Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

niallers1 · 08-04-2019 11:05PM

rolion wrote: »

@Barry
F I T ... !?

Do you know something we all don't know !!???

There is a microgeneration bill from Sinn Fein at stage 3 at the moment.
If FG or FF don't object to it then we could see a F.I.T. in the next year or so. I suspect FG or FF will block it though as they won't want Sinn Fein getting credit for it.

wexfordman2 · 08-04-2019 11:15PM

barryleonard79 wrote: »

Thanks for this i'll have to go back and get more details on option 1, measurement and verification is important. The middle quotes are crazy high.

I actually have a triple coil cylinder already installed and have a spare coil ready to connect up a solar thermal system, i'm wondering would it be better to get this done rather than dumping energy into cylinder. With the FIT tariff coming down the line exporting excess might be the best option?

Don't dismiss the last quote. I would go back to both and get a price for comparable sized systems.

So for example.ole, ask both for a quote for

4kwp solar.
2.5 or 5kwh battery
Eddi diverter

Then you have a benchmark and a comparison.

Others may advise you better than me in the dimensioning of your system, but I would aim for 4kwp solar as a minimum if budget and design allows it.

n97 mini · 09-04-2019 12:44PM

niallers1 wrote: »

There is a microgeneration bill from Sinn Fein at stage 3 at the moment.
If FG or FF don't object to it then we could see a F.I.T. in the next year or so. I suspect FG or FF will block it though as they won't want Sinn Fein getting credit for it.

After more than a year the bill is only at the third stage in the Dáil. It probably will be at least another year to get through all stages of the Dáil and Seanad.

And that's only the beginning. The Bill states the Minister must legislate. That will only start when once the Bill is enacted.

I would say FIT is at least 4 years away, unless there's some sort of miracle.

n97 mini · 09-04-2019 12:59PM

barryleonard79 wrote: »

Quote 1: Supply and fit of 4kw solar pv system with monocrystalline panels.5 kW Solis hybrid inverter with 1 2.2 kWh pylontec battery and 1 immersion division unit, commission and certify for seai grant. I believe these are Q Cell make. Cost €9000 minus grant €5,200

Assuming you have electricity at 20c per unit and you're sourcing 100% of your electricity from solar, your payback time on that is 8.3 years.

If you get an EV, solar won't be much help as a 2.2kwh battery can't charge a car with a 30kwh battery (based on the assumption that the car is away from home Mon-Fri at least and can't charge directly from solar).

My stats are similar to your own. 3700 units a year, and we already have an EV that gets charged on Nightsaver. I've been monitoring my electricity usage over the last 10 days or so, and have concluded that just covering the baseload (i.e. the constant use) of 200w to 400w would require 2 x 300w panels and a suitable inverter. Payback will be possibly about 3 years.

Beyond that the payback just gets longer and longer, especially if a Lithium battery is added. So I plan to add a battery charger/inverter and Lead Acid batteries before I install more solar panels. That should cover the baseload into the evenings when the sun is gone down. For me something like 4kw of panels would only make sense with a FIT.

AidenL · 09-04-2019 01:30PM

I'm totally confused by PV from reading this thread. We use around 8600 kWh per annum. Around 1700 euros including Vat.

I guess bottom line is, there's quite a long payback, even with the grant, and that its the battery cost which is increasing the payback time?

I haven't even had my quotes yet, and I'm wondering is it worth my while. Based on the poster above, even with 100% self sufficiency, its a long payback.

Are we looking at a case where, its not financially sensible, but we do it for the good of the environment?

If anyone has the same consumption as we do, and can give me a real world example of a change in bills since PV was installed, I'd appreciate it - it would help my decision making process.

Consumption is 24kWh per day. So can 5 or 6kw on the roof, with a battery, make us reasonably self sufficient?

antoinolachtnai · 09-04-2019 02:08PM

AidenL wrote: »

I'm totally confused by PV from reading this thread. We use around 8600 kWh per annum. Around 1700 euros including Vat.

I guess bottom line is, there's quite a long payback, even with the grant, and that its the battery cost which is increasing the payback time?

I haven't even had my quotes yet, and I'm wondering is it worth my while. Based on the poster above, even with 100% self sufficiency, its a long payback.

Are we looking at a case where, its not financially sensible, but we do it for the good of the environment?

