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AGS to allow members to wear religous and ethnic garb while on duty

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Comments

  • #242
    Yurt2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    mad muffin wrote: »

    It does strike me as odd though, how the Irish are so willing to erode their identity, their religion, their traditions. In the name of “looking progressive”


    Did you have a particular emotional attachment to the Garda hat and well trimmed mustaches before today?


    It's a minor accommodation and adjustment to the uniform for a handful of recruits that will go on to put their safety on the line for the wider community; it's not dynamiting Croagh Patrick to put up a mega-mosque.


  • #243
    Deebles McBeebles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    Mods please rename thread 'You do realise'.


  • #244
    mad muffin
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 8,034 ✭✭✭mad muffin


    Yurt! wrote: »
    Did you have a particular emotional attachment to the Garda hat and well trimmed mustaches before today?


    It's a minor accommodation and adjustment to the uniform for a handful of recruits that will go on to put their safety on the line for the wider community; it's not dynamiting Croagh Patrick to put up a mega-mosque.


    Hey it’s your country. I just live here. I’m not even a citizen.


  • #245
    PokeHerKing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,374 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    Yurt! wrote:
    It's a minor accommodation and adjustment to the uniform for a handful of recruits that will go on to put their safety on the line for the wider community; it's not dynamiting Croagh Patrick to put up a mega-mosque.


    Rome wasn't built in a day nor was it sacked in a day.

    Seriously we've taken a long time to get rid of the rules of one archaic backward religion from Irish society and now people seem to be welcoming another one in with open arms.


  • #246
    Yurt2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    PokeHerKing wrote: »
    Rome wasn't built in a day nor was it sacked in a day.

    Seriously we've taken a long time to get rid of the rules of one archaic backward religion from Irish society and now people seem to be welcoming another one in with open arms.

    Which one, Sikhism or Islam? I'm not placing a value statement on either religion - there are barmy adherents to every religion and there are level-headed adherents. Religion is part of the human condition, we're not getting rid of them by heavy-handed secularism in the French or Turkish fashion, which comes with its own set of problems.

    I'm not in favor of hegemonic expressions of any faith, and I'm not speaking in defense of the previous Catholic hegemony we had, but we live in a country where all are free to practice their faith.


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  • #247
    One eyed Jack
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,180 ✭✭✭✭One eyed Jack


    PokeHerKing wrote: »
    Rome wasn't built in a day nor was it sacked in a day.

    Seriously we've taken a long time to get rid of the rules of one archaic backward religion from Irish society and now people seem to be welcoming another one in with open arms.


    Society is evolving. It’s clearly not evolving how you would like, but the reason this initiative was introduced by AGS is because it encourages members of the communities who are living here already, to become members of AGS and further integrate into Irish society.


  • #248
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    here we go again. Muslim women should not wear the hijab because other muslim women in other countries are oppressed? Is that the strenght of your argument? Is that really the best argument you can come up with?

    Notwithstanding the strawman, its a bit more complicated than you seem to grasp.

    But i suspect you're vocal that western men opinioning hijab/burka is a barometer of womens oppression is merely poorly disguised racism, or some form of toxic patriarchy dictating what women wear. Strangely silent on the myriad Muslim womens voices railing against it.
    I could be wrong though.


  • #249
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    Yurt! wrote: »
    I'm not in favor of hegemonic expressions of any faith, and I'm not speaking in defense of the previous Catholic hegemony we had, but we live in a country where all are free to practice their faith.

    As it should be. In their own time though.


  • #250
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,147 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    Notwithstanding the strawman, its a bit more complicated than you seem to grasp.

    But i suspect you're vocal that western men opinioning hijab/burka is a barometer of womens oppression is merely poorly disguised racism, or some form of toxic patriarchy dictating what women wear. Strangely silent on the myriad Muslim womens voices railing against it.
    I could be wrong though.

    probably a bit of both. "these men over there are oppressing the women in their country by forcing them to wear an item of clothing so we should react to that by stopping women in our country from wearing the same piece of clothing. Even if they want to wear it in our country they cant because oppression and stuff".


  • #251
    RayCun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    It's really very simple.

    Women should be allowed to wear what they want.

