Estate horses, should they be taken in by councils?

Kermit.de.frog

Anyone agree that all of these horses on random housing estates and beside main roads (often tied to poles) should be rounded up and taken in to care?

Saw a number of them this evening near Coolock and it's tragic. They are abused.

Does anyone know is a similar situation allowed in estates in the UK, for example? Or is this a distinctly Irish phenomenon?

whisky_galore

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Anyone agree that all of these horses on random housing estates and beside main roads (often tied to poles) should be rounded up and taken in to care?

Saw a number of them this evening near Coolock and it's tragic. They are abused.

Does anyone know is a similar situation allowed in estates in the UK, for example? Or is this a distinctly Irish phenomenon?

Or turned into glue. Whatever. Put them out of their misery.
Most are near worthless nags.

The pretence that a horse is a suitable household "pet", like a hamster or a gerbil, without the owners providing suitable facilities, has to be knocked on the head.

Atoms for Peace

The army ranger snipers should put them out of their misery.

orourkeda1977

Irelands favourite minority?

Surely not.

They embody community spirit and are the people we all want to be.

They wouldnt harm a horse in such a way

SEPT 23 1989

whisky_galore wrote: »

Or turned into glue. Whatever. Put them out of their misery.
Most are near worthless nags.

The pretence that a horse is a suitable household "pet", like a hamster or a gerbil, without the owners providing suitable facilities, has to be knocked on the head.

No animal is worthless

Knine

Atoms for Peace wrote: »

The army ranger snipers should put them out of their misery.

And their 'owners' at the same time

Atoms for Peace

If it isn't stables, it's motorbike tracks you can never have enough facilities for the "disadvantaged".

DEFTLEFTHAND

It's the people who are selling them to 14 year olds who need to be investigated.

That Smithfield horse fair is rife with this type of thing.

whisky_galore

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

No animal is worthless

Go and adopt one so.

They sure as sh1t won't win a Grand National.

Del2005

orourkeda1977 wrote: »

Irelands favourite minority?

Surely not.

They embody community spirit and are the people we all want to be.

They wouldnt harm a horse in such a way

Unfortunately not only them, the non minority are as bad in some places.

SEPT 23 1989 wrote: »

No animal is worthless

Anything is only worth what someone is willing to pay and I doubt these people are spending big money on the animal so it is worthless. The worse is the way they treat the poor animals, no shelter or water, death would be better.

BeerWolf

I hate them. Not the horses, but the trash that owns them. Poor things are treated like ****, and said trash don't care if they end up killing them. ISPCA should take all of them off their hands...

Your Face

Unfortunately I don't see where the council could place them.
It's an fairly expensive outlay to properly look after a horse.
They might have to be put down.

Force Carrier

Your Face wrote: »

Unfortunately I don't see where the council could place them.
It's an fairly expensive outlay to properly look after a horse.
They might have to be put down.

The Council do take them. Just on too small a scale.

The job is let out to some lads down the country who drive up with a box and pick up a stray horse. Sometimes leads to confrontations.

There also seems to be an approach that if a horse is being 'looked after' then it is not considered stray. By rights no horse should be allowed in any urban area in any circumstances.

Fr_Dougal

whisky_galore wrote: »

Go and adopt one so.

They sure as sh1t won't win a Grand National.

Well they won’t with that attitude!

El_Bee

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Anyone agree that all of these horses on random housing estates and beside main roads (often tied to poles) should be rounded up and taken in to care?

Saw a number of them this evening near Coolock and it's tragic. They are abused.

Does anyone know is a similar situation allowed in estates in the UK, for example? Or is this a distinctly Irish phenomenon?

Insanity, pure insanity that this practice has continued on into the 21st century, what thoughts go through people's heads giving large animals like horses to children to look after, insane I can't wrap my head around it.

EmmetSpiceland

We were never poor enough to own a horse.

bri007

Require a license to own a dog, I know a dog can bite etc but surely a horse can be dangerous if they are in fields etc where children could get a kick of one?

Always baffled me that no license was needed. I feel sorry for the poor horses awful way to be left.

mloc123

EmmetSpiceland wrote: »

We were never poor enough to own a horse.

Overheard a 7-8yr old kid this week... 200e saved, needs another 100e to buy his horse. Assume feed, vet etc... Will be all free after that. Poor horse.

