Avengers: Endgame [** SPOILERS FROM POST 613 **]

pixelburp

Victor wrote: »

Not necessarily. There is now 50-100% more animals to eat.

Think of all those fields, farms and slaughterhouses that for 5 years lay completely fallow, maybe even destroyed through crime, war or whatnot (apparently, modern crops are so precision farmed & brittle, ordinary garden weeds, their growth unchecked, can completely kill the crop. IE, don't rely on wheat being around in the apocalypse!). Sanitation, refuse, electricity, dilapidated housing, the list goes on; plus, through Scott Lang we had a clear view that the ordinary world (San Fran) had become pretty rundown and like a slum. People will pop back into reality, into houses overrun with trash, rats and probable disease. Assuming this wasn't factored in by Prof. Hulk during his own snap.

Not to mention the simple emotional cost: you return from the 'dead' to find your wife or husband has moved on - your return could be devastating. Assuming they're even still around, the grief of such a sudden, mass disappearance must have had some pretty dark consequences that'd be way, waaaayyyyy beyond the scope of a PG-13 superhero film.

I know I know It's a big comic-book movie of talking trees etc., but the humanity and emotion was always earnest and played completely straight; it's why (for instance) Guardians worked so well, the characters inside the wackiness were still just people, all suffering & striving ...

The choice the writers made, basically trying to have their narrative cake and eat it, felt wrong to me and left the world in a pretty immediate, dire place. It's not my main takeaway from the film, don't get me wrong, but it just left a lingering thought about the world that can't be shifted...

I was very happy Korg & Meek were OK though.

Slydice

Doesn't even have to break a sweat to get above 2 billion this weekend!

Only needs about $236 million more

Worldwide: $1,764,251,786

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=marvel2019.htm

Ethereal Cereal

Victor wrote: »

Not necessarily. There is now 50-100% more animals to eat.

What Pixelburp said, but also the animals were halved in the snap too, all sentient creatures. Even with repopulation there would still be a shortage even 5 years later

khaldrogo

Just watched it again tonight.

Lost a little bit of the spark due to knowing what happens and felt a little drawn out but again, because I knew what was to come at the end. Still, amazing.


I love you 3000.....😭

cursai

pixelburp wrote: »

Well. That felt like an extended victory lap as much a resolution to a cliffhanger: the plot was little more than a thin window dressing to indulge in sequences of cameos, callbacks and revisits across the last 10 years of MCU films. Some of those cameos were a genuine surprise and delight - Robert Redford was my personal highlight, as was the subversion of Winter Soldier's elevator scene - while others more expected but no less emotionally impactful. It has been suggested - and I've been inclined to agree - that the MCU has effectively functioned as a long series of "hangout" films, the joy being in the characters, their interactions and crossovers, rather than the (sometimes subpar) action and adventure: Endgame felt like the final proof of this, where the 3 hours consisted of one long roll-call and check-in with this ragtag group of characters.

In making Endgame an ostensible 'series finale', genetically similar to the big final episode of a TV show, the growing feeling as I put distance between it and myself is that I might be done with the MCU. For now at least: like how we wait a year before the next season of our favourite show, Endgame was the closing of a chapter, a narrative full-stop - or at least a semi-colon anyway. Goodbyes were said, sunsets watched or walked into, and so on. The Spider-Man sequel, coming fast down the tracks and a few months away, arrives too soon after such a big emotional climax and it may go unseen. Part of that apathy may also be the creeping belief that the newer MCU characters just don't resonate to the same extent as the Phase 1 crew (or even Phase 2, with the Guardians); while I was keen to follow Thor, Cap, Quill, Gamora et al by dint of those arresting characters & performances, the likes of Captain Marvel just don't grab me (indeed, so far she comes off a bit of charisma vacuum). We shall see what the future holds in that respect.

As to the plot itself? Well, it was gubbins of the highest order, and like I said a mere excuse to put the players on the board; potential contradictions glibly brushed aside with writing that stopped short of turning to the camera and asking the audience to just go with it[*]. And like a lot of two parters, the pay-off just couldn't maintain the momentum and tension accrued in the first half (though the "left behind" aspects were a success). The last act also descended into another big battle, but kudos to the Russos are due, as it was a better staged and balanced set-piece than the visually bland, rote version we got in Infinity War. Indeed, a couple of scenes had some genuinely fist-pumping moment sorely lacking in that first part.


