nav[aria-label="Primary Navigation"] { padding: 0; & ul { list-style: none; width: 100%; display: flex; flex-direction: row; justify-content: start; align-items: start; gap: 30px; padding: 0; & li { margin: 0; } & ul li { list-style: none; } } }

"Book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forward

Nody

Note anything after this post may contain spoilers for the episode; do not read or open this thread until you have watched the whole episode!!!

This is ONLY about the specific episode! No information from any other source but listed below are allowed to be posted but book related information is allowed as well as the lore from the DVDs. Anything relating to interviews or articles directly related to this episode can be posted with a spoiler tag.

The "Next Episode" and any speculation on what may come in the future episodes should be put in the appropriate stickied Season 8 speculation thread; any funny pictures from the episode should be posted in this thread until Wednesday rather than the funny picture thread.

Note - No spoilers required for the current episode in this thread.

Find more posts tagged with

Quick Links

Comments

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Hyzepher wrote: »

I'm actually glad that I can watch an episode of GOT without needing to analyse every single decision made or feel the need to have everything 100% make sense. If I was like that I would have ruined one of the best TV experiences ever.

Sometimes you just need to enjoy something the way that it is presented. Is it perfect? No. But it's still miles ahead of everything else.

I think if you know a bit about the logistics of filming and post production you're a bit more chilled out about it too. I can perfectly understand the thinking behind what happened to the Dothraki for example, it's the thinking of the producers of a large scale TV show and not of actual medieval military commanders.

They needed to be gone by next week, their demise needed to be treated with narrative significance and it needed to have a cost lower than "infinite".

Now, that's yet another example of the constraints of production and the demands of the overall plot dictating character actions. That's the main difference between D&D's writing and GRRM's, they look at where they need to end up and move the pieces to get there; he moves the pieces in a way that makes sense and that dictates where he ends up. If the approach taken by the show means illogical military decisions, actions out of character and so on they're fine with doing that.

Even their execution of that approach is imperfect, there's no need for the fake cliffhangers they've had for Arya, Jaime and, this week, most named characters. However, Martin's approach isn't without its drawbacks either. He created a richly credible world, with complex but consistent characters and a strict relationship between action and consequence...and has ended up writing himself into a credible, complex, consequential corner to the point where he seems absolutely incapable of progressing the narrative to ANY kind of conclusion.

You are never, ever, ever going to get perfect content. But without this show we would have had none in the last decade. If the showrunners had failed to do it on time and in budget we'd have got none. Those realities of physics and finance are the driving forces, and of the rather lengthy list of disappointments that have arisen from that I'm surprised and amused that for an apparently sizeable group of people "reeeeee that's not how you use trebuchets, everyone's stupid" is so very high up the list.

The 80 minutes of network television that features zombie hordes, three enormous dragons, the destruction of winterfell, cavalry charges, hundreds of extras, a huge main cast AND an historically accurate and logical depiction of medieval style military tactics just does not and cannot exist. It's not a realistic expectation. And it wouldn't actually fcuking be Game of Thrones without the former, so not pissing one's knickers all week over the lack of the latter isn't the act of idiocy it's being made out to be.

check_six

Can anyone remind me of the status of the Iron Bank loan? Cersei was under pressure to pay up and had run out of money. They raided Highgarden and took the Tyrell's money to pay the loan. Was this money taken from the Lannister army when they were on the way back to King's Landing and got raided by Daenerys and the Dothraki? Maybe I'm missing something about where the money ended up.

paulbok

check_six wrote: »

Can anyone remind me of the status of the Iron Bank loan? Cersei was under pressure to pay up and had run out of money. They raided Highgarden and took the Tyrell's money to pay the loan. Was this money taken from the Lannister army when they were on the way back to King's Landing and got raided by Daenerys and the Dothraki? Maybe I'm missing something about where the money ended up.

