Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

And what is Hoey saying ?

There are very few people who I have on effective mute. She is one of them.

So they have to hold MEP elections. That itself will provide some amount of fury on the doorstops

So if there is a deal for an extension then why have the text not being forthcoming an hour after Donald tusk tweeted there is a deal ? Is there been a fly in the soup ?

Deleted User wrote: »

Macron was apparently "starkly alone" in the discussion and lost the respect of many diplomats according to the Guardian. Will be interesting if more comes out about that.

Can't believe this is gonna drag on until October. It feels like a messy amount of time. I guess Tory-Labour compromise can end for a while, and May will probably be replaced by some Brexiteer.

I would not put too much stock in a UK papers take on what happens at EU level.

Given that, as we all know, a new bit of jargon needs to be invented for everything Brexit related, I am going to start calling the end of October extension the "Spookstension".

I will also accept "scarestension" or "Frankenstension".

I said to people the morning of the referendum result that Brexit wouldn't happen, the permanent Govt in Whitehall would turn their not inconsiderable might against it and that would be that.

Today was the day I always expected. It might take another election or more likely now a second referendum on a version of the crap deal, just for optics and to make it official, but forget Halloween as being significant, within 2 or 3 months it will already be as redundant a milestone as 29/03 or 12/04.

The consequences of the UK leaving the EU, i.e. a massive loss of influence, involvement and economic activity and really the probable end of the UK as an entity are now clear, the rest is just political back peddling to save a few skins.

So Macron is the new target of ire, replacing the backstop, the divorce bill and Leo Varadkar.

The UK created this mess. Still lacks the self awareness to accept it.

Six months is enough to organise a referendum. It is more than adequate for an election. I wonder if Corbyn is planning for another vote of no confidence.

The UK was told it would have to present a credible plan for a long term extension, which they did not do.

With that in mind, 6 months seems like a reasonably good outcome. It might focus the minds more than a 12 month one. With a year long one, I think Brexit would leave the agenda, slip down the headlines, be relatively forgotten about until autumn. With a 6 month deadline, aren’t they kind of forced to make certain decisions much quicker- ie general election, 2nd referendum etc, as the window for these is tight.

otnomart wrote:

12 months would have been much better for us (the EU) to take Brexit off our agenda for a while and focus on our other priorities. It was what the majority of the EU 27 wanted last night.

But Macron has a point. This has to end one way or another and six months is more than enough time for the UK to decide what it wants; if that involves the disintegration of the Tories and re-alignment of British party politics, then so be it.

Its also enough time for businesses to get their house in order on supply chain logistics.

Calina wrote: »

So Macron is the new target of ire, replacing the backstop, the divorce bill and Leo Varadkar..

Why would they be angry with Macron? He was the only one who wanted to give the UK what they requested.

What are the EUs conditions for allowing the extension (other than eu parl elections?)

correct horse battery staple wrote: »

They could be playing good cop bad cop with UK

You can't play good cop, bad cop, when you have to come to a consensus or collective decision.

No, they really are arguing among themselves. Macron (and others) have reasons for preferring a short extension; Merkel (and others) have reasons for preferring a long extension; and they all have to deal with the fact that they disagree.

But what's striking here is the way they negotiate their differences. They meet; they talk; they listen to one another (this bit is key); they hammer it out; there's a bit of give and take; they arrive at a decision everyone can live with, which may (as this time) involve split-the-difference compromise, or may involve some people giving some desire or ambition in the interests of arriving at a common position. The EU -27 have done this again and again throughout the Brexit process.

What's really, really striking, though, is that within the UK the contending factions seem absolutely incapable of doing this, or even of recognising the process when it's demonstrated for them by the EU-27. Every time this happens, the UK press are full of stories about the EU being about to splinter; someone-or-other is going to ride to the rescue of Brexit and force the EU to give Britain what it is entitled to; Ireland is about to be thrown under a bus; yadda, yadda. No, guys, you're misreading this completely. This isn't splintering and division; this is how collective, collaborative, consensus decision-making works. You need to learn how to do this.

Akrasia wrote: »

What are the EUs conditions for allowing the extension (other than eu parl elections?)

There are several:

- "This further extension cannot be allowed to undermine the regular functioning of the EU and its institutions."

- The UK will remain a member state until withdrawal, with full rights and obligations (including, as you point out, the obligation to conduct elections).

- The UK commits to act in a constructive and responsible manner throughout the extennsion period in accordance with the duty of sincere co-operation

- The UK is expected to fulfil this commitment, and its Treaty obligations generally, in a manner that reflects its situation as a withdrawing member state.

- The UK will facilitate the acheivement of the Union's tasks and refrain from any measure which could jeopardise the attainment of the Union's objectives.

- There will be no re-opening of the Withdrawal Agreement. The UK will not make unilateral commitments, statements or acts incompatiable with the letter and spirit of the WA. The UK will not hamper the implementation of the WA.

- The extension will not be used to negotiate the future relationship

- EuCo will review progress in June 2019.

So I see junker and tusk gave a press conference but did Theresa May give one at some point over night ?

I was just thinking that if it was Ireland, (or any other 'small' country), that was behaving like the Brits, they would have long since been booted out the EU door and told not to come back anytime soon.
The EU have been far too lenient with the UK. They should be thinking far more about the long term good of the EU and not the short term damage that the UK can do, and are doing.