Avengers: Endgame [ SPOILERS FROM POST 613 ]

Foxtrol · 02-05-2019 07:03PM

Drumpot wrote: »

I’ve not spoken much about the shot much, moreso the people trying to make out that those who disliked it have some sort of hidden agenda. If you valued self reflection so much you wouldn’t make so many presumptions and generalize people with a different view to yourself.

What presumptions and generalizations am I making about you, all I did was quote your post? You are free to correct me if I am misunderstanding, but your post clearly states that a key problem you have is the people who are involved in the shot rather than the shot itself.

Corholio · 02-05-2019 07:41PM

Enjoyed it a lot for the most part. The final battle was so well done I have to say, I think it was quite interesting also because there's been quite a few Marvel films where it's always questioned 'Where was so and so during the battle' etc, then to be explained in a future film. For that they were just all there.

What surprised me most was how really bizarrely poor the one liners, ripostes and general comedy was. Caps and Iron Mans especially. Even the normally averagely cheesy serious one liners were incredibly cheesy, Cap had a lot of shallow dialogue especially. I won't particularly miss Downey Jr, his schtick became stale quite a while ago.

Really liked Nebula's appearance in the film, always enjoyed her character and glad it was extended upon.

The Rape of Lucretia · 02-05-2019 09:02PM

Oh man, was that gruelling. Rule number one of film making : if you have a bad one, dont add insult to injury by making it to long as well.

Enjoyed Infinity War. It hit a good balance. But this was a resurection that just wasnt needed. Without a plot of any substance - none of these movies has really, its on the wrapping that they make or break - it was depending n hitting the right balance of action, characters, and humour. Infinity was did it well, Thor also, Guardians of the Galaxy very well. But this was a stinker. So wide of the mark, one wonders how it was let out at all. The attempt to be at once serious, drip with portent, and get away with self referential and SNL flavour comedy just hit such a bum note.

Add in having to listen the Sky News theme on loop, and the whole experience was most unsatisfactory.

Somehow, I stayed to the end, and saw the good bit. All thirty seconds of it. Quill and Thor on who was in charge. It was nice. But poor reward for the penance put in up to that. Maybe the whole point of it was that a man of colour can now be Captain America instead of white man. Not sure.

Drumpot · 02-05-2019 10:10PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

What presumptions and generalizations am I making about you, all I did was quote your post? You are free to correct me if I am misunderstanding, but your post clearly states that a key problem you have is the people who are involved in the shot rather than the shot itself.

I was responding to your post on people being outraged (should of copied it) and presumed you are implying that to not like that scene is sexist or misogynist, if that was not what you were saying then fair enough. I’m personally not outraged but think it was a poor scene in an otherwise decent battle. I actually preferred IW but that’s another topic.

TBH I can’t think of a more contrived scene in any other marvel movie. There have been stupid and cringeworthy moments in marvel movies but few as bad as that and the fact its the biggest most important battle of the franchise possibly made it more annoying.

The directors went out of their way to make it all female scene to make a statement which couldn’t of been less subtle. “Look at all the great, powerful woman everybody”. Its such a Hollywood cheap tokenistic way to supposedly promote strong women. I really enjoy strong female characters as you will see if you do some research in my post history here but I found this just crap.

JP Liz V1 · 02-05-2019 10:19PM

OT but Tony's daughter looked like Katie Holmes

pixelburp · 02-05-2019 10:31PM

Only got around to seeing it tonight, so finally pop back in to see what people have been saying, and ....

... it's whinging about that passing moment with all the women heroes. FFS. Why am I not even surprised at this point. There's always something to be indignant about... 3 hours of film but let's harrumph over a silly audience nod.

Drumpot · 02-05-2019 10:44PM

pixelburp wrote: »

Only got around to seeing it tonight, so finally pop back in to see what people have been saying, and ....

... it's whinging about that passing moment with all the women heroes. FFS. Why am I not even surprised at this point. There's always something to be indignant about... 3 hours of film but let's harrumph over a silly audience nod.

