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An Taisce Green Schools

1…7891012

Comments

  • #332
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,072 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    gozunda wrote: »
    Well It would be great if you could actually explain why you believe these two particular papers are the solutions as you understand them and as was asked that

    You asked for peer-reviewed research, I provided as such.
    If you can't be arsed to read it that is not my issue.

    Possible solutions are in these papers.

    Btw Link dumping - doesn't make for a discussion. Especially considering the second reference is also behind a Pay to View firewall ...

    This is glorious. You ask for links, I give them but that is link dumping.:pac::pac:


  • #333
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,072 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    gozunda wrote: »

    I'd also suggest you take a more detailed look at the money and investment by China in Brazil. It makes some chilling reading for the fate of the environment and wildlife there. We dont have a look in tbh.

    As I said, Brazilian beef is probably the worst beef there is from an environmental point of view.
    However, again it's like being the thinnest kid at fat camp, Irish beef is not squeaky clean.


  • #334
    emaherx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,681 ✭✭✭emaherx


    markodaly wrote: »
    It is also proving to be immensely damaging to the environment. Our wildlife is being destroyed bit by bit, because of agriculture.

    There are better ways, but some don't want to recognise their own part in it.



    As I mentioned the airline industry is and was in the spotlight. The chairman of IAG, Willie Walsh wants to implement a plan to reduce emissions from airplanes by 50% by 2050. What are the IFA and board bia doing and proposing? Lobbying the government to stop carbon taxes.

    Your example is whataboutery.
    _Brian wrote:

    Extensive farming of animals is tue solution where we sequester more carbon than produce while in parallel produce superior animal based products that people love and want.

    Ah, more livestock is the solution.... got it.
    I await you referencing a scientific paper with that solution.

    Extensive definition when applied to Agriculture:
    (of agriculture) obtaining a relatively small crop from a large area with a minimum of capital and labour.
    "extensive farming techniques"

    🌈 🌈 🌈 🌈



  • #335
    markodaly
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,072 ✭✭✭✭markodaly


    _Brian wrote: »
    Irish farming has had successful environmental improvment schemes going back as far as Reps1 a few decades ago, encouraging tree planting and margins at open water courses.
    Current Glas scheme still builds on that principle but includes options for bees, bats, bird boxes, hectares of wild bird cover. There are strict hedge rules where anything removed must be replanted in same distance.

    Irish farming has been working environment measures, carbon emissions relating specifically to agriculture is in research stages with Teagasc our national governmental body, and we are awaiting that outcome. Perhaps you could move on and harass them for a while.

    I guarantee their solution will not be an end to meat and dairy farming so it’s unlikely to satisfy v and v moaners.

    I’ve said before, animal farming is being incorrectly calculated and part of the Teagasc research, in conjunction with other major European countries is to quantify our carbon sequestration figures to make a proper reflection.

    Excluding reductions in dairy and meat because that’s your real addenda here perhaps you could give opinions on solutions regarding carbon emission reduction.


    Cearly they are not doing enough.

    http://www.antaisce.org/articles/bombshell-for-irish-beef
    New data published by the United Nations Food and Agriculture Organisation (FAO) reveal that Ireland is the most carbon-intensive beef producer in Europe, and ranks as Europe’s third highest on emissions from its dairy sector.

    This revelation, which emerged recently from the FAO’s Global Livestock Environmental Assessment Model (GLEAM), whose methodology examines the full life cycle impact of food production, will come as a bombshell to Ireland’s Agri-industrial sector, which has long argued, using outdated 2004 data, that Irish beef and dairy is among the most efficient in the EU in terms of emissions.

    As for solution zzzzz, again I have linked numerous peer-reviewed studies above and previously.

    Regardless, it won't be me or you deciding this, it will be the EU and their stick is quite broad and powerful indeed.


  • #336
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,411 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    markodaly wrote: »
    Cearly they are not doing enough.

    http://www.antaisce.org/articles/bombshell-for-irish-beef



    As for solution zzzzz, again I have linked numerous peer-reviewed studies above and previously.

    Regardless, it won't be me or you deciding this, it will be the EU and their stick is quite broad and powerful indeed.

    And yet again I’ll point out that current measurement is incorrect as it doesn’t include sequestration through soils, this is a focus for a cross European group including Teagasc, once quantified I expect very different numbers.

    So just bluster and no suggested solutions ?


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  • #337
    Panch18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,467 ✭✭✭Panch18


    markodaly wrote: »
    It is also proving to be immensely damaging to the environment. Our wildlife is being destroyed bit by bit, because of agriculture.

    There are better ways, but some don't want to recognise their own part in it.



    As I mentioned the airline industry is and was in the spotlight. The chairman of IAG, Willie Walsh wants to implement a plan to reduce emissions from airplanes by 50% by 2050. What are the IFA and board bia doing and proposing? Lobbying the government to stop carbon taxes.

    Your example is whataboutery.

    .

    So what exactly is Willie Walsh’s plan to reduce airplane emissions by 50%??

    Is he going to cut the number of flights by 50%??