No, it made it back to Kings Landing before the attack, Tarly informed Jamie at one point. Then there is a scene with Cersei and a dude from the Iron Bank where he expresses his surprise she paid the debt all off at once (and then took out another loan to hire the Golden Company).

IAmTheReign

There's something that's been bothering me since I watched the episode. So from what I got the whole plan was to use Bran as bait so they could draw the NK into a trap and kill him. I don't really understand why the NK was so dead set on killing him himself that he would be willing to expose himself unnecessarily but that's not what bothers me.

What really bothered me was instead of actually waiting for the NK to fall for the bait and walk into a trap Jon flew off into the clouds after him. If he was going to go after the NK the minute he saw him why set a trap to draw him in. And why set a trap if you don't have a plan to kill him when he gets to the Godswood? It makes absolutely no sense. Leaving Bran exposed in the Godswood served literally no purpose. Unless I'm missing something the whole 'plan' for killing the NK seems like one massive plot hole.

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

IAmTheReign wrote: »

There's something that's been bothering me since I watched the episode. So from what I got the whole plan was to use Bran as bait so they could draw the NK into a trap and kill him. I don't really understand why the NK was so dead set on killing him himself that he would be willing to expose himself unnecessarily but that's not what bothers me.

What really bothered me was instead of actually waiting for the NK to fall for the bait and walk into a trap Jon flew off into the clouds after him. If he was going to go after the NK the minute he saw him why set a trap to draw him in. And why set a trap if you don't have a plan to kill him when he gets to the Godswood? It makes absolutely no sense. Leaving Bran exposed in the Godswood served literally no purpose. Unless I'm missing something the whole 'plan' for killing the NK seems like one massive plot hole.

I think the plan was to draw him out in the open by using Bran as bait, hanging back on the other 2 dragons until he revealed himself. Then it's two dragons against one, take him out and hope the ground troops held out until then, leaving the iron islanders to protect Bran from wights but on the assumption the WWs and NK wouldn't get close.

However, Daenarys gon Daenarys, and she abandoned that as soon as she saw the Dothraki being wiped out, though to be fair that initial onslaught looks like it would have overwhelmed the living almost immediately if she hadn't.

Doesn't seem anyone was expecting that ice storm, and doesn't seem the Night King expected to be anywhere but on his dragon. Everyone's plan fell to sh1t pretty quickly.

Loafing Oaf

IAmTheReign wrote: »

There's something that's been bothering me since I watched the episode. So from what I got the whole plan was to use Bran as bait so they could draw the NK into a trap and kill him. I don't really understand why the NK was so dead set on killing him himself that he would be willing to expose himself unnecessarily but that's not what bothers me.

Was he intent on some kind of ceremonial killing? If all he wanted to do was bump him off, why not unleash a proper zombie horde, rather than the handful that Theon and co could pick off, or use the dragon to burn down the godswood?

pq0n1ct4ve8zf5

Loafing Oaf wrote: »

Was he intent on some kind of ceremonial killing? If all he wanted to do was bump him off, why not unleash a proper zombie horde, rather than the handful that Theon and co could pick off, or use the dragon to burn down the godswood?

Seems like he was intent on killing him himself so when his dragon was banjaxed he continued on foot. Would have worked fine if it hadn't been for Ayra. Guessing it might have been some kind of ritual sacrifice involving the tree, same as created him iirc.

Sam will probably get clonked on the head by a book that explains it all falling from the sky next week, then fart or fall over and explain it to everyone else.

Drumpot

I didn’t read the books but heard a podcast discussing bran starks history which suggest the NK was a Bran stark who made the wall And fell in love with a nightqueen. Is that just book stuff and is it not now relevant to the show because they implied the NK was just some guy they made with no particular importance to who he is? Seems a bit of a stretch for them to do a twist with Bran at this stage?!

Mokuba

Drumpot wrote: »

I didn’t read the books but heard a podcast discussing bran starks history which suggest the NK was a Bran stark who made the wall And fell in love with a nightqueen. Is that just book stuff and is it not now relevant to the show because they implied the NK was just some guy they made with no particular importance to who he is? Seems a bit of a stretch for them to do a twist with Bran at this stage?!

