"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forwa

jebidiah · 30-04-2019 09:39AM

The choke point argument was shown to not work in the episode. The dead would have just piled over the barrier. Like they did with the trench and the wall.

TheUnderfaker · 30-04-2019 09:40AM

I'm pretty annoyed that I've been conditioned to not care about what happens with the Iron Throne because the war against the Night King was supposedly all that mattered. Now that he's been taken care of in a few hours it looks like we're back to fighting for the Iron Throne, which the show itself has deemed to be trivial.

Mokuba · 30-04-2019 09:40AM

leggo wrote: »

What you’re describing here is removing the dramatic tension from a battle, since the only dramatic tension you can really get from a battle is based around characters dying.

THAT is terrible writing and makes for awful TV.

So you think there was tension the 8th time somebody survived at the last second, saved by a character that wasn't previously in the shot?

Brock Turnpike · 30-04-2019 09:40AM

This thread is a disgrace. Petty squabbling back and forth.

I watched the episode on Now TV by casting it to my TV. It was obvious from the start that it was very dark, so I paused it and turned up the brightness. Then I enjoyed the rest of the episode. The tension they built at the start and end of the episode - wow.

Only complaint was we didn't see more of Thormund

ThunbergsAreGo · 30-04-2019 09:41AM

leggo wrote: »

What you’re describing here is removing the dramatic tension from a battle, since the only dramatic tension you can really get from a battle is based around characters dying.

THAT is terrible writing and makes for awful TV.

To be fair most of the characters in those situations were never dying - John/Dany/Arya.

Mokuba · 30-04-2019 09:43AM

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

it's hardly teleporting we saw Arya in the great hall what 10-15 mins previous, you think it's inconceivable that she gets from essentially the dining room of her gaff to the back garden in 15 mins?

Past a castle full of wights, to an open space where the Night King was protected by a horde of Wights and White Walkers at all sides? The director had her emerge from the shadows at the same angle that the White Walkers were at. It was utterly ludicrous.

yourdeadwright · 30-04-2019 09:43AM

naughtb4 wrote: »

And thats the main problem, its not so much with the episode itself but with the entire thing. There has been no reasoning or motivation behind what they have done. They have the perfect plot device in Bran to do it - have a flashback showing why the Night King came to being and why he was so bent on getting to Bran. I was sully expecting one after the stabbing with him morphing into someone or a flashback showing who he was.

Sometimes the zombies walk slowly, sometimes they run, sometimes they attack in a frenzy, sometimes they kindly wait and fight our heroes one by one. Given how it ended, the white walkers just seem like a lazy "evil" plot device to give us big battles.

There's still 3 episodes left , im sure it will fall into place,

I think the White Walkers are used to for character building
For example in season one would have thought Jamie would leave his family to fight for the better good or that The Hound would care about anyone , or Theon would give his life for the Starks in the end,

RickBlaine · 30-04-2019 09:45AM

RickBlaine wrote: »

Ok I'll get one tomorrow. Very curious now to see if it will make a difference.

But I see in Twitter that people in the US who watched it on HBO had similar complaints but some didn't.

Very odd.

So I got a 5GB 1080p version of the episode (I believe the original source was Amazon) and there is a noticeable reduction of the darkness and murkiness I experienced while watching it on Sky Atlantic. The file has its own problems such as more colour banding but I think I would have been happier watching that than the Sky broadcast. It is easier to make out what was happening.

It isn't just Sky though. A lot of HBO viewers in the States were also complaining.

I know there is a massive pressure on the infrastructure for hugely popular shows like GoT but it is a bad state of affairs when an unofficial copy of the episode is better quality than the official broadcast through paid subscriptions.

Triceratops Ballet · 30-04-2019 09:46AM

naughtb4 wrote: »

And thats the main problem, its not so much with the episode itself but with the entire thing. There has been no reasoning or motivation behind what they have done. They have the perfect plot device in Bran to do it - have a flashback showing why the Night King came to being and why he was so bent on getting to Bran. I was sully expecting one after the stabbing with him morphing into someone or a flashback showing who he was.

