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Fire at Notre Dame Cathedral in Paris

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    #842
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,338 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    o1s1n wrote: »
    Sounds almost like it's written by a Nigerian prince.

    That fcuker still owes me my half of the money. I was going to use it to pay homeless people to burn down the GPO again.


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    #843
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Some photos showing extent of damage

    A before and after shot

    notre-dame-fire6a-before-after-gty-ml-190416_hpEmbed_3x4_1600.jpg

    Quite incredible that the candles near the alter and on the pillars survived the heat of the fire (zoom in to see detail)

    notre-dame-fire7-rt-ml-190416_hpMain_16x9_992.jpg

    Additional:

    france-notre-dame-fire-69616-ef65224b.jpg

    Click to zoom
    2yyqmh.jpg


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    #844
    Atoms for Peace
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,888 ✭✭✭Atoms for Peace


    Fastidious wrote: »
    Seems like an awful lot for a building and why should Irish taxpayers be footing the bill. Meanwhile children are starving in Africa..scandalous

    Africa is a bottomless pit of human misery and corruption, at this stage it's a case of throwing good money after bad. At least with rebuilding ND you'll see a return on the spending.


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    #845
    wexandproud
    Registered Users Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭wexandproud


    Fastidious wrote: »
    Seems like an awful lot for a building and why should Irish taxpayers be footing the bill. Meanwhile children are starving in Africa..scandalous
    Back when i was in primary school 40 odd years ago the nuns were collecting for the starving '' black babies '' in Africa , every where you went there were boxes with the logo '''pennies for black babies '' . Now 40 odd years later and billions of euro later there are still people starving in Africa , which is a terrible thing to be happening , but all over the world their are tragedy's and disaster's some of which will not be solved no matter how much money is thrown at them
    At least with funds in place ND will be rebuilt , thankfully , and millions of people of all races and creeds can enjoy it for what it is , a beautiful historic building .
    13 million people a year cant be wrong


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    #846
    4ensic15
    Banned (with Prison Access) Posts: 4,691 ✭✭✭4ensic15


    wexandproud wrote: »
    Back when i was in primary school 40 odd years ago the nuns were collecting for the starving '' black babies '' in Africa , every where you went there were boxes with the logo '''pennies for black babies '' . Now 40 odd years later and billions of euro later there are still people starving in Africa , which is a terrible thing to be happening , but all over the world their are tragedy's and disaster's some of which will not be solved no matter how much money is thrown at them
    At least with funds in place ND will be rebuilt , thankfully , and millions of people of all races and creeds can enjoy it for what it is , a beautiful historic building .
    13 million people a year cant be wrong

    Are you saying the nuns would have been better to collect for fire extinguishers for the Notre Dame?


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    #847
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    wexandproud wrote: »
    13 million people a year cant be wrong

    People like Cold Play and voted for the Nazis.


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    #848
    Force Carrier
    Closed Accounts Posts: 594 ✭✭✭Force Carrier


    4ensic15 wrote: »
    Are you saying the nuns would have been better to collect for fire extinguishers for the Notre Dame?

    Some for that and some for contraception for the black mammies and daddies.


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    #849
    10000maniacs
    Registered Users Posts: 4,815 ✭✭✭10000maniacs


    wexandproud wrote: »
    Back when i was in primary school 40 odd years ago the nuns were collecting for the starving '' black babies '' in Africa , every where you went there were boxes with the logo '''pennies for black babies '' . Now 40 odd years later and billions of euro later there are still people starving in Africa , which is a terrible thing to be happening , but all over the world their are tragedy's and disaster's some of which will not be solved no matter how much money is thrown at them
    At least with funds in place ND will be rebuilt , thankfully , and millions of people of all races and creeds can enjoy it for what it is , a beautiful historic building .
    13 million people a year cant be wrong

    I have a box of green shield stamps and Lyons tea minstrels. I was going to donate them to the black babies but The Notre Dame needs them more.
    But seriously, I remember the priest used to come round to our school with little Black Babies booklets to fill with Green Shield stamps over the Easter.


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    #850
    rossie1977
    Registered Users Posts: 11,342 ✭✭✭✭rossie1977


    Not sure if it's already been posted but this NBC piece from last year highlights the problems Notre Dame was facing long before the fire. The building was literally slowly crumbling



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    #851
    kowloon
    Registered Users Posts: 13,338 ✭✭✭✭kowloon


    Effects wrote: »
    People like Cold Play and voted for the Nazis.

    Yeah, I'm stealing that. :D


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    #852
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    kowloon wrote: »
    Yeah, I'm stealing that. :D

    Yeah because wishing to support the rebuilding of a church as part of our collective human history is the same as voting for the 'nazis'

    I'm not sure which is more stupid using that quote or thinking its somehow hilarious

    :rolleyes:


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    #853
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    It's actually a peep show quote..


