John Delaney at the FAI Thread - (Mod Notes in OP)

listermint · 25-03-2019 01:56PM

Minster for sport should pull public moneys until its demonstrated that they clean house. Its evident the Board and the CEO is not fit for purpose. And they should not be receiving any public money based on whats come out so far.

givyjoe · 25-03-2019 02:18PM

Berserker wrote: »

Is JD's rent being paid out of that €7.5 million? I find it odd that people are latching on to this point. There are plenty of other reasons, viable reasons, why he should step aside. If your employer offered to pay your rent/mortgage would you turn it down?

So if Sky sports buy the rights to be the sole broadcaster of all Irish international football games and a handful of Lol games, for a bucket load of cash, which can be pumped into the game here, you'd be happy with that?

Do you think that his 'employer' offered to pay his rent. Or the CEO decided that the CEOs rent should be covered. I know which one is far more likely.

artanevilla · 25-03-2019 02:23PM

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

You make some good points. I would put forward the A-LEAGUE as a good example that our national league could implement here (I don't include a play-off and grand final in that)...

Salary caps, and the a maximum of two marquee players on whom a larger salary can be utilized on. Unfortunately you'd have an awful lot of people against that type of setup due to having a complete disdain for salary caps and the likes. However, look at the level of player they have been able to attract over the years...

Del Piero
Dwight Yorke
Damien Duff
David Villa (briefly)
Marc Janko
Andy Keogh
Keisuke Honda
Robbie Fowler

The fact that Marquee signings are limited means there's still a large onus on clubs to develop their own players. And whatever your feelings on marquee players, they will attract fans that would not otherwise go.

The salary caps would also hopefully ensure that clubs have some level of control to their spending.

That's the type of thing the League of Ireland would want to steer clear of. The whole joy of watching LOI is you are watching your peers run around play football, not some overpaid millionaire, the mad money the lads above are on is better invested back into the club.

The league is a great product as it is, it is convincing people of that, not diluting the product by bringing in has-beens.

Berserker · 25-03-2019 02:33PM

Augme wrote: »

The problem is John Delaney is basically the FAI. Hence the reason he just moved himself into a new position rather than quiting like he should do.

A new external CEO will 'manage' him out of the role fairly quickly.

Awesomeness wrote: »

Clubs are trying to do it themselves but it all comes down to having a good euro run. Euro runs and players like Jack Byrne and Sean Murray will get fans attending games.

No disrespect to players returning back to the league here but it's all about success and visibility on the European stage. Did Rovers' gate increase when Damien Duff returned play for them?

Dots1982 wrote: »

Why would private business invest in the LOI? If you want your business to be associated with successful brands the LOI is not where you would look.

You are missing the point I was making. The clubs need to find people who can turn them into successful brands and companies will start and want to be associated with them. The old guard in the clubs need to be willing to accept progress and change though.

Dots1982 wrote: »

Merging clubs? Taking away clubs’ identity does not sound like a good strategy.

The IRFU did great work. But it’s a very different animal to football. Irish rugby clubs always had potential to lift European trophies and produce world class players like Brian odriscoll even before they got their act together. It isn’t at all the same in football.

Firstly, I see no issue with merging clubs. LoI fans don't differ in terms of identity on a macro level. It's not like you have clubs with different religious or political ethea.

Secondly, the RoI has developed world class players down through the years. McGrath, Brady, Giles and Keane are names that pop into my head immediately.

givyjoe wrote: »

Do you think that his 'employer' offered to pay his rent. Or the CEO decided that the CEOs rent should be covered. I know which one is far more likely.

You suspect that the later is more likely but you don't know that. It's not uncommon for employers to subsidise the living costs of employees, as I said before. I'm baffled as to why people are so caught up on this point. There are plenty of people in the country who have benefits like this.

Irishmale0399 · 25-03-2019 02:40PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

No it’s a failure of all of us that don’t support the Irish domestic game.

The Irish domestic game is subject to a lack of public interest. Hence it exists in near poverty. That is not just the FAI’s fault. It’s everybody’s fault.

