John Delaney at the FAI Thread - (Mod Notes in OP)

Dots1982 · 25-03-2019 11:37AM

Mokuba wrote: »

Utter, utter dribble.

It is the job of the FAI to promote and improve the LOI. Any failure in "TV deals" (LOL) and Sponsorship is a failure of the FAI.

No it’s a failure of all of us that don’t support the Irish domestic game.

The Irish domestic game is subject to a lack of public interest. Hence it exists in near poverty. That is not just the FAI’s fault. It’s everybody’s fault.

If you want to lay the blame of the failure of the LOI at the FAI then go ahead but I won’t be convinced by that argument seeing as the LOI wasn’t strong enough to stand on its own feet when it tried.

If the LOI clubs are getting screwed then I don’t see why they can’t break from the FAI just like the premier league in England is not governed by the FA.

Ol' Donie · 25-03-2019 11:40AM

Dots1982 wrote: »

No it’s a failure of all of us that don’t support the Irish domestic game.

The Irish domestic game is subject to a lack of public interest. Hence it exists in near poverty. That is not just the FAI’s fault. It’s everybody’s fault.

If you want to lay the blame of the failure of the LOI at the FAI then go ahead but I won’t be convinced by that argument seeing as the LOI wasn’t strong enough to stand on its own feet when it tried.

If the LOI clubs are getting screwed then I don’t see why they can’t break from the FAI just like the premier league in England is not governed by the FA.

Then don't pay one chancer €350k a year for doing nothing about something that's everyone else's fault anyway.

Berserker · 25-03-2019 11:44AM

Dots1982 wrote: »

No it’s a failure of all of us that don’t support the Irish domestic game.

The Irish domestic game is subject to a lack of public interest. Hence it exists in near poverty. That is not just the FAI’s fault. It’s everybody’s fault.

If you want to lay the blame of the failure of the LOI at the FAI then go ahead but I won’t be convinced by that argument seeing as the LOI wasn’t strong enough to stand on its own feet when it tried.

If the LOI clubs are getting screwed then I don’t see why they can’t break from the FAI just like the premier league in England is not governed by the FA.

Nope, the FAI and the clubs need to present a product which the public wants to purchase. People in Ireland don't have a natural affinity to a particular football club, through family etc, so the FAI and the clubs themselves need to make their end product appealing to their potential customers.

threein99 · 25-03-2019 11:51AM

Berserker wrote: »

So, what are you guys planning on doing tomorrow night to protest against JD? Walkout during the game, don't turn up at all, banners?

Note sure why people are getting so caught up on this. It's part of the package for the CEO of the organisation. It's far from uncommon. The CEO of the company I work for is not Irish and her rent is covered by the company. My employer paid my rent, well most of it, when I lived in NY.

Why should the FAI pay his rent ? 36 grand a year!

Berserker · 25-03-2019 11:55AM

threein99 wrote: »

Why should the FAI pay his rent ? 36 grand a year!

If he's managed to negotiate it as part of his contract then why not? Bigger fools them for agree to do it.

Dots1982 · 25-03-2019 11:58AM

Berserker wrote: »

Nope, the FAI and the clubs need to present a product which the public wants to purchase. People in Ireland don't have a natural affinity to a particular football club, through family etc, so the FAI and the clubs themselves need to make their end product appealing to their potential customers.

They do have an affinity. Unfortunately it is to clubs in Scotland and England.

Realistically the FAI are a poor organization because they exist in a country where another sport is king (GAA). It would be great if the government took it upon themselves to invest in soccer and sport in this country.

Ireland is always in the bottom three in the EU in terms of its public investment in sport compared to private investment. ie Ireland’s people are far more generous in supporting sport than its governments. Countries far poorer than ours invest far more in sport.

Of course this never gets mentioned by Ireland’s media because they aren’t bright enough to do the research on it.

Anyway it’s probably going to go over the heads of most posters here so I’m probably wasting my time.

threein99 · 25-03-2019 11:59AM

Berserker wrote: »

If he's managed to negotiate it as part of his contract then why not? Bigger fools them for agree to do it.

