"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forwa

How Soon Is Now · 30-04-2019 11:59AM

biggebruv wrote: »

Maybe there’s a link to being too invested in the online theorys world the exact same thing happened with LOST the online world for that show got so much out of hand they were never gonna be pleased with how it wrapped up

I remember i was part of it :pac:

biggebruv · 30-04-2019 11:59AM

Penn wrote: »

Two dragons vs Zero elephants though...

I think the dragons will be bruised up a good bit after that battle. No doubt Cersei has some explosives setup and ready to go like season 6 finale

Mokuba · 30-04-2019 12:00PM

biggebruv wrote: »

Maybe there’s a link to being too invested in the online theorys world the exact same thing happened with LOST the online world for that show got so much out of hand they were never gonna be pleased with how it wrapped up

Online theories have been the show and books bread and butter for years, R+L=J, Azor Ahai, Maggie the Frog and the Valonquar.

People loved the R+L=J reveal because it made sense. None of this stuff does, similar to how Lost failed. It's a problem with poor writing, not viewer expectations.

leggo · 30-04-2019 12:02PM

RollieFingers wrote: »

It's embarrassing, calling people weirdos because they have a different opinion. I enjoy reading all the opinions on here, imagine taking a TV show that seriously.

It is weird man, to spend 80 minutes watching something then to nitpick it to death for reasons you were fine with before. It’s like choosing to go to a restaurant you’ve always gone to, ordered the same thing, then giving out that it didn’t do it for you anymore like that’s the restaurant’s fault. You chose to go there, they gave you food consistent with what you ordered in that choice, you liked it last week but don’t now for some reason. That’s your right but it’s not their fault and to think it is is odd.

Loafing Oaf · 30-04-2019 12:03PM

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Ya I was actually hoping Bran would of caused something to happen in the end. I knew the pace the scene was going at something was gonna happen especially seeing as The Night King and Bran have this interaction together for few seconds where its like there talking without words!

Yeah I thought there would at least be some kind of Star Wars-style mental arm wrestling and Bran would somehow deploy his 'powers' against the Night King but instead they might as well just have been some conventional human warlord seeking the throne and a ten-year-old heir he was desperate to wipe out. And one of the kid's guardians rescued him in the end using a plain old dagger.

NuMarvel · 30-04-2019 12:03PM

Pepp1989 wrote: »

Would you risk exposing yourself for this or wait another ten mins and have your wights do the job?

I've just survived dragon fire, which is the biggest weapon my opponents have. The only guy in recent memory who has come close to being a threat is cut off from Bran by my ever increasing forces, and everyone defending Bran has been cut down. And I have long been portrayed as arrogrant.

I'm totally doing this myself.

Feisar · 30-04-2019 12:03PM

Hmm it was pretty good however:

The Dothraki, that was silly but it did build the sense of foreboding so a pass in my book. Still, the believably of the tactics...

The darkness of the scenes was off-putting, I get what they were going for and maybe as someone said a OLED would make it look better.

The choppy "Bourne" style fighting was uninteresting.

The main characters slogging away against the horde while others died off was stretching it.

The ending was anti-climatic. The whole 3 Eyed Raven thing was sort of redundant. Arya just ninja'd it, why didn't she sneak into their camp and kill him if she was that good? No need for 100,000 to die!?!

IMHO they came up with a plan for the story line and made it fit even though it clearly wasn't working. Now that's just my opinion I'm no great critic or anything.

leggo · 30-04-2019 12:03PM

RollieFingers wrote: »

It's embarrassing, calling people weirdos because they have a different opinion. I enjoy reading all the opinions on here, imagine taking a TV show that seriously.

It is weird man, to spend 80 minutes watching something then to nitpick it to death for reasons you were fine with before. It’s like choosing to go to a restaurant you’ve always gone to, ordered the same thing, then giving out that it didn’t do it for you anymore like that’s the restaurant’s fault. You chose to go there, they gave you food consistent with what you ordered in that choice, you liked it last week but don’t now for some reason. That’s your right but it’s not their fault and to think it is is odd.

Triceratops Ballet · 30-04-2019 12:03PM

Essien wrote: »

I have no problem with the execution of everything she did in last nights episode but for her story to peak with her killing the NK instead of Cersei just seems like throwing a curve ball for the sake of it.