If anyone has the same consumption as we do, and can give me a real world example of a change in bills since PV was installed, I'd appreciate it - it would help my decision making process.

Consumption is 24kWh per day. So can 5 or 6kw on the roof, with a battery, make us reasonably self sufficient?

Why do you think that being self sufficient will be good for the environment? It may not be. The distribution and transmission infrastructure has to be paid for no matter what.

You can get environmentally friendly renewable electricity without spending thousands of euros up-front. You will pay a premium for it but it is there.

In the end, if you use a lot of electricity during the day you will get some sort of payback on this stuff.

If you want to protect the environment when you use electricity, another option would be to buy renewable electricity and minimize electricity consumption at peak times and when the wind is low.

niallers1 · 09-04-2019 02:20PM

Hi AidenL, Forgive me if I'm making the wrong assumptions. I don't know your circumstances so I'll presume the worst. Apologies in advance

8600 Kwh is more than twice the average household usage. Have you looked at some usage changes like tunring off items on standby when not using, turning off lights in rooms not occupied, Using LED lighting. Sounds like you would benefit from a night rate meter

You will not get self sufficient with Solar PV alone but you will get an excellent contribution. You will have to use the grid no matter what.
Winter (Mid october to Mid Feb )you might only get 3kwh average a day with a 5kw system.
From Mid Feb to Mid october you will get alot of solar and cover a sizable chunk of your requirements on average. Some days you'll have too much and other you might only get a third of your requirements. Battery will even it out. In my case I also have them east west which coincides with our highest usage times.

if you do get solar PV and battery you will still need to be smart with the way you use it. stagger appliances such as washing machine and dishwasher by using the delay start and not use while using the electric over/hob.

phester28 · 09-04-2019 02:58PM

@ Niallers. I am curious to your setup. When I was looking into solar my limitation was that my south facing roof I could probably only fit 2 panels (maybe 3 at a push and depending on regs) You mention east and west facing. Are you able to tell what these produce and until what time. My East facing has sun until maybe 1.00 and West starts to get it about an hour or so later.

Do you parallel 3 strings into your inverter

unkel · 09-04-2019 03:30PM

You need an inverter that can take two strings. Many modern inverters can, like the Solis range (except the minis). The inverter can then maximise the efficiency of both strings independently. You would have all your west facing panels in series in one string and your east facing panels in series in another string

With an east / west setup you have less production at maximum level than south facing, but your production is more spread over the day. Which means it's more useful. With PV panels being as cheap as they are now, I'd say east / west would be the ideal setup. Superior to south facing

Even north facing panels can be considered. Quentingargan has shown here before that if the pitch of your roof is not too steep, in Ireland north facing panels produce about half of what south facing panels produce (and both east and west are somewhere between these)

niallers1 · 09-04-2019 03:32PM

phester28 wrote: »

@ Niallers. I am curious to your setup. When I was looking into solar my limitation was that my south facing roof I could probably only fit 2 panels (maybe 3 at a push and depending on regs) You mention east and west facing. Are you able to tell what these produce and until what time. My East facing has sun until maybe 1.00 and West starts to get it about an hour or so later.

Do you parallel 3 strings into your inverter

My main usage is in the morning and the late afternoon. Especially the late afternoon. This also coincides when the sun is in the west so east/west matches my usage patern .
You do not get as much kwh as a south facing array but then again south facing wouldn't be as usful to me as I am usually not using much at midday.
South facing is good when you have a feed in tariff. we don't have a feed in tariff in Ireland.
Sun up til sun down you will produce with an east west array. That's the way the sun moves. east to west. It's like having a tracker:D

From just after 2pm the west is more dominant and the east begins to peter out from then. At Miday, both sides are producing well from March.

I have a 4.2kw solar PV. I expect I'll get about 3300kwh over the year with an east west array (75-80%). You'd get about 4200 kwh if it was south facing.

The array is on two strings. One for east and one for west. 5kw Solis Hybrid inverter

unkel · 09-04-2019 03:47PM

niallers1 wrote: »

I have a 4.2kw solar PV. I expect I'll get about 3200kwh over the year with an east west array (75-80%). You'd get about 4200 kwh if it was south facing.

And it could very well be that with no battery or a fairly small one like in your situation, that you use 80% of the production with east/west but only 40% with south.

