of character and acted like they didn't actually like each other at all. These are characters with serious history together. I don't care how much of a merc you think Bronn is, and he is, that scene was badly put together.

mr_cochise · 06-05-2019 10:50PM

Deleted User wrote:

It'd be something if we knew Bronn visited Winterfell before and was familiar with the layout of the place, but the fact that he just managed to walk into the one room Tyrion and Jaime were in is typical of the show at this stage.

Maybe they should have done a 5 minute montage of Bronn asking for directions to the two boys and occasionally narrowly missing them, and just when it looked like he was never going to find them he suddenly smiles and goes directly to where they are. That Bryan McFadden song with Delta could've been the music.

"Book readers" - Season 8 Episode 4 "The Last of the Stark" - Spoilers post 2 fo

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