MrFresh

They are often seized around Dublin. Council contract a pound to do it and they go with the Gardaí in the middle of the night to seize loose ones. Not done regularly enough though.

Speedsie

bri007 wrote: »

Require a license to own a dog, I know a dog can bite etc but surely a horse can be dangerous if they are in fields etc where children could get a kick of one?

Always baffled me that no license was needed. I feel sorry for the poor horses awful way to be left.

Control of Horses act 1996 requires licenses in certain areas. Not widely observed though.

http://www.irishstatutebook.ie/eli/1996/act/37/section/17/enacted/en/html#sec17

Jimbob1977

There are horses tethered to trees within 200 yards of Limerick railway station.

You can imagine the scene.

Horses, scramblers, quad bikes, people in grey tracksuits with one hand down their pants.

I'd say Limerick Animal Welfare are very busy

kowloon

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

Horses, scramblers, quad bikes, people in grey tracksuits with one hand down their pants.

Why always grey?

pablo128

For fcuks sake we can't even look after our homeless and you want the council to look after de horses too?:pac::pac:

Kermit.de.frog

kowloon wrote: »

Why always grey?

Any attempt at style uses too much brain mater? It could literally hurt them.

El_Bee

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Any attempt at style uses too much brain mater? It could literally hurt them.

now now they wear those puffer jackets too, and those motorcycle masks that go around you mouth and nose, they're very popular with the kids these days

Silver Breeze

Here is a fun story...

In 1975 I was living with friends in a house on Lanahrone Avenue, Corbally, Limerick. The estate had no hedgerows, so all front lawns ran into the neighbour's lawn. I was up early, A Sunday morning, ready to take friends for a drive to Clare. Drinking coffee and looking out the front window, I spotted a battered lad rover with a battered horsebox trailer. hey stopped across the road, two fellows hopped out and led two hobbled horses out of the box and onto our lawn. I went out and said: "You can't do that" and they said "**** off" and drove away. Leaving the horses to graze in the front lawn.

I found some twine in the kitchen, tied it to the two horses, and led them down the street and around the corner to the home of Dessie O'Msalley, TD. He had been justice minister in a previous government, but lost out to Cosgrave et al.

I tied the two horses to Dessies front door knocker (remember, front doors open inwards.) and legged it back home and drove away.

Roll on 30 years and at a function I asked him "Do you remember..." He laughed and said the Guards made sure never happened again.

GreeBo

kowloon wrote: »

Why always grey?

They don't all start out grey...

YFlyer

Silver Breeze wrote: »

Here is a fun story...

In 1975 I was living with friends in a house on Lanahrone Avenue, Corbally, Limerick. The estate had no hedgerows, so all front lawns ran into the neighbour's lawn. I was up early, A Sunday morning, ready to take friends for a drive to Clare. Drinking coffee and looking out the front window, I spotted a battered lad rover with a battered horsebox trailer. hey stopped across the road, two fellows hopped out and led two hobbled horses out of the box and onto our lawn. I went out and said: "You can't do that" and they said "**** off" and drove away. Leaving the horses to graze in the front lawn.

I found some twine in the kitchen, tied it to the two horses, and led them down the street and around the corner to the home of Dessie O'Msalley, TD. He had been justice minister in a previous government, but lost out to Cosgrave et al.

I tied the two horses to Dessies front door knocker (remember, front doors open inwards.) and legged it back home and drove away.

Roll on 30 years and at a function I asked him "Do you remember..." He laughed and said the Guards made sure never happened again.

Willie would have shot them.

YFlyer

Jimbob1977 wrote: »

There are horses tethered to trees within 200 yards of Limerick railway station.

You can imagine the scene.

Horses, scramblers, quad bikes, people in grey tracksuits with one hand down their pants.

I'd say Limerick Animal Welfare are very busy

Horses also along the Childers road.

YFlyer

whisky_galore wrote: »

Go and adopt one so.

They sure as sh1t won't win a Grand National.

From the Shargar program last week. If they have hair on their hoofs, they're not racing horses.

Kermit.de.frog

They don't look in any condition to walk really never mind race.

suicide_circus

a lot of dehumanizing language towards the low socio economic chizzlers whose only joy is riding around on their best pals.