In fairness, There hasn’t been much whinging about the scene, more a correction of people trying to insinuate that those who disliked the scene have more nefarious reasons for bringing it up.

McDermotX · 03-05-2019 01:47AM

FWIW....the 'all-women scene' is old news....yes it's probably the worst shot in cinema history, but some of us have moved on.

I'm sitting here impatiently waiting on all the hysterical Green Book haters to get their arse in gear, and tell me how inappropriate is was for Wilson looking to Bucky for the go-ahead to accept Rodgers' shield.

Triggered !!!!!

Drumpot · 03-05-2019 07:44AM

McDermotX wrote: »

FWIW....the 'all-women scene' is old news....yes it's probably the worst shot in cinema history, but some of us have moved on.

I'm sitting here impatiently waiting on all the hysterical Green Book haters to get their arse in gear, and tell me how inappropriate is was for Wilson looking to Bucky for the go-ahead to accept Rodgers' shield.

Triggered !!!!!

It’s actually not that bad on second viewing when you are ready for it. Valkyrie’s impressive entrance would been better if it was done something similar to “on your left” from falcon, maybe if she flew by Thor and stopped one of those big yokes getting him.

TherapyBoy · 03-05-2019 08:38AM

Drumpot wrote: »

TBH I can’t think of a more contrived scene in any other marvel movie. There have been stupid and cringeworthy moments in marvel movies but few as bad as that and the fact its the biggest most important battle of the franchise possibly made it more annoying.

They should have thrown Thor in with the women, swishing his hair & looking fantastic!

pixelburp · 03-05-2019 11:30AM

Well. That felt like an extended victory lap as much a resolution to a cliffhanger: the plot was little more than a thin window dressing to indulge in sequences of cameos, callbacks and revisits across the last 10 years of MCU films. Some of those cameos were a genuine surprise and delight - Robert Redford was my personal highlight, as was the subversion of Winter Soldier's elevator scene - while others more expected but no less emotionally impactful. It has been suggested - and I've been inclined to agree - that the MCU has effectively functioned as a long series of "hangout" films, the joy being in the characters, their interactions and crossovers, rather than the (sometimes subpar) action and adventure: Endgame felt like the final proof of this, where the 3 hours consisted of one long roll-call and check-in with this ragtag group of characters.

In making Endgame an ostensible 'series finale', genetically similar to the big final episode of a TV show, the growing feeling as I put distance between it and myself is that I might be done with the MCU. For now at least: like how we wait a year before the next season of our favourite show, Endgame was the closing of a chapter, a narrative full-stop - or at least a semi-colon anyway. Goodbyes were said, sunsets watched or walked into, and so on. The Spider-Man sequel, coming fast down the tracks and a few months away, arrives too soon after such a big emotional climax and it may go unseen. Part of that apathy may also be the creeping belief that the newer MCU characters just don't resonate to the same extent as the Phase 1 crew (or even Phase 2, with the Guardians); while I was keen to follow Thor, Cap, Quill, Gamora et al by dint of those arresting characters & performances, the likes of Captain Marvel just don't grab me (indeed, so far she comes off a bit of charisma vacuum). We shall see what the future holds in that respect.

As to the plot itself? Well, it was gubbins of the highest order, and like I said a mere excuse to put the players on the board; potential contradictions glibly brushed aside with writing that stopped short of turning to the camera and asking the audience to just go with it[*]. And like a lot of two parters, the pay-off just couldn't maintain the momentum and tension accrued in the first half (though the "left behind" aspects were a success). The last act also descended into another big battle, but kudos to the Russos are due, as it was a better staged and balanced set-piece than the visually bland, rote version we got in Infinity War. Indeed, a couple of scenes had some genuinely fist-pumping moment sorely lacking in that first part.

