"Book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forward

I think if you know a bit about the logistics of filming and post production you're a bit more chilled out about it too. I can perfectly understand the thinking behind what happened to the Dothraki for example, it's the thinking of the producers of a large scale TV show and not of actual medieval military commanders.

While there are some valid points in that post, there are two major discussion points there. Firstly, GOT used to be a very carefully written show in earlier seasons that would never have featured such a blatant use of lazy writing to fit a narrative choice. When people talk about their problems with the episode, they're not pointing to other TV shows, to medieval textbooks, or anything else. The literal benchmark is previous seasons of Games of Thrones itself.

I know you did address the showrunners decision-making, but I do feel that they've blatantly seemed to stop caring in Seasons 7 and 8 specifically about maintaing any level of consistency to what came before. Half of season 5 was not book content; most of season 6 - despite that, S6 was quite a good seasons overall, S5 less so; but at least both were relatively consistent with seasons that came before them in terms of pacing and storytelling (even though, again, S5 wasn't great). But, at least, it does prove that they're perfectly capable of better in the scripting department.

So clearly a decision was made (as you've said) that it was time to hammer the show home, even if a few square pegs had to be hammered into round holes. Whereas say, S5 was weak, but for very different reasons, mostly narrative choices, but the general scripting, pacing and tone was OK. But some people are acting like nothing's changed and that some people are impossible to please.

Secondly, I do agree that budgetary concerns were always going to be an issue in what they could and couldn't display. Completely agree that in the context of everything, they probably couldn't afford to have had the Dothraki as a present force harrying the enemy for the entirety of the episode. Also, given the lack of time with which to work, they need them gone for the upcoming episodes...so they were always going to have to go out hard and fast, admittedly.

However, it certainly could've been written much better with the same outcome. Again, I'm not a writer, but having the Dothraki say, charge into battle despite not being ordered to? A scene or two with Dany and Jon looking on saying something like "What are they doing - this isn't the plan" - same result, but slightly more credible than what happened.

It's the same problem people have with the main characters surviving. It's not the inherent fact they did survive. It's that they were placed in utterly ludicrious situations, 'almost' died about a dozen times, but illogically survived anyway due to lazy writing. I mean there are levels of these things - nobody could reasonably argue that there weren't massive conveniences in GOT even from the first season, but nothing remotely approaching the scale of this episode. One character surviving impossible odds - perfectly acceptable. Everyone - far less so. A tighter script which placed some characters in different circumstances would've made it far more credible, and that's certainly nothing to do with budgetary concerns, but a priority given entirely to visual service.

As I've said before, people are perfectly entitled to think that was a brilliant episode, that Game of Thrones is still brilliant, and everything else. Becuse it many ways, it still is. But the quality of the writing has just really declined. Obviously how that affects the individuals perception is up to them entirely, but both viewpoints are equally valid.

I don’t see why the people who are dealing with the ****ty hand they were dealt are the ones getting crapped on. Any flaws are ultimately at least partially George’s fault because he failed to finish the books on time and left it to others to have to figure out how to wrap up the hole he wrote himself into. I will always appreciate what GRRM has given me through creating this world, but that’s just factual. People can be naive hero worship him all you like, it happened and it’s on him.

Honestly most people don't care about GRRM in the context of this episode. The lazy writing is nothing to do with him. Ultimately, nothing will ever be able to change how fast paced S7 and S8 are and how abruptly the show is suddenly coming a a conclusion after 60 slow-burning, carefully built up episodes.....but the weak writing in S8 (specifically E03; E02 was actually pretty decent) is 100% on the writers. Mainly because people's issues aren't with the overall plot, but the scripting that drives it.

I accept Arya killing the NK. I accept the main characters surviving. Those are core creative decisions, and they're inherently fine. What I don't accept is the lazy writing driving them, sitting underneath an admittedly amazing spectacle.

With a few script changes I'd consider it up there with the best. Namely a) a more rational explanation for the Dothraki b) a far more rational setup for all the main characters surviving c) better dialogue between Dany and Jon in relation to the dragons at times and d) ideally another episode devoted to the NK; it was built up for 60 episodes, so broadly speaking it was anti-climatic but I'm a reasonable person so I'd certainly settle for the first two points at least. After all - nothing is perfect. Not even the best episodes of Game of Thrones through S1 to S4.

Generally speaking I personally accept the plot as is being given to us by the showrunners. Just not how they're writing it (nor at the accelerated breakneck pace since S7 broadly speaking). I don't think GRRM is to blame for that. Equally I don't think people arguing in circles about how it should've been Jon, or anyone else, are overly productive. Those are massive divergences from the plot decision taken by the showrunners so I just don't get involved. My issues is always with the little things that could so easily have been done so much better.

Don't get me wrong, Game of Thrones is still very much a good, even great TV show. Some of my once-favorite shows became, or have become, utter jokes that are difficult to watch in later seasons. Dexter and Walking Dead spring to mind.

Game of Thrones is certainly not that to be fair.

That would be perfectly grand if it was a battle between both in isolation but the Dothraki were part of a grand alliance and under the control of military leaders. The head-on charge, thought not actually discussed at any point, is clearly the plan agreed upon by all.

It also ties into the above comment on scripting. You could've had a scene where Jon expresses unease at the tactic but Dany outlines something like what you're saying - that it is the only way they are willing to fight (because what you've said it actually quite true). Once again, job done, exact same outcome, but far less complaints.