Guy:Incognito

Your Face wrote: »

It's an fairly expensive outlay to properly look after a horse.

.

Hardly, sure you just bung them in a field somewhere. They practically look after themselves............

Guy:Incognito

Force Carrier wrote: »

There also seems to be an approach that if a horse is being 'looked after' then it is not considered stray. By rights no horse should be allowed in any urban area in any circumstances.

If its being "looked after" on public land, it should be considered a stray.

Guy:Incognito

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Hardly, sure you just bung them in a field somewhere. They practically look after themselves............

Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but there are two points to make here.

The types of horses that tend to be kept on housing estates (and we are talking types here, as opposed to breeds) are very rough, hardy horses that are far more resilient than a Thoroughbred or some continental warmblood, who would struggle to cope in that type of environment.

Secondly, I am hugely skeptical at previous claims, on this thread and via media, that these horses are often abused. The only time I've seen serious abuse of a horse, which probably should have been reported to authorities, happened in a racing yard, to a horse who had cost the abuser tens of thousands of euro to just be born.

The guys on the estates typically have just the one horse, and anecdotally, tend to take tremendous care of them -- far moreso than your average riding school with 20 or 30 nags grazing outdoors throughout the year, or confined for most of the time in unsuitable stabling.

Guy:Incognito

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Not sure if you're being sarcastic, .

I was, yes.


If you need to use public land to keep your pet, you cant afford that pet.

henryporter

Twenty years ago the likes of Bono and Fintan O'Toole waxed lyrically about the "Pony Kids" culture in and around Dublin - obviously they hadn't witnessed scenes like some of the posters here.

Last week i was visiting the nephew in the National Orthopedic Hospital and saw similar scenes on the wasteland behind the hospital - the lads mother even witnessed a mare foaling in torrential rain while scrotes tore up and down the wasteland on scrambler bikes terrifying the animals - said scrotes were also busy attending to the burning cars some of which had been stolen from the hospital car park.

I'm sure Roddy Doyle will write a funny book about it some day!

whisky_galore

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Not sure if you're being sarcastic, but there are two points to make here.

The types of horses that tend to be kept on housing estates (and we are talking types here, as opposed to breeds) are very rough, hardy horses that are far more resilient than a Thoroughbred or some continental warmblood, who would struggle to cope in that type of environment.

Secondly, I am hugely skeptical at previous claims, on this thread and via media, that these horses are often abused. The only time I've seen serious abuse of a horse, which probably should have been reported to authorities, happened in a racing yard, to a horse who had cost the abuser tens of thousands of euro to just be born.

The guys on the estates typically have just the one horse, and anecdotally, tend to take tremendous care of them -- far moreso than your average riding school with 20 or 30 nags grazing outdoors throughout the year, or confined for most of the time in unsuitable stabling.

Ah shur it'll be grand. Nothing to see here.

Obviously the massive abandoned horses problem is all fake news.

Discodog

A few years ago a group of children stoned a foal to death in Galway. The Guards said it was up to the GSPCA to act & the GSPCA pointed out that they have no powers without the Gardai.

There is legislation & horses can be seized. They can't pursue the owners because they ignore the law & don't register & microchip the horses.

whisky_galore

whisky_galore wrote: »

Ah shur it'll be grand. Nothing to see here.

Obviously the massive abandoned horses problem is all fake news.

I think a lot of it is stoked-up by a mixture of antipathy towards youths from poorer households, and also a well-meaning but totally misinformed notion of how horses need to be kept.

And yes, there have been cases of extreme cruelty which have subsequently found to be minfounded, including one where an animal was supposed to have been burned alive.

Discodog

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I think a lot of it is stoked-up by a mixture of antipathy towards youths from poorer households, and also a well-meaning but totally misinformed notion of how horses need to be kept.

And yes, there have been cases of extreme cruelty which have subsequently found to be minfounded, including one where an animal was supposed to have been burned alive.

How about legally ? What happens when these horses roam or need Vet care, shoeing etc ?

whisky_galore

Discodog wrote: »

How about legally ? What happens when these horses roam or need Vet care, shoeing etc ?

Micro chipping??
Like they're going to bother their arses doing that.

A horse is for life, not just for Xmas.