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    #854
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    gozunda wrote: »
    Yeah because wishing to support the rebuilding of a church as part of our collective human history is the same as voting for the 'nazis'
    :rolleyes:

    It's a pop culture reference that went over your head.
    Even if you don't get where it's referenced from, it should still have made sense.

    Rebuilding the church isn't the Christian thing to do. Either was spending 30 million to rebuild St. Mels.
    It's worshipping false gods, a golden calf.


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    #855
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    It's actually a peep show quote..

    Yes I know and it makes as much sense and is about as relevant as pile of doggy doo ;)

    Thats it folks. We fooked... :D

    tenor.gif


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    #856
    wexandproud
    Registered Users Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭wexandproud


    Effects wrote: »
    People like Cold Play and voted for the Nazis.
    seeing as how you mentioned the nazies . when the germans were retreating from paris in ww2 hitler gave orders to raze all the iconic buildings to the ground luckily even the officers on the ground refused to do it , even they saw the value of them
    as for the poster above you bringing fire extinguishers into it . maybe the nuns would have been served the famine stricken people better in the long run by getting some one to educate them about contraception . In some of the countrie's ravaged by famine the population only drops very little and in some cases even rises


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    #857
    wexandproud
    Registered Users Posts: 1,063 ✭✭✭wexandproud


    Effects wrote: »
    It's a pop culture reference that went over your head.
    Even if you don't get where it's referenced from, it should still have made sense.

    Rebuilding the church isn't the Christian thing to do. Either was spending 30 million to rebuild St. Mels.
    It's worshipping false gods, a golden calf.
    ya , ''the christian''thing to do in countries that cant feed the population is the let the have more and more kids to starve to death and have them depend on charity


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    #858
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Effects wrote: »
    It's a pop culture reference that went over your head. Even if you don't get where it's referenced from, it should still have made sense.Rebuilding the church isn't the Christian thing to do. Either was spending 30 million to rebuild St. Mels. It's worshipping false gods, a golden calf.

    Did I mention 'christianity' btw?

    History?
    Culture?
    Heritage?
    Fire?

    Well obviously some ain't got time for that ...

    Here's more 'pop culture' (sic). Except this one might be a bit more relevant. Lol.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9xBQj6--wBA


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    #859
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    Fairly ridiculous the billionaires lining up to throw money at this so they can get their name attached to it.

    Yes, it's very sad that such an old piece of heritage was badly damaged. But rebuilding it, makes it new. And also erases history. You don't see anyone rushing to rebuild the Colosseum. Because that would be stupid; you'd be building a replica. Likewise repairing Notre Dame is just putting a replica in the place where the artifact once stood.

    There are definitely more important things that €1bn can be spent on.


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    #860
    Anteayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 886 ✭✭✭Anteayer


    Interestingly, Notre Dame Cathedral is actually owned by the French State. Under laws from 1905, the Catholic Church was granted perpetual rights to use the building for religious purposes and is responsible for security, heating, cleaning and ensuring it's always freely open to the public.

    Roughly 70 churches built before 1905 are owned like that, basically because they were built under the Ancien Régime, effectively using state and public funds as the Church had been an arm of the state. So the logic was that the state didn't simply allow a private entity to walk off with public buildings, so a compromise arrangement was struck. I guess part of it was a philosophical position but also a practical one, as there's always a risk that a cash strapped religious institution might sell a building off to private developers. We've seen plenty of it in Ireland. I know some C of I buildings were bought or granted to local authorities, but some fine church buildings of various origins have also ended up as private developments or have just fallen into total disrepair.

    The issue is that there's always been a dispute over how much the state pays, which as far as I'm aware is about €2m per year and how much the church contributes. There would be significant money made from donations and so on by the large number of tourists who visit.

    The other side of it is the Church would argue that Notre Dame is a major tourist draw and as such brings in money, but I guess that's a complex argument to make in the sense that while Notre Dame is a big and famous landmark, Paris is a collection of these.

    However, the state is always at pains to ensure that it is not funding the archdiocese of Paris as to do so would be unconstitutional.

    It's a complex arrangement and that's why you'll probably end up with a trust fund for the restoration that has to be kept very much dedicated to just the building work and not just sloshing into general church funds.


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    #861
    one armed dwarf
    Registered Users Posts: 858 ✭✭✭one armed dwarf


    I do not understand this thinking. Notre Dame has received renovations before, not to the lengths that this one will take but it's not like it was completed 825 years ago and stayed the same until this Monday.

    The repair efforts that happen now will become part of its history in the future. The history of Notre Dame is ongoing. Also it's still used as a place of worship while the Colosseum was used to torture slaves.


