Estate horses, should they be taken in by councils?

This ethnic minority have for decades have concluded that they are mistreated.

Some have even refused homes offered to them ‘free gratis’ on the basis there isn’t adequate provision for their animals (horses).

This is based on their assumptions that it is their right and culture to keep these horses and therefore us tax paying folks should foot that bill not only for the individuals and their accommodation but for the stabling of horses too.

If I move into a council house tomorrow with a fûcking pet gerbil, I’d be glad of the accommodation provided. I’m NOT going to be getting on the phone demanding a cage and a wheel under the Geneva Convention, the Warsaw Pact or the Maurice Bellchime guide to Warcraft and Wizardry.

It’s simple... your life, pay your way, work hard and rewards will come. Choose another path and things be different. Only the shît hits the fan, you can expect help. Getting some stables built isn’t help, it’s like me out of work and expecting the council to build me a pool because I’ve always swam and I deserve it !

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Do they provide figures for how many?

258 in 4 years of which 206 were put down.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I've worked on racing and other competition yards since I was about 12. I know what kind of quality of life some of our most beloved racehorses sometimes enjoy. And although I think that's a price worth paying (and trainers have little choice, anyway), I have absolutely no doubt but that there are happier, more contented ponies living on canal banks in Ballyfermot.

If that is somehow true then you know that just because Horses are big animals it doesnt mean they are super tough and indestructible, their hoofs, skin, mouths eyes etc. all need to be looked after, they are not somehow immune to the freezing conditions we get during cold snaps, and if little jordan or deano forgets to bring his horse water on a sweltering summer day it's not fine sure it had water yesterday. Absolutely incredible you would think this kind of behaviour is ok if you claim to have any empathy for horses or animals in general.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I think anybody who has worked for any significant length of time with horses, tends to have a very common-sense approach to their care, especially in the case of hardy and heavy, cross-bred types.

I mean no disrespect here, but a lot of the criticism is coming from the kind of people who thinks that horses must be stabled, and generally don't appreciate how tough these animals are.

I'm certainly not saying that they are indestructible, or that they can go without water -- literally, nobody has suggested that. But I certainly have seen pretty little coloured ponies ponies tethered along the canal in Dublin that, to my eye, were perfectly healthy and happy-out.

Go onto My Lovely Horse Rescues fb page and see what types of lives the majority of these horses have.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

The majority?

It's not a survey -- all of the horses rescued by by a charity will probably have been mistreated, by definition. The same cannot be said of horses that are not rescued.

See also: confirmation bias.

They can’t keep up with demand there are that many mistreated.

Having lived and worked in west Dublin for almost 50 years, anyone who thinks these horses are fairly treated is away with the fairies.

I look out my office window and see horses being chased by kids in scramblers daily. I see horses unattended in the fields.

These horses lead pitiful existences and cruelty is daily.

I was driving over the railway bridge in Clindalkin when a lone horse came charging up over the bridge, terrified snd coukd have killed someone.

In fact, so much so that some concerned locals are pushing a local councilor to tackle this serious issue with the Council.

Some stats here

http://www.echo.ie/news/article/horses-impounded-and-euthanised

Out of 227 horses, 5 were reclaimed by owner, 9 rehomed and 213 euthanized. I wonder if the 222 “responsible” owners ever followed up on what happened to their beloved horses? Or maybe just bought another one for 30.?

These numbers are not ok and do not point to responsible ownership.

You must be very out of touch.

https://www.thejournal.ie/my-lovely-horse-dublin-abuse-cruelty-3302265-Mar2017/

Thats just dublin.

“OVER 2,000 HORSES were destroyed in Dublin over a three-year period due to mistreatment and experts have said that the capital is at crisis”

The costs involved and the sheer numbers would indicate this is a serious issue which needs sorting. Stop deflecting and making excuses for irresponsible cruel behavior and blaming it on “classism” when ppl object.

The ridiculous thing is that it's not easy to hide a horse. The owners will be very visible but clearly the Council & Guards either don't want to act or are afraid to. Removing horses won't work as they are easily replaced. The law needs to be enforced.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I mean no disrespect here, but a lot of the criticism is coming from the kind of people who thinks that horses must be stabled, and generally don't appreciate how tough these animals are.