That's pretty much my point

D14Rugby · 25-03-2019 11:59AM

Berserker wrote: »

If he's managed to negotiate it as part of his contract then why not? Bigger fools them for agree to do it.

He's managed to negotiate it with himself basically

Necro · 25-03-2019 12:02PM

Berserker wrote:

If he's managed to negotiate it as part of his contract then why not? Bigger fools them for agree to do it.

They? He is/was/still is just changed role titles - the head of the bloody organisation?

How do you think that conversation would fare out if someone rejected his request, given everything we already know about the FAI?

Augme · 25-03-2019 12:03PM

Berserker wrote: »

If he's managed to negotiate it as part of his contract then why not? Bigger fools them for agree to do it.

The problem is John Delaney is basically the FAI. Hence the reason he just moved himself into a new position rather than quiting like he should do.

GavRedKing · 25-03-2019 12:09PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

It really depends on how much money the LOI generate for the FAI through tv deals and sponsorship. If it far exceeds the prize fund then yes the LOI clubs are being ripped off.

I'm no LoI fan but the way the clubs are treated by the FAI is pretty scandalous.

The league only exists as a way for the FAI to field a national side and they've little interest in promoting it.

Does the FAI still charge clubs nearly 20k a year for a "license" fee, if they do, its pretty appalling that clubs have to fork that out meaning that if they dont finish at least 6th or higher, the prize money they receive compared to what they pay out is in fact costing them to play in the league.

In the grand scheme of things, charging 10 clubs the bones of 200k when you're making 5m a year profit and have 50m revenue streams is a bit much.

Its a bit of shambles really and while its not directly Delaneys problem ,its an FAI one and one they should have addressed by now. The FAI should be serving the clubs and the betterment of the game in this country, not the clubs serving the FAI and being asked to stretch themselves thin to serve the FAI.

secman · 25-03-2019 12:13PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

We don’t know what perks the heads of state bodies get. The head of the IRFU, the president of the IOC. Even spread it out to the HSE, FAS, the Garda commissioner. As far as I know their financial packages are not for public consumption.

A huge difference between Garda Commissioner and CEO of a football Assoc, and to be fair our one in comparison to English, Italian, French, Spanish, Dutch, even Scottish is a Mickey mouse , don't even have a properly funded league and stadia.
Yet Delaney is probably in the top tier of remuneration for CEO of football Assoc.
I was speaking to a guy last week, whose sister works in the FAI, she also has a credit card, but when Delaney is on a jolly junket, he would frequently borrow the other members cards to put Bill's on them, spreads them out, so don't all appear down against him. He is more interested in himself than Irish football and that is the problem in a nutshell.

Fr Tod Umptious · 25-03-2019 12:14PM

shanec1928 wrote: »

Im guessing JD gave your local club a few bob for an astro

Isn't that exactly what the FAI should be doing ?

Funding grassroots.

There was a post yesterday featuring a tweet from a local politician offering some support for JD based on the fact that FAI , under the leadership of JD had helped developed new facilities for a local club.

The first reply to the tweet was something like "You don't have a clue, you never stood on the terraces at a LOI game...."

So fing what if she never stood on the terraces at a LOI game, she was acknowledging the support the FAI gave a local club.

Mokuba · 25-03-2019 12:17PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

No it’s a failure of all of us that don’t support the Irish domestic game.

The Irish domestic game is subject to a lack of public interest. Hence it exists in near poverty. That is not just the FAI’s fault. It’s everybody’s fault.

If you want to lay the blame of the failure of the LOI at the FAI then go ahead but I won’t be convinced by that argument seeing as the LOI wasn’t strong enough to stand on its own feet when it tried.

If the LOI clubs are getting screwed then I don’t see why they can’t break from the FAI just like the premier league in England is not governed by the FA.

There is a lack of investment and support at grassroots and club level. Without investment the players won't develop. Without decent players the people won't come.

I agree that there is a money drain across the Irish Sea. But why would you expect anybody to care about the League when the FAI don't?

