"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forwa

NuMarvel · 30-04-2019 04:46PM

paulbok wrote: »

If half the white walkers went with the NK and the rest fought Jamie, Brienne etc, killing one or two, one or two WW died with their wights dropping giving a brief respite to the living only to be swamped again, it would have satisfied a lot of the complaints about the battle. Less WW in the Godswood would also have made it more plausible that Arya could sneak past them too.

Tacitus Kilgore · 30-04-2019 04:48PM

NuMarvel wrote: »

Fewer

I'd watch GOT just for this recurring joke, excellent gag

paulbok · 30-04-2019 04:48PM

NuMarvel wrote: »

Well played.

Keyzer · 30-04-2019 04:51PM

fash wrote: »

For that matter, they could have had Arya die killing the night king. What use is she moving forward?

Thinking about what I would expect for the night king (and borrowing some ideas from people above)- some form of mental communion between Bran and the night king - a psychic battle which distracts him - followed by an attack by perhaps Jon/Jaime - perhaps Jaime dying, sneak attack by Arya, Arya kills him but dies doing so.

A good use of valaryan steel, there is a narrative cost to killing the night king and you avoid the cliche of Jon killing him.

Edit: I'm narratively satisfied with Arya killing him - but without the silly retconning of Melisandre telling her "I knew all the time- even when I said it was the bears, I knew it was you" and a reasonable distraction and death toll allows a more realistic sneak attack.

My thoughts precisely... a psychic battle which distracts him for even a few seconds.

Arya sneaks in during this time.

Arya kills NK but Bran's brain is fried...

Arya kills NK but dies in the process...

Triceratops Ballet · 30-04-2019 04:52PM

riffmongous wrote: »

Because bad writing :pac: or a lack of screen time, which is a choice. What happens if the NK comes south any other year in the last 10000?

Exactly they made a choice about how important he was as a character/threat in the show and wrote accordingly. I don't understand how it can be argued that a fictional character has more to him than the things that are written about him.

Like obviously if we were talking about a real historical figure and the writers had just ignored things and conveniently told a specific story they wanted to tell then that's one thing, but this is not that!

Riskymove · 30-04-2019 04:53PM

alchemist33 wrote: »

I'm afraid it's true. They were dead.

(I havent read the last 30 pages but assume this is about Lost)

they were dead in the last episode....their "souls" linked etc etc

they were not dead on the island to begin with!!

anyways

PressRun · 30-04-2019 04:56PM

podgemonster wrote: »

Happens to encounter a dragon? I dare say the timing of the NK march south was near perfect. The Dragon was key to the march of the dead in order to destroy the wall. The NK waited until magic returned to the world before launching his attack. The fist of the first men occurs after the dragons are hatched. He's still in the land of Always Winter in S4E4. In Hardhome he recruits a mass amount of Wildlings to his cause as there are trapped by the sea. The scenario in S7E6 was a complete trap to lure Dany and her dragons into the field and in which he took one down.

It was also period where the 7 kingdoms were after a major war. Entire houses gone (Tyrell, Bolton, Baratheon, Frey, Tarly) and the Night watch almost non-existent, so decimated Kingdom is easier to destroy.

Kind of a shame after all that that he didn't even make it south. Would Cersei and friends even believe he ever existed? Didn't Danerys also have a vision of the throne covered in ice? I guess that doesn't really mean anything now?

Greyfox · 30-04-2019 05:03PM

Like most GOT fans i'm delighted that Jon, Danny, Arya, Sansa, Tyrion and Jamie are still alive as we have some amazing conversations to look forward to. The Tyrion/Jamie/Cersei relationship is the best sibling rivalry in television history, can wait to see how it ends. Yes Ned starks death was brilliant for GOT but at the time Ned as a character had fully served his purpose.

30-04-2019 05:03PM

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Exactly they made a choice about how important he was as a character/threat in the show and wrote accordingly. I don't understand how it can be argued that a fictional character has more to him than the things that are written about him.

