Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

FrancieBrady · 31-03-2019 11:19AM

Deleted User wrote: »

Once the English can't afford to subsidise the remnant of its Irish colony by over €12 billion per annum (i.e. by much more than their net EU contribution), and make no mistake but financially and politically the English will be forced to sell their Pied Noirs in Ireland out, any costs of reunification will be significantly less than people are saying. We will have no English handout of note to replace. And strategically, an all-Ireland state in the EU would win financial support from the EU. The Catholic French and Spaniards would finally have the Elizabethans surrounded!

Because it solves, so profoundly, all the problems of the UK exiting for us in the EU, then I think we in the EU will take whatever steps that are necessary to make unity an economic success at least. As an investment in the stability of the bloc, it will be huge value for money.

Spook_ie · 31-03-2019 11:21AM

Shelga wrote: »

It sounds like it will come down to: will the EU be willing to let the UK crash out with no deal, rather than granting endless extensions that gradually damage the EU long-term.

If there was no deal, how long would it be truly terrible for the UK?

Well given all the talk on here about massive food and medicine shortages one could assume a much leaner and fitter UK emerging after 6-24 months, all we need on the doorstep a new super being with no fat bastards or dependent on drugs keeping them alive ( they would all have died only leaving the fit )

Purgative · 31-03-2019 11:23AM

The A50 petition just topped 6 million and the signatures have gone up to 52 a minute.

Probably wont do much but - it ain't over till its over - and I'd love to see Leadsom have to eat it.

Spook_ie · 31-03-2019 11:28AM

Purgative wrote: »

The A50 petition just topped 6 million and the signatures have gone up to 52 a minute.

Probably wont do much but - it ain't over till its over - and I'd love to see Leadsom have to eat it.

Well considering anyone can claim the right to sign it ( I just did ) I'd be taking it with a pinch of salt anyway.

Purgative · 31-03-2019 11:31AM

Spook_ie wrote: »

Well considering anyone can claim the right to sign it ( I just did ) I'd be taking it with a pinch of salt anyway.

We appreciate your support.

Spook_ie · 31-03-2019 11:33AM

Purgative wrote: »

The A50 petition just topped 6 million and the signatures have gone up to 52 a minute.

Probably wont do much but - it ain't over till its over - and I'd love to see Leadsom have to eat it.

Unlikely to reach the 6 million without thge Russians/Chinese/Americans but the poll rate for crashing out is matching the article 50 rate.

Spook_ie · 31-03-2019 11:35AM

Purgative wrote: »

We appreciate your support.

Just to keep it balanced I also voted in the leave on the 12th petition

Purgative · 31-03-2019 11:39AM

Spook_ie wrote: »

Just to keep it balanced I also voted in the leave on the 12th petition

While you're at it maybe sign the "Make netting hedgerows a criminal offence" petition.

That one might even do some good

Irishmale0399 · 31-03-2019 11:42AM

Lads serious question here....reading a German paper and they seem to think it all up to the EU now, as:

1. TM had to get the WA through by Friday last week

2. Offer an alternative to the EU by Friday last week

Paper claims the chances the EU will allow the UK to crash out have increases dramatically since Friday......and are not sure the EU member states will accept ideas put in by the 12 April.

What is exactly true in this matter and what exactly did the EU tell them were the conditions for the 22 May extension or the 12 April end date.

FrancieBrady · 31-03-2019 11:44AM

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

Lads serious question here....reading a German paper and they seem to think it all up to the EU now, as:

1. TM had to get the WA through by Friday last week

2. Offer an alternative to the EU by Friday last week

Paper claims the chances the EU will allow the UK to crash out have increases dramatically since Friday......and are not sure the EU member states will accept ideas put in by the 12 April.

What is exactly true in this matter and what exactly did the EU tell them were the conditions for the 22 May extension or the 12 April end date.

Are they quoting any sources for this?

briany · 31-03-2019 11:44AM

Spook_ie wrote: »

Well considering anyone can claim the right to sign it ( I just did ) I'd be taking it with a pinch of salt anyway.

UK government: "When we created that petition mechanism on the Parliament website, we didn't actually expect anyone to really use the bloody thing!"

Irishmale0399 · 31-03-2019 11:46AM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

Are they quoting any sources for this?