There is no Night King in the books, yet at least.

The books certainly hint at Bran being a much darker character than in the shows. He starts to enjoy warging into Hodor even though Hodor is in extreme pain when it happens, and he may have eaten Jojen.

leggo

Sam Rapid Rafter wrote: »

I think if you know a bit about the logistics of filming and post production you're a bit more chilled out about it too. I can perfectly understand the thinking behind what happened to the Dothraki for example, it's the thinking of the producers of a large scale TV show and not of actual medieval military commanders.

They needed to be gone by next week, their demise needed to be treated with narrative significance and it needed to have a cost lower than "infinite".

Now, that's yet another example of the constraints of production and the demands of the overall plot dictating character actions. That's the main difference between D&D's writing and GRRM's, they look at where they need to end up and move the pieces to get there; he moves the pieces in a way that makes sense and that dictates where he ends up. If the approach taken by the show means illogical military decisions, actions out of character and so on they're fine with doing that.

Even their execution of that approach is imperfect, there's no need for the fake cliffhangers they've had for Arya, Jaime and, this week, most named characters. However, Martin's approach isn't without its drawbacks either. He created a richly credible world, with complex but consistent characters and a strict relationship between action and consequence...and has ended up writing himself into a credible, complex, consequential corner to the point where he seems absolutely incapable of progressing the narrative to ANY kind of conclusion.

You are never, ever, ever going to get perfect content. But without this show we would have had none in the last decade. If the showrunners had failed to do it on time and in budget we'd have got none. Those realities of physics and finance are the driving forces, and of the rather lengthy list of disappointments that have arisen from that I'm surprised and amused that for an apparently sizeable group of people "reeeeee that's not how you use trebuchets, everyone's stupid" is so very high up the list.

The 80 minutes of network television that features zombie hordes, three enormous dragons, the destruction of winterfell, cavalry charges, hundreds of extras, a huge main cast AND an historically accurate and logical depiction of medieval style military tactics just does not and cannot exist. It's not a realistic expectation. And it wouldn't actually fcuking be Game of Thrones without the former, so not pissing one's knickers all week over the lack of the latter isn't the act of idiocy it's being made out to be.

Best post I’ve read on this. Eventually it has to be a TV show and get to a conclusion, certain things need to happen to get there and logic may take a backseat in those instances. Some can accept that and enjoy it for what it is, some can’t and would rather imagine there’s a perfect way of doing it and GRRM has just been biding his time to show it. The author everyone is imagining would tie it all together perfectly (despite a good 40% of his work on this project being at least somewhat flawed on its own merit) literally can’t. He can’t. He would’ve made SOME inroads by now and not looked like an incompetent fool in front of the entire planet, as his story exploded in popularity, if he could’ve.

I don’t see why the people who are dealing with the ****ty hand they were dealt are the ones getting crapped on. Any flaws are ultimately at least partially George’s fault because he failed to finish the books on time and left it to others to have to figure out how to wrap up the hole he wrote himself into. I will always appreciate what GRRM has given me through creating this world, but that’s just factual. People can be naive hero worship him all you like, it happened and it’s on him.

[Deleted User]

Drumpot wrote: »

I didn’t read the books but heard a podcast discussing bran starks history which suggest the NK was a Bran stark who made the wall And fell in love with a nightqueen. Is that just book stuff and is it not now relevant to the show because they implied the NK was just some guy they made with no particular importance to who he is? Seems a bit of a stretch for them to do a twist with Bran at this stage?!

That's the Night's King which is different. Think he was a Stark Lord Commander of the Night's Watch who fell in love with a WW.

Necro

Mokuba wrote:

There is no Night King in the books, yet at least.

Well technically not but the scene in the book where Jon follows Craster is definitely a large shove in that direction.