* By taking the decision to return everyone 5 years after The Snap, all for the sake of Stark's daughter, the script basically condemned humanity to struggle; the first act clearly established a world without hope, one of chaos and collapse. Restoring those 4+ billion people into a world with crumbling infrastructure - farming, political, economic and so on - would surely bring mass poverty, conflict and starvation to the world (not to mention all those personal tragedies with siblings, spouses and friends having to readdress their relationships). Oh, but Stark's daughter can still exist so that's OK?

'The Artist' was pretentious crap.

jaxxx

Did anyone else cry when

Tony died

? No? Just me? Okay...............

Kirby

silverharp wrote: »

did it ever come up what the US military is supposed to be doing when part of upstate New York is being invaded?

In an actual event like that, fighter jets would be scrambled immediately but proper mobilization of troops and ground assets takes several hours. Sure it's over by then.

But yes, seeing no aircraft is a bit odd. Artistic license I guess.

Victor

jaxxx wrote: »

Did anyone else cry when

Tony died

? No? Just me? Okay...............

It seems a lot of children did, especially the ones in their 20s and 30s.

Sad Professor

I came out of this thinking I had been overly harsh on many of the previous Marvel films, which as bland and forgettable as I often found them rarely felt as clunky and poorly made in places as this. As the conclusion to a 20 odd movie series I can recognise the achievement many feel this represents, but I had so little investment in these characters and their mission in those movies that I can only judge this film as a standalone entity. And even compared to the middling Infinity War, I thought this was quite poor.

silverharp

Kirby wrote: »

In an actual event like that, fighter jets would be scrambled immediately but proper mobilization of troops and ground assets takes several hours. Sure it's over by then.

But yes, seeing no aircraft is a bit odd. Artistic license I guess.

they could have put in a scene "the President is on the phone, he wants to use nukes?"

sticker

Sad Professor wrote: »

I came out of this thinking I had been overly harsh on many of the previous Marvel films, which as bland and forgettable as I often found them rarely felt as clunky and poorly made in places as this. As the conclusion to a 20 odd movie series I can recognise the achievement many feel this represents, but I had so little investment in these characters and their mission in those movies that I can only judge this film as a standalone entity. And even compared to the middling Infinity War, I thought this was quite poor.

I had investment in characters and still found it quite poor. That said I loved infiny war!

Sad Professor

I'm sure this has been discussed already, but re: the time travel, I assume they were doing alternate timelines? Hence why killing past Thanos didn't cause a paradox? If so they explained that really badly. When Hulk did his spiel about how you can't change the past I assumed he meant time was a closed loop, i.e. "whatever happened, happened".

Zubeneschamali

Sad Professor wrote: »

I'm sure this has been discussed already, but re: the time travel, I assume they were doing alternate timelines? Hence why killing past Thanos didn't cause a paradox?

Yes, there is a link upthread to a Q&A with the Russos where they say that's what they are aiming for.


But Prof. Huilks explanation was rubbish, the convo with Howard Stark misleading and Steve showing up at the end suggested a time loop, so they didn't do it very well.

Lithium93_

The time travel logic in the film had a touch of Dragon Ball Z to it.

Sad Professor

It seems the writers and directors don't even agree about how the time travel works and what happened with Steve at the end.

https://www.slashfilm.com/endgame-time-travel-writers/

I think they were probably being deliberately obscure about the time travel logic in order to maintain the stakes (there's no drama in parallel timelines if you can just return to your original timeline as if nothing happened) and to keep their options open for bringing back dead characters in future films.

Calhoun

Brilliant film, i quite enjoyed it. I don't get all the hate over the female scene, i think the reason that its not as liked is that it was missing a primary female lead throughout the film.

Had Black Widow not died when she did and she was the center point in it i think it would have made allot more sense.

I didn't like the handing of the shield to Sam, or the Cap aging so fast but i do think Bucky was in on Cap's plan.