* By taking the decision to return everyone 5 years after The Snap, all for the sake of Stark's daughter, the script basically condemned humanity to struggle; the first act clearly established a world without hope, one of chaos and collapse. Restoring those 4+ billion people into a world with crumbling infrastructure - farming, political, economic and so on - would surely bring mass poverty, conflict and starvation to the world (not to mention all those personal tragedies with siblings, spouses and friends having to readdress their relationships). Oh, but Stark's daughter can still exist so that's OK?

Sonics2k · 03-05-2019 12:06PM

pixelburp wrote: »

* By taking the decision to return everyone 5 years after The Snap, all for the sake of Stark's daughter, the script basically condemned humanity to struggle; the first act clearly established a world without hope, one of chaos and collapse. Restoring those 4+ billion people into a world with crumbling infrastructure - farming, political, economic and so on - would surely bring mass poverty, conflict and starvation to the world (not to mention all those personal tragedies with siblings, spouses and friends having to readdress their relationships). Oh, but Stark's daughter can still exist so that's OK?

I think it's safe to say it was for more than just Stark's daughter, but all the children born in that time.

kerplun k · 03-05-2019 12:07PM

pixelburp wrote: »

By taking the decision to return everyone 5 years after The Snap, all for the sake of Stark's daughter, the script basically condemned humanity to struggle; the first act clearly established a world without hope, one of chaos and collapse. Restoring those 4+ billion people into a world with crumbling infrastructure - farming, political, economic and so on - would surely bring mass poverty, conflict and starvation to the world (not to mention all those personal tragedies with siblings, spouses and friends having to readdress their relationships). Oh, but Stark's daughter can still exist so that's OK?

Wasn’t just Stark tho, you can’t just erase the past 5 years of people’s lives. Life moves on. If this decision was mine, I’d do the same thing and bring them back over erasing the past five years of my life.

pixelburp · 03-05-2019 12:10PM

Sonics2k wrote: »

I think it's safe to say it was for more than just Stark's daughter, but all the children born in that time.

Maybe, but the plan was hatched by dint of Stark's explicit comment about losing his daughter, so it's fair (end)game to hang it on our heroes.

They literally had the power to change the universe; presumably the writers were keen to avoid a total "it never happened" conclusion 'cos nobody likes those, but the choice they made feels like the world is going to have a lot of unintended, nasty consequences for everyone.

Starting with famine.

Ethereal Cereal · 03-05-2019 12:54PM

pixelburp wrote: »

Maybe, but the plan was hatched by dint of Stark's explicit comment about losing his daughter, so it's fair (end)game to hang it on our heroes.

They literally had the power to change the universe; presumably the writers were keen to avoid a total "it never happened" conclusion 'cos nobody likes those, but the choice they made feels like the world is going to have a lot of unintended, nasty consequences for everyone.

Starting with famine.

Yea, I totally agree with this. I think they could have prevented the initial snappening, and used some Infinity Stones explanation to how this would change their future.

It would have required a final sacrifice from Tony but most of the children born in that timeline would have been born in the altered timeline, just not into a universe of famine, grief and devastation.

If they had of played up the tragedy of the currect timeline, it would not have felt like a cheat to undo events from the end of IW.

Foxtrol · 03-05-2019 02:51PM

pixelburp wrote: »

Maybe, but the plan was hatched by dint of Stark's explicit comment about losing his daughter, so it's fair (end)game to hang it on our heroes.

They literally had the power to change the universe; presumably the writers were keen to avoid a total "it never happened" conclusion 'cos nobody likes those, but the choice they made feels like the world is going to have a lot of unintended, nasty consequences for everyone.

Starting with famine.

Marvel has shown that most of the MCU movies are based on the consequences of the previous movies, a not monster of the week baddie, so they’ve opened great possibilities for future movies, while also providing coverage for why all the Avengers aren’t dealing with every threat (as they’ll be spread too thin).