I fully accept she is capable of what she did due to all the training we saw, but from a story telling perspective I just think it made no sense.

I guess I've just never thought of her as the person who kills Cersei tbh so I'm not waiting on that. Unless she kills her wearing someone elses face, that's the only version of Arya killing Cersei that I'd be conceivably expecting

nix · 30-04-2019 12:04PM

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

The night king, has had no evolution, his arc has always been the same and from a character point of view he is utterly uninteresting.

Thats one thing they could have and should have explored more on this season and last, Bran can literally look into any moment in the past, they could have shown us more in regards to the Night kings creation and his motives going forward, just like they showed us how hodor came to be and how Jon was born and rescued.

Mokuba · 30-04-2019 12:04PM

leggo wrote: »

It is weird man, to spend 80 minutes watching something then to nitpick it to death for reasons you were fine with before. It’s like choosing to go to a restaurant you’ve always gone to, ordered the same thing, then giving out that it didn’t do it for you anymore like that’s the restaurant’s fault. You chose to go there, they gave you food consistent with what you ordered in that choice, you liked it last week but don’t now for some reason. That’s your right but it’s not their fault and to think it is is odd.

He show is nothing like what it was when it had the books to follow. Sharp decline in quality as soon as they ran out of material, with the exception of a few admittedly good episodes in Season 6.

Season 5 and 7 and now this episode are absolutely terrible. Seasons where they were responsible for the plot and dialogue.

How Soon Is Now · 30-04-2019 12:05PM

Mokuba wrote: »

Online theories have been the show and books bread and butter for years, R+L=J, Azor Ahai, Maggie the Frog and the Valonquar.

People loved the R+L=J reveal because it made sense. None of this stuff does, similar to how Lost failed. It's a problem with poor writing, not viewer expectations.

I think its a bit of both to be honest. I think fans (Including myself) look into things far to much and start to think **** this is whats gonna happen.

When in reality the writers the majority of the time never planned any of this.

There not without fault themselves because far to often tv shows and films fall flat in the end when clearly fans of the show seen the issues happening a mile away.

30-04-2019 12:06PM

nix wrote: »

Thats one thing they could have and should have explored more on this season and last, Bran can literally look into any moment in the past, they could have shown us more in regards to the Night kings creation and his motives going forward, just like they showed us how hodor came to be and how Jon was born and rescued.

The spin-off is about the first Long Night 8,000 years ago, apparently. Once that was decided, the showrunners were probably told to give no more backstory that could interfere with the new show.

Mokuba · 30-04-2019 12:07PM

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

I think its a bit of both to be honest. I think fans (Including myself) look into things far to much and start to think **** this is whats gonna happen.

When in reality the writers the majority of the time never planned any of this.

There not without fault themselves because far to often tv shows and films fall flat in the end when clearly fans of the show seen the issues happening a mile away.

George plans and pays off his theories and prophecies in clever and interesting ways. Dan and Dave don't.

It's why scenes like the leech burning by Melisandre to show the fall of the three false kings are so good. Originally written by George and paid off.

yourdeadwright · 30-04-2019 12:07PM

osarusan wrote: »

They can annihilate thousands of Dothraki on horseback in a matter of 30-45 seconds, but fighters such as Jaime and Brienne can survive alone against them for any length of time.

Am I being too picky? I don't think so obviously, but obviously some others will think so. The writers just asked me to accept some very unrealistic things in this episode, too many things.

This is an army of the dead so its all made up as you go along and far from normal ..............But if it was living v living the below would apply,

101 of war you do not charge directly into a larger army , (see battle of the Bastards along with real historic war's)

Many battles in History where smaller forces have survived while holding a castle against larger armies so not surprising people holding a castle survive and people who charge directly into the middle of a larger army do not in a general battle

Triceratops Ballet · 30-04-2019 12:08PM

nix wrote: »

Thats one thing they could have and should have explored more on this season and last, Bran can literally look into any moment in the past, they could have shown us more in regards to the Night kings creation and his motives going forward, just like they showed us how hodor came to be and how Jon was born and rescued.