If you want to lay the blame of the failure of the LOI at the FAI then go ahead but I won’t be convinced by that argument seeing as the LOI wasn’t strong enough to stand on its own feet when it tried.

If the LOI clubs are getting screwed then I don’t see why they can’t break from the FAI just like the premier league in England is not governed by the FA.

Back from the international game and sitting at your desk in Abbotstown??? Silence was deafening Sat and Sun......Uhu Super Glue.....and just to put it on record....No tennis balls tomorrow night so no need for extra security that JD never knows about.

Berserker · 25-03-2019 02:41PM

artanevilla wrote: »

The league is a great product as it is, it is convincing people of that, not diluting the product by bringing in has-beens.

The general public doesn't think that it's a great product and that's all that matters. If you want to develop the game here, you need to smash that perception.

Irishmale0399 · 25-03-2019 02:43PM

Berserker wrote: »

The general public doesn't think that it's a great product and that's all that matters. If you want to develop the game here, you need to smash that perception.

And to do that the owners (FAI) of the product have to promote it. Marketing cannot only be done locally by clubs it should also be done by the FAI nationally.

cmac2009 · 25-03-2019 02:44PM

Berserker wrote: »

A new external CEO will 'manage' him out of the role fairly quickly.

No disrespect to players returning back to the league here but it's all about success and visibility on the European stage. Did Rovers' gate increase when Damien Duff returned play for them?

You are missing the point I was making. The clubs need to find people who can turn them into successful brands and companies will start and want to be associated with them. The old guard in the clubs need to be willing to accept progress and change though.

Firstly, I see no issue with merging clubs. LoI fans don't differ in terms of identity on a macro level. It's not like you have clubs with different religious or political ethea.

Secondly, the RoI has developed world class players down through the years. McGrath, Brady, Giles and Keane are names that pop into my head immediately.

You suspect that the later is more likely but you don't know that. It's not uncommon for employers to subsidise the living costs of employees, as I said before. I'm baffled as to why people as so caught up on this point. There are plenty of people in the country who have benefits like this.

Whilst the rent point is not a major issue here, I believe the reason so much is being made of it is due to cuts made to other FAI employees salaries, whom are on substantially less and would have a significant impact.

In my view benefits like these can be the norm in private sector organisations where you are trying to attract top talent. Is it necessary here for the FAI? Is a salary of 360k not sufficient? Has it been benchmarked? It's more about corporate governance, which we can see is pretty much non-existent within the FAI.

Sebastian Dangerfield · 25-03-2019 02:45PM

Berserker wrote: »

A new external CEO will 'manage' him out of the role fairly quickly.

If Delaney is still pulling the strings from his new role, and I have no doubt he won't be, I expect the CEO brought in will be someone who recognises the "importance" of the Executive Vice-Chairman.

artanevilla · 25-03-2019 02:49PM

Berserker wrote: »

The general public doesn't think that it's a great product and that's all that matters. If you want to develop the game here, you need to smash that perception.

It is smashed by promotion of our league. Not by bringing in Robbie Fowler.

threein99 · 25-03-2019 02:53PM

https://www.rte.ie/news/ireland/2019/0325/1038411-john-delaney-fai/

topmanamillion · 25-03-2019 02:53PM

People quote a salary of €360,000 for Delaney.
In reality his remuneration probably exceeds €500,000 when you factor in pension contributions, expenses and junkets to Zurich with his sweetheart in toe. Trips I highly doubt she's dipping into her own pocket to go on.

He's a leech draining Irish football dry.
That's just him. The FAI have zero transparency in their accounts and will accept no scrutiny at AGMs. So we have no idea what kind of a drain the rest of his cronies are.

All we know for certain is neither the GAA or IRFU needed to draw down grants early to maintain liquidity. The FAI are the only ones that needed to do this.