Granted we don't get the whole WW creation (which they weirdly never explained) scene but it's in the least heavily hinted.

It's funny in a way as imo up to this episode the whole Night King saga has largely been a creation of the show as opposed to Martin.

I'm hoping some day at least Winds of Winter will be released and there might be some indication that he was going along the same lines as the show in terms of that plotline anyways.

Tired Gardener

This is a very well thought out analysis of the ending, and how it should have gone.

https://youtu.be/vn6sfPJB-1E

EagererBeaver

Necro wrote: »

Well technically not but the scene in the book where Jon follows Craster is definitely a large shove in that direction.

Granted we don't get the whole WW creation (which they weirdly never explained) scene but it's in the least heavily hinted.

It's funny in a way as imo up to this episode the whole Night King saga has largely been a creation of the show as opposed to Martin.

I'm hoping some day at least Winds of Winter will be released and there might be some indication that he was going along the same lines as the show in terms of that plotline anyways.

There's no "technically" about it, it simply hasn't happened.

As for Jon following Craster being a "large shove in that direction" this is purely retrospective speculation following the influence of the show.

TerrorFirmer

I think if you know a bit about the logistics of filming and post production you're a bit more chilled out about it too. I can perfectly understand the thinking behind what happened to the Dothraki for example, it's the thinking of the producers of a large scale TV show and not of actual medieval military commanders.

While there are some valid points in that post, there are two major discussion points there. Firstly, GOT used to be a very carefully written show in earlier seasons that would never have featured such a blatant use of lazy writing to fit a narrative choice. When people talk about their problems with the episode, they're not pointing to other TV shows, to medieval textbooks, or anything else. The literal benchmark is previous seasons of Games of Thrones itself.

I know you did address the showrunners decision-making, but I do feel that they've blatantly seemed to stop caring in Seasons 7 and 8 specifically about maintaing any level of consistency to what came before. Half of season 5 was not book content; most of season 6 - despite that, S6 was quite a good seasons overall, S5 less so; but at least both were relatively consistent with seasons that came before them in terms of pacing and storytelling (even though, again, S5 wasn't great). But, at least, it does prove that they're perfectly capable of better in the scripting department.

So clearly a decision was made (as you've said) that it was time to hammer the show home, even if a few square pegs had to be hammered into round holes. Whereas say, S5 was weak, but for very different reasons, mostly narrative choices, but the general scripting, pacing and tone was OK. But some people are acting like nothing's changed and that some people are impossible to please.

Secondly, I do agree that budgetary concerns were always going to be an issue in what they could and couldn't display. Completely agree that in the context of everything, they probably couldn't afford to have had the Dothraki as a present force harrying the enemy for the entirety of the episode. Also, given the lack of time with which to work, they need them gone for the upcoming episodes...so they were always going to have to go out hard and fast, admittedly.

However, it certainly could've been written much better with the same outcome. Again, I'm not a writer, but having the Dothraki say, charge into battle despite not being ordered to? A scene or two with Dany and Jon looking on saying something like "What are they doing - this isn't the plan" - same result, but slightly more credible than what happened.

It's the same problem people have with the main characters surviving. It's not the inherent fact they did survive. It's that they were placed in utterly ludicrious situations, 'almost' died about a dozen times, but illogically survived anyway due to lazy writing. I mean there are levels of these things - nobody could reasonably argue that there weren't massive conveniences in GOT even from the first season, but nothing remotely approaching the scale of this episode. One character surviving impossible odds - perfectly acceptable. Everyone - far less so. A tighter script which placed some characters in different circumstances would've made it far more credible, and that's certainly nothing to do with budgetary concerns, but a priority given entirely to visual service.

As I've said before, people are perfectly entitled to think that was a brilliant episode, that Game of Thrones is still brilliant, and everything else. Becuse it many ways, it still is. But the quality of the writing has just really declined. Obviously how that affects the individuals perception is up to them entirely, but both viewpoints are equally valid.

