"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forwa

Roger Hassenforder · 30-04-2019 06:17PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

GOT could probably spend the first half hour next week with the camera taking a time lapse of a bucket of sh1t in a barn somewhere, and you'd have lads on here defending it, saying it was intergral to the plot, and harkening back to a similar bucket of sh1t that appeared briefly in a scene in episode 3..

And you'll have more saying they used the wrong bucket, and more saying the couldnt actually see the bucket!

Triceratops Ballet · 30-04-2019 06:23PM

riffmongous wrote:

Because it can happen inadvertently through bad writing, which I've given you an example of many times and you keep ignoring. If the NK isn't intelligent and capable of planning and possessed with foresight how does he keep getting everything perfectly timed?

If he's planning and capable of foresight why haven't they shown it? He didn't have to plan any of this he just needed a dozy kid to wander into his garden, get his mark on him and follow him home, that could have happened any time, it just happens that the conditions that led this kid to this were set in motion by the murder of John Aryn, the death of Ned Stark, the fall of Winterfell etc etc, none of this has the markings of a plan. He's a madman with an desire to wipe out humanity, he can raise an army from anywhere he goes he does not need a plan he just needs an opportunity. All of the plot points that led Bran north of the wall were set in motion by plans of humans.
Don't you think that if he'd been getting ravens about the birth of dragons etc and it was an important plot point we'd have seen it at least once in 8 seasons? Like I agree the writing ain't what it used to be, but there is so much that gets over explained or foreshadowed in the show now, that it's a bit of a stretch to think that the writers just forgot or didn't bother letting us in on the inner thoughts of the night king if they are/were in anyway important.

Lor11 · 30-04-2019 06:23PM

Did anyone else notice in the scene where Arya came across some wights in what looked like the library that it seemed like they were looking at the books as of looking for something? My initial thoughts were Sam's stolen books and would the NK have ordered them to find them and if so for what purpose. Could be completely wrong about what I saw, it was fairly dark

lawred2 · 30-04-2019 06:25PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

I've talked about "plot armour" in real life about this very show, with a friend who had a similar passion for it.

Not much wrong with being well into something. It'll never make me sound like a twat, cause I wouldn't use it with many people; Just people into it.

Like us, here, in the Game of Thrones forum on a discussion website. Twats? Fuk off.

https://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/PlotArmor

Had an old read to introduce myself to the term plot armour... Quite funny really and based on last night one could say that it applied to Jaime, Brienne and Sam.

eviltimeban · 30-04-2019 06:37PM

tunguska wrote: »

And then along comes "The long night".........That was better than 99% of films Ive seen in the cinema this last year. Id even say it was better than Avengers Endgame which I only saw at the weekend. It was perfect, in every way(well maybe the lighting couldve been a tad brighter). Jaw was well and truly dropped.

Agree, I was literally on the edge of my seat for the entire episode. The darkness / difficulty in making things out made it even more thrilling as you couldn't get a handle on what was going on, much like if you were actually there. It was actually quite stressful!

The "disappearing sword flames" in the distance was one of the most amazing scenes of total annihilation, and growing dread, without actually showing it, that I've ever seen on TV, or movies for that matter.

razorblunt · 30-04-2019 06:37PM

Lor11 wrote: »

Did anyone else notice in the scene where Arya came across some wights in what looked like the library that it seemed like they were looking at the books as of looking for something? My initial thoughts were Sam's stolen books and would the NK have ordered them to find them and if so for what purpose. Could be completely wrong about what I saw, it was fairly dark

I actually thought the same but on a rewatch their hand knocks against it, I think.

Loafing Oaf · 30-04-2019 06:49PM

Deleted User wrote: »

GOT could probably spend the first half hour next week with the camera taking a time lapse of a bucket of sh1t in a barn somewhere, and you'd have lads on here defending it, saying it was intergral to the plot, and harkening back to a similar bucket of sh1t that appeared briefly in a scene in episode 3..

In fairness, it'd be hard to live up to those scenes of Sam slopping out at the Citadel...

TerrorFirmer · 30-04-2019 06:52PM

There are people who thought this episode was genuinely outstanding. There are those who thought it was brilliant, with a few quibbles. There are others who thought it was really good, albeit with a few serious issues. And then there are those who thought it was really entertaining, but marred heavily by serious flaws.

Very few people actually thought the episode in itself was objectivity simply bad. I personally consider it excellent entertainment, but weak Game of Thrones. Most of even the harshest critical watchers would feel the same I would wager.

