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Public/Private worker gap to grow

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    #92
    Twenty Grand
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,452 ✭✭✭Twenty Grand


    salonfire wrote: »
    If everyone who wants a job in the public sector can get one, why is there panels?

    Who said that?
    If you want a job in the public sector then work towards one.
    No one said anyone is guaranteed a job.


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    #93
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    n97 mini wrote: »
    I think the OP made the point (badly) that the private sector fund the public sector. One is profitable, the other is not. And therefore it's unfair that (paid from the tax take) the public sector are being extended benefits that the private sector (paid from the tax take) are not. He/she is not suggesting that private sector employers pay for parental leave, but that private sector employees get the same benefits (paid from the tax take) from the system.

    Not an unreasonable argument to me, just a point badly made.

    its a ridiculous argument, badly made

    the whole point of public sector is that it provides services the private sector wont or cant

    its paid for out of taxation, not "by the private sector" ffs.

    unless you want to show your workings offsetting taxes paid by public sector workers and the investment in the private sector arising from government spending, then frankly a statement like the above merely marks you out as someone who thought as far as the first soft point any teenager would reach and then sat back delighted with themselves. congrats.


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    #94
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,596 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    salonfire wrote: »
    That's a great idea.

    That's what we should be doing ourselves if it saves us a bit of cash.

    You might want to check how it's working out for the UK before rushing down the road. I'm reminded of the man who knew the price of everything and the value of nothing.
    https://www.rte.ie/news/education/2018/0123/935501-school-buildings-construction-carillion/


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    #95
    janfebmar
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Deleted User wrote: »
    its paid for out of taxation, not "by the private sector" ffs.
    .

    The private sector collect the taxes and pays the government these taxes. The government then pays the public sector.


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    #96
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,596 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    n97 mini wrote: »
    I think the OP made the point (badly) that the private sector fund the public sector. One is profitable, the other is not. And therefore it's unfair that (paid from the tax take) the public sector are being extended benefits that the private sector (paid from the tax take) are not. He/she is not suggesting that private sector employers pay for parental leave, but that private sector employees get the same benefits (paid from the tax take) from the system.

    Not an unreasonable argument to me, just a point badly made.

    It's not so much an unreasonable point as a silly point. It assumes that all state income comes from income tax. This is a very false assumption.


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    #97
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,596 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    salonfire wrote: »
    And there's plenty of nurses in India and the Philiphines who are willing to come here. Surely nursing unions should be out in those countries encouraging them to come to Ireland where pay and conditions are better than India.
    Swings and roundabouts.

    It's not the role of trade unions to run recruitment campaigns for staff. It is particularly not the role of trade unions to strip developing countries of essential staff - completely unethical.


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    #98
    AndrewJRenko
    Registered Users Posts: 28,596 ✭✭✭✭AndrewJRenko


    blanch152 wrote: »
    Headline salaries forget about the 6.5% compulsory pension contributions, and the extra 10% pension contribution on any decent salary.

    Effectively, any decent public servant is paying an extra 16.5% in pension contributions comparable to a similar private sector employee.

    Weekly wage comparisons also omit health benefits, disability benefits, stock awards and stock options, nights out and other benefits.


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    #99
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 17,728 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    Unfortunately we don't live in a society of equal opportunities, some will always have poorer opportunities of employment and pay

    Generally the someones are lacking in intellect, work ethic or motivation..... Quite often all 3.....


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    #100
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    janfebmar wrote: »
    The private sector collect the taxes and pays the government these taxes. The government then pays the public sector.

    the public sector collects the taxes.

    the government itself and public sector workers as a group are an enormous input into consumer spending.

    start there why dont you.


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    #101
    TCM
    Registered Users Posts: 736 ✭✭✭TCM


    salonfire wrote:
    We should be extremely grateful those lowest paid slaves working picking spuds off the ground for example aren't all out on strike starving the rest of us out of it. They are the real heroes in modern society.


    Oh, the poor mouth leftie.


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    #102
    Hedgelayer
    Registered Users Posts: 530 ✭✭✭Hedgelayer


    That's great news for the public sector, they're low paid and sure we all can apply for public sector jobs.