Very simple answer....No

Headshot · 31-03-2019 11:46AM

I cannot see the EU not providing some kind of extension. The EU does not want to be responsible to no deal brexit and I hope they provide a long extension.

FrancieBrady · 31-03-2019 11:50AM

Headshot wrote: »

I cannot see the EU not providing some kind of extension. The EU does not want to be responsible to no deal brexit and I hope they provide a long extension.

TBH at this stage I think a long extension will only succeed in doing more damage to the body politic in the UK.

They are in crisis and need shock therapy I think.

Irishmale0399 · 31-03-2019 11:53AM

Headshot wrote: »

I cannot see the EU not providing some kind of extension. The EU does not want to be responsible to no deal brexit and I hope they provide a long extension.

The question here is

1. Do the EU want the UK in parliment possibly blocking things
2. Do/Are the UK want/ready to take part in EU elections

Capt'n Midnight · 31-03-2019 11:54AM

nice_guy80 wrote: »

I don't think we can afford to take NI

We've enough problems as it is

NI isn't getting better. The longer we delay the more it will cost socially and economically. The EU will help. It could cost as little as €5bn a year , cheap compared to the banking bailout.

The only difference between the economies since partition is whether it's Leinster House or Westminster making the big decisions. Before partition 90% of the manufacturing activity on the island took place in the North East. Now it's opposite.

Politically expect a backlash against the DUP when the Tories no longer need them.

As for Labour , they won't get any support from NI MP's in the foreseeable future so it's a total political liability. On the other side the SDLP took down Jim Callaghan's Labour government by abstaining from the vote of confidence. Old Labour died, Thatcher got in and the Tories ruled for 18 years. Manufacturing and mining was decimated and there was a kerfuffle over unions.

The situation there now isn't great, and this is with the DUP's billion pound bribe. Things will get worse when the Tories throw then under the bus and reverse it over them a few times.
https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/ni-accounts-for-20-of-uk-foodbank-distribution-says-manager-1-8741763

20% of the total food bank meals across the UK were given out in Northern Ireland, according to figures from the Trussel Trust, a food bank trust based in Salisbury that operates across the UK.

...
His food bank has seen a 30% increase in demand on this time last year in a year.

31-03-2019 11:58AM

Headshot wrote: »

I cannot see the EU not providing some kind of extension. The EU does not want to be responsible to no deal brexit and I hope they provide a long extension.

Under no circumstances - none at all - can the European Union be deemed responsible for any of this entirely self-inflicted British stunt. So that scapegoating of the EU for this unequivocally British-created problem can be parked in the oligarch-owned British media.

If anything, the EU has been too accommodating of English jingoists' very public "We can't believe we're not a world power anymore" humiliation.

briany · 31-03-2019 12:18PM

I believe the EU would kick the UK off the cliff, if it weren't for the huge minority of UK citizens who did vote Remain, plus the regions who voted Remain in the majority. Plus the fact that there'll be a fallout for certain neighbouring countries. Plus a no-deal Brexit gives EU opponents in the UK even more stuff to poison the well with, making future trade negotiations that much more difficult.

When you look at all the potential fallout of a no-deal Brexit, be it political, or sociological, or economic, it's hard for me to say that it would be better than, say, 21 months more uncertainty.

Franz Von Peppercorn · 31-03-2019 12:18PM

briany wrote: »

UK government: "When we created that petition mechanism on the Parliament website, we didn't actually expect anyone to really use the bloody thing!"

All it does is force a parliamentary discussion. That’s happening anyway.

WomanSkirtFan8 · 31-03-2019 12:21PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

TBH at this stage I think a long extension will only succeed in doing more damage to the body politic in the UK.

They are in crisis and need shock therapy I think.

Ansolutely agreed. I think an extremely sharp, shock of reality is what they need right now as it's seems to be the only thing that will wake them up at this stage

Mr.Nice Guy · 31-03-2019 12:26PM

Footage from Grieve's assocation meeting where he was deselected.

https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1112011627312934913

English political scene is in a very poor place right now and it will take at least a generation to overcome this. I can't see Scots wanting to be a part of this for much longer.

ancapailldorcha · 31-03-2019 12:34PM

Mod: When posting links, please endeavor to add an opinion in your own words. Posts deleted.

