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Cycle Lanes in Phoenix Park

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Comments

  • #212
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,128 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    I've often wondered why car traffic was never diverted from Chesterfield Ave to North Road perimeter route instead. I'm sure there is a reason. A new entrance to the Zoo car parks could be made from North Road if the will was there.

    Then ban cars and parking on Ch/Ave altogether and just allow pedestrians, cyclists, and the hop on hop off buses. Sounds too simple I suppose but would be great!

    Anything can be done if the vision (and the money) is there really. It is a fantastic amenity Ch/Ave is just choking with cars who are commuting or parked.


  • #213
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    buffalo wrote: »
    Bloom is a recurring event and therefore not an exception, and is an interesting aspect as to how the OPW views the Park and how it should be used.

    Yes, but in the daily and weekly use of the park it's an exceptional event in terms of the numbers and traffic it brings.


  • #214
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,025 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Hurrache wrote: »
    And how do I get there and park with a car load of kids, their bikes and bags, and dogs? It's just adding unreasonable hurdles to using it. For all that hassle I'd just drive to Marlay Park, Malahide Castle or Ardgillan Castle, adding a bit more to my carbon footprint.

    Any business will then be taking from what is pretty much my local area and spent elsewhere.

    Take public transport. Chose to drive elsewhere if you like, it is a very special park and shouldn't be stuffed with cars.


  • #215
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    cgcsb wrote: »
    Take public transport. Chose to drive elsewhere if you like, it is a very special park and shouldn't be stuffed with cars.

    Not sure how familiar you are with public transport in Ireland, but it can't be done by public transport.

    And even if I was to do on my own, I couldn't get there by public transport without going into the city centre and back out again, despite it being 10 minutes or so away by car.

    And be realistic, it's not stuffed with cars.


  • #216
    Chips Lovell
    Moderators, Politics Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 24,276 Mod ✭✭✭✭Chips Lovell


    For me, parked cars aren't really the problem. It's the traffic. And it's not so much the traffic, but people driving like c**ks, without appreciating that it's first and foremost a leisure amenity, not another N-Road.


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  • #217
    LollipopJimmy
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,244 ✭✭✭LollipopJimmy


    I cycled through the park on Saturday, I came alongside another cyclist in the cycle lane and asked him to race me to the next lampost, he just beat me but I reckon him having stabilisers helped him get the power down.

    Anyway, the cycle lanes along Chesterfield Avenue are no place to go chasing KOMs, it's just too busy with too many people around. I use these lanes quite a bit and tbh I just slow down and take in the scenery


  • #218
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Chips Lovell wrote: »
    For me, parked cars aren't really the problem. It's the traffic. And it's not so much the traffic, but people driving like c**ks, without appreciating that it's first and foremost a leisure amenity, not another N-Road.

    Exactly, it's the through traffic and speeding that's the problem. People in a rush to get to and from work, or in a rush to bag the parking at the Parkgate Street end. Go away from Chesterfield Avenue, or even the middle section of the avenue, there's no issue.


  • #219
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,025 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Hurrache wrote: »
    Not sure how familiar you are with public transport in Ireland, but it can't be done by public transport.

    As I posted 2 bus routes, one circling the inside of the park and the other going from Heuston to Castleknock would effectively cover the Park.


  • #220
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    buffalo wrote: »
    You've never been to the Park during Bloom so.

    Bloom is nothing to do with this discussion. They create temp car parks, close off roads to traffic and you can't cycle due to the large volumes of pedestrians.


  • #221
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    cgcsb wrote: »
    As I posted 2 bus routes, one circling the inside of the park and the other going from Heuston to Castleknock would effectively cover the Park.

    All of D15 isn't going to walk to Castleknock to get a bus. Its too big an area.


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  • #222
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Tombo2001 wrote: »
    ...I've never really thought to myself - this place would be way better if there werent so many parked cars....

    Same here.


  • #223
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    cgcsb wrote: »
    As I posted 2 bus routes, one circling the inside of the park and the other going from Heuston to Castleknock would effectively cover the Park.

    The question I asked is how do you get to those routes you propose.


  • #224
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,756 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    papu wrote: »
    Bought a new bike, went for a spin up and down chesterfield avenue today on the "Bike Lane". Pedestrians every 100m, whole families, buggies, kids. Asking them to move to the pedestrian lane I was told to "Get over myself" "f** off" etc. etc. one lady even told me to use the "bike lane!:rolleyes:".

    I would have thought the signs on the bike path are fairly self explanatory, do they need to put up more explicit signage? How do other people get on? Is this what it's like every weekend??:(

    design problem... why is the footpath inside the barrier with no obvious means of access beyond walking across the grass and hurdling the barrier? Footpaths by convention tend to be beside the road.


  • #225
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    lawred2 wrote: »
    design problem... why is the footpath inside the barrier with no obvious means of access beyond walking across the grass? Footpaths by convention tend to be beside the road.

    It's safer for families and animals with it being on the inside. Having it on the outside essentially puts you between two lanes of moving traffic and forms an artificial barrier to the rest of the park.

    Cycle lanes by convention tend to be the ones alongside the road, not the footpaths.


  • #226
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    RayCun wrote: »
    That isn't cutting off though, it would still be accessible by car.

