Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

PokeHerKing · 22-03-2019 02:08PM

Shelga wrote:

Can the UK still unilaterally revoke article 50 until April 12th? Just trying to picture what would happen in the (very unlikely) scenario that the petition to revoke was at 10-15 million signatures by then.

Considering nearly 17 million brits already voted against Brexit why is this online petition getting so many reposts!?

Who cares, its a bloody online petition that you could realistically vote in as many times as you like.

robinph · 22-03-2019 02:15PM

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Considering nearly 17 million brits already voted against Brexit why is this online petition getting so many reposts!?

Who cares, its a bloody online petition that you could realistically vote in as many times as you like.

It's just a reminder to MPs that there are people out there who didn't vote leave despite the claims of "will of the people".

JeffKenna · 22-03-2019 02:17PM

robinph wrote: »

It's just a reminder to MPs that there are people out there who didn't vote leave despite the claims of "will of the people".

But it is the will of the people. How can you claim that its not?

Eod100 · 22-03-2019 02:20PM

It's like they're starting all over again. Jaysus

https://twitter.com/KateEMcCann/status/1109077848210456576

Inquitus · 22-03-2019 02:20PM

JeffKenna wrote: »

But it is the will of the people. How can you claim that its not?

People change their minds, and the Brexit leave promised has completely failed to materialise, one can say it was the will of the people, but chances are it's no longer the will of the people.

joe40 · 22-03-2019 02:22PM

I hate that phrase "the will of the people" As if "the people" are one homogenous group and everything is a binary choice

lawred2 · 22-03-2019 02:22PM

Eod100 wrote: »

It's like they're starting all over again. Jaysus

https://twitter.com/KateEMcCann/status/1109077848210456576

I actually burst out laughing reading that tweet. Surreal.

Inquitus · 22-03-2019 02:24PM

lawred2 wrote: »

I actually burst out laughing reading that tweet. Surreal.

At least they have taken Cake and Unicorns off the table!

Balanadan · 22-03-2019 02:24PM

The uncertainty is pain in the arse at this stage, particularly for businesses. I don't think they'll be allowed any further extension unless they have a very clearly defined, coherent plan.

PokeHerKing · 22-03-2019 02:25PM

robinph wrote:

It's just a reminder to MPs that there are people out there who didn't vote leave despite the claims of "will of the people".

It's still painful to see posts dramatically claiming every hour another 100k. I could sign it if I wanted too. Im not a British citizen. I could also sign it from my home pc, my office pc, my mobile, my wife's mobile, my kids (if I had any) mobile etc....

MPs alreadt know that half the people who voted in the referendum do not want Brexit. So can we stop posting it. It won't make a difference nor should it.

Joe_ Public · 22-03-2019 02:27PM

Eod100 wrote: »

It's like they're starting all over again. Jaysus

https://twitter.com/KateEMcCann/status/1109077848210456576

If there’s any substance in it, is it all that a bad thing? Forget the WA if it has no chance of passing and concentrate on finding something - anything - that has a chance of achieving consensus?

An Ciarraioch · 22-03-2019 02:29PM

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Considering nearly 17 million brits already voted against Brexit why is this online petition getting so many reposts!?

Who cares, its a bloody online petition that you could realistically vote in as many times as you like.

No, people who attempted to sign twice, in order to test the system, were automatically e-mailed to tell them they could only sign once.

Eod100 · 22-03-2019 02:30PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

If there’s any substance in it, is it all that a bad thing? Forget the WA if it has no chance of passing and concentrate on finding something - anything - that has a chance of achieving consensus?

Just that it's nearly 3 years since referendum and they're only doing this now. And widening the options would surely mean consensus might be harder to achieve. May was always going with her deal or no deal, she seems to have lost all her authority. Can't have long left

Inquitus · 22-03-2019 02:30PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

If there’s any substance in it, is it all that a bad thing? Forget the WA if it has no chance of passing and concentrate on finding something - anything - that has a chance of achieving consensus?

It's not a bad thing, Parliament has a remain majority, so with their minds focused they should be able to come up with something less harmful to us than both No Deal and the WA.

Igotadose · 22-03-2019 02:31PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

If there’s any substance in it, is it all that a bad thing? Forget the WA if it has no chance of passing and concentrate on finding something - anything - that has a chance of achieving consensus?