Most notably among the criticism is definitely the poor quality of writing - character and narrative - compared to earlier seasons, which leads to disappointment by the high standard the show itself set, particularly S1 through S4. Now, the thing is, whether or not that affects your perception of, or enjoyment of the show, is a completely subjective thing. Some people care deeply. Others don't care at all. Some sit in the middle, either comfortably or uncomfortably. Any or all are equally valid really.

Anyway, despite the differences in opinion, most people here manage to engage in good natured discussion about how the show has changed (or how it hasn't), the direction it's chosen, what defines a good episode of GOT, and all the rest.

There are definitely a few though who for whatever reason can't seem to accept any criticism of the show at all. So far we've had poindexters, twats, hipsters, weirdos to describe people who have major problems with the narrative of the show in recent episodes.

You'd swear the negative discussion points were centring on Jaimie Lannisters sword strap being an inconsistent color from episode to episode rather than talking about a well documented shift in pace from S7 onwards that even the producers themselves acknowledged, as well as a drop in the quality of narrative writing that's been acknowledged and discussed on pretty much every discussion board going, as well as noted in a high levels of reviews too.

But the thing is, being heavily critical of, and disappointed in, GOT doesn't mean you don't still like it or enjoy it. I've read reviews that are critical of exactly those things but go on to award it a high rating simply because it's still, at the end of the day, undeniably high class entertainment. Bad GOT is still great TV on its worst day -always has been.

If you're of that thought train, you just wish it did better....mostly because it can, and most certainly used to, do so much better. That's what most disappointing for many of us.

Not everyone feels that way and that's fine too. But no-one's a twat, nerd, hipster, or whatever for feeling either way.

MisterAnarchy · 30-04-2019 07:07PM

fitz wrote: »

I posted a bit on this over on the book thread: The music took me out of it towards the end...Ramin Djawadi re-used some compositional techniques that are core to his Westworld themes, and it started to sound like music from that show. It was bloody lazy.

On rewatch last night, it was even worse, imo. First time round it took me out of the moment cause it sounded like Westworld (he totally reuses melodic ideas from that theme!), but second time round, it's not just that. It's far too pretty. When the strings come back after the solo piano section (which was quite effective), it's far too concerned with sounding epic and beautiful, and it's just totally disconnected tone wise from what's happening on screen. If you're noticing the music, he's blown it, and it's not the first time he's done it in big scenes (season 6 finale was another good example).

What's worse is he'd done a great job up to then building tension. Nothing shandy the piece above in isolation, but it's a bad piece of scoring imo cause it just wasn't appropriate.

I dont think it sounds like anything in Westworld .

Its a nice piece , its meant to convene the despair of the central characters as most of them are in what looks like perilous situations .
Bran is about to be executed and the army of the dead have overrun Winterfell,it looks like all is lost , its a sombre piece with an uplifting end .
Its not meant to convey tension or suspense ,the previous hour was mostly that .

Feisar · 30-04-2019 07:11PM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

They were unimportant to 90% of the intrigues. GOT is good despite the magic not because of it.

GOT was/is a brilliant drama full of intrigue set in a sword and sorcery world, it's not good or bad "despite" the magic.

Galwayguy35 · 30-04-2019 07:16PM

Could hardly see a thing when the battle was on, don't know if it was my 10 year old tele or what.

Feisar · 30-04-2019 07:18PM

riffmongous wrote: »

You wouldn't be allowed directly call someone here a twat, so why allow it indirectly? The thread is divisive enough as it is anyway, no need for wums

Divisive? As in it's not an echo chamber, well that's good. I'm happy for people to disagree with me, point out where I may be wrong. Wrong being subjective with the same of liking something or not. I may even accept the point and change my opinion. At which point I would acknowledge that to the poster and thank them for their input.
To much one-upmanship on boards.

30-04-2019 07:22PM

Actually I forgot about it at the time but If Jon was surrounded by zombies and certain to die in all likelyhood near the end and Dany came in with the Dragon and covered him and all of them in fire it would have been epic.

Ok I believe you now Jon

Loafing Oaf · 30-04-2019 07:24PM

Franz Von Peppercorn wrote: »

They were unimportant to 90% of the intrigues. GOT is good despite the magic not because of it.

Literary critic Daniel Mendelsohn makes this case (tentatively):
But what keeps you riveted, in the end, are the characters and their all-too-familiar human dilemmas....A question worth raising about Martin’s novels is how different they’d feel if you subtracted the dragons and witches and undead; my feeling is, not much.
http://my-nepenthe.blogspot.com/2013/10/the-women-and-thrones.html

The Golden Miller · 30-04-2019 07:34PM

How do people think the battle stacks up against the battle for Helms Deelp and the battle of the Pelennor Fields?