  • #338
    Panch18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,467 ✭✭✭Panch18


    By the way Markodaly you might want to do some research and see what Irish agri has achieved over the past years and what the plan is for the future

    Because clearly you don’t seem to know about it!!


  • #339
    dmakc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭dmakc


    markodaly wrote: »
    https://eatforum.org/eat-lancet-commission/
    https://www.nature.com/articles/s41586-018-0594-0

    You are welcome.

    One link's biases have been well documented and report panned by independent peers. Failed to disclose numerous conflicts of interest.

    The other link behind a paywall


  • #340
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,411 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    Panch18 wrote: »
    So what exactly is Willie Walsh’s plan to reduce airplane emissions by 50%??

    Is he going to cut the number of flights by 50%??

    Comes Back to the old chestnut, this isn’t about the environment, it’s extreme veganism intolerance of a different way of life. Pure fascism.


  • #341
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,992 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    markodaly wrote: »
    You asked for peer-reviewed research, I provided as such. If you can't be arsed to read it that is not my issue. Possible solutions are in these papers.This is glorious. You ask for links, I give them but that is link dumping.:

    More bs answers from you. This is what was asked:
    Perhaps you should tell us what these "better ways" are then as you appear to be an expert in agriculture. I await you referencing a scientific paper with that solution

    You will note a) that you tell us what your better ways are and b) that you provide a reference to same. Thst is NOT asking for you to do a link dump and run btw lol.

    But then I expected little else. Prove me wrong.

    Btw the second link is a behind a pay to view wall. How the feck do you expect any to read that?


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  • #342
    mayota
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,582 ✭✭✭mayota


    On Newstalk now.


  • #343
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,059 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Newstalk discussion right now - your man Joe Healy is at the table.

    https://ieradio.org/newstalk/


  • #344
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,411 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    I have one question I’d like an honest answer to.

    If two things were proven in the morning;
    1. meat and dairy farming do not disproportionately damage the environment over growing crops like soy.
    2. Good omnivore and vegan diets are equally healthy

    Would vegetarians and vegans then be happy to live alongside farmers farming animals for meat and dairy as is done today, without the need to actively promote their views over the views of farmers and meat eaters ?


  • #345
    dmakc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭dmakc


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    Newstalk discussion right now - your man Joe Healy is at the table.

    https://ieradio.org/newstalk/

    Can't listen, can someone give a general overview of how it went please?


  • #346
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    Pat says it's Transport - lol! It's cows belching and don't let anybody tell you otherwise.

    ****



  • #347
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,992 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    markodaly wrote: »
    As I said, Brazilian beef is probably the worst beef there is from an environmental point of view.
    However, again it's like being the thinnest kid at fat camp, Irish beef is not squeaky clean.

    Is it really? Lol. Is that like you claiming you eat meat twice a day 7 days a week and then link dumping the now discredited EAT-lancet report where you are supposed to eat only half a meatball a day and a second link that is stuck behind a pay per view paywall with no explanation provided for that either? :D:D:D:D

    Tbh your all your comments to this point have been a masive load of baloney. The highlight was when you suggest people should chew high carbon footprint imported raw soybeans instead of locally produced milk as a source of calcium lol. And as such exposed as nothing more than stupid attempts at wind up which bear as much semblence to the truth as someone being unable to find their rearend with both hands in broad daylight lol. But there you go again.

    You ok hun & etc :pac:


  • #348
    Suckler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,534 ✭✭✭Suckler


    dmakc wrote: »
    Can't listen, can someone give a general overview of how it went please?

    I thought Joe Healy answered quite well regarding Irish numbers V Brazilian numbers. The other speaker is a bit scattered I think on her arguments and throwing irrelevant stats when she is cornered. Pat did quite well in insisting she answer the direct question asked, she then danced around the topic.


  • #349
    Del.Monte
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 12,363 ✭✭✭✭Del.Monte


    Pat gets in a dig about hedges and trees sometimes being hazardous to his beloved motorists - you couldn't make him up.

    ****



  • #350
    dmakc
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,553 ✭✭✭dmakc


    Suckler wrote: »
    I thought Joe Healy answered quite well regarding Irish numbers V Brazilian numbers. The other speaker is a bit scattered I think on her arguments and throwing irrelevant stats when she is cornered. Pat did quite well in insisting she answer the direct question asked, she then danced around the topic.

    I haven't heard this interview but if that''s the case, seems the same Taisce tactics were employed as the man on Prime Time last Thursday. Deflecting and ignoring.

    EDIT: Assuming it was a Taisce debate here


  • #351
    Suckler
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,534 ✭✭✭Suckler


    Del.Monte wrote: »
    Pat gets in a dig about hedges and trees sometimes being hazardous to his beloved motorists - you couldn't make him up.

    I din't see that as a dig, it was more to reiterate/emphasise Joe's point.


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  • #352
    BarryD2
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,717 ✭✭✭BarryD2


    Sheep breeder wrote: »
    Just joining this now, above you ask the question how many trees do farmers sow and grow, answer they maintain the hedgerows and landscapes on their farms and take great pride and care of their farm and lands and all try to pass it on to the next generation. The one thing that us Irish are known for is the love of the land. So to say farmers are not planting in the Reps, Glas schemes and forestry all has being planted.