And even if we do get a FIT at some stage, the tariff might be variable with electricity produced between 11AM and 4PM being worth very little. This is speculation of course, but imho quite a likely scenario in about 5-10 years time

AidenL · 09-04-2019 05:41PM

No problem at all. I'll try to fill in some more background info.

House is about 2500 sq feet and its very much full of low energy lightbulbs and A rated appliances, but very gadget laden. There is only two of us in the house, but we would have for example 5 Sky Q boxes, a 28 Terrabyte server, and a lot of home entertainment displays etc. Its a smart home, with a Control 4 automation system, security cams, networked video recording, cloud uploads etc.

So the base load is probably high. There's too much stuff to be turning on and off, as opposed to standby, and the central control wouldn't work if we did that.

I probably shouldn't have said self sufficient, but id be hoping for a decent reduction on the bill. maybe night rate should be the start anyway. I'll organize when I'm switching next time.

niallers1 wrote: »

Hi AidenL, Forgive me if I'm making the wrong assumptions. I don't know your circumstances so I'll presume the worst. Apologies in advance

8600 Kwh is more than twice the average household usage. Have you looked at some usage changes like tunring off items on standby when not using, turning off lights in rooms not occupied, Using LED lighting. Sounds like you would benefit from a night rate meter

You will not get self sufficient with Solar PV alone but you will get an excellent contribution. You will have to use the grid no matter what.
Winter (Mid october to Mid Feb )you might only get 3kwh average a day with a 5kw system.
From Mid Feb to Mid october you will get alot of solar and cover a sizable chunk of your requirements on average. Some days you'll have too much and other you might only get a third of your requirements. Battery will even it out. In my case I also have them east west which coincides with our highest usage times.

if you do get solar PV and battery you will still need to be smart with the way you use it. stagger appliances such as washing machine and dishwasher by using the delay start and not use while using the electric over/hob.

unkel · 09-04-2019 05:52PM

AidenL wrote: »

maybe night rate should be the start anyway. I'll organize when I'm switching next time.

For anyone with a high base load, night rate is a no brainer. You'll save yourself a small fortune. You don't need to wait until you are switching either. Ring your electricity provider and they'll contact ESB networks to come replace the meter. Costs nothing, but your yearly standing fee will go up by about €50 and your day rate will go up by about 1c/kWh but your night rate will be about half what you pay now...

Silent Running · 09-04-2019 06:07PM

unkel wrote: »

For anyone with a high base load, night rate is a no brainer. You'll save yourself a small fortune. You don't need to wait until you are switching either. Ring your electricity provider and they'll contact ESB networks to come replace the meter. Costs nothing, but your yearly standing fee will go up by about €50 and your day rate will go up by about 1c/kWh but your night rate will be about half what you pay now...

Waiting until change time is a bad move. It'll cause a delay at changeover. Get it done ahead of making a supplier change, you'll be glad you did.

AidenL · 09-04-2019 06:37PM

unkel wrote: »

For anyone with a high base load, night rate is a no brainer. You'll save yourself a small fortune. You don't need to wait until you are switching either. Ring your electricity provider and they'll contact ESB networks to come replace the meter. Costs nothing, but your yearly standing fee will go up by about €50 and your day rate will go up by about 1c/kWh but your night rate will be about half what you pay now...

Silent Running wrote: »

Waiting until change time is a bad move. It'll cause a delay at changeover. Get it done ahead of making a supplier change, you'll be glad you did.

On my list to do tomorrow. I was worried it would tie me into a new contract.

Thanks for the tip.

n97 mini · 09-04-2019 06:49PM

AidenL wrote: »

On my list to do tomorrow. I was worried it would tie me into a new contract.

Thanks for the tip.

You may even already have the meter. Depends on when your house was built. If you have a digital meter with R1 and R2 rates then it's only a matter of changing your billing.

AidenL · 09-04-2019 07:23PM

n97 mini wrote: »

You may even already have the meter. Depends on when your house was built. If you have a digital meter with R1 and R2 rates then it's only a matter of changing your billing.

1992 house, it seems to be an olde worlde meter !

n97 mini · 09-04-2019 09:51PM

AidenL wrote: »

1992 house, it seems to be an olde worlde meter !

Ah ok. 1992 is a bit too old.

