Estate horses, should they be taken in by councils?

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ie_4LoVV_YM

I can't say I've ever, ever, ever had to personally worry about horses going around an estate, although for a brief moment in 1992 I was at the edge of my seat hoping that Tayto would survive Ballymun, then the most dangerous place in Christendom.

Maybe if the local councils could provide stables with every council house we wouldn't have this problem? ...

Strumms

This ethnic minority have for decades have concluded that they are mistreated.

Some have even refused homes offered to them ‘free gratis’ on the basis there isn’t adequate provision for their animals (horses).

This is based on their assumptions that it is their right and culture to keep these horses and therefore us tax paying folks should foot that bill not only for the individuals and their accommodation but for the stabling of horses too.

If I move into a council house tomorrow with a fûcking pet gerbil, I’d be glad of the accommodation provided. I’m NOT going to be getting on the phone demanding a cage and a wheel under the Geneva Convention, the Warsaw Pact or the Maurice Bellchime guide to Warcraft and Wizardry.

It’s simple... your life, pay your way, work hard and rewards will come. Choose another path and things be different. Only the shît hits the fan, you can expect help. Getting some stables built isn’t help, it’s like me out of work and expecting the council to build me a pool because I’ve always swam and I deserve it !

Not just the ethnic community....in west Dublin its the skanger community as well...

ofcork

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

Do they provide figures for how many?

258 in 4 years of which 206 were put down.

Discodog

ofcork wrote: »

258 in 4 years of which 206 were put down.

Which highlights the way they are seen as disposable. If you have a horse then you are responsible, not the Council. If the law isn't enforced then more people simply break the law. The Council should charge the "owners" the rehoming costs & if necessary deduct it from their earnings/benefits.

El_Bee

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I've worked on racing and other competition yards since I was about 12. I know what kind of quality of life some of our most beloved racehorses sometimes enjoy. And although I think that's a price worth paying (and trainers have little choice, anyway), I have absolutely no doubt but that there are happier, more contented ponies living on canal banks in Ballyfermot.

If that is somehow true then you know that just because Horses are big animals it doesnt mean they are super tough and indestructible, their hoofs, skin, mouths eyes etc. all need to be looked after, they are not somehow immune to the freezing conditions we get during cold snaps, and if little jordan or deano forgets to bring his horse water on a sweltering summer day it's not fine sure it had water yesterday. Absolutely incredible you would think this kind of behaviour is ok if you claim to have any empathy for horses or animals in general.

El_Bee wrote: »

If that is somehow true then you know that just because Horses are big animals it doesnt mean they are super tough and indestructible, their hoofs, skin, mouths eyes etc. all need to be looked after, they are not somehow immune to the freezing conditions we get during cold snaps, and if little jordan or deano forgets to bring his horse water on a sweltering summer day it's not fine sure it had water yesterday. Absolutely incredible you would think this kind of behaviour is ok if you claim to have any empathy for horses or animals in general.

I think anybody who has worked for any significant length of time with horses, tends to have a very common-sense approach to their care, especially in the case of hardy and heavy, cross-bred types.

I mean no disrespect here, but a lot of the criticism is coming from the kind of people who thinks that horses must be stabled, and generally don't appreciate how tough these animals are.

I'm certainly not saying that they are indestructible, or that they can go without water -- literally, nobody has suggested that. But I certainly have seen pretty little coloured ponies ponies tethered along the canal in Dublin that, to my eye, were perfectly healthy and happy-out.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I think anybody who has worked for any significant length of time with horses, tends to have a very common-sense approach to their care, especially in the case of hardy and heavy, cross-bred types.

I mean no disrespect here, but a lot of the criticism is coming from the kind of people who thinks that horses must be stabled, and generally don't appreciate how tough these animals are.

I'm certainly not saying that they are indestructible, or that they can go without water -- literally, nobody has suggested that. But I certainly have seen pretty little coloured ponies ponies tethered along the canal in Dublin that, to my eye, were perfectly healthy and happy-out.

