Avengers: Endgame [ SPOILERS FROM POST 613 ]

TerrorFirmer · 30-04-2019 11:42PM

kerplun k wrote: »

After the Russo Q&A, I’ve lost any hope that Black Widow is alive and the solo movie wouldn’t be an origin story. From what I’m hearing, it will definitely be an origin. The question is, do people really wanna see an origin story about a dead character with no future. Maybe they’re setting up another Black Widow. But still, It’s a hard sell and personally I’d have zero interest in it.

A few years ago, maybe - even likely. Now, post Endgame? Zero interest, speaking for myself.

A BW origin story would be a misfire at this point in the timeline.

Ethereal Cereal · 01-05-2019 07:44AM

I've no idea why they killed her off, it seemed needless, regardless of the fact that she has a movie coming out.

An origin story would be a disaster for her, it's not like she has a set of super powers that need explaining. I would have liked a dual time line story, part in current day, part in maybe the Budapest mission or something. Along the line of "The Debt"

Zubeneschamali · 01-05-2019 09:10AM

RickBlaine wrote: »

It is literally impossible to explain the time travel plot without massive plot holes and inconsistencies.

Reading the Russo Q&A, they did have a consistent scheme in mind, they just messed it up a bit in the final movie. If Prof Hulk had been clearer, and a line or two had been changed in Tony's chat with his Dad and Steve's bench scene, it would have been completely fine.

They also say that Black Widow is dead and it is not reversible, but that is now nonsense - Steve could just grab a fresh Black Widow from some past reality and bring her forward. Vision, too, or Tony, or whoever. Hell, go get 100 Captain Marvels, and they can handle the hero sh!t from now on.

paulbok · 01-05-2019 09:23AM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

Reading the Russo Q&A, they did have a consistent scheme in mind, they just messed it up a bit in the final movie. If Prof Hulk had been clearer, and a line or two had been changed in Tony's chat with his Dad and Steve's bench scene, it would have been completely fine.

They also say that Black Widow is dead and it is not reversible, but that is now nonsense - Steve could just grab a fresh Black Widow from some past reality and bring her forward. Vision, too, or Tony, or whoever. Hell, go get 100 Captain Marvels, and they can handle the hero sh!t from now on.

They really need to shut down the time travel get out they now have, for those reasons you outlined alone.
A sub plot of it damaging space time each time it's used would be a reasonable explanation for not using it again.
For their own sakes with continuity as well.

Perhaps messing with time is what summons the Eternals in the next phase.

NuMarvel · 01-05-2019 09:44AM

paulbok wrote: »

They really need to shut down the time travel get out they now have, for those reasons you outlined alone.
A sub plot of it damaging space time each time it's used would be a reasonable explanation for not using it again.
For their own sakes with continuity as well.

Perhaps messing with time is what summons the Eternals in the next phase.

It sets up Kang as a future big bad, if they want to go that way. All the messing with time in Endgame results in Kang conquering a future alternate Earth and he decides to expand his empire to other Earths. And they could tie the FF into it, because of Kang's connections to Reed Richards. They could even adapt the Gathering story arc, in part anyway.

And I'll stop geeking out now.

Necro · 01-05-2019 10:08AM

Doesn't the whole 'Black Widow is dead, that's it' point in that interview fall down with Gamora now running around alive and well?

As someone said they can literally grab a Black Widow from any point in time and bring her back to current day.

It's why the whole reverse snap thing to me seems a cop out to bring back a load of people who were dramatically killed at the end of IW.

If they really had to go that way would it not have been better to have Thanos still in possession of the stones in present day rather than destroying them 'just cos'.

NuMarvel · 01-05-2019 10:23AM

Necro wrote: »

Doesn't the whole 'Black Widow is dead, that's it' point in that interview fall down with Gamora now running around alive and well?

As someone said they can literally grab a Black Widow from any point in time and bring her back to current day.

It's why the whole reverse snap thing to me seems a cop out to bring back a load of people who were dramatically killed at the end of IW.

If they really had to go that way would it not have been better to have Thanos still in possession of the stones in present day rather than destroying them 'just cos'.

I haven't read the full Q &A transcript, but I'm taking it that the "Black Widow is dead" line is referring to not being able to resurrect her after her sacrifice on Vormir. Sure they could use time travel to bring back a past version, but I suspect they will rarely if ever do that. Otherwise, the possibility of death carries no meaning in any future movies.

Zubeneschamali · 01-05-2019 10:38AM

NuMarvel wrote: »

Otherwise, the possibility of death carries no meaning in any future movies.

That is literally what this background means. There are an infinite number of identical Tony Starks out there, so if one dies, there are, let's see, yep, still an infinite number of them. Death means nothing.

megaten · 01-05-2019 11:27AM

Necro wrote: »

Doesn't the whole 'Black Widow is dead, that's it' point in that interview fall down with Gamora now running around alive and well?

As someone said they can literally grab a Black Widow from any point in time and bring her back to current day.