I don’t see why the people who are dealing with the ****ty hand they were dealt are the ones getting crapped on. Any flaws are ultimately at least partially George’s fault because he failed to finish the books on time and left it to others to have to figure out how to wrap up the hole he wrote himself into. I will always appreciate what GRRM has given me through creating this world, but that’s just factual. People can be naive hero worship him all you like, it happened and it’s on him.

Honestly most people don't care about GRRM in the context of this episode. The lazy writing is nothing to do with him. Ultimately, nothing will ever be able to change how fast paced S7 and S8 are and how abruptly the show is suddenly coming a a conclusion after 60 slow-burning, carefully built up episodes.....but the weak writing in S8 (specifically E03; E02 was actually pretty decent) is 100% on the writers. Mainly because people's issues aren't with the overall plot, but the scripting that drives it.

I accept Arya killing the NK. I accept the main characters surviving. Those are core creative decisions, and they're inherently fine. What I don't accept is the lazy writing driving them, sitting underneath an admittedly amazing spectacle.

With a few script changes I'd consider it up there with the best. Namely a) a more rational explanation for the Dothraki b) a far more rational setup for all the main characters surviving c) better dialogue between Dany and Jon in relation to the dragons at times and d) ideally another episode devoted to the NK; it was built up for 60 episodes, so broadly speaking it was anti-climatic but I'm a reasonable person so I'd certainly settle for the first two points at least. After all - nothing is perfect. Not even the best episodes of Game of Thrones through S1 to S4.

Generally speaking I personally accept the plot as is being given to us by the showrunners. Just not how they're writing it (nor at the accelerated breakneck pace since S7 broadly speaking). I don't think GRRM is to blame for that. Equally I don't think people arguing in circles about how it should've been Jon, or anyone else, are overly productive. Those are massive divergences from the plot decision taken by the showrunners so I just don't get involved. My issues is always with the little things that could so easily have been done so much better.

Don't get me wrong, Game of Thrones is still very much a good, even great TV show. Some of my once-favorite shows became, or have become, utter jokes that are difficult to watch in later seasons. Dexter and Walking Dead spring to mind.

Game of Thrones is certainly not that to be fair.

Necro

EagererBeaver wrote:

As for Jon following Craster being a "large shove in that direction" this is purely retrospective speculation following the influence of the show.

Do you really expect it to be that vastly different that the Night King doesn't even exist though in the books?

Seems a bit mad to assume that, given the show basically took that Craster and baby scene and expanded on it for dramatic TV effect.

You can call it retrospective whatever, the fact is that scene happened in the book and the show so the logical conclusion to draw is that the extra bits are also a part of Martin's plans.

If the entire story changes with Winds of Winter and the Night King is shown to be a show construction as opposed to Martin's then I'll be completely gobsmacked (and also cynical that Martin saw how the ending went and said, nah no need for the NK at all).

But having said all that I dont believe we're even getting one book tbh so it's a moot point as we simply wont know until it's published.

yourdeadwright

Wasn't it Robert who said " only a fool would meet the Dothraki in an open field "

So the whole world thought you can not fight Dothraki in an open field , the Dotraki believed this themselves ,

So it makes sense as crazy horse riding hoard they had no fear and wanted to meet the army of the dead in an open field,

Why would they of a sudden they change how they do battle , there not trained Knights there a hoard of lunatics who meet you head on

Necro

TerrorFirmer wrote:

Honestly most people don't care about GRRM in the context of this episode. The lazy writing is nothing to do with him. Ultimately, nothing will ever be able to change how fast paced S7 and S8 are and how abruptly the show is suddenly coming a a conclusion after 60 slow-burning, carefully built up episodes.....but the weak writing in S8 (specifically E03; E02 was actually pretty decent) is 100% on the writers. Mainly because people's issues aren't with the overall plot, but the scripting that drives it.

Isn't that the point though in that they had a fully formed narrative in the earlier seasons to deal with as opposed to making it up on the fly (or by Martin's notes on the ending).