Sometimes the zombies walk slowly, sometimes they run, sometimes they attack in a frenzy, sometimes they kindly wait and fight our heroes one by one. Given how it ended, the white walkers just seem like a lazy "evil" plot device to give us big battles.

I agree, I think they're a poor "evil" for the show, I can't see the rationale in having them as a major plot point at all. I think the show would have been as interesting without them. I cared about them when they were a sporadic horror device, leaving the dead bodies re-animating corpses etc. but the decision to turn them into an army and try and make them a major plot point was a mistake imo. I haven't legitimately cared about their overall story at all except when the show forced me to by putting my fave characters in danger. Which could easily have been accomplished with the more rounded human evil characters

robbiezero · 30-04-2019 09:46AM

leggo wrote: »

Yep. And her training with Brienne giving us a teaser of the killshot last season too.
Jon and Dany ARE the song of ice and fire

Sansa is likely going to lead Winterfell

Tyrion is likely going to be the Hand, or pivotal in whatever arrangement they come up with at the end.

Jaime will likely end up killing Cersei.

Of the main characters...what was Arya's payoff? It was this. And it was always going to be this way, this is what she's been training for, but nobody put the pieces together. I initially jumped around the room when he died, then was iffy and felt it was a bit random, then started to put together the foreshadowing and I love it more the more I think about it now. Brilliant.

Literally??

Bacchus · 30-04-2019 09:46AM

Dempsey wrote: »

Jon thought they could hold back the dragons until they saw the NK/WW were drawn out by Bran but Dany wouldnt wait because the Dothraki were overwhelmed so easily. It shows that whatever battle plan they had, was very quickly out the window. Hence the exchange

Yeah, I get that that was the plan (to hold off.. which in itself was stupid to hold back the best option you have of destroying the dead army) and Dany wanted to rush in but the actual exchange they had... both stating the bleeding obvious. This is what they were planning for... the Night King coming and the dead being there. It was a terrible piece of writing IMO.

yourdeadwright · 30-04-2019 09:47AM

Mokuba wrote: »

Past a castle full of wights, to an open space where the Night King was protected by a horde of Wights and White Walkers at all sides? The director had her emerge from the shadows at the same angle that the White Walkers were at. It was utterly ludicrous.

The shot before was the wind blowing one of the White walkers hair obviously Arya passing at speed ,

I kind of like the fact that in the end the NK was killed quite easy it's a throw back to early GOT where any character could die at any given moment

Keyzer · 30-04-2019 09:47AM

Watched it last night, haven't gone through this thread forensically so what I say might have been said a thousand times already. The episode was a decent episode - from an action and visuals perspective, I can't fault it. I loved the first ten mins, building up tension.

My biggest gripe - the NK death. IMO poor writing. Very poor.

This has been building since the first episode and he's gone, just like that. I get Arya is a trained & skilled assassin, her whole arc built up to it. But how, in the name of Satan, did she get that close to the NK without him, his long haired lieutenants and a load of wights not noticing?
No chance. Remember, the NK sensed (or at least it appeared that way) that Jon was coming for him, he raised the dead to prevent him from getting closer.

Its disappointing such a massive story line ended this way.

nix · 30-04-2019 09:49AM

Dempsey wrote: »

Jon thought they could hold back the dragons until they saw the NK/WW were drawn out by Bran but Dany wouldnt wait because the Dothraki were overwhelmed so easily. It shows that whatever battle plan they had, was very quickly out the window. Hence the exchange

Yeah when i first watched it i pawned it off to just terrible cliched writing, they have been doing it a lot since the beginning of season 7.. "And so it begins" stuff like that come to mind.

