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Guinness Pro14 Season 2018-2019

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  • Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Zzippy wrote: »
    Can only the winning team get a TBP in T14? So only one bonus point can be won in a game, either a TBP for winners or LBP for tight losers?

    Correct.


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,280 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    I wish they would change to the French model of winning AND scoring three more tries than the opposition. It shouldn't be possible for a team that loses by a considerable amount to be awarded a bonus point.

    This also prevents a team getting two bonus points via scoring four tries and losing within seven.

    yeah they have this in super rugby too and its such a better system.

    it encourages a losing team to keep playing against rivals in order to deny them the bonus point.... even if losing by 20 points going into the last 10 minutes.

    it is also a lot better for betting :)
    as the current pro14 system allows a much better team to race to a 4 try haul before taking the foot off and the goal becoming just staying ahead


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,836 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    Zzippy wrote: »
    Can only the winning team get a TBP in T14? So only one bonus point can be won in a game, either a TBP for winners or LBP for tight losers?

    The opposition can score 3 more tries than you and you can still finish within 7 points so both BPs are on the table, albeit less likely.


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    Surely giving a team something to pay for for themselves is better? If Dragons played Leinster tomorrow why would they care if Leinster got the TBP or not? Surely they care more about what they can get from the game?


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 10,397 Mod ✭✭✭✭aloooof


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Surely giving a team something to pay for for themselves is better? If Dragons played Leinster tomorrow why would they care if Leinster got the TBP or not? Surely they care more about what they can get from the game?

    If you factor in the conference system as well, maybe the current approach makes more sense than the Top 14 approach?


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  • Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Surely giving a team something to pay for for themselves is better? If Dragons played Leinster tomorrow why would they care if Leinster got the TBP or not? Surely they care more about what they can get from the game?

    It's a bit farcical IMO if you get a bonus point while at the same shipping 50-60 points.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 14,166 Mod ✭✭✭✭Zzippy


    It's a bit farcical IMO if you get a bonus point while at the same shipping 50-60 points.

    Well, it's rewarding attacking play and scoring tries, which is what the casual viewer wants to see, not to mention the serious rugby fans.


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,280 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    molloyjh wrote: »
    Surely giving a team something to pay for for themselves is better? If Dragons played Leinster tomorrow why would they care if Leinster got the TBP or not? Surely they care more about what they can get from the game?

    its not better because its artificial

    if a team obtains the TBP with say 20 minutes left and they are 25 points ahead.. with the opposition having already scored two tries....
    then what interest have they in the rest of the game???
    the opposition run in two late tries and leave with a point having being resoundingly beat off the park .

    as was rightly said already.. all you have to do is look at the Kings TBP haul already this year... and compare it to their points against (zebre as well actually, which is worse)

    having seen the change in super rugby i can attest that the '3 tries or more' rule makes for better games. You (mostly) get genuine 80 minute games as if a team gets 4 tries up, their is always a risk that if they take the foot off the opposition team can run in a couple of tries and rid you of that TBP.


  • Moderators, Sports Moderators Posts: 25,836 Mod ✭✭✭✭Podge_irl


    All bonus points are artificial though. The very fact of considering winning by tries inherently better than winning by penalties is a bit bizarre.

    I'd be fine with just leaving it so that only the winning team can get a TBP. I think the "3 more tries" rule is completely stupid.


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,280 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    Podge_irl wrote: »
    All bonus points are artificial though. The very fact of considering winning by tries inherently better than winning by penalties is a bit bizarre.

    I'd be fine with just leaving it so that only the winning team can get a TBP. I think the "3 more tries" rule is completely stupid.

    i think its infinitely better than the "race to 4 tries" that the pro 14 has...
    but hey, each to their own :D


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  • Registered Users Posts: 12,604 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    Of course the other approach is to make bonus points conceded by you count against you. Turning it into a sum zero game.

    Normal game winner gets 6 and the loser 1. Winner gets TBP they get 7, loser 0. Loser gets LBP its 5-2. They get tbp and LBP its 4-3.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,719 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    errlloyd wrote: »
    Of course the other approach is to make bonus points conceded by you count against you. Turning it into a sum zero game.

    Normal game winner gets 6 and the loser 1. Winner gets TBP they get 7, loser 0. Loser gets LBP its 5-2. They get tbp and LBP its 4-3.

    A minefield for permutations! :P interesting idea though!


  • Registered Users Posts: 24,745 ✭✭✭✭molloyjh


    sydthebeat wrote: »
    You (mostly) get genuine 80 minute games as if a team gets 4 tries up, their is always a risk that if they take the foot off the opposition team can run in a couple of tries and rid you of that TBP.

    And there's always a risk that, with nothing to gain, a team losing by 20 and on 2-3 tries doesn't bother going for any more. Let's not forget, the game is played very differently here to Super Rugby.