The fact they have less material (and likely HBO told them it had to wrap in 2 seasons) has contributed to the faster pace of the show since the beginning of S7.

And it is imo perfectly acceptable to blame the lazy git Martin for not giving them said source material to adapt which most will agree they did rather brilliantly from seasons 1-4 anyways (first 3 seasons are arguably the best television ever produced imo).

TerrorFirmer

That would be perfectly grand if it was a battle between both in isolation but the Dothraki were part of a grand alliance and under the control of military leaders. The head-on charge, thought not actually discussed at any point, is clearly the plan agreed upon by all.

It also ties into the above comment on scripting. You could've had a scene where Jon expresses unease at the tactic but Dany outlines something like what you're saying - that it is the only way they are willing to fight (because what you've said it actually quite true). Once again, job done, exact same outcome, but far less complaints.

TerrorFirmer

Necro wrote: »

Isn't that the point though in that they had a fully formed narrative in the earlier seasons to deal with as opposed to making it up on the fly (or by Martin's notes on the ending).

The fact they have less material (and likely HBO told them it had to wrap in 2 seasons) has contributed to the faster pace of the show since the beginning of S7.

And it is imo perfectly acceptable to blame the lazy git Martin for not giving them said source material to adapt which most will agree they did rather brilliantly from seasons 1-4 anyways (first 3 seasons are arguably the best television ever produced imo).

That's exactly what I'm saying though. The fast pace ultimately is what it is and there are reasons for it.

I'm disappointed at it but not hugely surprised either. Even if GRRM had released more books it likely would've been difficult to keep it going much longer anyway, for a variety of reasons.

At least, not without huge cast transitions, which would never have worked for this concept show like it does for other more fleeting shows.

It did have to come to an end. I'd have liked S7 and S8 to be 10 episode seasons at least with a similar structure and pacing to S1-S6 but it is what it is.

The scripting though is entirely different. We can reasonably expect more from writers who've been at the heart of the show since 2011.

And I fully agree. To me, S1 through S4 are the best TV ever made. Hence why we're having this discussion! If GOT had been like this from the start, I'd consider Battle of Winterfell a 10/10.

The problem isn't the script in isolation whatsoever - because honestly it's generally 100% competent - it's the scripting compared to previous seasons of GOT.

EagererBeaver

Necro wrote: »

Do you really expect it to be that vastly different that the Night King doesn't even exist though in the books?

Seems a bit mad to assume that, given the show basically took that Craster and baby scene and expanded on it for dramatic TV effect.

You can call it retrospective whatever, the fact is that scene happened in the book and the show so the logical conclusion to draw is that the extra bits are also a part of Martin's plans.

If the entire story changes with Winds of Winter and the Night King is shown to be a show construction as opposed to Martin's then I'll be completely gobsmacked (and also cynical that Martin saw how the ending went and said, nah no need for the NK at all).

But having said all that I dont believe we're even getting one book tbh so it's a moot point as we simply wont know until it's published.

Whether I do or not is completely irrelevant. Your claim was that the books are headed in the direction of the Night King (who will presumably be the Great Other or the Night's King from the Old Nan tale). This claim is influenced solely by the role of the NK in the show, and if it hadn't happened, the thought of the Night's/Night King wouldn't have entered any of our collective heads.

Necro

EagererBeaver wrote: »

Whether I do or not is completely irrelevant. Your claim was that the books are headed in the direction of the Night King (who will presumably be the Great Other or the Night's King from the Old Nan tale). This claim is influenced solely by the role of the NK in the show, and if it hadn't happened, the thought of the Night's/Night King wouldn't have entered any of our collective heads.

Well we'll just have to agree to differ on that until the books are released, which will likely be never :pac:

mewso

Tired Gardener wrote: »

This is a very well thought out analysis of the ending, and how it should have gone.

https://youtu.be/vn6sfPJB-1E

That would have been a fantastic way to do it. Great video.