Go onto My Lovely Horse Rescues fb page and see what types of lives the majority of these horses have.

anewme wrote: »

Go onto My Lovely Horse Rescues fb page and see what types of lives the majority of these horses have.

The majority?

It's not a survey -- all of the horses rescued by by a charity will probably have been mistreated, by definition. The same cannot be said of horses that are not rescued.

See also: confirmation bias.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

The majority?

It's not a survey -- all of the horses rescued by by a charity will probably have been mistreated, by definition. The same cannot be said of horses that are not rescued.

See also: confirmation bias.

They can’t keep up with demand there are that many mistreated.

Having lived and worked in west Dublin for almost 50 years, anyone who thinks these horses are fairly treated is away with the fairies.

I look out my office window and see horses being chased by kids in scramblers daily. I see horses unattended in the fields.

These horses lead pitiful existences and cruelty is daily.

I was driving over the railway bridge in Clindalkin when a lone horse came charging up over the bridge, terrified snd coukd have killed someone.

In fact, so much so that some concerned locals are pushing a local councilor to tackle this serious issue with the Council.

Some stats here

http://www.echo.ie/news/article/horses-impounded-and-euthanised

Out of 227 horses, 5 were reclaimed by owner, 9 rehomed and 213 euthanized. I wonder if the 222 “responsible” owners ever followed up on what happened to their beloved horses? Or maybe just bought another one for 30.?

These numbers are not ok and do not point to responsible ownership.

You must be very out of touch.

BrokenArrows

Yes, it shouldn't be allowed. Especially when they're being kept on public land.

https://www.thejournal.ie/my-lovely-horse-dublin-abuse-cruelty-3302265-Mar2017/

Thats just dublin.

“OVER 2,000 HORSES were destroyed in Dublin over a three-year period due to mistreatment and experts have said that the capital is at crisis”

The costs involved and the sheer numbers would indicate this is a serious issue which needs sorting. Stop deflecting and making excuses for irresponsible cruel behavior and blaming it on “classism” when ppl object.

Richard Hillman

I went by Moyross on the train yesterday. They have enough horses there for 2 Grand Nationals.

Discodog

The ridiculous thing is that it's not easy to hide a horse. The owners will be very visible but clearly the Council & Guards either don't want to act or are afraid to. Removing horses won't work as they are easily replaced. The law needs to be enforced.

suicide_circus

anewme wrote: »

https://www.thejournal.ie/my-lovely-horse-dublin-abuse-cruelty-3302265-Mar2017/

Thats just dublin.

“OVER 2,000 HORSES were destroyed in Dublin over a three-year period due to mistreatment and experts have said that the capital is at crisis”

thats close to 2 horses per day being put down in Dublin alone.

but then again, how many dogs and cats are meeting the same fate?

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

I mean no disrespect here, but a lot of the criticism is coming from the kind of people who thinks that horses must be stabled, and generally don't appreciate how tough these animals are.

You might want to think that cos it suite you.

Horses are not animals to be roaming around housing estates . It's very simple.

It's bad enough that people fling dogs out to wander around the whole time.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

You might want to think that cos it suite you.

How would it possibly suit me?

It would be very easy for me to get on my figurative high-horse and denounce anyone who doesn't own land or pay a lot of money for livery -- but I know that plenty of landowners and even riding schools often keep their horses in much worse conditions than these 'estate horses' are kept in.

The narrative here is dishonest, and I think a lot of people don't even realise that their criticisms are based on class consciousness. The amount of focus on the fact that occupiers don't 'own' the land they use is very interesting -- it ought to be irrelevant to the question of whether cruelty is or is not occurring.

I'm sure anyone who has been involved in horses will know farmers and riders who kept horses in very questionable conditions, yet nobody clutches their pearls about this, because the rich man in his castle. the poor man at his gate, God made them high and lowly, And ordered their estate.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

How would it possibly suit me?