It's why the whole reverse snap thing to me seems a cop out to bring back a load of people who were dramatically killed at the end of IW.

If they really had to go that way would it not have been better to have Thanos still in possession of the stones in present day rather than destroying them 'just cos'.

I mean not really? Your basically kidnapping a different version of them. They're not really the same person you knew. Gamora attacks Star Lord the minute he touchers her because they have no history together.

Related to time travel shenanigans I think Nebula was one of may favourite parts of this movie. She played a major part in the story culminating in literally killing her past self showing the gulf in what she was and what she has become. The small bit with her and Rhodey when they retrieve the power stone is great too.

Necro · 01-05-2019 11:42AM

megaten wrote:

I mean not really? Your basically kidnapping a different version of them. They're not really the same person you knew. Gamora attacks Star Lord the minute he touchers her because they have no history together.

Yes but the paradox comes into play with Thanos and his army coming from the past to the future and being defeated. If anything she should have disappeared with Tony's snap as well so as not to create that sort of issue.

megaten · 01-05-2019 11:48AM

Necro wrote: »

Yes but the paradox comes into play with Thanos and his army coming from the past to the future and being defeated. If anything she should have disappeared with Tony's snap as well so as not to create that sort of issue.

Your thinking to hard when it comes to time travel. They movie goes out of its way to say don't worry about paradox's.

Necro · 01-05-2019 11:58AM

megaten wrote:

Your thinking to hard when it comes to time travel. They movie goes out of its way to say don't worry about paradox's.

I guess that's my problem:pac:
If you introduce the idea of paradoxes then you can't arbitrarily tell the viewers to ignore them imo anyways.

megaten · 01-05-2019 12:00PM

Necro wrote: »

I guess that's my problem:pac:
If you introduce the idea of paradoxes then you can't arbitrarily tell the viewers to ignore them imo anyways.

They don't introduce the idea of paradox's though?

Zubeneschamali · 01-05-2019 12:16PM

megaten wrote: »

They movie goes out of its way to say don't worry about paradox's.

No, they explain (badly) that with the version of time travel they discover, there can never be any paradoxes.

The apparent loops in the movie (Steve on the bench and Tony's dad's favorite saying) have to be explained off-screen somehow. (The real explanation being the writers forgot which version of time travel they were using).

Zubeneschamali · 01-05-2019 12:18PM

megaten wrote: »

They don't introduce the idea of paradox's though?

Prof. Hulk says that you cannot change your present by going to the past, so no paradoxes.

Acosta · 01-05-2019 01:05PM

megaten wrote: »

I mean not really? Your basically kidnapping a different version of them. They're not really the same person you knew. Gamora attacks Star Lord the minute he touchers her because they have no history together.

These last two Avengers movies have kind of messed up the Guardians trilogy a bit. I only care as I think the first two are by far and away the best MCU movies. I would have liked if James Gunn had written Endgame.

I enjoyed Endgame, but I do really need to see it again before giving a final judgement. The sound wasn't great in there and first 45 minutes I was distracted by the guy sitting next to me eating popcorn like his life depended on it.

It felt a bit long. I think they could have shaved 20 minutes of so off it. Infinity War seemed more focused and sure of itself. Overall a better movie I think. As was the first Avengers movie.
I don't like the latest version of Hulk and I don't think Chris Hemsworth is as funny a comedy actor as the writers of this and the last Thor movie think he is.

As I'm sure many others did I pretty much predicted who was going to die in this walking out of seeing Infinity War. I liked Captain Americas happy ending though. That was quite nice.
All the time travel stuff was confusing and I generally like that kind of thing.

Overall a good end to a mostly brilliant run of movies over many years.

razorblunt · 01-05-2019 06:28PM

Just saw it. I’m not a massive fan of avengers, I like them as cinematic events but have no emotional attachment to it. I liked many of the stand alone movies though.

Nice way to close the whole thing but felt like it was missing something from being perfect

- underpowering Thor for lols, I thought his PTSD story would have been interesting but they went down the “lol he has moobs” line
- Paltrow in general is appalling, when did she get a suit?
- Banner Hulk was weird
- Hawkeye and Black Widow pulling a gun and arrow in an immortal entity then the former surviving a battle with thanos’ crowd
- I think they missed a perfect ending for Captain America by having him walk back into the bar at the arranged time
- the girl power scene was just a face palm
- Bucky not getting the shield was a strange choice
- GoT got criticised for plot armour but jeez there’s some dead weight hanging around after the last battle

I really enjoyed Ant Man though I felt he lifted it when he came along and it was clever in the most part. I really enjoyed the stone gathering scenes too.

Victor · 01-05-2019 06:46PM

razorblunt wrote: »

- Paltrow in general is appalling, when did she get a suit?

When Tony finds his daughter with the helmet in the garden, there is a comment about him wanting Pepper to do things in the bedroom.

