AGS to allow members to wear religous and ethnic garb while on duty

ohnonotgmail · 04-04-2019 03:53PM

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Can you please Google the meaning of the word evolved. You keep using it incorrectly.

It is disappointing that i have to do this for a grown adult but hey ho.

https://www.dictionary.com/browse/evolved

I have bolded the appropriate definitions.

verb (used with object), e·volved, e·volv·ing.
to develop gradually: to evolve a scheme.
to give off or emit, as odors or vapors.
verb (used without object), e·volved, e·volv·ing.
to come forth gradually into being; develop; undergo evolution: The whole idea evolved from a casual remark.
to gradually change one's opinions or beliefs: candidates who are still evolving on the issue; an evolved feminist mom.
Biology . to develop by a process of evolution to a different adaptive state or condition: The human species evolved from an ancestor that was probably arboreal.

ohnonotgmail · 04-04-2019 03:54PM

CB19Kevo wrote: »

This is bonkers!
Uniform should be the same across the force.

We should be moving away from religion interfering with public services..

All for inclusion and diversity within the Gardai but standards need to be maintained.

The wearing of a hijab or turban does not interfere with public services.

PokeHerKing · 04-04-2019 03:57PM

ohnonotgmail wrote:

It is disappointing that i have to do this for a grown adult but hey ho.

It means to advance. Reintroducing religious doctrine at a state level is regression.

So stop saying evolved when referring to AGS regressive announcement.

AtomicHorror · 04-04-2019 03:57PM

Mooooo wrote: »

What's the percentage breakdown in the population in general?

About 64,000 Muslims and 2000 Sikhs, but only the women would be relevant in the case of Muslims, and I think mostly just men in the case of Sikhs.

Roger Hassenforder wrote: »

It is. Just not the answer you hoped for.
Im against all manifestations/expressions of faith for public servants.

(They arent being conscripted and having my secular view forced on them. They can choose not to join...)

Again, no, it does not answer my question, which was not about overt expressions, but about mandatory elements of a faith.

Would you consider it acceptable if a Catholic was required to break a mandatory aspect of their faith, overt or not, in order to join the Gardai?

Cordell · 04-04-2019 03:58PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

i look forward to the ranks of hijab clad gardai. allah knows it will make the muslim community trust the police more.

As a recent immigrant myself I find this approach detrimental to both society and immigrants. I would say it's better not to make amends to make the society fit the immigrants, but make it as easy as possible for immigrants to integrate. If I don't trust a Garda because of differences in religion and ethnicity, then the problem lies with me, not with them.

suicide_circus · 04-04-2019 03:59PM

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Presumably, most women I've met who wear hijab also wear trousers in a work environment.

bubblypop wrote: »

Why wouldn't they?

i suspect they may be immodest

04-04-2019 04:01PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

i suspect they may be immodest

Trousers?
How?

ohnonotgmail · 04-04-2019 04:02PM

PokeHerKing wrote: »

It means to advance. Reintroducing religious doctrine at a state level is regression.

So stop saying evolved when referring to AGS regressive announcement.

Nobody has reintroduced religious doctrine. I suspect you dont actually know what that means.

AtomicHorror · 04-04-2019 04:03PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

i suspect they may be immodest

Evidently the Muslim women in question don't see it that way, and I guess if they join the Gardai, they'll still consider trousers to be fine.

PokeHerKing wrote: »

The hijab or any sort of head covering predates Islam. It is used as a means of oppression against women in a lot of Muslim countries. The religion side of it just makes it easier to enforce.

Many aspects of many religions predate the religions. Every religion has elements used to oppress women. We can inform them of this, argue against religion on all reasonable fronts. At the end of the day, they still have their own choice to make. Many Muslim women are free to choose and still wear hijab. I know one family where one sister wears hijab and the other does not. They get on fine with each other and with their own parents.

suicide_circus · 04-04-2019 04:03PM

bubblypop wrote: »

Trousers?
How?

have you ever been walking and found youself behind a ban garda on the beat?

AtomicHorror · 04-04-2019 04:06PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

have you ever been walking and found youself behind a ban garda on the beat?

Please stop touching yourself.

suicide_circus · 04-04-2019 04:09PM

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Please stop touching yourself.

so you do know what im on about

AtomicHorror · 04-04-2019 04:15PM

suicide_circus wrote: »

so you do know what im on about

I get what you're implying. I've always found the AGS uniform really unflattering on everyone, but yeah, after several posts, I can now see you feel differently about it.

There's another thread you might like... Garda sacked... bonnet of the car, etc.

topper75 · 04-04-2019 04:27PM

AtomicHorror wrote: »

Please stop touching yourself.

What to do? If you cuff him it'll only make it worse.

suicide_circus · 04-04-2019 04:27PM

AtomicHorror wrote: »

I get what you're implying. I've always found the AGS uniform really unflattering on everyone, but yeah, after several posts, I can now see you feel differently about it.