AidenL · 10-04-2019 06:48PM

Ok, so I called Energia today about a night saver meter. They did their best to put me off it.

I ran a quick check last night, from 10.30am to 7.30 am, used 6.5 units on the meter. Thats just about 25% of our daily usage. That didn't include dishwasher or washing machine overnight.

So does that sound a sensible use case for a night saver meter?

wexfordman2 · 10-04-2019 06:50PM

AidenL wrote: »

Ok, so I called Energia today about a night saver meter. They did their best to put me off it.

I ran a quick check last night, from 10.30am to 7.30 am, used 6.5 units on the meter. Thats just about 25% of our daily usage. That didn't include dishwasher or washing machine overnight.

So does that sound a sensible use case for a night saver meter?

You would need to.factor in hiw much extra power you could put over to night rate. If you are getting a battery then during winter months you would charge it at that rate.

There is an extra levy for the meter as well

niallers1 · 10-04-2019 06:51PM

AidenL wrote: »

Ok, so I called Energia today about a night saver meter. They did their best to put me off it.

I ran a quick check last night, from 10.30am to 7.30 am, used 6.5 units on the meter. Thats just about 25% of our daily usage. That didn't include dishwasher or washing machine overnight.

So does that sound a sensible use case for a night saver meter?

I think if you use 25% every night then it will be worth it.
If you ever go down the E.V. route and charge from home then it will be vital to have a night rate meter assuming smart meters are not rolled out by then.

unkel · 10-04-2019 07:55PM

Average house (without EV) uses 3.5MWh per year. If you use 25% on the night rate of 8c and 75% on the day rate at 17c on a normal meter and 18c on a night meter, you break even:

3500 * 17c = 2625 * 18c + 875 * 8c + €50 (extra standing charge per year)

If you get an EV, or even just run appliances at the night rate time on purpose some of the time, you are in for serious savings with a night rate meter.

AidenL · 10-04-2019 08:57PM

unkel wrote: »

Average house (without EV) uses 3.5MWh per year. If you use 25% on the night rate of 8c and 75% on the day rate at 17c on a normal meter and 18c on a night meter, you break even:

3500 * 17c = 2625 * 18c + 875 * 8c + €50 (extra standing charge per year)

If you get an EV, or even just run appliances at the night rate time on purpose some of the time, you are in for serious savings with a night rate meter.

8.6MWh here per annum. I guess it’s still pro rata though.

unkel · 10-04-2019 09:03PM

Nope at 8.6MWh you save about €80 on night rate with a 75/25 split. That's before you run anything at the night rate on purpose (saving over 50% on your electricity for charging EV, running dishwasher, washing machine, dryer, etc.) No brainer, man, get that meter changed

barryleonard79 · 10-04-2019 10:24PM

rolion wrote: »

@Barry
F I T ... !?

Do you know something we all don't know !!???

This is definitely coming down the tracks even if we fudge it the EU has approved it. I’m still gooey it could be next year but may be closer to 2020.

barryleonard79 · 10-04-2019 10:35PM

antoinolachtnai wrote: »

Why do you think that being self sufficient will be good for the environment? It may not be. The distribution and transmission infrastructure has to be paid for no matter what.

You can get environmentally friendly renewable electricity without spending thousands of euros up-front. You will pay a premium for it but it is there.

In the end, if you use a lot of electricity during the day you will get some sort of payback on this stuff.

If you want to protect the environment when you use electricity, another option would be to buy renewable electricity and minimize electricity consumption at peak times and when the wind is low.

Ireland’s renewable mix last year in total was 31%. You can’t buy 100% renewable energy in Ireland. Utilities are purchasing what’s called “guarantees of origin” from renewable projects such as Norwegian hydro projects. It’s a complete joke to say the are 100% renewable.

During the hot summer I think almost 90% of our energy mix was from gas, there was no wind and I think Moneypoint was down as the turbines were out of action. Now if I had solar I could have saved even a small amount of fossil fuel. Also remember that it takes generally 2.5 Kw’s to get 1kW to your house. I would imagine this isn’t the case when generating on your own roof. It’s not all about payback.

Energy is used to make and transport panels but even factoring that in they still save energy over there lifetime.