FutureGuy · 01-05-2019 06:56PM

Great movie but that all-female superhero scene was pathetic. The number of people in the cinema that groaned when it happened was very noticeable.

Mitch Connor · 01-05-2019 07:51PM

I seemed Tony had stopped being iron man, so I felt it odd he built a suit for pepper.

RickBlaine · 01-05-2019 08:58PM

FutureGuy wrote: »

Great movie but that all-female superhero scene was pathetic. The number of people in the cinema that groaned when it happened was very noticeable.

The idea was fine but the execution was poor. All of them lining up like that felt very contrived. And Captain Marvel just flew through that giant metal spaceship twice. She didn't need any help going a few kilometers through a bunch of infantry aliens.

A better way would have been a one shot of the camera swooping around the battlefield and showing each of the heroines in action, like that shot during the battle of New York in The Avengers.

JP Liz V1 · 01-05-2019 09:51PM

Agent Coulson wrote: »

6 days in and it is the 10th biggest grossing film of all time.

I thought it would be 1st by now, what is?

I don't know why Pepper had to suit up

Foxtrol · 01-05-2019 10:10PM

RickBlaine wrote: »

The idea was fine but the execution was poor. All of them lining up like that felt very contrived. And Captain Marvel just flew through that giant metal spaceship twice. She didn't need any help going a few kilometers through a bunch of infantry aliens.

A better way would have been a one shot of the camera swooping around the battlefield and showing each of the heroines in action, like that shot during the battle of New York in The Avengers.

The Avengers scene in NY involves them all off doing their individual Avenger thing, across several blocks and height levels, only to converge in one small circle for no apparent reason, including a completely uncontrollable Hulk. That shot gets a complete pass from everybody, as it is incredibly iconic, but is just as contrived. I still contend that if that was any other group in Endgame converging together it wouldn’t get a tiny percent of the focus this has.

Slydice · 01-05-2019 10:20PM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

I thought it would be 1st by now, what is?

I don't know why Pepper had to suit up

By Amount (worldwide):
Avatar is 1st at $2,788 million
Endgame currently 8th at $1,481 million
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/world/

Another take on earnings are the ones which are inflation adjusted.
I only know of the US Box Office inflation adjusted on boxofficemojo.

US Box Office - inflation adjusted
Gone with the Wind is 1st at $1,822 million
Endgame currently 121th at $427 million
https://www.boxofficemojo.com/alltime/adjusted.htm

I saw Grace do a video recently and I don't know where she got the figure but she had a Worldwide inflation adjusted for Gone with the Wind at somewhere around $3,800 million.

JP Liz V1 · 01-05-2019 10:21PM

Agent Coulson wrote: »

Anyone else think RDJ really didn't look healthy in the film?

Yes I thought that also, hope he is ok

RDJ was epic as Iron Man and to think no one wanted him as Tony Stark

Piss Ant

Scott Laing was the true hero, his plan worked

Slydice · 01-05-2019 10:22PM

JP Liz V1 wrote: »

Piss Ant Scott Laing was the true hero, his plan worked

*muffled whimpers of Dr Strange fans in the distance*

RickBlaine · 01-05-2019 10:27PM

Foxtrol wrote: »

The Avengers scene in NY involves them all off doing their individual Avenger thing, across several blocks and height levels, only to converge in one small circle for no apparent reason, including a completely uncontrollable Hulk. That shot gets a complete pass from everybody, as it is incredibly iconic, but is just as contrived. I still contend that if that was any other group in Endgame converging together it wouldn’t get a tiny percent of the focus this has.

I'm pretty sure the shot I'm talking about takes place after the iconic circle shot. They didn't all converge after the single take shot.

Hulk was in the circle shot because Banner arrived on his motorcycle to the group and became the Hulk just seconds before the shot by punching that giant flying creature thing.

JP Liz V1 · 01-05-2019 10:34PM

Tazzimus wrote: »

The dude is 53 and had a fairly hard early life with all the drugs etc.

I actually think he looks alright considering his age, not Paul Rudd levels of alright, but decent for a man approaching his mid 50's

I think RDJ is very sexy and with all these movies he must be rolling in the money, how much did he make from this one alone?

Guy:Incognito · 01-05-2019 11:49PM

Victor wrote: »

When Tony finds his daughter with the helmet in the garden, there is a comment about him wanting Pepper to do things in the bedroom.

And also 6 years ago in IM3.

The stage was set for it.

Or further back in the comics........

Guy:Incognito · 01-05-2019 11:52PM

Slydice wrote: »

By Amount (worldwide):
Titanic is 1st at $2,788 million
.

Avatar

Looking at the figures, I'd have assumed a relatively standard split , percentage wise , between US and overseas box offices. But the top US movie , the force awakens , did nearly 200m more than Avatar in the US , but only took in 50% of its overseas total.

Avengers: Endgame [** SPOILERS FROM POST 613 **]

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Avengers: Endgame [ SPOILERS FROM POST 613 ]