Avengers: Endgame [ SPOILERS FROM POST 613 ]

Sad Professor · 04-05-2019 03:03PM

I'm sure this has been discussed already, but re: the time travel, I assume they were doing alternate timelines? Hence why killing past Thanos didn't cause a paradox? If so they explained that really badly. When Hulk did his spiel about how you can't change the past I assumed he meant time was a closed loop, i.e. "whatever happened, happened".

Zubeneschamali · 04-05-2019 03:45PM

Sad Professor wrote: »

I'm sure this has been discussed already, but re: the time travel, I assume they were doing alternate timelines? Hence why killing past Thanos didn't cause a paradox?

Yes, there is a link upthread to a Q&A with the Russos where they say that's what they are aiming for.

But Prof. Huilks explanation was rubbish, the convo with Howard Stark misleading and Steve showing up at the end suggested a time loop, so they didn't do it very well.

Lithium93_ · 04-05-2019 07:02PM

The time travel logic in the film had a touch of Dragon Ball Z to it.

Sad Professor · 04-05-2019 07:47PM

It seems the writers and directors don't even agree about how the time travel works and what happened with Steve at the end.

https://www.slashfilm.com/endgame-time-travel-writers/

I think they were probably being deliberately obscure about the time travel logic in order to maintain the stakes (there's no drama in parallel timelines if you can just return to your original timeline as if nothing happened) and to keep their options open for bringing back dead characters in future films.

Calhoun · 04-05-2019 10:45PM

Brilliant film, i quite enjoyed it. I don't get all the hate over the female scene, i think the reason that its not as liked is that it was missing a primary female lead throughout the film.

Had Black Widow not died when she did and she was the center point in it i think it would have made allot more sense.

I didn't like the handing of the shield to Sam, or the Cap aging so fast but i do think Bucky was in on Cap's plan.

SureYWouldntYa · 04-05-2019 10:57PM

jaxxx wrote: »

Did anyone else cry when
Tony died
? No? Just me? Okay...............

Was a little teary eyed, but the "I love you 3000" at the end of the hologram to his daughter absolutely broke me and I was bloody weeping and sobbing

micks_address · 04-05-2019 11:05PM

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

Was a little teary eyed, but the "I love you 3000" at the end of the hologram to his daughter absolutely broke me and I was bloody weeping and sobbing

Yep my feicin daughter made me an iron Man card for my birthday with love you 3 thousand on it...talk about emotional blackmail

SureYWouldntYa · 04-05-2019 11:10PM

micks_address wrote: »

Yep my feicin daughter made me an iron Man card for my birthday with love you 3 thousand on it...talk about emotional blackmail

Be glad it didn't say she loved you in the 600-900 range :pac:

1800_Ladladlad · 05-05-2019 02:22AM

IMO , I think they royally fcuked it up. What they did to Thor was pathetic and made no sense when taking his position in the avengers, also towards the end of the movie, the virtuous feminist statement was the nail in the coffin. Tired of this forced bullsh*t

Franz Von Peppercorn · 05-05-2019 03:57AM

I watched it with my niece. No emotional investment except having watched maybe 8 or so MU movies, generally when they appear on Netflix or similar.

Loved it. There’s surely far more dialogue than most superhero movies and it was genuinely funny and touching. It wasn’t all fighting and CGI.

I wouldn’t worry too much about the problems with time travel as there always is that problem, nor what happens to the Earth after repopulation. It’s survived a lot of alien attacks in this universe.

I don’t even know what feminist scene people are talking about.

SureYWouldntYa · 05-05-2019 08:51AM

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

IMO , I think they royally fcuked it up. What they did to Thor was pathetic and made no sense when taking his position in the avengerst

The guy lost everybody close to him in a couple of days, had his homeplace destroyed, and had a chance to save things right at the end but didn’t go for the head

It makes sense that he might go off the rails, and the constant humour is in keeping with Thor post Age of Ultron, even if it was overplayed a bit but I didnt have any problems with what they did with Thor

Plus they’ve given thousands the chance to do a proper cosplay of him at ComicCon and the likes, so at least there’s that

MarkY91 · 05-05-2019 08:58AM

The Thor thing was funny but after visiting his ma, I expected him to go back to "normal"...kind of ridiculous.