    I had no relations or friends in the public sector, I did the aptitude tests and interview, got the job.

    Started on the lowest incremental scale and worked my way up over the last 20 years...

    I work in the environment section, started off raking leaves, planting roundabouts, potting on plants and planting trees, sometimes in the pissing rain, snow, frost and gale's...

    Still doing it the odd time but on way more money and a senior position, planning and managing Green areas and parklands...

    Unfortunately I can't get pregnant im a dude lol


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    #103
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,949 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Augeo wrote:
    Generally the someones are lacking in intellect, work ethic or motivation..... Quite often all 3.....


    And sometimes people are just ignorant of facts, and sprout all sorts of nonsense. It's well known, and well documented that people that come from affluent areas have generally better employment opportunities and overall standard of living for the entirety of their lives, compared to those that don't.

    There's also plenty of evidence to support that we are now potentially the most productive we ve ever been as a race, but we have rapidly growing inequality, i.e. the wealth created from our employment activities isn't being distributed very well.

    Oh and intellect hasn't been preserved just for the affluent, many of these individuals were in fact born into wealth, the asset owning classes coming to mind


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    #104
    listermint
    Registered Users Posts: 33,789 ✭✭✭✭listermint


    janfebmar wrote: »
    The private sector collect the taxes and pays the government these taxes. The government then pays the public sector.

    And you then get services.

    It's a collective society otherwise it would be pretty crap here in Ireland , have you ever visited a country without a functioning civil sector.


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    #105
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    More than willing? Do you think any nurse or teacher or paramedic wants to spend their days walking up and down outside in the pi$$ings of rain with no pay instead of doing their paid job inside? Strikes are a last resort.

    And yes, if you need the nurse or the paramedic when you're on strike, you do still call them - because they always continue to provide emergency service during strikes.

    Maybe we should be encouraging the lowest paid slaves to organise and unionise so they can make sure they get decent working conditions instead?


    Yes, that's the gap all right - the gap between jobs that require three or four years of college, supervised work placement, regulated continuous professional development and the risk of going to prison if you screw up and jobs that can be done by a 17 year old between 5th year and 6th year.

    Why would you expect the wages of unqualified roles and roles that require professional qualifications to be the same?

    When has anyone in the public sector ever been stripped of their pension, never mind sent to prison for " screwing up"?

    How well public sector workers are paid is largely down to politics, not level of education, plenty of people well educated in the private sector but one big single block carries more influence with politicians


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    #106
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    backspin. wrote: »
    I wouldn't trust anything the indo has to say about the public sector they have been slandering them for years.

    Well console yourself in the fact that you have RTE to defend public sector honour every day of the week.


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    #107
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    salonfire wrote: »
    Not factually incorrect though.

    Without the Independent, we'd all be thinking the local Garda is earning just €23,000 per year.

    Luckily the Independent did some research of the actual figures and found that with allowances it was significantly more.

    Basic pay when it comes to guards is meaningless to a unique degree, even guards who own a house get an accommodation allowance, they even get boot polish allowance

    A guard five minutes out of templemore is on no less than 33k per year when all is added up

    Had several relatives in the guards throughout different generations of my family

    Very well paid and always were


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    #108
    Galwayguy35
    Registered Users Posts: 16,381 ✭✭✭✭Galwayguy35


    AndrewJRenko wrote: »
    It's not the role of trade unions to run recruitment campaigns for staff. It is particularly not the role of trade unions to strip developing countries of essential staff - completely unethical.

    The Government should do it though, it's a win win situation because people from India and The Phillipines would be coming to work in well paid jobs compared to their own countries and there would be no more whinging from the unions about staff shortages.


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    #109
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Twenty Grand wrote: »
    Do we?

    I know plenty of nurses. Hours are sh*t, pay is sh*t, conditions are sh*t and most of their colleagues are emigrating for better treatment.

    Average nurse is on nearly 60 k per annum


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    #110
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    salonfire wrote: »
    I wasn't blaming the public sector for low pay in the private sector.