PhuckHugh

Lolz.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xfSoVs7ZXZo

[Deleted User]

Necro wrote: »

Isn't that the point though in that they had a fully formed narrative in the earlier seasons to deal with as opposed to making it up on the fly (or by Martin's notes on the ending).

The fact they have less material (and likely HBO told them it had to wrap in 2 seasons) has contributed to the faster pace of the show since the beginning of S7.

And it is imo perfectly acceptable to blame the lazy git Martin for not giving them said source material to adapt which most will agree they did rather brilliantly from seasons 1-4 anyways (first 3 seasons are arguably the best television ever produced imo).

Where are your books?

Keyzer

yourdeadwright wrote: »

Wasn't it Robert who said " only a fool would meet the Dothraki in an open field "

So the whole world thought you can not fight Dothraki in an open field , the Dotraki believed this themselves ,

So it makes sense as crazy horse riding hoard they had no fear and wanted to meet the army of the dead in an open field,

Why would they of a sudden they change how they do battle , there not trained Knights there a hoard of lunatics who meet you head on

Come on man, don't make excuses for this sh1tshow.

Are we to believe that any military force (crazy or not) would blindly gallop at full pelt, in the pitch dark towards an army they cannot see nor have ever encountered before?

Are we to believe the person in charge would order this? Order the entire cavalry to charge the enemy when they can't see them?

Seriously?

Words cannot describe how stupid this move was or how bad this writing was.

The more I think about this episode, the more I think they have destroyed the entire show.

yourdeadwright

Keyzer wrote: »

Come on man, don't make excuses for this sh1tshow.

Are we to believe that any military force (crazy or not) would blindly gallop at full pelt, in the pitch dark towards an army they cannot see nor have ever encountered before?

Are we to believe the person in charge would order this? Order the entire cavalry to charge the enemy when they can't see them?

Seriously?

Words cannot describe how stupid this move was or how bad this writing was.

The more I think about this episode, the more I think they have destroyed the entire show.

There suppose to be savages feared by everyone in the open field, and now they have flaming swords, They thought they had nothing to fear as every army they ever came up againstfeared them,

How is that so hard to believe but Dragons , and army of the dead and a Night King is believable

Keyzer

yourdeadwright wrote: »

There suppose to be savages feared by everyone in the open field, and now they have flaming swords, They thought they had nothing to fear as every army they ever came up againstfeared them,

How is that so hard to believe but Dragons , and army of the dead and a Night King is believable

Because it's absolutely stupid, that's why. Beyond stupid. Regardless of what the Dothraki thought, what idiot ordered the entire cavalry out first? Idiotic...

Whether your standards (and I mean the standards set by the show itself in seasons 1-4) are just too low or your a fanboy, I don't know. This episode destroyed everything that came before for the last 9 years.

And don't bring in the "oh but there's dragons and giants in the show, and you have a problem with this" angle.... That's the lazy way out.

Baggly

Destroyed the entire show. Ok so.

yourdeadwright

Keyzer wrote: »

Because it's absolutely stupid, that's why. Beyond stupid. Regardless of what the Dothraki thought, what idiot ordered the entire cavalry out first? Idiotic...

Whether your standards (and I mean the standards set by the show itself in seasons 1-4) are just too low or your a fanboy, I don't know. This episode destroyed everything that came before for the last 9 years.

And don't bring in the "oh but there's dragons and giants in the show, and you have a problem with this" angle.... That's the lazy way out.

Of course the show was better in season 1-4 why would that surprise you ? At that stage it was almost pulled straight form the books, which took decades to write and so much time was taking over each peace of dialogue years in fact, a tv show does not have that time ,

It didn't ruin it for me at all, If you don't like it it's ok you can just not watch it,

I read a good story the other day about way fans of all series get annoyed at the end and its mainly got to do with the fact they spend so much time reading fan theories and having there own that when it comes to pass and is different they go banana's and can't hack it hasn't gone the way they expected ,