HalloweenJack · 30-04-2019 07:35PM

I haven't read through all the posts so apologies if I say something that others have mentioned.

Re the darkness, I watched on HBO and I didn't have any problems. The bit when the dead were storming the walls and it was hard to see what was going on between the darkness and the smoke and the fire was great for me. I felt claustrophobic and panicked just watching it. For any piece of art to do that is amazing. The bit where the dothraki charged and one by one their flames went out was terrifying. All the shots of the wall of fire surrounding Winterfell were great too. Visually, it was a feast of an episode.

Theon and Jorah's storylines are quite similar in many ways. Both were loyal servants who betrayed their keepers and who then took long roads to redemption. Jorah will have died happy to have Daenarys weeping over him while Theon got an acknowledgement from the Starks that he was trying to do the right thing. I liked both characters and was sad to see them die but they were good character arcs.

I was surprised to see Arya kill the NK. I was certain it'd be Jon, Daenarys or Sam (especially after he very obviously got the dragonglass before the battle and then somehow safely stumbling through the battle to survive it all). Considering Arya's arc, it was always possible that she'd be able to do it. It felt like a bit of deus ex machina at the time but given the overall story of the show, it is one that worked.

I thought the Jon and Daenarys stuff was a bit weak. Just like BoB, he somehow survives being surrounded by thousands of people. I thought they both could have done a lot more damage with those dragons too.

Of the characters that died, I think they had all served their purpose so it wasn't just random.

As for the end of the NK, I honestly expected this episode to be all about King's Landing after what seemed like an all too obvious tease from last week's ending. There was a point where I expected Cersei and her elephants to turn up and swing the battle back the other way.

I do feel the whole NK story deserved a better ending considering how much its been built up to since the very first episode and how invincible he seemed to be. Yes, I know, dragonglass and all that but he could have at least engaged Jon in a bit of hand to hand combat. Considering he heard Jon sneaking up behind but couldn't cop on to Arya til it was too late felt a bit daft. It felt cheap when it happened and the way it did.

Alas, the series is called Game of Thrones and with the Song of Fire and Ice done with, the final three episodes can focus on the Iron Throne once more.

As for what can happen, is there a hint that Sansa and Tyrion can make some kind of arrangement? If Cersei, Daenarys and Jon all fall foul of the struggle, would Tyrion not have some kind of claim?

The Hound was frustrating in his cowardice at times. He's a massive hardass but he seemed to be lost at times. I know he did help save Arya but he seemed to be avoiding a lot of the fighting. Thankfully, it sets it up nicely for his showdown with the Mountain.

It was a gripping episode but somewhat anti-climatic. However, it gives us three episodes to focus entirely on the final struggle for the throne.

FWIW, I don't think any ending was ever going to satisfy fans. Let the NK and his army destroy Westeros and its too depressing, kill him and its going to seem too easy. Similarly, whatever happens with the Iron Throne will divide people (unless it's Sam).

ogsjw · 30-04-2019 07:35PM

Lor11 wrote: »

I'm my mind the iron throne plot has always being the primary objective of the show. That's my opinion.

Imagine watching a show for years and missing the whole point like this...

ThunbergsAreGo · 30-04-2019 07:45PM

PressRun wrote: »

yourdeadwright wrote: »

This bit depends ,

Iv a feeling they mite play Danny as power mad, make her seem happy they have won no matter the cost , If she shows no feelings over the loss of thousands men and the Dothraki Jon may start to doubt her agenda ,

Remember Jon has show no interest in the Throne, He may not want to send his people into another war so soon ,

Next episode will set that all up one way or another,

Will there be time for this? As far as I can see, the next plot point is taking care of Cersei, and I think the last episodes will focus purely on defeating her. I don't think there is enough time to deal with the Cersei problem and Danerys, unless they do it in a kind of rushed way. Cersei is already doing the Mad Queen routine anyway.[/quote]

What Cersei problem?

Sonics2k · 30-04-2019 07:45PM

I honestly don't know if it was my TV, and that I watched it in HD, but it wasn't nearly as dark as I thought it was going to be. Certainly the initial section was with the Dothraki, but the rest was pretty good. Not a fan of the amount of shaky cam they used, I get it's supposed to make things more jarring and add a hectic feeling, but really it just made it confusing.