SureYWouldntYa

jaxxx wrote: »

Did anyone else cry when

Tony died

? No? Just me? Okay...............

Was a little teary eyed, but the "I love you 3000" at the end of the hologram to his daughter absolutely broke me and I was bloody weeping and sobbing

micks_address

SureYWouldntYa wrote: »

Was a little teary eyed, but the "I love you 3000" at the end of the hologram to his daughter absolutely broke me and I was bloody weeping and sobbing

Yep my feicin daughter made me an iron Man card for my birthday with love you 3 thousand on it...talk about emotional blackmail

SureYWouldntYa

micks_address wrote: »

Yep my feicin daughter made me an iron Man card for my birthday with love you 3 thousand on it...talk about emotional blackmail

Be glad it didn't say she loved you in the 600-900 range :pac:

1800_Ladladlad

IMO , I think they royally fcuked it up. What they did to Thor was pathetic and made no sense when taking his position in the avengers, also towards the end of the movie, the virtuous feminist statement was the nail in the coffin. Tired of this forced bullsh*t

Franz Von Peppercorn

I watched it with my niece. No emotional investment except having watched maybe 8 or so MU movies, generally when they appear on Netflix or similar.

Loved it. There’s surely far more dialogue than most superhero movies and it was genuinely funny and touching. It wasn’t all fighting and CGI.

I wouldn’t worry too much about the problems with time travel as there always is that problem, nor what happens to the Earth after repopulation. It’s survived a lot of alien attacks in this universe.

I don’t even know what feminist scene people are talking about.

SureYWouldntYa

1800_Ladladlad wrote: »

IMO , I think they royally fcuked it up. What they did to Thor was pathetic and made no sense when taking his position in the avengerst

The guy lost everybody close to him in a couple of days, had his homeplace destroyed, and had a chance to save things right at the end but didn’t go for the head

It makes sense that he might go off the rails, and the constant humour is in keeping with Thor post Age of Ultron, even if it was overplayed a bit but I didnt have any problems with what they did with Thor

Plus they’ve given thousands the chance to do a proper cosplay of him at ComicCon and the likes, so at least there’s that

MarkY91

The Thor thing was funny but after visiting his ma, I expected him to go back to "normal"...kind of ridiculous.

Ave Sodalis

MarkY91 wrote:

The Thor thing was funny but after visiting his ma, I expected him to go back to "normal"...kind of ridiculous.

There was only about an hour from his talk with his mother, and Thanos 2 showing up. Emotionally or physically, it would be even more ridiculous to expect him back to normal. I believe him passing the mantle onto Valkyrie was him starting to heal.

MarkY91

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

There was only about an hour from his talk with his mother, and Thanos 2 showing up. Emotionally or physically, it would be even more ridiculous to expect him back to normal. I believe him passing the mantle onto Valkyrie was him starting to heal.

Good point.

Mitch Connor

Ave Sodalis wrote: »

There was only about an hour from his talk with his mother, and Thanos 2 showing up. Emotionally or physically, it would be even more ridiculous to expect him back to normal. I believe him passing the mantle onto Valkyrie was him starting to heal.

Back to normal would be odd but 8 don't think there was any real tonal shift at all, he had no real progression in the movie, which given the starting point is off, imo.

Agent Coulson

Well it's flown past the Two Billion Dollar Box Office mark today.

Agent Coulson

Were the scenes with Natalie Portman actually shot for Endgame or were they outtakes from Thor 2?

Calhoun

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Well it's flown past the Two Billion Dollar Box Office mark today.

I am not surprised at all, look we all know that it isn't a perfect film. Its far from it but for a marvel film its great in my mind.

I am going again next Friday, i havent been to a film in ages that i have wanted to sit through twice.

Gbear

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Yes, there is a link upthread to a Q&A with the Russos where they say that's what they are aiming for.


But Prof. Huilks explanation was rubbish, the convo with Howard Stark misleading and Steve showing up at the end suggested a time loop, so they didn't do it very well.

The Russo's also explained he had to get back on his own. Presumably in that timeline he was able to get hold of the tech to send him home.