"Book readers" - Season 8 Episode 4 "The Last of the Stark" - Spoilers post 2 fo

fitz

Gbear wrote: »

Their weaknesses are less a fundamental problem and more down to poor pacing and chopping up of plot threads too thinly across several books, and some needless wheel spinning. I can see that being tightened up pretty handily for TV.

Also, book 5 is incorrect. Book 6 is arguably the best in the series. It's afterwards the dawdling begins.

Yup, judicious editing will serve WOT very well.
And 100% agree, end of book 6 is probably the best part of the whole series.

I tried Malazan but it just felt pointless and impenetrable.

GTFO.
Nah, being seriously... Malazan isn't for everyone - you're certainly expected to pay attention and work things out without explanations, but the payoffs make it so worth the effort. One of the books made me so upset you I threw it across the room at one point. Was left an emotional wreck at other points, and I actually didn't read anything for at least 6 months after finishing the last book. I couldn't... Anything else I picked up felt paper thin. I re-read ASOIAF just to ease my way back into non-Erikson writing.

Give it a go, if you still think it's not for you by the end of book two, then it's definitely not. If it's started to get it's hooks in you at that stage, keep going, you won't regret it.

Nerdlingr

Absolute utter scutter ****e of an episode. I'll watch it to the end but to be honest I couldn't give a fiddler's f*ck who ends up on the throne at the end. They've ruined the show. It's one big fan service now. I could go into detail but I couldn't be arsed.

Nerdlingr

Nerdlingr wrote: »

Absolute utter scutter ****e of an episode. I'll watch it to the end but to be honest I couldn't give a fiddler's f*ck who ends up on the throne at the end. They've ruined the show. It's one big fan service now. I could go into detail but I couldn't be arsed.

Everyone I've talked to feels the same. I don't know where these people who love each episode are; I'm not meeting any of them.

Keyzer

Deleted User wrote: »

Everyone I've talked to feels the same. I don't know where these people who love each episode are; I'm not meeting any of them.

I got lashed out of it by 3 people at the weekend for my critique on EP03. I haven't even spoken to them about EP4.

I was accused of nit picking and being negative.

RobbingBandit

She could have incinerated the iron fleet with just Drogon silly Dragon Queen. I'm surprised Euron doesn't have a water dragon now, what is dead may never die.

Keyzer

Keyzer wrote: »

I got lashed out of it by 3 people at the weekend for my critique on EP03. I haven't even spoken to them about EP4.

I was accused of nit picking and being negative.

Thankfully, I only see that online. Thinking about what you're seeing is apparently ubernerd stuff now.

johnnyskeleton

Paddy Cow wrote: »

Greyworm says whatever the writers want him to say. We all saw the Unsullied lined up outside Winterfell and they were ordered by Greyworm to hold the retreat and then he sacrificed them. There is no way half survived when they were caught between the trenches and the undead and then we saw the undead surround the trenches. They wiped out the Unsullied but Dany needs an army so we have to pretend half survived.

How about the army of undead is a mindless weaponless mob which swept over them knocking them to the ground or injuring them but not killing all of then. The ones that werent killed in the onslaught were then outside their line as they stormed the castle and were regrouping to attack when the nights king was killed? This sort of thing happened a lot in medieval era battles apparently, where relatively few people died in the melee but were routed or crushed or injured.

Keyzer

johnnyskeleton wrote: »

How about the army of undead is a mindless weaponless mob which swept over them knocking them to the ground or injuring them but not killing all of then. The ones that werent killed in the onslaught were then outside their line as they stormed the castle and were regrouping to attack when the nights king was killed? This sort of thing happened a lot in medieval era battles apparently, where relatively few people died in the melee but were routed or crushed or injured.

How about were shown that for 5 seconds in episode 3? Instead of the audience having to make this stuff up themselves. Instead of anyone with half a brain figuring out this is nonsense/poor writing in a second.

Sleepy

Saw this on Reddit: a fan-made re-edit of the Rhaegal being killed that makes infinitely more sense than what we got in the last episode. Sure, it still has it's problems but it just goes to show the levels D&D are going to in order to prioritise shock value over coherant storytelling:

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/blw6oa/a_more_realistic_edit_of_the_rhaegal_death_scene/

Even with the material they had already shot, they could have told a better story!

Sleepy

Sleepy wrote: »

Saw this on Reddit: a fan-made re-edit of the Rhaegal being killed that makes infinitely more sense than what we got in the last episode. Sure, it still has it's problems but it just goes to show the levels D&D are going to in order to prioritise shock value over coherant storytelling:

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/blw6oa/a_more_realistic_edit_of_the_rhaegal_death_scene/

Even with the material they had already shot, they could have told a better story!