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    #862
    Anteayer
    Closed Accounts Posts: 886 ✭✭✭Anteayer


    All working ancient buildings go through constant maintenance, repair and renovation.

    I don't see any risk whatsoever of Notre Dame de Paris being left in a heap. It's a fundamental part of the architectural and cultural heritage of Paris.

    It'll probably be around in another 856 years.


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    #863
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    seamus wrote: »
    Fairly ridiculous the billionaires lining up to throw money at this so they can get their name attached to it.Yes, it's very sad that such an old piece of heritage was badly damaged. But rebuilding it, makes it new. And also erases history. You don't see anyone rushing to rebuild the Colosseum. Because that would be stupid; you'd be building a replica. Likewise repairing Notre Dame is just putting a replica in the place where the artifact once stood.There are definitely more important things that €1bn can be spent on.

    I suppose it boils down to the fact that people can choose do with their money whatever they think is most appropriate - whether it's some millionaire or little ol' granny with her savings.

    Proper restoration doesn't 'erase' anything btw - as in this case where most of the structure is still there - it simply adds another chapter to what is an Important building in it's own right - Both as a national treasure and a symbol of France itself. Also it is well known that the cathedral was in itself built over many centuries.

    Lol You must not be up on what's been happening with the Colosseum, if you think the Italians are about to bulldoze it for a bunch of Starbucks and fake food restaurants or whatever your having yourself ...

    https://www.theguardian.com/world/2016/jul/01/stage-set-colosseum-hosting-events-restoration-italy-rome


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    #864
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    I've no specific issue with the repair itself. It's the frenzied rush to throw money at it, as if it is a critical piece of humanity.

    It's a big old church in France. Sad that it went on fire, but let's not lose the run of ourselves. Historical buildings rise and fall and will forever rise and fall.

    The money raised will just get it repaired quicker than it would otherwise have been repaired anyway.

    There are many causes in greater need of €700m


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    #865
    Grayson
    Registered Users Posts: 16,155 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    wexandproud wrote: »
    seeing as how you mentioned the nazies . when the germans were retreating from paris in ww2 hitler gave orders to raze all the iconic buildings to the ground luckily even the officers on the ground refused to do it , even they saw the value of them

    So what you're saying is that the nazi's couldn't make up their mind?


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    #866
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    seamus wrote: »
    I've no specific issue with the repair itself. It's the frenzied rush to throw money at it, as if it is a critical piece of humanity.It's a big old church in France. Sad that it went on fire, but let's not lose the run of ourselves. Historical buildings rise and fall and will forever rise and fall. The money raised will just get it repaired quicker than it would otherwise have been repaired anyway.

    There are many causes in greater need of €700m

    So you are selling up and donating everything to these causes - whatever they are? Fair play ...


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    #867
    seamus
    Registered Users Posts: 68,317 ✭✭✭✭seamus


    gozunda wrote: »
    So you are selling up and donating everything to these causes - whatever they are? Fair play ...
    No, because I'm not a billionaire with money to throw at whatever vanity project will get my name in the media.


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    #868
    gozunda
    Registered Users Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    seamus wrote: »
    No, because I'm not a billionaire with money to throw at whatever vanity project will get my name in the media.

    And what if granny donates her savings to the restoration fund? - is that wrong too?
    Tbh the only difference with millionaires and the rest of us - is they've got a bit more money.
    Millionaires and others spend the money on a lot of things - some I agree with and some which imo are complete bull****e. But hey it's their money at the end of the day. Very few people would like anyone telling them what should or shouldn't donate to tbh.


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    #869
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    wexandproud wrote: »
    ya , ''the christian''thing to do in countries that cant feed the population is the let the have more and more kids to starve to death and have them depend on charity

    I don't think Jesus ever said anything about contraception.


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    #870
    Effects
    Registered Users Posts: 9,761 ✭✭✭Effects


    gozunda wrote: »
    Yes I know and it makes as much sense and is about as relevant as pile of doggy doo ;)

    I think you just don't understand it. That's all.


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    #871
    B0jangles
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,951 ✭✭✭B0jangles


    seamus wrote: »
    I've no specific issue with the repair itself. It's the frenzied rush to throw money at it, as if it is a critical piece of humanity.

    It's a big old church in France. Sad that it went on fire, but let's not lose the run of ourselves. Historical buildings rise and fall and will forever rise and fall.

    The money raised will just get it repaired quicker than it would otherwise have been repaired anyway.

    There are many causes in greater need of €700m


    The sad fact is that donating a big sum to this cause gets your name on a plaque and into the historical records of Notre Dame.


    Donating a big sum to help poor people gets you very little media attention and you can't really stick a plaque on 10,000 children who'd be dead if they hadn't been helped by your doantion.


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