Ave Sodalis · 05-05-2019 09:28AM

MarkY91 wrote:

The Thor thing was funny but after visiting his ma, I expected him to go back to "normal"...kind of ridiculous.

There was only about an hour from his talk with his mother, and Thanos 2 showing up. Emotionally or physically, it would be even more ridiculous to expect him back to normal. I believe him passing the mantle onto Valkyrie was him starting to heal.

MarkY91 · 05-05-2019 09:32AM

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

There was only about an hour from his talk with his mother, and Thanos 2 showing up. Emotionally or physically, it would be even more ridiculous to expect him back to normal. I believe him passing the mantle onto Valkyrie was him starting to heal.

Good point.

Mitch Connor · 05-05-2019 10:36AM

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

There was only about an hour from his talk with his mother, and Thanos 2 showing up. Emotionally or physically, it would be even more ridiculous to expect him back to normal. I believe him passing the mantle onto Valkyrie was him starting to heal.

Back to normal would be odd but 8 don't think there was any real tonal shift at all, he had no real progression in the movie, which given the starting point is off, imo.

Agent Coulson · 05-05-2019 04:28PM

Well it's flown past the Two Billion Dollar Box Office mark today.

Agent Coulson · 05-05-2019 04:33PM

Were the scenes with Natalie Portman actually shot for Endgame or were they outtakes from Thor 2?

Calhoun · 05-05-2019 04:35PM

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Well it's flown past the Two Billion Dollar Box Office mark today.

I am not surprised at all, look we all know that it isn't a perfect film. Its far from it but for a marvel film its great in my mind.

I am going again next Friday, i havent been to a film in ages that i have wanted to sit through twice.

Gbear · 05-05-2019 04:38PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Yes, there is a link upthread to a Q&A with the Russos where they say that's what they are aiming for.

But Prof. Huilks explanation was rubbish, the convo with Howard Stark misleading and Steve showing up at the end suggested a time loop, so they didn't do it very well.

The Russo's also explained he had to get back on his own. Presumably in that timeline he was able to get hold of the tech to send him home.

Zubeneschamali · 05-05-2019 04:45PM

Gbear wrote: »

Presumably in that timeline he was able to get hold of the tech to send him home.

Or any other made up story you'd like to imagine which wasn't on screen.

Zubeneschamali · 05-05-2019 04:46PM

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Were the scenes with Natalie Portman actually shot for Endgame or were they outtakes from Thor 2?

Unused footage, it was said upthread.

pixelburp · 05-05-2019 04:52PM

Calhoun wrote: »

I am not surprised at all, look we all know that it isn't a perfect film. Its far from it but for a marvel film its great in my mind.

I am going again next Friday, i havent been to a film in ages that i have wanted to sit through twice.

It's basically the cinematic equivalent of the final season of Game of Thrones. It's the end of a journey 10 years in the making and a solid lesson that if you put the work into the characters, the audience will follow.

Still finding it hard to care about what comes next. The phase 3 characters just aren't doing it for me, and Endgame feels like enough of a full stop that me and the MCU need a break...

pjohnson · 05-05-2019 04:56PM

pixelburp wrote: »

It's basically the cinematic equivalent of the final season of Game of Thrones. It's the end of a journey 10 years in the making and a solid lesson that if you put the work into the characters, the audience will follow.

Still finding it hard to care about what comes next. The phase 3 characters just aren't doing it for me, and Endgame feels like enough of a full stop that me and the MCU need a break...

They have a good moment now the timelines have been changed/introduced/muddied up to bring in the Fox contingent. Richards to fill the gap Stark leaves and so on. More importantly Galactus aswell etc. as he could be another overarching threat a la Thanos.

Gbear · 05-05-2019 05:14PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Or any other made up story you'd like to imagine which wasn't on screen.

It's the Russo's made up story that wasn't included on screen.

In the film we don't know how Steve got back. They didn't specify, but they did say he'd have to have used some kind of technology to get back and that he wasn't living his life with Peggy in his own timeline.

Zubeneschamali · 05-05-2019 05:21PM

Gbear wrote: »

It's the Russo's made up story that wasn't included on screen.