    'for access' implies no through traffic

    Chesterfield <-> Parkgate will always be kept open for zoo, Aras, embassy, and car park at the cross.
    Chesterfield to North Road, Ordnance Survey as far as Farmleigh, the road to the visitor centre, and North Road to North Circular could be kept open for some through traffic and access to the amenities in the zoo, but would stop the park being used as a main road and car park.

    Isn't that bascially and obital route intose the walls like I suggested.

    No sense leaving Chesterfield <-> Parkgate open. All those other locations have access to other roads. Even the hospitals. if they hadn't some of the the exits one way, forcing people to spend more time driving around the park than they previously had to.

    Leaving Chesterfield <-> Parkgate open seems to facilitate those coming from the city centre and discommoding all the locals who are the main users of the park.


  • #227
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,128 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    lawred2 wrote: »
    design problem... why is the footpath inside the barrier with no obvious means of access beyond walking across the grass and hurdling the barrier? Footpaths by convention tend to be beside the road.

    Agree completely. Pedestrians expect their footpaths to be nearest the road.

    No wonder there is so much confusion between peds and cyclists. Should just swap them around now. Easy enough to do.


  • #228
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,756 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Hurrache wrote: »
    It's safer for families and animals with it being on the inside. Having it on the outside essentially puts you between two lanes of moving traffic and forms an artificial barrier to the rest of the park.

    I'm sure it makes sense from certain perspectives but in practice (which is the truest test) it doesn't really work...

    Hardly anyone who isn't familiar with the Park will know to cross the grass and step over a barrier to use a walkway. It's nonsense really. And it's even dafter when one considers those with buggies/wheelchairs etc


  • #229
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Agree completely. Pedestrians expect their footpaths to be nearest the road.

    No wonder there is so much confusion between peds and cyclists. Should just swap them around now. Easy enough to do.

    It's been debated over and over, probably on this very thread. Makes no sense in terms of usability and safety to swap them.


  • #230
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    lawred2 wrote: »
    design problem... why is the footpath inside the barrier with no obvious means of access beyond walking across the grass and hurdling the barrier? Footpaths by convention tend to be beside the road.

    Only if your parking on the road. Remove parking, replace with cycle lane. Let the pedestrians keep the paths.


  • #231
    RayCun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Sorry, I meant Chesterfield <> Phoenix Park monument

    access to the zoo, Aras, visitor centre, but not to Castleknock

    orbital route around North road for through traffic


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  • #232
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,756 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    beauf wrote: »
    Only if your parking on the road. Remove parking, replace with cycle lane. Let the pedestrians keep the paths.

    well that's certainly a very valid idea... Would probably need to significantly extend the existing parking in the park though? Would you agree?


  • #233
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,025 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    beauf wrote: »
    All of D15 isn't going to walk to Castlknock to get a bus. Its too big an area.

    You make it sound like there is no public transport at all outside the park.


  • #234
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    lawred2 wrote: »
    I'm sure it makes sense from certain perspectives but in practice (which is the truest test) it doesn't really work...

    Hardly anyone who isn't familiar with the Park will know to cross the grass and step over a barrier to use a walkway. It's nonsense really. And it's even dafter when one considers those with buggies/wheelchairs etc

    Works at peak when cycling to work.

    Doesn't work off peak when people are out walking and jogging. Then weight of numbers over rides any rules.


  • #235
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,025 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Hurrache wrote: »
    The question I asked is how do you get to those routes you propose.

    By public transport, walking or cycling


  • #236
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,756 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    Hurrache wrote: »
    It's been debated over and over, probably on this very thread. Makes no sense in terms of usability and safety to swap them.

    the current configuration doesn't make much practical sense either..

    so everyone loses


  • #237
    Spanish Eyes
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,128 ✭✭✭✭Spanish Eyes


    Hurrache wrote: »
    It's been debated over and over, probably on this very thread. Makes no sense in terms of usability and safety to swap them.

    Why?

    I am very used to walking in the Pheeno, but with headphones in and off in a dream I very often start in the cycle lane because it is innate, that is where I expect the pedestrian footpath to be!


  • #238
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    lawred2 wrote: »
    well that's certainly a very valid idea... Would probably need to significantly extend the existing parking in the park though? Would you agree?

    Not if you don't want cars in the park. No parking, no cars.


  • #239
    beauf
    Closed Accounts Posts: 22,648 ✭✭✭✭beauf


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    Why?

    I am very used to walking in the Pheeno, but with headphones in and off in a dream I very often start in the cycle lane because it is innate, that is where I expect the pedestrian footpath to be!

    You're going to have to get used to the idea of cycle lanes and checking for them.
    Park or anywhere.


  • #240
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,381 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    cgcsb wrote: »
    You make it sound like there is no public transport at all outside the park.
    cgcsb wrote: »
    By public transport, walking or cycling

    So like I asked, how does it work in the scenario I proposed to you? I'll loan you the bikes, kids and dogs if you need to try it.


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  • #241
    lawred2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 24,756 ✭✭✭✭lawred2


    beauf wrote: »
    Not if you don't want cars in the park. No parking, no cars.

    right...

    So the park becomes an amenity for those that live in Castleknock and Parkgate Street?

    What about everyone else?


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