In Delaneys time the IRFU and GAAs revenue has sped ahead of the FAI. At the beginning of the milenium (around the time Delaney became CEO). The FAI was the richest sports organisation in the country. Now, both the IRFU and GAAs turnover is €20 million better.

threein99 · 25-03-2019 02:55PM

topmanamillion wrote: »

People quote a salary of €360,000 for Delaney.
In reality his remuneration probably exceeds €500,000 when you factor in pension contributions, expenses and junkets to Zurich with his sweetheart in toe. Trips I highly doubt she's dipping into her own pocket to go on.

He's a leech draining Irish football dry.
That's just him. The FAI have zero transparency in their accounts and will accept no scrutiny at AGMs. So we have no idea what kind of a drain the rest of his cronies are.

All we know for certain is neither the GAA or IRFU needed to draw down grants early to maintain liquidity. The FAI are the only ones that needed to do this.

In Delaneys time the IRFU and GAAs revenue has sped ahead of the FAI. At the beginning of the milenium (around the time Delaney became CEO). The FAI was the richest sports organisation in the country. Now, both the IRFU and GAAs turnover is €20 million better.

Here here!

Hes an absolute disgrace to Irish soccer and should be shown up for what he is.

Irishmale0399 · 25-03-2019 02:56PM

topmanamillion wrote: »

People quote a salary of €360,000 for Delaney.
In reality his remuneration probably exceeds €500,000 when you factor in pension contributions, expenses and junkets to Zurich with his sweetheart in toe. Trips I highly doubt she's dipping into her own pocket to go on.

He's a leech draining Irish football dry.
That's just him. The FAI have zero transparency in their accounts and will accept no scrutiny at AGMs. So we have no idea what kind of a drain the rest of his cronies are.

All we know for certain is neither the GAA or IRFU needed to draw down grants early to maintain liquidity. The FAI are the only ones that needed to do this.

In Delaneys time the IRFU and GAAs revenue has sped ahead of the FAI. At the beginning of the milenium (around the time Delaney became CEO). The FAI was the richest sports organisation in the country. Now, both the IRFU and GAAs turnover is €20 million better.

He is on the following if reports are to believed:
FAI Salary: €360,000
UEFA Salary: €160,000
Rent: €36,000
Expenses: Unknown
Total: €556,000 + Expenses

Oat23 · 25-03-2019 02:58PM

cmac2009 wrote: »

Whilst the rent point is not a major issue here, I believe the reason so much is being made of it is due to cuts made to other FAI employees salaries, whom are on substantially less and would have a significant impact.

In my view benefits like these can be the norm in private sector organisations where you are trying to attract top talent. Is it necessary here for the FAI? Is a salary of 360k not sufficient? Has it been benchmarked? It's more about corporate governance, which we can see is pretty much non-existent within the FAI.

It's hilarious that someone thinks the board could have been sitting in a meeting and one of them suddenly says "Hey. You know what? We should start paying John's rent."

Berserker · 25-03-2019 03:06PM

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

And to do that the owners (FAI) of the product have to promote it. Marketing cannot only be done locally by clubs it should also be done by the FAI nationally.

Both parties have an equal but different role to play in that for me. The FAI needs to market the league but marketing can and should be done by the clubs themselves also. If the FAI is failing that doesn't mean that the clubs will/should fail.

I attended a Newcastle United game seven years ago as part of a stag. I still get emails from them about ticket sales, merchandise, memberships etc to this day. One of my best mates decided to buy a season ticket for Bohemians when they were top of the league (playing Rosenborg in Europe). Wasters never even bothered to send him out a renewal form/email at the end of the season. Is incompetence like that the fault of the club or the FAI?

cmac2009 wrote: »

Whilst the rent point is not a major issue here, I believe the reason so much is being made of it is due to cuts made to other FAI employees salaries, whom are on substantially less and would have a significant impact.

In my view benefits like these can be the norm in private sector organisations where you are trying to attract top talent. Is it necessary here for the FAI? Is a salary of 360k not sufficient? Has it been benchmarked? It's more about corporate governance, which we can see is pretty much non-existent within the FAI.

I wasn't aware of the cuts to other employees salaries. Highlighting this issue makes more sense now. It's not uncommon for senior executives to give themselves perks like that whilst they screw their own staff. You don't become a senior executive by being a decent person; as a rule.