You could have taken over €1 million off the combined salaries of John Delaney, Martin O Neill and Roy Keane and given it to the LOI. The impact would be huge for the LOI. Funnily enough doing so would have had their salaries in line with identical roles in other nations.

kippy · 25-03-2019 12:24PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Isn't that exactly what the FAI should be doing ?

Funding grassroots.

There was a post yesterday featuring a tweet from a local politician offering some support for JD based on the fact that FAI , under the leadership of JD had helped developed new facilities for a local club.

The first reply to the tweet was something like "You don't have a clue, you never stood on the terraces at a LOI game...."

So fing what if she never stood on the terraces at a LOI game, she was acknowledging the support the FAI gave a local club.

Agreed, it is within the remit of the FAI to support and develop grass roots soccer and provide funding to grass roots.

However, one has to question exactly how good a job they are doing at this and why they tend to get "so much" credit for it - It is within their remit after all.
I think it is very fair to question any organisation who are failing in their remit or who are not using the funding they are receiving properly.

Dots1982 · 25-03-2019 12:24PM

The fai even under a competent administrator will probably never generate enough money to transform the game here to a level we would like.

The government will always treat sport like a poor relation.

I’ve posted here before that what Irish football needs is a supporters trust to directly invest in Irish football’s needy causes and infrastructure at grassroots. It empowers Irish football while weakening the FAI.

Unfortunately most would rather sign petitions, tweet hashtags and talk about boycotts that will never happen.

Brock Turnpike · 25-03-2019 12:27PM

Mokuba wrote: »

You could have taken over €1 million off the combined salaries of John Delaney, Martin O Neill and Roy Keane and given it to the LOI. The impact would be huge for the LOI. Funnily enough doing so would have had their salaries in line with identical roles in other nations.

This is a very pertinent point. Delaney is being paid a fortune, and the association hasn't a pot to piss in!! How can they justify paying a CEO a salary that leads to them needing to ask him for a lend?

GavRedKing · 25-03-2019 12:28PM

Fr Tod Umptious wrote: »

Isn't that exactly what the FAI should be doing ?

Funding grassroots.

There was a post yesterday featuring a tweet from a local politician offering some support for JD based on the fact that FAI , under the leadership of JD had helped developed new facilities for a local club.

The first reply to the tweet was something like "You don't have a clue, you never stood on the terraces at a LOI game...."

So fing what if she never stood on the terraces at a LOI game, she was acknowledging the support the FAI gave a local club.

If its the same politician I'm thinking of, I seen the Tweet and someone had already posted in that tweet with a screenshot, that she had worked for the FAI for 8 years or so, I'd guess she was only slightly biased towards Delaney and the FAI in that regard.

Dots1982 · 25-03-2019 12:28PM

Mokuba wrote: »

There is a lack of investment and support at grassroots and club level. Without investment the players won't develop. Without decent players the people won't come.

I agree that there is a money drain across the Irish Sea. But why would you expect anybody to care about the League when the FAI don't?

You could have taken over €1 million off the combined salaries of John Delaney, Martin O Neill and Roy Keane and given it to the LOI. The impact would be huge for the LOI. Funnily enough doing so would have had their salaries in line with identical roles in other nations.

If You are going to give money to the LOI make sure it’s getting spent on facilities. Otherwise they’ll just piss it against the wall on player wages like what happened in the early 2000s.

kippy · 25-03-2019 12:36PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

They do have an affinity. Unfortunately it is to clubs in Scotland and England.

Realistically the FAI are a poor organization because they exist in a country where another sport is king (GAA). It would be great if the government took it upon themselves to invest in soccer and sport in this country.

Ireland is always in the bottom three in the EU in terms of its public investment in sport compared to private investment. ie Ireland’s people are far more generous in supporting sport than its governments. Countries far poorer than ours invest far more in sport.

Of course this never gets mentioned by Ireland’s media because they aren’t bright enough to do the research on it.

Anyway it’s probably going to go over the heads of most posters here so I’m probably wasting my time.