You might want to think that cos it suite you.

Horses are not animals to be roaming around housing estates . It's very simple.


It's bad enough that people fling dogs out to wander around the whole time.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

How would it possibly suit me?

It would be very easy for me to get on my figurative high-horse and denounce anyone who doesn't own land or pay a lot of money for livery -- but I know that plenty of landowners and even riding schools often keep their horses in much worse conditions than these 'estate horses' are kept in.

The narrative here is dishonest, and I think a lot of people don't even realise that their criticisms are based on class consciousness. The amount of focus on the fact that occupiers don't 'own' the land they use is very interesting -- it ought to be irrelevant to the question of whether cruelty is or is not occurring.

I'm sure anyone who has been involved in horses will know farmers and riders who kept horses in very questionable conditions, yet nobody clutches their pearls about this, because the rich man in his castle. the poor man at his gate, I suppose.

Will you give over whither the poor chisslers routine. Horses dont belong in housing estates. They are too big and unsuitable . There isnt room and they are being used anti socially by the brilliant horse owners you're bending over backwards to defend.


Using public land as your own to graze animals on isnt acceptable anymore than churning it up with motorbikes.

If they cared about the animals the way you reckon they spend the money to do it properly or not get them in the first place if they knew they couldn't afford to.

Would you're attitude be the same if I decided, living in tallaght, that I want a herd of cows and I'll just use whatever land and gardens are near my house. Maybe the neighbours should just shut up and deal with it.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Are you aware that most racehorses spend months on end, except for one or two hour's exercise six days per week, living in 12x12ft boxes?

I am blue in the face repeating this -- horses do not care about aesthetics. A back garden is a lot more pleasing to them than is a small, confined stable. Horses are not classists, nor snobbish in the slightest≥

People honestly need to re-examine their views on this topic, and question themselves on what exactly they are objecting to.

I think people may believe their primary concern is horse welfare -- but that may be misplaced, given that there's nothing inherently wrong with keeping horses in an urban environment. And a good deal of the issue really does seem to be snide objection to the social-class background of these horse-owners.

You think a lot instead of just reading the words that people are writing.

If someone owns acres of land, buys 20 horses and keeps them in cages barely bigger than the horses, that's an issue between them and the authorities.

In no way is that connected to people in housing estates deciding the land around them is for whatever ise they see fit and keeping horses on and it certainly doesn't make it right.

You selectively plucking bits of posts to reply because you think itll make your answers true doesn't go unnoticed either.


So, can I take whatever public land I like an effectively run a farm on it?

I’ve lived in a west Dublin all my life and witnessed first hand the cruelty inflicted in these poor animals.

But, now, you tell me I must be stupid? I must have had imagined it.

My concerns are misplaced? I haven’t seen dead horses on the side of the road.

You also do a grave disservice to people living life in Council areas, as if they are all wanting horses all over the place.

Not everyone wants to see horses galloping around the greens or sulky racers in their area holding up the traffic.

Some just want to live their lives normally and not have to tell their children to look away from the dead horse.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Because keeping one horse in your back garden may be viable -- not so a herd of cattle, obviously. If you wanted to keep a cow in your back garden, I'd have no objection.
.

So you're moving thr goalposts again.

We're not talking about 1 person with a animal. We're also not talking about 1 person with an animal in their back garden . You know this, you've been answering posts about multiple horses on public land for days now.

Kids riding horses around housing estates isnt appropriate, regardless of where they are kept.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

.

THere is, however, an important calculation that society needs to consider here. And that is whether equestrianism, in whatever form, represents an effective diversion for urban youths from criminal activities. There is a great deal of anecdotal evidence to say that this is so.

It's not an important calculation. Its wrong and shouldnt happen. Despite the fact that a lot of them are engaging in criminal activities in the course of the horse activities , the rest of the people in the estate shouldnt have to put up with it.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Why? When I ride down home, I go right into the village part of which includes a housing estate.If anyone objected to that, everyone around home would probably call them a crank.

Why do horses not belong in urban environments, in your view?

Where do you live and where is the horse kept?