Oat23 wrote: »

It's hilarious that someone thinks the board could have been sitting in a meeting and one of them suddenly says "Hey. You know what? We should start paying John's rent."

It doesn't work like that. They assemble a package which they believe will attract the type of candidate that they need. Also, on interviewing, a candidate at that level can request specific perks, eg suitable accommodation, a car etc.

expectationlost · 25-03-2019 03:09PM

think Delaney had lots of FAI gatherings at his house so it was virtually a FAI house, which is why he they might have paid his rent

prettyboy81 · 25-03-2019 03:13PM

Anyone listening to Liveline....talk to John! John Delaney is the topic with ex employee & reps from some country clubs.

whiskeyman · 25-03-2019 03:14PM

Any word from the FAI sponsors on this?
They should be challenged and should vow to stop their contracts until all is disclosed.
3 Ireland, New Balance, SSE etc... shouldn't be bank rolling this shambles of an organisation either and should understand their own name will be tarnished.

Irishmale0399 · 25-03-2019 03:15PM

Berserker wrote: »

Both parties have an equal but different role to play in that for me. The FAI needs to market the league but marketing can and should be done by the clubs themselves also. If the FAI is failing that doesn't mean that the clubs will/should fail.

I attended a Newcastle United game seven years ago as part of a stag. I still get emails from them about ticket sales, merchandise, memberships etc to this day. One of my best mates decided to buy a season ticket for Bohemians when they were top of the league (playing Rosenborg in Europe). Wasters never even bothered to send him out a renewal form/email at the end of the season. Is incompetence like that the fault of the club or the FAI?

I would safely say that is the difference between a full time English club earning millions and paying professionals to do their marketing for them. Then think about a LOI club living on the border line trying to do the same with people giving up their free time to keep the club running. Simple fact is the man power, know how and budget are not/were not available.

However had the FAI invested lets say €100,000 extra per year solely in the LOI marketing.....what difference would it have made???

Oat23 · 25-03-2019 03:22PM

Berserker wrote: »

It doesn't work like that. They assemble a package which they believe will attract the type of candidate that they need. Also, on interviewing, a candidate at that level can request specific perks, eg suitable accommodation, a car etc.

He was already employed for half a decade before they started paying his rent, but continue acting daft. We all know how it really went down.

Dots1982 · 25-03-2019 03:25PM

Irishmale0399 wrote: »

I would safely say that is the difference between a full time English club earning millions and paying professionals to do their marketing for them. Then think about a LOI club living on the border line trying to do the same with people giving up their free time to keep the club running. Simple fact is the man power, know how and budget are not/were not available.

However had the FAI invested lets say €100,000 extra per year solely in the LOI marketing.....what difference would it have made???

The volunteers at my local intermediate GAA club will be happy to show any LOI club how to create an automated mailing list to alert members to renewing subs.

twowheelsonly · 25-03-2019 03:36PM

topmanamillion wrote: »

In Delaneys time the IRFU and GAAs revenue has sped ahead of the FAI. At the beginning of the milenium (around the time Delaney became CEO). The FAI was the richest sports organisation in the country. Now, both the IRFU and GAAs turnover is €20 million better.

I seriously doubt that the FAI was ever the richest Sports Organisation in the country. I'm open to correction if you can provide info that shows that to be true.

_________________________________________________________

Half the problem here is not Delaney per se but the entire set-up, starting at the oft mentioned grassroots. Delaney is at the top of the tree so obviously he's going to attract the most ire.
There are so many leagues in this country that I don't know how anyone keeps track. There are 32 Schoolboys Leagues alone. Add in AULs and Junior Leagues, Shipping / Business Leagues, Senior Leagues, Schools, Colleges, Womens, LoI, and probably more that I'm forgetting. Each of these Leagues (and each of the teams within them) has a committee of some sort running them - Chairmen, Secretaries, Treasurers etc. In my experience almost every Committee has at least one member that thinks they are more important than the League itself. They all report 'up the line' to their parent organisations culminating in the FAI itself. That's a lot of 'very important people' involved in the whole mix. In fairness, a lot of these important people are looking out for their own League or Club but again this puts a lot of demand on the resources of the FAI. LoI people say they should give a million to the LoI, Leinster FA says they should get it, the schoolboys clubs say they should get it and so on... It's quite simply never going to work in all cases.