I remember in the thread for AoU, many posters were complaining about the unnecessary set piece destruction at the end of the movie, but that led to the Sokovia Accords, Civil War, which shaped IW and Endgame. I don’t see how the MCU doesn’t relatively struggle post Endgame, but they’ve given themselves a messed-up interesting world to develop stories and threats for the remaining characters to face.

silverharp · 03-05-2019 03:38PM

did it ever come up what the US military is supposed to be doing when part of upstate New York is being invaded?

RayCun · 03-05-2019 03:44PM

They launched a nuke

Victor · 03-05-2019 05:07PM

pixelburp wrote: »

Starting with famine.

Not necessarily. There is now 50-100% more animals to eat.

pixelburp · 03-05-2019 05:17PM

Victor wrote: »

Not necessarily. There is now 50-100% more animals to eat.

Think of all those fields, farms and slaughterhouses that for 5 years lay completely fallow, maybe even destroyed through crime, war or whatnot (apparently, modern crops are so precision farmed & brittle, ordinary garden weeds, their growth unchecked, can completely kill the crop. IE, don't rely on wheat being around in the apocalypse!). Sanitation, refuse, electricity, dilapidated housing, the list goes on; plus, through Scott Lang we had a clear view that the ordinary world (San Fran) had become pretty rundown and like a slum. People will pop back into reality, into houses overrun with trash, rats and probable disease. Assuming this wasn't factored in by Prof. Hulk during his own snap.

Not to mention the simple emotional cost: you return from the 'dead' to find your wife or husband has moved on - your return could be devastating. Assuming they're even still around, the grief of such a sudden, mass disappearance must have had some pretty dark consequences that'd be way, waaaayyyyy beyond the scope of a PG-13 superhero film.

I know I know

It's a big comic-book movie of talking trees etc., but the humanity and emotion was always earnest and played completely straight; it's why (for instance) Guardians worked so well, the characters inside the wackiness were still just people, all suffering & striving ...

The choice the writers made, basically trying to have their narrative cake and eat it, felt wrong to me and left the world in a pretty immediate, dire place. It's not my main takeaway from the film, don't get me wrong, but it just left a lingering thought about the world that can't be shifted...

I was very happy Korg & Meek were OK though.

Slydice · 03-05-2019 05:32PM

Doesn't even have to break a sweat to get above 2 billion this weekend!

Only needs about $236 million more

Worldwide: $1,764,251,786

https://www.boxofficemojo.com/movies/?id=marvel2019.htm

Ethereal Cereal · 03-05-2019 06:44PM

Victor wrote: »

Not necessarily. There is now 50-100% more animals to eat.

What Pixelburp said, but also the animals were halved in the snap too, all sentient creatures. Even with repopulation there would still be a shortage even 5 years later

khaldrogo · 03-05-2019 10:44PM

Just watched it again tonight.

Lost a little bit of the spark due to knowing what happens and felt a little drawn out but again, because I knew what was to come at the end. Still, amazing.

I love you 3000.....ðŸ˜

cursai · 03-05-2019 10:56PM

pixelburp wrote: »

Well. That felt like an extended victory lap as much a resolution to a cliffhanger: the plot was little more than a thin window dressing to indulge in sequences of cameos, callbacks and revisits across the last 10 years of MCU films. Some of those cameos were a genuine surprise and delight - Robert Redford was my personal highlight, as was the subversion of Winter Soldier's elevator scene - while others more expected but no less emotionally impactful. It has been suggested - and I've been inclined to agree - that the MCU has effectively functioned as a long series of "hangout" films, the joy being in the characters, their interactions and crossovers, rather than the (sometimes subpar) action and adventure: Endgame felt like the final proof of this, where the 3 hours consisted of one long roll-call and check-in with this ragtag group of characters.