But on my second viewing of it last night (i wanted to watch it in the best quality possible, and while it did improve a lot, it didnt clear up a lot of the "too dark to see" issues i had)

Anyway back to the comment regarding the Dany/Jon exchange, apart from it being terrible writing, it was delivered with literally no emotion, like they were just fed the line for the first time and told to say it, as if reading from a que card and then told where to walk immediately for the cut scene.

Outside of the crypt, there is next to no dialogue for the entire episode, its as if they were afraid to give people things to say or show any emotion when you look back over it.

That Dany/Jon exchange should have at the very least, been a conversation :pac:

razorblunt · 30-04-2019 09:49AM

Mokuba wrote: »

So you think there was tension the 8th time somebody survived at the last second, saved by a character that wasn't previously in the shot?

To be fair it happened to Jaime once, Brienne saved him and then that was reversed. I think that's fine as one maybe both will die over the next 3 episodes.

Sam was saved once by Edd, was there a second time? He was swarmed within Winterfell and even Jon left him, that's the one that annoys me the most, he was done for there with the Night King not killed for ~ 10 minutes.

What other ones did I miss?

Bacchus · 30-04-2019 09:50AM

Keyzer wrote: »

No chance. Remember, the NK sensed (or at least it appeared that way) that Jon was coming for him, he raised the dead to prevent him from getting closer.

I think he just heard Jon running after him TBH.

Also, the NK did turn and catch Arya mid-air. He 'had her' until her little switcheroo.

Triceratops Ballet · 30-04-2019 09:50AM

Mokuba wrote: »

Past a castle full of wights, to an open space where the Night King was protected by a horde of Wights and White Walkers at all sides? The director had her emerge from the shadows at the same angle that the White Walkers were at. It was utterly ludicrous.

Arya didn't accomplish anything in this episode that we haven't seen her do before. Everything she did was actually earned. The episode was flawed, majorly so in some spots. I don't think any of the Arya stuff was part of that

Sittingpretty · 30-04-2019 09:52AM

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

This thread is a disgrace. Petty squabbling back and forth.

I watched the episode on Now TV by casting it to my TV. It was obvious from the start that it was very dark, so I paused it and turned up the brightness. Then I enjoyed the rest of the episode. The tension they built at the start and end of the episode - wow.

Only complaint was we didn't see more of Thormund

Exactly 67 pages of probable accountants with too much time on their hands bitching and squabbling about how they could’ve done a better job of writing, filming, lighting, score, story telling.

Jesus lads dismount the high horses or maybe forward the CVs to GoT to save the next three episodes (which you will all be glued to) with your own brilliance

De Bhál · 30-04-2019 09:58AM

Loved it, great TV. Ludicrous at times but wonderful

podgemonster · 30-04-2019 09:59AM

Mokuba wrote: »

Why does he want to destroy men?

Is it because he is a villain? Is it too much to expect some depth given to the villains of the show? Even Marvel gave Thanos some bloody motivation. They wrote the Night King into generic bad guy villain.

As for him being lured into a vulnerable place, it certainly didn't seem vulnerable when he was protected by a horde of white walkers and wights, but clearly he didn't account for any invincible teleporting badasses in attendance.

The Children of the Forest created them in revenge for the realms of men taking their land and lost control the WW.The NK is a straight forward 1-dimesional big bad guy, seeking to destroy the realms of men. He is essentially death, Not gold, not power, not love, not revenge, not birth right is his motivations, he's not playing the Game of Thrones. He's moving down south like the blue tiles of the opening credits and destroys all in his wake. To have him speak would diminish his threat.

The fleshing out of "villains" is left to every other major adversarial characters who are often so complex that to call them "villains" is doing their characters a disservice as many given their situation are doing what they believe is right.

yourdeadwright · 30-04-2019 10:02AM

Keyzer wrote: »

Watched it last night, haven't gone through this thread forensically so what I say might have been said a thousand times already. The episode was a decent episode - from an action and visuals perspective, I can't fault it. I loved the first ten mins, building up tension.