In my opinion we should be going down the European route of shared facilities, in particular at Schoolboys / Junior level and in particular in urban areas. In many countries if you go to a schoolboys game it's in a massive area with 10 or 12 pitches and various games going on in all of them. In this country, for some reason, every club seems to want it's own facilities but want grants to pay for it. If you want your own, fair enough, but you pay for it yourself. Otherwise the FAI in conjunction with local councils etc supplies the pitches at nominal rent (or none). Whoever looks after grants up there must have nightmares. Club A wants €20k, Club B wants €50k etc., etc., and there's 100s' of them !!!!

The problems are a lot more complex than Mr Delaney and it's going to take a massive overhaul of how the whole system works before it becomes close to being acceptable. Anyone that thinks getting rid of him solves all the problems is delusional. This is historic problems. Think of his predecessors - Fran Rooney, Brendan Menton, Bernard O'Byrne... all ousted under a cloud of some description..

kippy · 25-03-2019 03:38PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

The volunteers at my local intermediate GAA club will be happy to show any LOI club how to create an automated mailing list to alert members to renewing subs.

Different ball game lad.

chicorytip · 25-03-2019 04:07PM

twowheelsonly wrote:

The problems are a lot more complex than Mr Delaney and it's going to take a massive overhaul of how the whole system works before it becomes close to being acceptable. Anyone that thinks getting rid of him solves all the problems is delusional. This is historic problems. Think of his predecessors - Fran Rooney, Brendan Menton, Bernard O'Byrne... all ousted under a cloud of some description..

Delaney deserves some credit for his business acumen but not necessarily his football related decisions - appointment of managers being foremost. Nobody can deny that the FAI has been modernised and is commercially successful with a fine stadium and training facilities that it now actually owns. All of this has occurred under Delaney's stewardship and because of his initiative. Maintaining this situation largely depends on how successful the senior international team is and the associated levels of sponsorship the association can attract. Not one of these critics harping on from the sidelines - most appear to be embittered ex managers or players - has voiced a single proactive idea or opinion as to how exactly Irish football, at all levels, can be improved.

kippy · 25-03-2019 04:15PM

chicorytip wrote: »

Delaney deserves some credit for his business acumen but not necessarily his football related decisions - appointment of managers being foremost. Nobody can deny that the FAI has been modernised and is commercially successful with a fine stadium and training facilities that it now actually owns. All of this has occurred under Delaney's stewardship and because of his initiative. Maintaining this situation largely depends on how successful the senior international team is and the associated levels of sponsorship the association can attract. Not one of these critics harping on from the sidelines - most appear to be embittered ex managers or players - has voiced a single proactive idea or opinion as to how exactly Irish football, at all levels, can be improved.

That depends on how you read it.
The income of the FAI over the past decade has not improved at the same pace as it has at the GAA or IRFU for that matter. In fact it used to be on par with both organisations - no longer - both organisations are circa 20 Million per year better off than the FAI. (I Don't have a source for this at the minute - someone might be so kind as to provide one if they are aware of the same article.)

The obsession with paying off the loan for the Aviva has come at the expense of investment in grassroots and staff. This much is obvious. Maybe it would have been better to:
1. Remortage the Aviva over a longer term or pay back at the agreed rates (as opposed to over paying)

There are plenty people out there with ideas and options, however very few are involved in the FAI for obvious reasons.

Sebastian Dangerfield · 25-03-2019 04:16PM

chicorytip wrote: »

Delaney deserves some credit for his business acumen but not necessarily his football related decisions - appointment of managers being foremost. Nobody can deny that the FAI has been modernised and is commercially successful with a fine stadium and training facilities that it now actually owns. All of this has occurred under Delaney's stewardship and because of his initiative. Maintaining this situation largely depends on how successful the senior international team is and the associated levels of sponsorship the association can attract. Not one of these critics harping on from the sidelines - most appear to be embittered ex managers or players - has voiced a single proactive idea or opinion as to how exactly Irish football, at all levels, can be improved.