In making Endgame an ostensible 'series finale', genetically similar to the big final episode of a TV show, the growing feeling as I put distance between it and myself is that I might be done with the MCU. For now at least: like how we wait a year before the next season of our favourite show, Endgame was the closing of a chapter, a narrative full-stop - or at least a semi-colon anyway. Goodbyes were said, sunsets watched or walked into, and so on. The Spider-Man sequel, coming fast down the tracks and a few months away, arrives too soon after such a big emotional climax and it may go unseen. Part of that apathy may also be the creeping belief that the newer MCU characters just don't resonate to the same extent as the Phase 1 crew (or even Phase 2, with the Guardians); while I was keen to follow Thor, Cap, Quill, Gamora et al by dint of those arresting characters & performances, the likes of Captain Marvel just don't grab me (indeed, so far she comes off a bit of charisma vacuum). We shall see what the future holds in that respect.

As to the plot itself? Well, it was gubbins of the highest order, and like I said a mere excuse to put the players on the board; potential contradictions glibly brushed aside with writing that stopped short of turning to the camera and asking the audience to just go with it[*]. And like a lot of two parters, the pay-off just couldn't maintain the momentum and tension accrued in the first half (though the "left behind" aspects were a success). The last act also descended into another big battle, but kudos to the Russos are due, as it was a better staged and balanced set-piece than the visually bland, rote version we got in Infinity War. Indeed, a couple of scenes had some genuinely fist-pumping moment sorely lacking in that first part.

* By taking the decision to return everyone 5 years after The Snap, all for the sake of Stark's daughter, the script basically condemned humanity to struggle; the first act clearly established a world without hope, one of chaos and collapse. Restoring those 4+ billion people into a world with crumbling infrastructure - farming, political, economic and so on - would surely bring mass poverty, conflict and starvation to the world (not to mention all those personal tragedies with siblings, spouses and friends having to readdress their relationships). Oh, but Stark's daughter can still exist so that's OK?

'The Artist' was pretentious crap.

jaxxx · 03-05-2019 10:57PM

Did anyone else cry when

Tony died

? No? Just me? Okay...............

Kirby · 03-05-2019 11:40PM

silverharp wrote: »

did it ever come up what the US military is supposed to be doing when part of upstate New York is being invaded?

In an actual event like that, fighter jets would be scrambled immediately but proper mobilization of troops and ground assets takes several hours. Sure it's over by then.

But yes, seeing no aircraft is a bit odd. Artistic license I guess.

Victor · 04-05-2019 02:58AM

jaxxx wrote: »

Did anyone else cry when
Tony died
? No? Just me? Okay...............

It seems a lot of children did, especially the ones in their 20s and 30s.

Sad Professor · 04-05-2019 07:45AM

I came out of this thinking I had been overly harsh on many of the previous Marvel films, which as bland and forgettable as I often found them rarely felt as clunky and poorly made in places as this. As the conclusion to a 20 odd movie series I can recognise the achievement many feel this represents, but I had so little investment in these characters and their mission in those movies that I can only judge this film as a standalone entity. And even compared to the middling Infinity War, I thought this was quite poor.

silverharp · 04-05-2019 02:06PM

Kirby wrote: »

In an actual event like that, fighter jets would be scrambled immediately but proper mobilization of troops and ground assets takes several hours. Sure it's over by then.

But yes, seeing no aircraft is a bit odd. Artistic license I guess.

they could have put in a scene "the President is on the phone, he wants to use nukes?"

sticker · 04-05-2019 02:41PM

Sad Professor wrote: »

I came out of this thinking I had been overly harsh on many of the previous Marvel films, which as bland and forgettable as I often found them rarely felt as clunky and poorly made in places as this. As the conclusion to a 20 odd movie series I can recognise the achievement many feel this represents, but I had so little investment in these characters and their mission in those movies that I can only judge this film as a standalone entity. And even compared to the middling Infinity War, I thought this was quite poor.

I had investment in characters and still found it quite poor. That said I loved infiny war!

Avengers: Endgame [** SPOILERS FROM POST 613 **]

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Avengers: Endgame [ SPOILERS FROM POST 613 ]