Like obviously if we were talking about a real historical figure and the writers had just ignored things and conveniently told a specific story they wanted to tell then that's one thing, but this is not that!

Because it can happen inadvertently through bad writing, which I've given you an example of many times and you keep ignoring. If the NK isn't intelligent and capable of planning and possessed with foresight how does he keep getting everything perfectly timed?

DM_7 · 30-04-2019 05:07PM

My observation with GOT is that they ran out of time, it could easily have lasted another 2 series to tell the full story as well and coherent as it started. Not possible to keep the cast and people working on the show long enough to achieve it though.

I think some of the jumps were required due to the time left to finish the story.

Santan · 30-04-2019 05:11PM

TheUnderfaker wrote: »

I'm pretty annoyed that I've been conditioned to not care about what happens with the Iron Throne because the war against the Night King was supposedly all that mattered. Now that he's been taken care of in a few hours it looks like we're back to fighting for the Iron Throne, which the show itself has deemed to be trivial.

This sums it up for me, since the very first episode until the last one, we are fully led tho believe that the fight for the iron throne was insignificant, that the WW are the biggest threat to life as a whole, led to believe the power of the NK is bigger than so much of what the living can face and fight against. In the end they don't even give us one fight scene. I feel very underwhelmed, I enjoyed the episode, not bothered by who killed the NK, just how it happened, no real effort just a quick stabbing, so after 8 seasons we can look back and say the biggest threat to man kind was just a really good javelin thrower. Just leaves me a bit deflated.

Working class heroes · 30-04-2019 05:18PM

Ayra was never going to snuff it. Sure isn't she carrying the true heir in her belly?

ogsjw · 30-04-2019 05:20PM

Been conditioned? The Iron Throne has always been presented as a relic, and the scrambling for it ill-advised or pathetic, while the real fight gets ignored; it's commentary on the real world really. Hell look at Irish politicians; they achieve very little that needs achieving once they're salaried.

The throne was shown in ruin all the way back in Season 2, the fact this was the plan all along, for both the books and the show, and a central theme to the story should not be a surprise to anyone...

podgemonster · 30-04-2019 05:23PM

PressRun wrote: »

Kind of a shame after all that that he didn't even make it south. Would Cersei and friends even believe he ever existed? Didn't Danerys also have a vision of the throne covered in ice? I guess that doesn't really mean anything now?

:D Are you rooting for the undead just to prove a point to Cersei?

PressRun · 30-04-2019 05:27PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

This bit depends ,

Iv a feeling they mite play Danny as power mad, make her seem happy they have won no matter the cost , If she shows no feelings over the loss of thousands men and the Dothraki Jon may start to doubt her agenda ,

Remember Jon has show no interest in the Throne, He may not want to send his people into another war so soon ,

Next episode will set that all up one way or another,

[/QUOTE]

Will there be time for this? As far as I can see, the next plot point is taking care of Cersei, and I think the last episodes will focus purely on defeating her. I don't think there is enough time to deal with the Cersei problem and Danerys, unless they do it in a kind of rushed way. Cersei is already doing the Mad Queen routine anyway.

Lor11 · 30-04-2019 05:29PM

Forgive me if I'm incorrect here but we have being watching a show has two major plotlines. The Great War between the living and died and the fight for the Iron Throne. I'm my mind the iron throne plot has always being the primary objective of the show. That's my opinion.
If the night king had survived the battle of Winterfell, Westeros would have being destroyed in a matter of days and the fight for the iron throne would be pointless He always had to die in this battle and I feel that writers did it in a way that no-one predicted (at least from anything I have read in the days leading up to this episode) All the major characters survived because they are still needed. I am not saying the episode was perfect, they were plenty wtf moments. But me thinks they're are some on here being overly negative because it's not what they envisaged or predicted and don't like to give the writers any credit for the master stroke that was Arya.

lawred2 · 30-04-2019 05:33PM

The two supposed leaders (Dany and Jon) were abject and may have spent both their military and leadership capital. Who would march with them now?

extra gravy · 30-04-2019 05:35PM

"Plot armour" and "retconning"...do people actually use these terms in real life conversations?! Seems like a good way of making yourself sound like a complete twat.

lawred2 · 30-04-2019 05:37PM

extra gravy wrote: »

"Plot armour" and "retconning"...do people actually use these terms in real life conversations?! Seems like a good way of making yourself sound like a complete twat.