Without any transparency on what is done now and how it is done; what influences these decisions and what doesn't; what the view for the future is, what the finances allow and don't etc., it's very hard for anyone to make an informed judgement. They operate as a closed shop by choice.

A friend who is a Boh's fan used the increase in popularity of ladies gaelic football as an example. Sponsored by Lidl, big push in advertising and promotion = boost in attendances. 10 years ago, I'd have said ladies gaelic football had a lot more to do than the LOI.

Corholio · 25-03-2019 04:28PM

chicorytip wrote: »

Delaney deserves some credit for his business acumen but not necessarily his football related decisions - appointment of managers being foremost. Nobody can deny that the FAI has been modernised and is commercially successful with a fine stadium and training facilities that it now actually owns. All of this has occurred under Delaney's stewardship and because of his initiative. Maintaining this situation largely depends on how successful the senior international team is and the associated levels of sponsorship the association can attract. Not one of these critics harping on from the sidelines - most appear to be embittered ex managers or players - has voiced a single proactive idea or opinion as to how exactly Irish football, at all levels, can be improved.

I've heard this a few times now about 'nobody else has come up with ideas' etc and it's not true it all. It just might be ideas that you individually think won't work so they aren't counted. Niall Quinn put forward some ideas a few weeks ago, I personally didn't agree with a number of them but he put them forward none the less. Brian Kerr has mentioned for years about his ideas for the LOI at various stages. Opinions and ideas are everywhere, you just need to count the ones you don't agree with as well.

joeysoap · 25-03-2019 04:34PM

Berserker wrote: »

Both parties have an equal but different role to play in that for me. The FAI needs to market the league but marketing can and should be done by the clubs themselves also. If the FAI is failing that doesn't mean that the clubs will/should fail.

Some clubs could market better agreed. But the FAI should be promoting the league better.

Berserker wrote: »

I attended a Newcastle United game seven years ago as part of a stag. I still get emails from them about ticket sales, merchandise, memberships etc to this day. One of my best mates decided to buy a season ticket for Bohemians when they were top of the league (playing Rosenborg in Europe). Wasters never even bothered to send him out a renewal form/email at the end of the season. Is incompetence like that the fault of the club or the FAI?

Most clubs try to hang on to season ticket holders. For example Dundalk phone you personally and ask if you are renewing. Email promotion by clubs should be a way forward.

topmanamillion · 25-03-2019 04:36PM

chicorytip wrote: »

Delaney deserves some credit for his business acumen but not necessarily his football related decisions - appointment of managers being foremost. Nobody can deny that the FAI has been modernised and is commercially successful with a fine stadium and training facilities that it now actually owns. All of this has occurred under Delaney's stewardship and because of his initiative. Maintaining this situation largely depends on how successful the senior international team is and the associated levels of sponsorship the association can attract. Not one of these critics harping on from the sidelines - most appear to be embittered ex managers or players - has voiced a single proactive idea or opinion as to how exactly Irish football, at all levels, can be improved.

Afternoon John.
Could you please elaborate on how the vantage ticket sales debacle showed good business acumen?

The FAI piggy backed on the IRFUs initiative and foresight and have a 50 year lease as tenants in Lansdown Road.

A snapshot of the FAIs finances 2007 compared to the IRFUs:
IRFU - €49 Million
FAI - €45 million

In the 10 years to 2017 the IRFU almost doubled their revenue to €87 million.

In the same period the FAIs revenue increased by just €4 million or to put it another way the same amount the IRFU were managing to increase theirs by every year.

The FAI have been asleep at the wheel for a long time now. Their 20 years behind both the GAA and IRFU in everything they do.

A few cushy offices in abbotstown with some pitches out the back doesn't change that.

John Delaney at the FAI Thread - (Mod Notes in OP)

Comments