    I'm more than thankful there is low pay in the private sector if it means I can get a basket load of stuff for a tenner in Dealz.

    But at the same time I acknowledge there are those who are in a crap position. They are far more honest and hard-working than their better paid compatriots

    Not that we hear much about it, our media is filled with the public sector whinging how hard they have it and reminding us how thankful we should be for their ****ty service they decide they feel like doing at any point in time.

    Yes indeed, rte portray public sector strife as a far greater national crisis than if any number of small businesses close, in the mind of RTE, working for the state is inherently more honourable, the market is inherently machivelian


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    #111
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    And sometimes people are just ignorant of facts, and sprout all sorts of nonsense. It's well known, and well documented that people that come from affluent areas have generally better employment opportunities and overall standard of living for the entirety of their lives, compared to those that don't.

    There's also plenty of evidence to support that we are now potentially the most productive we ve ever been as a race, but we have rapidly growing inequality, i.e. the wealth created from our employment activities isn't being distributed very well.

    Oh and intellect hasn't been preserved just for the affluent, many of these individuals were in fact born into wealth, the asset owning classes coming to mind

    Most of those conclusions originate from ideological predispositions


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    #112
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    Average nurse is on nearly 60 k per annum

    If the public sector is so well paid, why aren't you in there paying a marginal tax rate of 60% back to the state?

    Oh, and this is obviously only a minor factual point but 'The average pay for a Registered Nurse (RN) is €31,277 per year.'


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    #113
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    When has anyone in the public sector ever been stripped of their pension, never mind sent to prison for " screwing up"?

    Yes, those great private sector employees Michael Fingleton & Seán Fitzpatrick being shining examples of how the private sector are so much tougher on the pensions and the screw ups of their employees...

    Desist with the obtuse and ignorant arguments, please.


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    #114
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Deleted User wrote: »
    If the public sector is so well paid, why aren't you in there paying a marginal tax rate of 60% back to the state?

    Oh, and this is obviously only a minor factual point but 'The average pay for a Registered Nurse (RN) is €31,277 per year.'


    If you believe that the average nurse income per annum is 31k per year, your the kind I want to do business with


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    #115
    Wanderer78
    Registered Users Posts: 28,949 ✭✭✭✭Wanderer78


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    Most of those conclusions originate from ideological predispositions

    largely fact based actually


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    #116
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Deleted User wrote: »
    Yes, those great private sector employees Michael Fingleton & Seán Fitzpatrick being shining examples of how the private sector are so much tougher on the pensions and the screw ups of their employees...

    Desist with the obtuse and ignorant arguments, please.

    Last line is irony defined

    As if fingers was typical of a private sector worker


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    #117
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    If you believe that the average nurse income per annum is 31k per year, your the kind I want to do business with

    You're. You still haven't produced evidence for your own fantastical "average" for nurses but never let facts get in the way of a good rant.


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    #118
    Moghead
    Registered Users Posts: 353 ✭✭Moghead


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    If you believe that the average nurse income per annum is 31k per year, your the kind I want to do business with

    Where are you getting the average nursing wage of €60K a year from?


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    #119
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Wanderer78 wrote: »
    largely fact based actually

    What stops anyone from going to school, building trade is crying out for staff, if a barely able to speak English Lithuanian can mix concrete, why can't someone from moyross?

    The reason is that they don't want to work as welfare is too generous


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    #120
    Mad_maxx
    Registered Users Posts: 13,505 ✭✭✭✭Mad_maxx


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You're. You still haven't produced evidence for your own fantastical "average" for nurses but never let facts get in the way of a good rant.

    Nothing " fantastical" about it

    I'm not the one engaging in hyperbole here with chat of rogue senior bankers being a fair private sector worker example


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    #121
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    Last line is irony defined

    As if fingers was typical of a private sector worker

    Hmmm. So, suddenly you were talking about "typical" when you said this:
    Mad_maxx wrote: »
    When has anyonein the public sector ever been stripped of their pension, never mind sent to prison for " screwing up"?

    As has been said, please desist from the decidedly thick arguments.


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