I think the fact that they could have and didn't just shows us that the Night King wasn't the priority. We should have seen this coming, by virtue of the fact that they didn't even try to make us care about it. They just kept telling us this war was the big war but they never showed us why, the characters repeating over and over how dangerous the night king is just like them repeating over and over how safe the crypts are which also ultimately proved untrue

leggo · 30-04-2019 12:09PM

Mokuba wrote: »

He show is nothing like what it was when it had the books to follow. Sharp decline in quality as soon as they ran out of material, with the exception of a few admittedly good episodes in Season 6.

Season 5 and 7 and now this episode are absolutely terrible. Seasons where they were responsible for the plot and dialogue.

Season 5 was part of the books. Have you read them??

DrumSteve · 30-04-2019 12:10PM

Mitch Connor wrote: »

Happily ever after?

Cersai and the Golden Army vs pretty much no-one might have something to say about that.

I know she killed the night king, but I don't think she will take on a whole army.

nix · 30-04-2019 12:10PM

Deleted User wrote: »

The spin-off is about the first Long Night 8,000 years ago, apparently. Once that was decided, the showrunners were probably told to give no more backstory that could interfere with the new show.

Ah thats cool then, i didnt think they were gonna go that far back, i thought it was gonna be the prior generation years or when the Targaryens first came to power with their dragons.

Twenty Grand · 30-04-2019 12:11PM

[Deleted User] wrote: »

The spin-off is about the first Long Night 8,000 years ago, apparently. Once that was decided, the showrunners were probably told to give no more backstory that could interfere with the new show.

I don't really think so.

I don't know why people expect answers to everything.
Tolkien left so many loose threads it's unbelievable and no one asks why.

I also think people are forgetting this has built up since episode 1.
For anyone saying "the nk was defeated too easy in one big battle", I mean, have you forgotten every encounter since the first episode?
There's been half a dozen battles from Fist of the First Men to and all lost until now.

Dravokivich · 30-04-2019 12:11PM

Feisar wrote: »

Hmm it was pretty good however:

The Dothraki, that was silly but it did build the sense of foreboding so a pass in my book. Still, the believably of the tactics...

The darkness of the scenes was off-putting, I get what they were going for and maybe as someone said a OLED would make it look better.

The choppy "Bourne" style fighting was uninteresting.

The main characters slogging away against the horde while others died off was stretching it.

The ending was anti-climatic. The whole 3 Eyed Raven thing was sort of redundant. Arya just ninja'd it, why didn't she sneak into their camp and kill him if she was that good? No need for 100,000 to die!?!

IMHO they came up with a plan for the story line and made it fit even though it clearly wasn't working. Now that's just my opinion I'm no great critic or anything.

Why would the wights and white walkers have a camp?

Mokuba · 30-04-2019 12:12PM

leggo wrote: »

Season 5 was part of the books. Have you read them??

Which bit of the Dorne storyline was in the books? Which bit of the Sansa storyline was in the books. The two worst storylines of that whole season.

And I almost forgot the absolute butchering of Stannis character, not in the books.

How Soon Is Now · 30-04-2019 12:14PM

Mokuba wrote: »

George plans and pays off his theories and prophecies in clever and interesting ways. Dan and Dave don't.

It's why scenes like the leech burning by Melisandre to show the fall of the three false kings are so good. Originally written by George and paid off.

Thats the thing these guys seem happy to do things with this show that the original writer would never of done.

They seem happy to keep the general public type pleased instead of going the direction the show originally did.

For example as much as i hate the whole Arya thing i would of been fine with the idea of her somehow getting by everyone and appearing in front of the Night King ready to kill him if and only if he actually kills her!

That would of been an amazing moment if when he grabbed her by the throat she died in a spectacular fashion which would be even more of a surprise considering we all know Arya is not dying and she is well protected in this story.

Im not even saying The Night King needs to win there and then just dont give us this cheap cheesy ending more suited to a popcorn summer movie.

fash · 30-04-2019 12:17PM

yourdeadwright wrote: »

ITs been building since season 2 for Arya to be the one ,

Remember when she first meet the red witch in season 2 , the witch said " I see a darkness in you , You will close many eyes forever, Brown, BLUE and Green ,

Bran giving here the dagger that she used , her always playing and sneaking around winter fell as kid , there was a lot of foreshadowing ,

Retcon not foreshadowing: if that was the intention, Melisandre would not have burnt Shireen. Watch the "after show"- they clearly decided on Arya relatively recently.