Nah, if they don't include it on screen, I can make up anything I like. Nothing in the film to contradict me.

So I think Steve did not create a new timeline/quantum whatever, he just travelled to the actual past and married Peggy in this timeline, the way it looks in the movie.

And somehow the MCU never got around to showing us who Peggy's husband in our timeline was, so why not Steve?

Calhoun · 05-05-2019 05:32PM

pixelburp wrote: »

It's basically the cinematic equivalent of the final season of Game of Thrones. It's the end of a journey 10 years in the making and a solid lesson that if you put the work into the characters, the audience will follow.

Still finding it hard to care about what comes next. The phase 3 characters just aren't doing it for me, and Endgame feels like enough of a full stop that me and the MCU need a break...

I hear that, it's crazy as even though it's something as stupid as a make believe world I do feel sad to see the likes of Robert Downey and Chris Evans bow out.

I went in thinking j was done with the MCU but I would make an exception for GOTG with Thor, Black Widow, would love a scarlet witch film (thought she was brilliant ) , hulk and finally some more growth for the Wakandans.

However, would like more self contained stories as opposed to a big avengers arc.

Gbear · 05-05-2019 05:54PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Nah, if they don't include it on screen, I can make up anything I like. Nothing in the film to contradict me.

So I think Steve did not create a new timeline/quantum whatever, he just travelled to the actual past and married Peggy in this timeline, the way it looks in the movie.

And somehow the MCU never got around to showing us who Peggy's husband in our timeline was, so why not Steve?

Because they established that that's not how time travel works in the film.

It was slightly ambiguous as to whether or not Steve turning up might have been a plot hole, but they clarified that he had to travel back to his present.

Just because it doesn't show the entirity of a car journey doesn't mean you're free to assume that the car might have sprouted wings at some point and flown some of the way. There are things that don't need to be explicit in a film because they're implied by existing rules.

I suppose it should've been obvious what happened when he reappeared out of thin air but the nature of time travel shenanigans is to make you have less confidence in your understanding of what's going on. It's one reason why I generally don't like it as a plot device, although if you're going to do it, I think the way they did is about as internally consistent as you can hope for.

Zubeneschamali · 05-05-2019 06:25PM

Gbear wrote: »

Because they established that that's not how time travel works in the film.

No, they really didn't.

They said afterwards how time travel is supposed to work in the film, but stuff on screen in the actual film does not support what they said.

For example, Tony travels back in time, meets his Dad, and tells his Dad that his Dad always said "No amount of money ever bought one second of time". His Dad did not say "Hey, I always say that!", he just went Hmm, and stored the quote away, to tell it to young Tony later.

This, on screen, is a clear bit of Back to the Future time travel, not at all what the Russos say now they thought was happening.

Of course, you can argue that Stark Snr. was not saying Hmm, he was saying Sonofabitch how did Potts Dad know my inspirational line? but no, that is not what we see.

There is also a link upthread to an interview with the writers, who disagree with the Russos about the sort of time travel which they wrote in the script.

Zubeneschamali · 05-05-2019 06:58PM

Thinking about it, I don't think the Pocket Universe timelike travel the Russos want will work at all with the plot of the movie.

You travel back and take a stone, a new reality branches off, fair enough.

The bit that doesn't work is Steve travels back later to replace the stone - nope, won't work, a new reality branches off where he returns the Time stone, but a reality where the time stone is gone he does not return and the Ancient One is screwed still exists.

If they had just said Hey, there are an infinity of realities, those 6 are screwed, too bad, we have their stones now, that would have worked. Also would have nearly made sense of the Ancient Ones speech about how it is the stones which create your perception of time passing.

Nearly.

Penn · 05-05-2019 07:16PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Unused footage, it was said upthread.

Can't remember where I read it, but I think she recorded new voice over (where you can hear her in the distance asking if they have any trousers rather than dresses or something like that) and then the footage of her was unused or a stand-in (the shot of her at a distance).

Maybe that was the bare minimum requirement to fulfil her deal from not appearing in the third Thor film (think she had a 3 film deal).

Avengers: Endgame [** SPOILERS FROM POST 613 **]

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Avengers: Endgame [ SPOILERS FROM POST 613 ]