Guy:Incognito

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I think a lot of it is stoked-up by a mixture of antipathy towards youths from poorer households, and also a well-meaning but totally misinformed notion of how horses need to be kept.

And yes, there have been cases of extreme cruelty which have subsequently found to be minfounded, including one where an animal was supposed to have been burned alive.

Tieing up a horse in a public field and coming back every day to ride it around is not a way horses should be kept. There isnt any justification for horses to be in housing estates.

If you dont have land or wont pay to keep a horse properly , you shouldnt have horses.

Guy:Incognito

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Tieing up a horse in a public field and coming back every day to ride it around is not a way horses should be kept.

Why do so many people seem fixated with the ownership of the field, in cases of supposed cruelty?

If the above is cruelty, what's the ownership of the field got to do with it? The horse doesn't care who owns the deeds.

Discodog

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Why do so many people seem fixated with the ownership of the field, in cases of supposed cruelty?

If the above is cruelty, what's the ownership of the field got to do with it? The horse doesn't care who owns the deeds.

So do these lads rent a field as in pay rent to someone ? The law states that:


( a) the animal is kept and treated in a manner that—

(i) safeguards the health and welfare of the animal, and

(ii) does not threaten the health or welfare of the animal or another animal,

and

( b) all buildings, gates, fences, hedges, boundary walls and other structures used to contain the animal are constructed and maintained in a manner so that they do not cause injury or unnecessary suffering to the animal.

(2) A person who fails to comply with this section commits an offence.



Prohibition on animal cruelty.

12.—(1) A person shall not—

( a) do, or fail to do, anything or cause or permit anything to be done to an animal that causes unnecessary suffering to, or endanger the health or welfare of, an animal, or

( b) neglect, or be reckless, regarding the health or welfare of an animal.

(2) A person who contravenes this section commits an offence.

Discodog

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Tieing up a horse in a public field and coming back every day to ride it around is not a way horses should be kept. There isnt any justification for horses to be in housing estates.

If you dont have land or wont pay to keep a horse properly , you shouldnt have horses.

But yet again it raises the issue of discrimination. Most horse owners have to comply with the law, whereas a certain section don't.

Discodog

Discodog wrote: »

So do these lads rent a field as in pay rent to someone ? The law states that:

I'm not objecting to anti-cruelty legislation, so long as it is interpreted in a pragmatic and fair manner.

All I'm saying is that it's a bit hard to swallow the claim that there isn't classism at play, when some people are openly gasping at the fact that these horse-owners are not land-owners.

I suggest all of our 'cruelty experts' familiarise themselves with more professional establishments, like racing yards and dressage yards, where a horse may be in a box (stable) for 20 hours a day, and never be allowed out on grass at all during the competition season.

Many animals living on estates have a far better quality of life than that. A horse needs the company of other horses, a satisfactory supply of food, basic good health, and the ability to graze outdoors. And most horses on estates seem to get all of this and more.

A horse does not appreciate aesthetics, it doesn't give a sh1t whether it lives in the National Stud or Ballfermot; nor has it any anxiety about private property.

El_Bee

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Many animals living on estates have a far better quality of life than that.

You're certifiable if you believe that.

El_Bee

El_Bee wrote: »

You're certifiable if you believe that.

I've worked on racing and other competition yards since I was about 12. I know what kind of quality of life some of our most beloved racehorses sometimes enjoy. And although I think that's a price worth paying (and trainers have little choice, anyway), I have absolutely no doubt but that there are happier, more contented ponies living on canal banks in Ballyfermot.

Discodog

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I've worked on racing and other competition yards since I was about 12. I know what kind of quality of life some of our most beloved racehorses sometimes enjoy. And although I think that's a price worth paying (and trainers have little choice, anyway), I have absolutely no doubt but that there are happier, more contented ponies living on canal banks in Ballyfermot.

I wouldn't doubt you regarding the racing industry. But the law has to mean something & if you allow one group to constantly break the law then that's discrimination.

It has nothing to do with class. No one is stopping any of these people from lawfully owning a horse. I can't speak for Dublin but I know that some groups around Galway treat horses & other animals appallingly & the Guards won't touch them.

nice_guy80

Saw a sulky being driven out along the Chapolizard bypass today....
in the bus lane....
while the driver was on his phone....
(probably checking the betting for some race meeting)