It would be very easy for me to get on my figurative high-horse and denounce anyone who doesn't own land or pay a lot of money for livery -- but I know that plenty of landowners and even riding schools often keep their horses in much worse conditions than these 'estate horses' are kept in.

The narrative here is dishonest, and I think a lot of people don't even realise that their criticisms are based on class consciousness. The amount of focus on the fact that occupiers don't 'own' the land they use is very interesting -- it ought to be irrelevant to the question of whether cruelty is or is not occurring.

I'm sure anyone who has been involved in horses will know farmers and riders who kept horses in very questionable conditions, yet nobody clutches their pearls about this, because the rich man in his castle. the poor man at his gate, I suppose.

Will you give over whither the poor chisslers routine. Horses dont belong in housing estates. They are too big and unsuitable . There isnt room and they are being used anti socially by the brilliant horse owners you're bending over backwards to defend.

Using public land as your own to graze animals on isnt acceptable anymore than churning it up with motorbikes.

If they cared about the animals the way you reckon they spend the money to do it properly or not get them in the first place if they knew they couldn't afford to.

Would you're attitude be the same if I decided, living in tallaght, that I want a herd of cows and I'll just use whatever land and gardens are near my house. Maybe the neighbours should just shut up and deal with it.

Strumms

The narrative isn’t dishonest. The dishonestly stems from any person or groups of people who wish to keep animals without having the required interest or resources to provide adequately for their care.

mazwell

henryporter wrote: »

Twenty years ago the likes of Bono and Fintan O'Toole waxed lyrically about the "Pony Kids" culture in and around Dublin - obviously they hadn't witnessed scenes like some of the posters here.

Last week i was visiting the nephew in the National Orthopedic Hospital and saw similar scenes on the wasteland behind the hospital - the lads mother even witnessed a mare foaling in torrential rain while scrotes tore up and down the wasteland on scrambler bikes terrifying the animals - said scrotes were also busy attending to the burning cars some of which had been stolen from the hospital car park.

I'm sure Roddy Doyle will write a funny book about it some day!

Easy for bono and fintan o toole to wax lyrically about it. They'll never have it in their garden.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Will you give over whither the poor chisslers routine. Horses dont belong in housing estates. They are too big and unsuitable

Are you aware that most racehorses spend months on end, except for one or two hour's exercise six days per week, living in 12x12ft boxes?

I am blue in the face repeating this -- horses do not care about aesthetics. A back garden is a lot more pleasing to them than is a small, confined stable. Horses are not classists, nor snobbish in the slightest≥

People honestly need to re-examine their views on this topic, and question themselves on what exactly they are objecting to.

I think people may believe their primary concern is horse welfare -- but that may be misplaced, given that there's nothing inherently wrong with keeping horses in an urban environment. And a good deal of the issue really does seem to be snide objection to the social-class background of these horse-owners.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Are you aware that most racehorses spend months on end, except for one or two hour's exercise six days per week, living in 12x12ft boxes?

I am blue in the face repeating this -- horses do not care about aesthetics. A back garden is a lot more pleasing to them than is a small, confined stable. Horses are not classists, nor snobbish in the slightest≥

People honestly need to re-examine their views on this topic, and question themselves on what exactly they are objecting to.

I think people may believe their primary concern is horse welfare -- but that may be misplaced, given that there's nothing inherently wrong with keeping horses in an urban environment. And a good deal of the issue really does seem to be snide objection to the social-class background of these horse-owners.

You think a lot instead of just reading the words that people are writing.

If someone owns acres of land, buys 20 horses and keeps them in cages barely bigger than the horses, that's an issue between them and the authorities.

In no way is that connected to people in housing estates deciding the land around them is for whatever ise they see fit and keeping horses on and it certainly doesn't make it right.