Yeah; that works so much better even if it does not excuse the fact that Euron has ambushed them again!!
This time in view of Dragonstone and the AIR!

Keyzer

Keyzer wrote: »

That would have worked - definitely makes more sense than what we were given.

Still though, they had no business being out on the open sea knowing what they know about Euron, his capabilities at sea and the amount of ships he has.

TBF they had 2 dragons that should have been enough to take out any great Naval fleet, no matter the capabilities of the captain.

But then they gave him the laser beamed giant arrows, which is the real problem imo

TerrorFirmer

It pisses me off something fierce that a simple edit using only material from the episode like that improves it tenfold.

I usually try to avoid things like that, because it gets me riled up at the sheer simplicity involved in correcting glaring issues.

Sleepy

Sleepy wrote: »

Saw this on Reddit: a fan-made re-edit of the Rhaegal being killed that makes infinitely more sense than what we got in the last episode. Sure, it still has it's problems but it just goes to show the levels D&D are going to in order to prioritise shock value over coherant storytelling:

https://www.reddit.com/r/freefolk/comments/blw6oa/a_more_realistic_edit_of_the_rhaegal_death_scene/

Even with the material they had already shot, they could have told a better story!

Thats crazy how much better that is

Haha.. that edit is actually way better..

Blows my mind that a fan can make a better scene with only what the show provided...

Paddy Cow

Deleted User wrote: »

Blows my mind that a fan can make a better scene with only what the show provided...

It puts to bed ardent supporters who say "it's all good and well criticising the show but could YOU come up with a better story?". Well actually yes. Someone with just a basic windows movie package could actually edit the footage into a much better story. Imagine what that person could have done with a budget of millions?

The White Wolf

[Deleted User] wrote: »

Thats crazy how much better that is

Still shat for me. As someone said on Reddit they made those things the most bloody powerful weapons in Westeros just get a handy excuse to even the odds a bit more.

awec

The edit is better but still doesn't explain the invisible fleet. The height she was flying she would spot the ships miles away, long before they are in range of shooting her.

I don't think the scene really works on any level. If they needed to kill a dragon then killing him last week would have made more sense.

Mr Crispy

A bank of sea fog would have made things much easier to swallow (and cheaper to shoot).

Darch Nemesis

Darch Nemesis wrote: »

A bank of sea fog would have made things much easier to swallow (and cheaper to shoot).

After last week's ice fog?

The White Wolf

Darch Nemesis wrote: »

A bank of sea fog would have made things much easier to swallow (and cheaper to shoot).

You oul whooer I see what you did there.

The White Wolf

The White Wolf wrote: »

You oul whooer I see what you did there.

Where as I was blinded by the (red) mist of the crappy battle

Mr Crispy

Deleted User wrote: »

After last week's ice fog?

It doesn't have to be an impenetrable mess.

facehugger99

Finally caught up with it last night.

I can honestly say I'm glad it's finishing up in 2 episode because it's going down the toilet at a rapid rate. The writing has become a parody of itself, there's so much of the show that makes absolutely no sense, internal logic has been flung out of the window like a 9 year old child.

There was so much stupid, from the Iron Fleet 'ambush' to Bronn strolling into Winterfell, interspersed with long periods of water-threading.

It's a show that has more good episodes than bad and I will regard it very fondly, but right now I'm pissed off at the lazy writing.

But I'm sure they got a load of morons to whoop and holler in a bar - so go them.

It honestly defies belief that there are people who have read the books defending the **** that's being served up.

Ri_Nollaig

awec wrote: »

The edit is better but still doesn't explain the invisible fleet. The height she was flying she would spot the ships miles away, long before they are in range of shooting her.

I don't think the scene really works on any level. If they needed to kill a dragon then killing him last week would have made more sense.

Actually does to be fair

This solves some problems of that scene:

Dany isn't completely surprised by Eurons appearance due to her view

Rhaegal isnt killed unexpectedly by sniper shots but by the barrage of spears

Dany rushes in only before she's aware that Euron has the scorpions, she retreats quickly after

Obviously, I could have still done even better, but I only had what was given

Its unreal how just a fan made edit made that scene better nearly instantly.

Its shocking how the quality has dropped off a cliff. But I guess HBO are still making money hand over fist from this so don't really care.

Thought this was a good video summarising how we all loved this show and how it just has all gone wrong recently

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qvRDXZqczhY

Honestly, why was there a 2 year wait between this and the previous season?
...nothing in this season has justified it yet and I have little hope the next two episodes will change my mind.

s7ryf3925pivug

Episode is rated 6.4 on IMDb. No other episode is rated under 8.