    Sheep are usually kept on less productive, more marginal land where ditches are kept and so on and there is greater diversity.< Mod snip>. Many ditches have been removed, the land stripped into paddocks for grass management, what ditches are left are closely cut down - it's a landscape of grassland managed on an industrial scale. You'll find huge shed complexes in places. Move the view around, there's mile after mile of same. It's a desert of sorts. These enterprises are I would think at the centre of the dairy industry, churning out milk products for export. I'd also think they may be maximum beneficiaries of EU supports. It's business but business at a cost to biodiversity etc. Not all farming lives up to the ideals you express above.


  • #353
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,411 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    _Brian wrote: »
    I have one question I’d like an honest answer to.

    If two things were proven in the morning;
    1. meat and dairy farming do not disproportionately damage the environment over growing crops like soy.
    2. Good omnivore and vegan diets are equally healthy

    Would vegetarians and vegans then be happy to live alongside farmers farming animals for meat and dairy as is done today, without the need to actively promote their views over the views of farmers and meat eaters ?

    I’d love to have some vegans or veggies answer this ?


  • #354
    Harry Palmr
    Closed Accounts Posts: 40,059 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    _Brian wrote: »
    I’d love to have some vegans or veggies answer this ?

    This is what you are up against!

    https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057970792
    (gozunda sneaking in unseen apparently)

    Vegans are ideological and that won't change until they think everyone else has changed - i.e it won't change.


  • #355
    emaherx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,681 ✭✭✭emaherx


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Sheep are usually kept on less productive, more marginal land where ditches are kept and so on and there is greater diversity. SNIP Many ditches have been removed, the land stripped into paddocks for grass management, what ditches are left are closely cut down - it's a landscape of grassland managed on an industrial scale. You'll find huge shed complexes in places. Move the view around, there's mile after mile of same. It's a desert of sorts. These enterprises are I would think at the centre of the dairy industry, churning out milk products for export. I'd also think they may be maximum beneficiaries of EU supports. It's business but business at a cost to biodiversity etc. Not all farming lives up to the ideals you express above.

    Really don't think you should be picking out individual farms and giving their direct location no matter how much you disagree with their activities.

    🌈 🌈 🌈 🌈



  • #356
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,992 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Harry Palmr wrote: »
    This is what you are up against https://www.boards.ie/vbulletin/showthread.php?t=2057970792
    (gozunda sneaking in unseen apparently)
    Vegans are ideological and that won't change until they think everyone else has changed - i.e it won't change.

    Are others not allowed to post Harry? Or does freedom of expression only work for select groups? By the same measure perhaps you are suggesting you're sneaking around the Forestry and Farming forum? But I do not see anyone expressing such sentiments here. Why do you think that is Harry?

    Tbh it's not so much that some vegans appear to be ideological as seriously delusional. See some of the comments in this thread for further detail.


  • #357
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,992 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    emaherx wrote: »
    Really don't think you should be picking out individual farms and giving their direct location no matter how much you disagree with their activities.

    GDPR?
    And not acceptable whatever anyone believes


  • #358
    _Brian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 19,411 ✭✭✭✭_Brian


    emaherx wrote: »
    Extensive definition when applied to Agriculture:
    (of agriculture) obtaining a relatively small crop from a large area with a minimum of capital and labour.
    "extensive farming techniques"

    That’s my point.


  • #359
    Panch18
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,467 ✭✭✭Panch18


    BarryD2 wrote: »
    Sheep are usually kept on less productive, more marginal land where ditches are kept and so on and there is greater diversity. snip into Google and switch to satellite view. Many ditches have been removed, the land stripped into paddocks for grass management, what ditches are left are closely cut down - it's a landscape of grassland managed on an industrial scale. You'll find huge shed complexes in places. Move the view around, there's mile after mile of same. It's a desert of sorts. These enterprises are I would think at the centre of the dairy industry, churning out milk products for export. I'd also think they may be maximum beneficiaries of EU supports. It's business but business at a cost to biodiversity etc. Not all farming lives up to the ideals you express above.

    are you out of touch with reality altogether??

    Firstly you are bang out of order to giving coordinates for a particular farm, especially when there is absolutely nothing wrong at all with that place. Do you know the farmer concerned?

    Secondly what on earth are you talking about - there is literally miles upon miles of ditches there.

    Thirdly - do you expect farmers to operate in the dark ages and not practice rotational grazing or have sheds for their livestock


  • #360
    emaherx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,681 ✭✭✭emaherx


    _Brian wrote: »
    That’s my point.

    I know that, the other poster thinks you mean the opposite.

    🌈 🌈 🌈 🌈



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  • #361
    emaherx
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2, Paid Member Posts: 6,681 ✭✭✭emaherx


    gozunda wrote: »
    GDPR?

    Feck GDPR. It's just plain wrong and the sort of thing anti farming activists do.

    🌈 🌈 🌈 🌈



This discussion has been closed.
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