My biggest gripe - the NK death. IMO poor writing. Very poor.

This has been building since the first episode and he's gone, just like that. I get Arya is a trained & skilled assassin, her whole arc built up to it. But how, in the name of Satan, did she get that close to the NK without him, his long haired lieutenants and a load of wights not noticing?
No chance. Remember, the NK sensed (or at least it appeared that way) that Jon was coming for him, he raised the dead to prevent him from getting closer.

Its disappointing such a massive story line ended this way.

I'd imagine himself and Bran where having one of there connection moments and that why he didn't sense Arya, the Jon moment he was walking by himself and not concentrating on anything ,

I thought it was a GOT throw back to any character can die at any give moment,

expectationlost · 30-04-2019 10:03AM

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

Arya didn't accomplish anything in this episode that we haven't seen her do before. Everything she did was actually earned. The episode was flawed, majorly so in some spots. I don't think any of the Arya stuff was part of that

but the nightking stuff was

Lackey · 30-04-2019 10:07AM

I think it’s odd that some people who are saying ‘more main characters should have died’
‘It was all too Disney’

Then in the next breath saying ‘Jon snow was robbed of the kill, there should have been a fight scene between him and NK’

to give our hero that ‘pay off’ for his efforts in the last few seasons, now THAT would have been Disney.
To get him through the battle to the Forrest in the nick of time: Disney.
His storyline has been about defeating the dead and the NK and Instead he was denied that payoff, in true GOT style.

I remember the episodes of Aryas training, they went on a while

not like her kill came from nowhere.

If everyone dies who will fight for the throne?

People saying the NK is dead...’just like that it’s over’
Aside from too many to mention,
Ned Stark, Joffrey...even Littlefinger who started all of this is now dead ‘just like that’
In typical GOT style

Also didn’t think Lyanna death was Disney at all!!
A little girl had her bones crushed to death she ran at the giant knowing she was the last of her house...I was in bits watching that!! And was glad she at least got to take the giant down with her.
Not out of character for Her at all.

RIP Theon, what is dead May never die.

Triceratops Ballet · 30-04-2019 10:08AM

expectationlost wrote: »

but the nightking stuff was

which part?

dmn22 · 30-04-2019 10:16AM

Anyone else delighted Lyanna Mormont is dead? Couldn't stick her.

Very happy Jaime, Brienne, and Tormund still alive.

RollieFingers · 30-04-2019 10:17AM

Mokuba wrote: »

To try and boil down legitimate criticisms into a horsesh*t claim like this is truly embarrassing.

There have been some mind-blowingly idiotic takes in this thread so far but you have just beaten them all by miles.

It's embarrassing, calling people weirdos because they have a different opinion. I enjoy reading all the opinions on here, imagine taking a TV show that seriously.

kowloon · 30-04-2019 10:18AM

ush · 30-04-2019 10:20AM

Mokuba wrote: »

It was utterly ludicrous.

Wait until you see the zombie blue fire breathing dragon.

Tilikum17 · 30-04-2019 10:23AM

one man clappin wrote: »

I enjoyed the episode but cant help but feel a small bit cheated the way the battle took place. I would have liked to see one or two of the White Walkers being fought by some of the main characters and being killed.
Also I have a terrible feeling that Varys will have a huge part to play in this yet. He is the one that is really playing the Game of Thrones.

They should of had Arya fight a white walker, then the next scene have the nk approach bran with a white walker either side of him. Just before he kills bran, Arya disguised as a white walker kills stabs him in the chest. Better than having her jump out of mid air.

expectationlost · 30-04-2019 10:24AM

Triceratops Ballet wrote: »

which part?

that he was killed so abruptly and it *seems* to be the end of him...

"Non book readers" - Season 8 Episode 3 "The Long Night" - Spoilers post 2 forwa

Comments