Never heard such terms in any sphere of life myself

30-04-2019 05:44PM

extra gravy wrote: »

"Plot armour" and "retconning"...do people actually use these terms in real life conversations?! Seems like a good way of making yourself sound like a complete twat.

Reported

ASOT · 30-04-2019 05:46PM

riffmongous wrote: »

Reported

He has forum armour he'll be grand

30-04-2019 05:48PM

ASOT wrote: »

He has forum armour he'll be grand

You wouldn't be allowed directly call someone here a twat, so why allow it indirectly? The thread is divisive enough as it is anyway, no need for wums

J. Marston · 30-04-2019 05:52PM

extra gravy wrote: »

"Plot armour" and "retconning"...do people actually use these terms in real life conversations?! Seems like a good way of making yourself sound like a complete twat.

Plot armour, fan service, deus ex machina, retconning, Mary Sue etc...

Give me strength.

30-04-2019 05:52PM

Everyone is a twat but me

NuMarvel · 30-04-2019 05:53PM

extra gravy wrote: »

"Plot armour" and "retconning"...do people actually use these terms in real life conversations?!

No, but they might use them in discussions about fiction, which is what we're doing here.

If we were to restrict our posts to vocabulary used in real life, then we'd never be able to talk about dragons, wights, warging, or even Westeros itself.

tunguska · 30-04-2019 05:54PM

I'll admit to not really buying into GOT when a friend loaned me the season 1 box set all those years ago. I thought the scenes went on way too long and the characters talked way too much about stuff that didnt "seem" to matter. But for what ever reasons I stuck with it and watched season 2. Thought it was better than season one, still didnt know what most of the characters were on about half of the time though. After that I thought it got better and better until it got to the point where I'd finish an episode with my jaw on the ground every time. "Hold the door" was the moment I realised that all those waffling scenes in the first season actually meant something(I was just too ignorant at the time to know it).
And then along comes "The long night".........That was better than 99% of films Ive seen in the cinema this last year. Id even say it was better than Avengers Endgame which I only saw at the weekend. It was perfect, in every way(well maybe the lighting couldve been a tad brighter). Jaw was well and truly dropped.
The only question Im left with is this: Is the night king really dead? I mean theres a few episodes left, whats gonna happen?

30-04-2019 05:57PM

I've talked about "plot armour" in real life about this very show, with a friend who had a similar passion for it.

Not much wrong with being well into something. It'll never make me sound like a twat, cause I wouldn't use it with many people; Just people into it.

Like us, here, in the Game of Thrones forum on a discussion website. Twats? Fuk off.

nix · 30-04-2019 06:04PM

J. Marston wrote: »

Plot armour, fan service, deus ex machina, retconning, Mary Sue etc...

Give me strength.

Get back in yer "Everything is awesome" bubble already :pac:

30-04-2019 06:13PM

GOT could probably spend the first half hour next week with the camera taking a time lapse of a bucket of sh1t in a barn somewhere, and you'd have lads on here defending it, saying it was intergral to the plot, and harkening back to a similar bucket of sh1t that appeared briefly in a scene in episode 3..

J. Marston · 30-04-2019 06:16PM

nix wrote: »

Get back in yer "Everything is awesome" bubble already :pac:

I never left it! Everything is awesome.

Except Sam. Sam can piss off at this stage.

"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forwa

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