    The women who want to wear a hijab should be allowed to.

    The women who want to wear something else should be allowed to.


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  • #252
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,147 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    RayCun wrote: »
    It's really very simple.

    Women should be allowed to wear what they want.

    The women who want to wear a hijab should be allowed to.

    The women who want to wear something else should be allowed to.

    A number of people seem to find this very simple idea very difficult to understand. It's baffling.


  • #253
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    RayCun wrote: »
    It's really very simple.

    Women should be allowed to wear what they want.

    The women who want to wear a hijab should be allowed to.

    The women who want to wear something else should be allowed to.
    full burqa?


  • #254
    AtomicHorror
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    Love this thread. "They'll be allowed to wear turbans!" "But there aren't even any Hindu gardai!".

    Nothing like strong opinions based on zero knowledge.


  • #255
    Graces7
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 32,634 ✭✭✭✭Graces7


    AtomicHorror wrote: »
    Love this thread. "They'll be allowed to wear turbans!" "But there aren't even any Hindu gardai!".

    Nothing like strong opinions based on zero knowledge.

    was wondering what the reactions would actually be to Hindu Gardai face to face...


  • #256
    Deebles McBeebles
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,969 ✭✭✭Deebles McBeebles


    Graces7 wrote: »
    was wondering what the reactions would actually be to Hindu Gardai face to face...

    A far softer reaction to some of the crap people have written here, I would guess.

    Yes Garda, no Garda, anything you say Garda.


  • #257
    RayCun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    suicide_circus wrote: »
    full burqa?

    If women want to wear a full burqa, they should be allowed to, yes.

    As part of a garda uniform, no, because it would interfere with the performance of their duties.

    (Should men be allowed wear balaclavas? Yes. Should gardai be allowed wear balaclavas? No.)


  • #258
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    ohnonotgmail wrote: »
    probably a bit of both. "these men over there are oppressing the women in their country by forcing them to wear an item of clothing so we should react to that by stopping women in our country from wearing the same piece of clothing. Even if they want to wear it in our country they cant because oppression and stuff".

    Surprisingly i was spot on so. *cough
    Notwithstanding the absolute hypocrisy of your logic, and ability to reconcile yourself with such a position, silent on womens oppression "over there", but "here", any criticism of that same patriarchy/oppression is...wait for it...racist patriatchial oppression.

    Jeez, you couldnt make this up.
    Argument reduces to "because...stuff" in case your subconscious leads you to where you wilfully wont/cant go.
    Pitiful.


  • #259
    Grayson
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 17,186 ✭✭✭✭Grayson


    iebamm2580 wrote: »
    You do realise that catholics number over a billion and some congregations have different ways of displaying their faith.

    I think you mean "Christians" as opposed to catholics. Although I should be clear that I was using catholics in the vernacular and mean Roman catholics since orthodox christians are also catholics. So maybe you mean Catholic like that.
    And I can't think of any catholic, Roman or orthodox, who is required to wear particular garb (Except for priests and nuns of course. I don't think any of us are suggesting that they're going to be joining AGS). I'd actually be interested in hearing of any you know of. And I don't think any of them are required to wear a cross.

    IF they are, once again I'd be interested in hearing about them.


  • #260
    Edgware
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,874 ✭✭✭Edgware


    Rubberchikken wrote: »
    dont Sikh police in Britain wear a turban?
    tbh it doesnt matter what the gardai wear. whats between their ears is more important than clothes and imo theres not a lot going on there.

    as you can tell i have an incredibly low opinion if our police and nothing will change that.

    Maybe when you get to secondary school you will think differently


  • #261
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    RayCun wrote: »
    Should gardai be allowed wear balaclavas? No.)

    Yet they do....


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  • #262
    Edgware
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,874 ✭✭✭Edgware


    iebamm2580 wrote: »
    You do realise that catholics number over a billion and some congregations have different ways of displaying their faith.
    You do realise Bobby Ewing was only dreaming


  • #263
    suicide_circus
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 19,801 ✭✭✭✭suicide_circus


    RayCun wrote: »
    If women want to wear a full burqa, they should be allowed to, yes.

    As part of a garda uniform, no, because it would interfere with the performance of their duties.