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,280 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    molloyjh wrote: »
    And there's always a risk that, with nothing to gain, a team losing by 20 and on 2-3 tries doesn't bother going for any more. Let's not forget, the game is played very differently here to Super Rugby.

    Same rules in France


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,334 ✭✭✭✭Burkie1203




  • Registered Users Posts: 21,625 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    The OP just seems to keep replying "it's the right size for a final in Wales" when anyone says it'd be too small if a team like one of the Irish provinces (who tend to have a bigger travelling support base) made it to the final.

    Even though the attendance at Murrayfield in 2016 was 34550 which is over capacity for Cardiff City Stadium.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,719 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Think capacity would be fine. Like you say highest attendance outside Dublin last few years was Murrayfield.


  • Registered Users Posts: 21,625 ✭✭✭✭Squidgy Black


    Kings just gave away one of the worst intercept passes I've ever seen, Ospreys shot up in the line and Kings outhalf threw the pass directly into the chest of the Ospreys player two feet away.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,719 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    So Munster 1st in A currently, Leinster and Ulster guaranteed 1st and 2nd in B. Big match for Connacht tomorrow, a win would get them 3rd. Not too shabby!


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,728 ✭✭✭Former Former


    You'd expect Benetton to get over the line against Zebre and secure third, I really hope they do.

    Edinburgh will need to beat Glasgow to get the playoff, given that Scarlets have Zebre this week and Dragons last and could well overtake them.

    The maths is very simple for Connacht, any win tomorrow seals third spot. Lose and they will need to win in Thomond in the last round... You'd have to back Connacht tomorrow which would mean a straight shoot out between Ospreys and Cardiff for a place in the playoff.

    It's mad that Leinster v Ulster on the final day is a dead rubber for both sides.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Ospreys put a cricket score on the Kings so Cardiff are suddenly battling to stay in the top 4, nevermind the top 3.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,604 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    It's mad that Leinster v Ulster on the final day is a dead rubber for both sides.

    Ita a coincidence of course but I'm always glad when teams with nothing to play for play each other so it doesn't upset balance in the league. Ospreys Cardiff on the final day could be a belter.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,719 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    If Connacht win today they will be guaranteed 3rd so may not need to send their strongest team away next weekend.

    Glasgow even if lose today will be fighting for 1st next weekend, Edinburgh will want to get 3rd so that should be competitive.

    Zebre don't have much to play for vs Bennetton. Same with Dragons v Scarlets and Kings v Cheetahs.

    Cardiff v Ospreys and Glasgow v Edinburgh could be one where both teams have most to play for.


  • Registered Users Posts: 37 Dylbag


    What way are the seedings for the Hcup determined. Is it a combined league from before or after playoffs? If it’s before then there might be a few things to play for next weekend


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,604 ✭✭✭✭errlloyd


    It's after playoffs now I beleive. It was before originally.


  • Registered Users Posts: 11,719 ✭✭✭✭Eod100


    Cardiff v Ospreys a shootout for 4th place in conference A so.


  • Registered Users Posts: 3,992 ✭✭✭Cosmo Kramer


    More talk in SA of the Pro 14 becoming the Pro 16 with the Pumas and Griquas joing up within the next two years. An Irish conference, a Welsh conference, a South African conference and a Scots/Italian one seems to be the plan. Top 8 teams would then go forward to the playoffs (presumably with a maximum of two teams per country).

    Money talks as ever, but you'd wonder how South African rugby could consider the efforts of the Cheetas and the Kings to be such a success that they want to get another two teams involved. Would also affect Irish rugby badly if only two Irish sides could make the post season out of eight qualifying teams (compared to four Irish sides in the last six this year).


  • Registered Users Posts: 7,047 ✭✭✭Bazzo


    I don't believe for a second that'll happen


  • Subscribers Posts: 41,280 ✭✭✭✭sydthebeat


    More talk in SA of the Pro 14 becoming the Pro 16 with the Pumas and Griquas joing up within the next two years. An Irish conference, a Welsh conference, a South African conference and a Scots/Italian one seems to be the plan. Top 8 teams would then go forward to the playoffs (presumably with a maximum of two teams per country).

    Money talks as ever, but you'd wonder how South African rugby could consider the efforts of the Cheetas and the Kings to be such a success that they want to get another two teams involved. Would also affect Irish rugby badly if only two Irish sides could make the post season out of eight qualifying teams (compared to four Irish sides in the last six this year).

    Irfu would and should never agree to a situation like that.

    It could possibly end up like the super 18 rugby of a few seasons back... Where there is an overall table for conference winners and then wildcard European spots.

    The Welsh would love this though.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 45,433 ✭✭✭✭thomond2006


    Super Rugby adopted a contrived system of playoff places spread across countries and it was a disaster.


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