SBSwords · 11-04-2019 04:59PM

barryleonard79 wrote: »

Thanks for this i'll have to go back and get more details on option 1

Could I ask you to PM me the name of option 1 many thanks

antoinolachtnai · 11-04-2019 11:13PM

barryleonard79 wrote: »

Ireland’s renewable mix last year in total was 31%. You can’t buy 100% renewable energy in Ireland. Utilities are purchasing what’s called “guarantees of origin” from renewable projects such as Norwegian hydro projects. It’s a complete joke to say the are 100% renewable.

Why? What is wrong with Norwegian hydropower? A lot of these GoOs come from GB too, I believe.

What makes you you doubt that every GoO corresponds to renewable electricity generated?

During the hot summer I think almost 90% of our energy mix was from gas, there was no wind and I think Moneypoint was down as the turbines were out of action. Now if I had solar I could have saved even a small amount of fossil fuel. Also remember that it takes generally 2.5 Kw’s to get 1kW to your house. I would imagine this isn’t the case when generating on your own roof. It’s not all about payback.

Energy is used to make and transport panels but even factoring that in they still save energy over there lifetime.

That is all true. It is worth remembering that summer peak demand is just not that high.

The case is equally good for commercial PV, with commercial PV having the benefit that the capital costs are lower.

SBSwords · 12-04-2019 04:04PM

Very interested in going down the Solar PV route. I've read quite a bit of this thread - but I'll be honest I'm still a bit confused when I put it all together!.

Apologies if this is not the right place for this sort of query.

I've got a ordinary semi-d, hipped roof, back is south facing. Combi boiler - so no hot water storage. Imported a Phev and switched to night saver back at halloween - just shy of 6 months ago. Moved some of our electricity usage to nightsaver & will keep that up. House is occupied most of the day so this could be moved back if made sense with Solar PV. Phev is not there during the day however.

Looking at our usage for the just shy of 6months - 2,700kwh - split 1,500 day (€0.16 incl VAT), 1,200 night (€0.08 incl VAT). So maybe roughly 10 units during day, 8 at night.

I've got a quote from a Solar PV installer for a 3kw system with 5kw battery.

€11,400 (incl VAT) minus SEAI grant €3,100 = €8.300:
- 10 x 300w sharp solar panels - split over back roof & side roof 16.5m2 total
- Sonnen eco.9.53 Hybrid 5kw battery
- Expected typical generation 2,700 - 3,000kwh/y
- Expected savings €540-€600/y (based on 0.20c per kwh incl VAT)

Leaving aside the quote even - I get stuck. Is this the right size installation for my needs? would smaller be better? does it just not stack up now - but would if prices fell/grants increased/fit came about.

thanks in advance!

wexfordman2 · 12-04-2019 04:10PM

SBSwords wrote: »

Very interested in going down the Solar PV route. I've read quite a bit of this thread - but I'll be honest I'm still a bit confused when I put it all together!.

Apologies if this is not the right place for this sort of query.

I've got a ordinary semi-d, hipped roof, back is south facing. Combi boiler - so no hot water storage. Imported a Phev and switched to night saver back at halloween - just shy of 6 months ago. Moved some of our electricity usage to nightsaver & will keep that up. House is occupied most of the day so this could be moved back if made sense with Solar PV. Phev is not there during the day however.

Looking at our usage for the just shy of 6months - 2,700kwh - split 1,500 day (€0.16 incl VAT), 1,200 night (€0.08 incl VAT). So maybe roughly 10 units during day, 8 at night.

I've got a quote from a Solar PV installer for a 3kw system with 5kw battery.

€11,400 (incl VAT) minus SEAI grant €3,100 = €8.300:
- 10 x 300w sharp solar panels - split over back roof & side roof 16.5m2 total
- Sonnen eco.9.53 Hybrid 5kw battery
- Expected typical generation 2,700 - 3,000kwh/y
- Expected savings €540-€600/y (based on 0.20c per kwh incl VAT)

Leaving aside the quote even - I get stuck. Is this the right size installation for my needs? would smaller be better? does it just not stack up now - but would if prices fell/grants increased/fit came about.

thanks in advance!

Price is ridiculously high, tell em to deck off.

For 600 euro more, I got a 6kwp solar, 5kwh battery, eddi hot water diverter, essential load wiring, and ber included. Your person quoting you is overcharging you by thousands, and on that basis alone I would refuse to deal with them

Domestic solar PV quotes 2018

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