    (Should men be allowed wear balaclavas? Yes. Should gardai be allowed wear balaclavas? No.)
    image.jpg


  • #264
    RayCun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    Yet they do....

    In very specific circumstances. They can't wear a balaclava on regular duty.


  • #265
    Lefty Bicek
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,625 ✭✭✭Lefty Bicek


    Samuel T. Cogley wrote: »
    Turban is allowed in the UK AFAIK, looks very smart actually.

    Except when, in the interests of PC, it looks absolutely ridiculous...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/uknews/3123990/Sir-Ian-Blair-resigns-his-career-highs-and-lows.html?image=5

    It's like something from Brass Eye.

    But how about this from the Irish Times, August 2007...
    An Garda Síochána sought the advice of UK police forces and met with representatives of the approximately 1,000-strong Sikh community in Ireland before deciding that Sikh gardaí in Ireland would not wear a turban, Garda Commissioner Noel Conroy said last night. Patsy McGarry reports.

    "We consulted widely on the matter," he said.

    Speaking at the Humbert School, he also said that some UK police forces which permit uniformed Sikh colleagues to wear the turban had told Garda representatives that "if they could put the clock backwards they would like to".

    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/garda-consulted-widely-on-turban-1.958135

    We never, never learn.


  • #266
    RayCun
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 15,704 ✭✭✭✭RayCun


    Harris explained the use of a fire retardant hood by public order officers is a matter for the operational commander on the ground and it is designed to protect the safety of officers based on risk assessment.

    "However, the form of dress used at the event was not correct as it is policy that if it deemed necessary to use the hood then it should be used in tandem with a protective helmet. A directive has issued today from Deputy Commissioner, Policing and Security, to re-enforce this requirement to all personnel."
    .


  • #267
    AtomicHorror
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,888 ✭✭✭AtomicHorror


    Graces7 wrote: »
    was wondering what the reactions would actually be to Hindu Gardai face to face...

    "Where's your turban?" - and it'd be a genuine question.


  • #268
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,147 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    Surprisingly i was spot on so. *cough
    Notwithstanding the absolute hypocrisy of your logic, and ability to reconcile yourself with such a position, silent on womens oppression "over there", but "here", any criticism of that same patriarchy/oppression is...wait for it...racist patriatchial oppression.

    Jeez, you couldnt make this up.
    Argument reduces to "because...stuff" in case your subconscious leads you to where you wilfully wont/cant go.
    Pitiful.

    Both positions are patriarchal in the extreme. Oddly you cant see that. And as for being " silent on womens oppression "over there"" well this is not the thread for that. Feel free to start one and i will happily join in and condemn the oppression of muslim women in other countries. My position is entirely consistant unlike yours which is both inconsistent and hypocritical.


  • #269
    Roger Hassenforder
    Closed Accounts Posts: 8,555 ✭✭✭Roger Hassenforder


    RayCun wrote: »
    In very specific circumstances. They can't wear a balaclava on regular duty.

    Can Gardai wear a balaclava on duty?
    Yes.

    Not sure was it you making a point Gardai wear all sorts of outfits, the "uniform" is varied, so there is no uniformity. Cant have it both ways.

    (Soz if it wasnt you, but i reckon you subscribe to the view)


  • #270
    ohnonotgmail
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 41,147 ✭✭✭✭ohnonotgmail


    Lefty Bicek wrote: »
    Except when, in the interests of PC, it looks absolutely ridiculous...

    https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/picturegalleries/uknews/3123990/Sir-Ian-Blair-resigns-his-career-highs-and-lows.html?image=5

    It's like something from Brass Eye.

    But how about this from the Irish Times, August 2007...



    https://www.irishtimes.com/news/garda-consulted-widely-on-turban-1.958135

    We never, never learn.

    Time moves on and the country has evolved.


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  • #271
    Yurt2
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 9,381 ✭✭✭Yurt2


    Roger Hassenforder wrote: »
    Yet they do....


    The Commissioner came out and stated that the wearing of those hoods was incorrect in those circumstances.


    They are intended as flame retardant hoods for use in conjunction with the full riot uniform and when there is an operational need for them - not because they were embarrassed to do their job and there was students around with camera phones.


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