You selectively plucking bits of posts to reply because you think itll make your answers true doesn't go unnoticed either.

So, can I take whatever public land I like an effectively run a farm on it?

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So, can I take whatever public land I like an effectively run a farm on it?

Of course not -- but let's be clear then, your objection is to do with titles to property, and not animal welfare.

The former is primarily an economics and policy issue.

I’ve lived in a west Dublin all my life and witnessed first hand the cruelty inflicted in these poor animals.

But, now, you tell me I must be stupid? I must have had imagined it.

My concerns are misplaced? I haven’t seen dead horses on the side of the road.

You also do a grave disservice to people living life in Council areas, as if they are all wanting horses all over the place.

Not everyone wants to see horses galloping around the greens or sulky racers in their area holding up the traffic.

Some just want to live their lives normally and not have to tell their children to look away from the dead horse.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Of course not -- but let's be clear then, you objection is to do with titles to property, and not animal welfare.

The former is primarily an economics and policy issue.

Why cant I? Sure the cows dont know any difference.

Or if i just decide to keep the cows cos I like to look at them in a field, then the green in front of everyone's house on the road is now suitable for me to keep my herd?

You can keep ****eing on about class systems and whatever you like to try muddy the waters, but I'm assuming you're actually reading the posts youre selectively quoting so you know I've said I'm from tallaght. So which lower class am I looking down on?

The issue is the welfare of everyone. Social responsibility. Everyone in the area not being scumbags means life is better for everyone. Is it grand for young kids to be out playing in a field with horses? Or should they be kept in so people can use the space for large animals? Same as scramblers going up and down without a **** given endangers people.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

Why cant I? Sure the cows dont know any difference. .

Because keeping one horse in your back garden may be viable -- not so a herd of cattle, obviously. If you wanted to keep a cow in your back garden, I'd have no objection.

The great poet and horsewoman Leland Bardwell, who used to live in Tallaght herself, kept a horse in her garden. But since she was effectively gentry, this was looked on as 'eccentric' and with great humour.

The issue is the welfare of everyone. Social responsibility. Everyone in the area not being scumbags means life is better for everyone.

THere is, however, an important calculation that society needs to consider here. And that is whether equestrianism, in whatever form, represents an effective diversion for urban youths from criminal activities. There is a great deal of anecdotal evidence to say that this is so.

ashes2014

BeerWolf wrote: »

I hate them. Not the horses, but the trash that owns them. Poor things are treated like ****, and said trash don't care if they end up killing them. ISPCA should take all of them off their hands...

i agree totally, its really sad that the mistreatment of these animals is happening. The poor horses must be so miserable.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

Because keeping one horse in your back garden may be viable -- not so a herd of cattle, obviously. If you wanted to keep a cow in your back garden, I'd have no objection.
.

So you're moving thr goalposts again.

We're not talking about 1 person with a animal. We're also not talking about 1 person with an animal in their back garden . You know this, you've been answering posts about multiple horses on public land for days now.

Kids riding horses around housing estates isnt appropriate, regardless of where they are kept.

A Tyrant Named Miltiades! wrote: »

.

THere is, however, an important calculation that society needs to consider here. And that is whether equestrianism, in whatever form, represents an effective diversion for urban youths from criminal activities. There is a great deal of anecdotal evidence to say that this is so.

It's not an important calculation. Its wrong and shouldnt happen. Despite the fact that a lot of them are engaging in criminal activities in the course of the horse activities , the rest of the people in the estate shouldnt have to put up with it.

Guy:Incognito wrote: »

So you're moving thr goalposts again.

We're not talking about 1 person with a animal. We're also not talking about 1 person with an animal in their back garden .

Kids riding horses around housing estates isnt appropriate, regardless of where they are kept.

Why? When I ride down home, I go right into the village part of which includes a housing estate.If anyone objected to that, everyone around home would probably call them a crank.

Why do horses not belong in urban environments, in your view?