There's another thread you might like... Garda sacked... bonnet of the car, etc.

haha...yeah.

point is, i dont see the "Templemore Trailer" being an acceptable look for one who cant serve the state without a hair covering.

nice_guy80 · 04-04-2019 04:28PM

Shield wrote: »

The time is ripe for Pastafarians to seek permission to wear a colander on duty.

I'd like to see an equality case taken, just for the craic

Alrigghtythen · 04-04-2019 04:35PM

They should wear the uniform properly and forget about the religious add ons.

Kivaro · 04-04-2019 04:38PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

The wearing of a hijab or turban does not interfere with public services.

Yes, it does.

It's called a uniform for a reason. It should be the same for all members of the police force.
Take for example, a Muslim from Pakistan/Kashmir living in Ireland who was a victim of an assault by a person known to them of Indian descent.
The perception by the victim (irrespective of it being right or wrong) changes immediately if the Garda arriving at the scene of the crime was dressed in a turban.

The exact opposite also holds true. An Indian victim of crime living in Ireland and their perception of a Garda arriving dressed in a hijab.

The uniform should be the same for everyone. It's ridiculous to regress back to the days of pandering to the religious elements in society.
I would like to see a substantial increase in the Gardai of all nationalities living in Ireland. It may break the current status quo of mistrust in the force.

Mr. CooL ICE · 04-04-2019 04:48PM

What if it was assault by someone with a bogger accent? If that's such an issue, then every single victim of assault is currently pretty screwed

Lefty Bicek · 04-04-2019 05:04PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

Time moves on and the country has evolved.

Token gestures do not constitute 'evolution'.

Where would that end ? Must we too have a 'Turban Victory' ?

Force Carrier · 04-04-2019 05:09PM

If Christian Gardaí get to go around wearing crucifixes this could have the unexpected double benefit of helping deal with Vampires.

Kivaro · 04-04-2019 05:23PM

Mark Rippetoe wrote: »

What if it was assault by someone with a bogger accent? If that's such an issue, then every single victim of assault is currently pretty screwed

Mark, I'm not sure if you are deliberately ignoring the contentious history of the groups that I used in my example, because the ethnicity was picked for a reason. There will be mistrust by victims due to the visual appearance of religious clothing on Gardai. This is unacceptable even if it is the case for a small number of people.

Now they are talking on RTE news about Sheikh members of the Gardai being allowed to carry the Kirpan (religious knife) with them while on duty. This is becoming absurd.

ytpe2r5bxkn0c1 · 04-04-2019 05:26PM

AtomicHorror wrote: »

"Where's your turban?" - and it'd be a genuine question.

Why? Turbans aren't compulsory for Hindus, you are perhaps mistaking them for Sikhs.

A Hindu Garda would just be in standard uniform.

PokeHerKing · 04-04-2019 05:29PM

ohnonotgmail wrote:

Nobody has reintroduced religious doctrine. I suspect you dont actually know what that means.

Ha the irony!!

One eyed Jack · 04-04-2019 05:29PM

Kivaro wrote: »

Mark, I'm not sure if you are deliberately ignoring the contentious history of the groups that I used in my example, because the ethnicity was picked for a reason. There will be mistrust by victims due to the visual appearance of religious clothing on Gardai. This is unacceptable even if it is the case for a small number of people.

Now they are talking on RTE news about Sheikh members of the Gardai being allowed to carry the Kirpan (religious knife) with them while on duty. This is becoming absurd.

And there will be greater trust in the Gardai of people from their own communities - swings and roundabouts.

As for the idea of them carrying knives, unless they plan on using them to injure a person, they’re of no danger to anyone.

beejee · 04-04-2019 05:36PM

Imagine being in india/Pakistan and you get pulled over for openly displayed alcohol (for arguments sake)

Up comes the police person, an Irish person wearing a giant shamrock on his head.

You'd instantly think "sure he knows the score with the f'd up rules in this country, I have good odds here!"

Whole idea is downright bizarre. We've become so used to bizarre here we don't see the forest for the trees anymore.

kowloon · 04-04-2019 06:00PM

judeboy101 wrote: »

Catholic ags will be allowed to wear a crucifix, you won't be able to discriminate on this rule. Pastafarian ags will be able to wear a colander. Klingon ags will be able to carry a baath'leth .

This changes everything, I'm now strongly in favour of the idea.

Beechwoodspark · 04-04-2019 06:04PM

I vary from the extremes

Either compliance to the 1950s standard

Or else

Full burka, full facial tatts, novelty moustaches, Native American headdress, leather harness, clown shoes, whatever

recedite · 04-04-2019 06:17PM

In a statement, police said the decision ”will encourage women from Muslim communities, who may previously not have seen policing as a career option, to reconsider

Muslim women aren't supposed to have careers. They don't wear hijabs at home, they only wear them when they go out in public, where strange men might try to get a look at them.

How does all that square with a female Garda breaking up a drunken brawl at midnight in Temple Bar?"
I'm thinking "the powers that be" haven't really thought this through properly. Its just a bit of pc virtue signalling nonsense.

cursai · 04-04-2019 06:20PM

If the Sikhs etc won't have to wear the hat on duty then why should the non religious Guard.

AGS to allow members to wear religous and ethnic garb while on duty

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