Headshot · 31-03-2019 12:35PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

TBH at this stage I think a long extension will only succeed in doing more damage to the body politic in the UK.

They are in crisis and need shock therapy I think.

This shock would have a grave affect on Europe and especially Ireland. Why do we need to trigger the self destruct button?

Deleted User wrote: »

Under no circumstances - none at all - can the European Union be deemed responsible for any of this entirely self-inflicted British stunt. So that scapegoating of the EU for this unequivocally British-created problem can be parked in the oligarch-owned British media.

If anything, the EU has been too accommodating of English jingoists' very public "We can't believe we're not a world power anymore" humiliation.

Yes the British are the main architects of their downfall but if they go to Europe and ask for extension and we decline it, essentially we'll be blamed for a no deal Brexit which will do untold damage across Europe.

The EU have played a stormer in negotiations and I would hope when the British come back looking for an extension we let them have it on certain conditions like having a confirmation referendum etc

31-03-2019 12:46PM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Footage from Grieve's assocation meeting where he was deselected.

https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1112011627312934913

English political scene is in a very poor place right now and it will take at least a generation to overcome this. I can't see Scots wanting to be a part of this for much longer.

That was ugly. I spent most of a day in the Topographie des Terrors museum in Berlin in the past year and the insidiousness and perniciousness of the rise of rightwing populists there was particularly unsettling in how they organised in mobs to undermine political and public meetings, demonising anybody who didn't subscribe to their new orthodoxy as a traitor of some form. No dissension.

Time for people to wake up to the historical magnitude of what's going on and be conscious of well-worn trends once this sort of thing starts. The 1930s are not long ago at all (both my parents were born then) and it is delusional in the extreme to think rightwing populists with anti-democratic tendencies cannot get into power again.

FrancieBrady · 31-03-2019 12:47PM

Headshot wrote: »

This shock would have a grave affect on Europe and especially Ireland. Why do we need to trigger the self destruct button?

Yes the British are the main architects of their downfall but if they go to Europe and ask for extension and we decline it, essentially we'll be blamed for a no deal Brexit which will do untold damage across Europe.

The EU have played a stormer in negotiations and I would hope when the British come back looking for an extension we let them have it on certain conditions like having a confirmation referendum etc

The EU is getting and will get the blame anyway in the UK. Look around you.

lawred2 · 31-03-2019 12:48PM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Footage from Grieve's assocation meeting where he was deselected.

https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1112011627312934913

English political scene is in a very poor place right now and it will take at least a generation to overcome this. I can't see Scots wanting to be a part of this for much longer.

That's very sad really. That's gutter level. Political party members acting like bar stool louts and bigots.

Conservatism at this stage has gone from fiscal responsibility and pro business all the way through to just basic racism.

Headshot · 31-03-2019 12:49PM

FrancieBrady wrote: »

The EU is getting and will get the blame anyway in the UK. Look around you.

From the polls Ive seen it's mainly the Government getting the blame. Just idiots like Farage trying to make the EU the Boogeyman but most people arent bitting

judeboy101 · 31-03-2019 12:50PM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Footage from Grieve's assocation meeting where he was deselected.

https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1112011627312934913

English political scene is in a very poor place right now and it will take at least a generation to overcome this. I can't see Scots wanting to be a part of this for much longer.

He wasn't deselected that can only happen when there is a election coming , he failed in a vote of confidence.

Headshot · 31-03-2019 12:53PM

Mr.Nice Guy wrote: »

Footage from Grieve's assocation meeting where he was deselected.

https://twitter.com/Gabriel_Pogrund/status/1112011627312934913

English political scene is in a very poor place right now and it will take at least a generation to overcome this. I can't see Scots wanting to be a part of this for much longer.

It's an infestation of UKIP members poisoning the association. These people just want to watch the world to burn and will do everything in their power to get what they want.

These people don't see common sense and cannot work their heads around how a no Brexit deal will cause havoc for their economy.

FrancieBrady · 31-03-2019 12:56PM

Headshot wrote: »

From the polls Ive seen it's mainly the Government getting the blame. Just idiots like Farage trying to make the EU the Boogeyman but most people arent bitting

And the only people you need worry about are those who know what happened, and they won't be blaming the EU. Because anybody looking at what happened couldn't sensibly reach that conclusion.

Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

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