30-04-2019 12:17PM

Twenty Grand wrote: »

I don't really think so.

I don't know why people expect answers to everything.

If we weren't supposed to get answers, we shouldn't have been shown the first NK being created, and shown the symbols on Dragonstone and the Umber kid also as a symbol.

Chekhov's Gun applies here. If it isn't meant to be part of the story, don't put it on stage. It cheats the viewers. Depth was given to the NK for no reason. Time was given to Bran for no reason. It's remarkable that you then question why we'd even expect an answer.

Lor11 · 30-04-2019 12:18PM

First time posting, please be nice

I think a lot of people who have posted are forgetting what this show is primarily about The Iron Throne, it's called Game of Thrones not The Long Night.
This episode was a great way to conclude the evil from the North, why anyone would want the NK to live for another episode is beyond me. As we saw when Jon was running through the court yard all the major characters were in trouble and could not sustain the attack much longer. up until the last few seconds of the battle there was no hope. The NK had Bran in he's grasp, Jon was facing up to a dead dragon (not sure what that was about) Dany and Jorah were in no man's land surrounded. I sure didn't want it to end that way.
Bran's role in this battle seems to be down played. He is like the chess master and had everyone where he wanted them including the NK. It's no coincidence that Bran has spent so much time in the same spot in the Godswood since returning to winter fell, the same spot where he gave ayra the dagger and the same spot where Ayra snuck up on Jon in S8ep1. Bran knew that she knew the God's wood like the back of her hand and plus all her training she was the perfect candidate to take down the NK. It was perfect for me.
I was surprised that some of the characters survived, mainly Davos, Gendry and Sam, the others at least have military training so it was just about feasible that they survived (just).
The major disappointment for me was again Jon. He is one of my favourite characters but my god, he turns into a moron when it comes to battles and again it's the women of GOT who save him when he's seconds from death. I'm not sure what he's role will be now that the NK is defeated which was he's sole purpose, I sense a lot more brooding ... All in all it was a great episode IMO

yourdeadwright · 30-04-2019 12:18PM

How Soon Is Now wrote: »

Thats the thing these guys seem happy to do things with this show that the original writer would never of done.

They seem happy to keep the general public type pleased instead of going the direction the show originally did.

For example as much as i hate the whole Arya thing i would of been fine with the idea of her somehow getting by everyone and appearing in front of the Night King ready to kill him if and only if he actually kills her!

That would of been an amazing moment if when he grabbed her by the throat she died in a spectacular fashion which would be even more of a surprise considering we all know Arya is not dying and she is well protected in this story.

Im not even saying The Night King needs to win there and then just dont give us this cheap cheesy ending more suited to a popcorn summer movie.

Its real nit-picking The original writer has spent how long writing the books ? How many years to go over each piece of dialogue before deciding if its right or wrong ?

He wil probably never even finish them , ,the people in charge of the tv show do not have this liberty ,

Why does anyone expect a tv show to be as well written as a series of books where it takes a decade for each book to be written ,

leggo · 30-04-2019 12:19PM

Mokuba wrote: »

Which bit of the Dorne storyline was in the books? Which bit of the Sansa storyline was in the books. The two worst storylines of that whole season.

Since you didn’t answer my question and assumed S5 was post-book (they’ve done scenes that aren’t in the source since S1, every adaptation does)...I’m gonna go with no you haven’t. So I’m guessing you’re likely not aware that the Sansa storyline in the book is an absolute shambles now and that re-integrating her into the main plot actually made a lot more sense than what GRRM had set up?

yourdeadwright · 30-04-2019 12:22PM

Deleted User wrote: »

If we weren't supposed to get answers, we shouldn't have been shown the first NK being created, and shown the symbols on Dragonstone and the Umber kid also as a symbol.

Chekhov's Gun applies here. If it isn't meant to be part of the story, don't put it on stage. It cheats the viewers. Depth was given to the NK for no reason. Time was given to Bran for no reason. It's remarkable that you then question why we'd even expect an answer.

The show isn't over we may still get the answer's

Feisar · 30-04-2019 12:23PM

Dravokivich wrote: »

Why would the wights and white walkers have a camp?

Fair point, so the Night King was impossible to locate prior to this. Bran drew him out, somehow.

"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forwa

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