"Realistically the FAI are a poor organization because they exist in a country where another sport is king (GAA)."
Who cares, part of their remit is to change that.......

More strawmen in that post than any post I've seen of late.

Berserker · 25-03-2019 12:40PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

They do have an affinity. Unfortunately it is to clubs in Scotland and England.

Agree with you on that.

Dots1982 wrote: »

Realistically the FAI are a poor organization because they exist in a country where another sport is king (GAA). It would be great if the government took it upon themselves to invest in soccer and sport in this country.

The GAA has a ridiculous level of control on sport in Ireland but it is still possible to be successful. The IRFU has done a wonderful job developing their game over the last 10-20 years, so it can be done. Given the popularity of football in Ireland and the number of people who play it, it could be the biggest game in the country but the FAI and the clubs themselves need a massive overhaul in terms of personnel and massive investment is needed from private businesses. There are far too many top level clubs in the country, for starters. Need to look at merging some of them, in my opinion.

Awesomeness · 25-03-2019 12:41PM

There is already a shift in the approach of clubs here in having more input into how the league has run and we are seeing benifits with players like Jack Byrne returning to play here and get international recognition. If 10% of the money earned by the association was allocated to the league for prize money we would be in a much better place to support this.

Clubs are trying to do it themselves but it all comes down to having a good euro run. Euro runs and players like Jack Byrne and Sean Murray will get fans attending games.

Despite the fact that "no one cares more about the league of ireland more" than John Delaney, that the FAI create an "atmosphere of success" for Dundalk and rovers euro runs and Delaney being name dropped in every remotely positive press release that comes from the FAI as if he is some amazing leader they do not want to actively do anything to help the clubs and whenever something bad happens its not their fault despite them running the shambolic licencing system.

Especially at a time when we have less players playing in England and more players coming through the LOI than ever before now is the time for a full clean out and a setup

joeysoap · 25-03-2019 12:49PM

GavRedKing wrote: »

The total prize money for the LoI Premier Divisions 10 sides is roughly €370k.

The CEO is paid €360k a year before expenses and he then had rent paid on a house in the amount of €36k a year, if you finish 3rd in the LoI, your prize money is €35k.

Either the LoI sides are competing for massively underpaid prize money or the CEO is massively overpaid.

The winners of the 1st division get * €30,000. Delaneys rent was €30,000.

* minus the following years affiliation fee and any fines.

Says it all.

Dots1982 · 25-03-2019 12:51PM

Berserker wrote: »

Agree with you on that.

The GAA has a ridiculous level of control on sport in Ireland but it is still possible to be successful. The IRFU has done a wonderful job developing their game over the last 10-20 years, so it can be done. Given the popularity of football in Ireland and the number of people who play it, it could be the biggest game in the country but the FAI and the clubs themselves need a massive overhaul in terms of personnel and massive investment is needed from private businesses. There are far too many top level clubs in the country, for starters. Need to look at merging some of them, in my opinion.

Why would private business invest in the LOI? If you want your business to be associated with successful brands the LOI is not where you would look.

Merging clubs? Taking away clubs’ identity does not sound like a good strategy.

The IRFU did great work. But it’s a very different animal to football. Irish rugby clubs always had potential to lift European trophies and produce world class players like Brian odriscoll even before they got their act together. It isn’t at all the same in football.

Sebastian Dangerfield · 25-03-2019 12:55PM

Any body in receipt of regular material public funding should be made to adhere to minimum governance standards - separation of duties between senior management, a quota of independant directors, maximum terms of service, transparency of reporting. Insisting on it at the outset would save fortunes in investigations (such as the Angela Kerins debacle) afterwards.

The fact that Delaney was ever able to gather this much power is laughable. As an article on RTE website noted, normally the CEO reports to the board. In this case, the board seems to report to the CEO. That he can create a role for himself, which sufficiently distances himself from scandal but keeps him in the shop window for a plum UEFA job, is ridiculous. He takes a pay cut from the FAI, but decides to no longer donate his UEFA salary back, so comes out more or less untouched. All the benefits of the CEO, none of the accountability (not that much existed).