I did find it very off-putting that one moment our 'heroes' were in danger, eg Sam and Jaimie literally being piled on by dozens of UD and then seemingly being free later on.

In a way, I'm kind of relieved they didn't kill off a load of people in this one, I think that would have been too obvious but this leaves them all open to deaths later on in the series.

TheValeyard · 30-04-2019 08:07PM

naughtb4 wrote: »

What Cersei problem?

That she is a complete and utter psychotic cow.

30-04-2019 08:09PM

Watching it the second time around. It's decent enough once you accept the blunders. It's visually stunning. Still find the parts inside the halls to be a bit silly. No need for them imo. I don't get why some wights are suddenly shambling around. The pace can be slowed down with the crypt and dragon scenes.

Messilandre says "What do we say to the god of death?" to Arya, is that coincidence that Arya's sword master said that? Or is there supposed to be some kind of connection?

ThunbergsAreGo · 30-04-2019 08:10PM

Murray TheDemonic TalkingSkull wrote: »

naughtb4 wrote: »

What Cersei problem?

That she is a complete and utter psychotic cow.

Just like Danearys?

sdanseo · 30-04-2019 08:14PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Watching it the second time around. It's decent enough once you accept the blunders. It's visually stunning. Still find the parts inside the halls to be a bit silly. No need for them imo. I don't get why some wights are suddenly shambling around. The pace can be slowed down with the crypt and dragon scenes.

Messilandre says "What do we say to the god of death?" to Arya, is that coincidence that Arya's sword master said that? Or is there supposed to be some kind of connection?

Both bravossi, possibly a common phrase just like the greeting "Valar Morghulis"

The Golden Miller wrote: »

How do people think the battle stacks up against the battle for Helms Deelp and the battle of the Pelennor Fields?

About 99% less CGI in GOT. There is a 40-minute behind the scenes posted which is absolutely brilliant:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_3M0Xt97aFI

Mousewar · 30-04-2019 08:19PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Watching it the second time around. It's decent enough once you accept the blunders. It's visually stunning. Still find the parts inside the halls to be a bit silly. No need for them imo.

Those scenes, which were mostly of Arya evading wights, was to emphasise her ability to evade detection and move stealthily, which is quite important later on.

TheValeyard · 30-04-2019 08:27PM

naughtb4 wrote: »

Just like Danearys?

She has Dragons.
Dragons are awesome.
I choose the side with Dragons.

Brock Turnpike · 30-04-2019 08:27PM

alchemist33 wrote: »

dominatinMC wrote: »

Were they really dead all along??:eek: I can't remember exactly how it panned out, I thought it was just in the "flash-sideways" segments of the final season where they were all in purgatory? Everything that happened prior to that actually did happen. Anyway, apologies I don't want to derail this thread!

I'm afraid it's true. They were dead.

(I havent read the last 30 pages but assume this is about Lost)

Spoiler. Reported.

nix · 30-04-2019 08:27PM

Deleted User wrote: »

Watching it the second time around. It's decent enough once you accept the blunders. It's visually stunning. Still find the parts inside the halls to be a bit silly. No need for them imo. I don't get why some wights are suddenly shambling around. The pace can be slowed down with the crypt and dragon scenes.

Messilandre says "What do we say to the god of death?" to Arya, is that coincidence that Arya's sword master said that? Or is there supposed to be some kind of connection?

Pretty sure shes meant to be quoting the sword master, not her first time quoting the dead shes never met, she done it with Jon Snow with the aul "You know nothing Jon Snow" put the ****s right up him..

The other red woman put the ****s up Varys also when she was asking him to remember the voice he heard from the flame when the sorcerer cut off his junk and threw them into the flames back in the day.

kunst nugget · 30-04-2019 08:33PM

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

alchemist33 wrote: »

Spoiler. Reported.

Jesus... Seriously?!?!

That show finished almost a decade ago.

Whelo79 · 30-04-2019 08:37PM

Are the Starks going to unite the 7 Kingdoms through marriage.

Jon & Dany(Targaryen)
Arya & Gendry (Baratheon)
Sansa & Tyrian (Lannister)

All claims to the Iron Throne. It will be a very interesting final 3 episodes.

lawred2 · 30-04-2019 08:50PM

Whelo79 wrote: »

Are the Starks going to unite the 7 Kingdoms through marriage.

Jon & Dany(Targaryen)
Arya & Gendry (Baratheon)
Sansa & Tyrian (Lannister)

All claims to the Iron Throne. It will be a very interesting final 3 episodes.

Jon is not a Stark

"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forwa

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