If he gets away with this and stays on in the capacity proposed, I won't be spending another penny to line their coffers.

kippy · 25-03-2019 12:56PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

Why would private business invest in the LOI? If you want your business to be associated with successful brands the LOI is not where you would look.

Merging clubs? Taking away clubs’ identity does not sound like a good strategy.

The IRFU did great work. But it’s a very different animal to football. Irish rugby clubs always had potential to lift European trophies and produce world class players like Brian odriscoll even before they got their act together. It isn’t at all the same in football.

None of this is relevant.

Pedro K · 25-03-2019 01:12PM

A friend of mine works in HR. She has a considerable number of years experience, and all of the relevant education and qualifications. When she was looking for a new job a while ago a colleague knew she was a huge football fan and sent her a link for a job at the FAI requiring her level of education and experience. It was a Jobsbridge scheme.

In 2012, the FAI were in the Labour court defending pay cuts they implemented to regular staff, all the while Delaney is on his monstrous salary.

Clubs went bust while he was on the piss in Poland. It's easy to say that's the club's fault, but it's not easy to run a club when the FAI charge 19k fees to clubs to play in the LOI, and pay less into the entire premier Division prize pot than they do to their CEO (when you include his rent). Fines for singing anti Delaney songs don't help either.

His rent alone is twice the average wage of a LOI footballer.

This is the organisation JD has been the head of for 14 years.

Any improvements in the LOI have been in spite of the FAI, not because of them.

Anyone defending Delaney or his record needs their head shook.

Brock Turnpike · 25-03-2019 01:16PM

Berserker wrote: »

Agree with you on that.

The GAA has a ridiculous level of control on sport in Ireland but it is still possible to be successful. The IRFU has done a wonderful job developing their game over the last 10-20 years, so it can be done. Given the popularity of football in Ireland and the number of people who play it, it could be the biggest game in the country but the FAI and the clubs themselves need a massive overhaul in terms of personnel and massive investment is needed from private businesses. There are far too many top level clubs in the country, for starters. Need to look at merging some of them, in my opinion.

You make some good points. I would put forward the A-LEAGUE as a good example that our national league could implement here (I don't include a play-off and grand final in that)...

Salary caps, and the a maximum of two marquee players on whom a larger salary can be utilized on. Unfortunately you'd have an awful lot of people against that type of setup due to having a complete disdain for salary caps and the likes. However, look at the level of player they have been able to attract over the years...

Del Piero
Dwight Yorke
Damien Duff
David Villa (briefly)
Marc Janko
Andy Keogh
Keisuke Honda
Robbie Fowler

The fact that Marquee signings are limited means there's still a large onus on clubs to develop their own players. And whatever your feelings on marquee players, they will attract fans that would not otherwise go.

The salary caps would also hopefully ensure that clubs have some level of control to their spending.

Dots1982 · 25-03-2019 01:23PM

Brock Turnpike wrote: »

You make some good points. I would put forward the A-LEAGUE as a good example that our national league could implement here (I don't include a play-off and grand final in that)...

Salary caps, and the a maximum of two marquee players on whom a larger salary can be utilized on. Unfortunately you'd have an awful lot of people against that type of setup due to having a complete disdain for salary caps and the likes. However, look at the level of player they have been able to attract over the years...

Del Piero
Dwight Yorke
Damien Duff
David Villa (briefly)
Marc Janko
Andy Keogh
Keisuke Honda
Robbie Fowler

The fact that Marquee signings are limited means there's still a large onus on clubs to develop their own players. And whatever your feelings on marquee players, they will attract fans that would not otherwise go.

The salary caps would also hopefully ensure that clubs have some level of control to their spending.

WTF

Brock Turnpike · 25-03-2019 01:52PM

Dots1982 wrote: »

WTF

Great response. Finally one from you that doesn't contain a strawman argument.

John Delaney at the FAI Thread - (Mod Notes in OP)

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