1000 days so far. What can they change in the next 7 (till the 29th), or the next 21 (to 12 April). They have a deal on the table. It's either that, no deal, or repeal article 50.

Shelga · 22-03-2019 02:33PM

JeffKenna wrote: »

But it is the will of the people. How can you claim that its not?

Because it's not a binary choice, and it should never have been framed as such. What on earth is wrong with going back to the people with a far more detailed choice between Remain and May's deal?

Would any responsible government allow No Deal to be put on a ballot paper? Is there a possibility that the ERG will support the Kyle-Wilson amendment on the condition that No Deal is listed as an option?

RobertKK · 22-03-2019 02:33PM

It looks like everything will be done by the UK to now avoid no deal. The EU came to a very intelligent compromise, whatever happens from here on, if a no deal was to happen through UK incompetence, the UK will fully own it.

An Ciarraioch · 22-03-2019 02:35PM

Joe_ Public wrote: »

If there’s any substance in it, is it all that a bad thing? Forget the WA if it has no chance of passing and concentrate on finding something - anything - that has a chance of achieving consensus?

Indeed - it's the very implication of what the EU said when they sought a road map from the House of Commons before April 12th.

robinph · 22-03-2019 02:37PM

PokeHerKing wrote: »

It's still painful to see posts dramatically claiming every hour another 100k. I could sign it if I wanted too. Im not a British citizen. I could also sign it from my home pc, my office pc, my mobile, my wife's mobile, my kids (if I had any) mobile etc....

The same goes for the counter petition that has been open for months and is stuck on the 300,000 mark.

PokeHerKing wrote: »

MPs alreadt know that half the people who voted in the referendum do not want Brexit. So can we stop posting it. It won't make a difference nor should it.

Not sure that they do when there is so much talk of will of the people being respected as justification for a crash out of the EU. If the will of the people were to be being followed then we'd be getting a 50% brexit with something still EU'ish and some things not.

Unless they are going to claim that annoying both extremes equally was the aim all along because of the 50/50 vote.

Joe_ Public · 22-03-2019 02:38PM

Eod100 wrote: »

Just that it's nearly 3 years since referendum and they're only doing this now. And widening the options would surely mean consensus might be harder to achieve. May was always going with her deal or no deal, she seems to have lost all her authority. Can't have long left

Yes true, it’s all very frustrating but if her deal has no chance of passing, which seems likely, i struggle to see any much more palatable options. I assume it would necessitate somehow getting the longer extension though. Ins and outs are still a bit perplexing.

Edit: just to say I wouldn’t be convinced no.10 is coming up with this latest strategy on its own bat. Could be pressure coming from various sources though hate to speculate which ones.

BonnieSituation · 22-03-2019 02:41PM

Inquitus wrote: »

As it is a process of elimination even running 3 candidates does not impact the ERG's chances of success, as each one is eliminated their votes can move onto the next best ERG option and so on and so forth.

Wait a minute? The Tories use STV? Well I never!

Kermit.de.frog · 22-03-2019 02:44PM

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1109084146440331265

Which of the 7 options is likely to be most favored in the HoC though?

An Ciarraioch · 22-03-2019 02:48PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1109084146440331265

Which of the 7 options is likely to be most favored in the HoC though?

EEA is already Labour policy, and the SNP have voiced support for it in the past, so between them, Tory Remainers and potentially the Lib Dems, there's 350+ MPs who would back it.

Enzokk · 22-03-2019 02:51PM

Zubeneschamali wrote: »

And last time, Leadsom (the Leave candidate) was losing badly to May (continuity Remain candidate) when she withdrew, so perhaps the Tory party members are not quite as nutty as they say they are in those polls.

I know others have replied already but the campaign to become PM hadn't even started yet before Leadsom withdrew. The final 2 candidates were known on the 7th July, she made her comments on the 9th July and she withdrew on the 11th July. The result was only expected on the 9th September after a mail in ballot so there was still a lot of time before anyone knew what each candidate stood for. I think there was enough time for either to win or lose the election if Leadsom didn't rush out to do it at the very start line.

I mean we saw how terrible May is at electioneering and I don't think she has suddenly gotten bad at it.

Kermit.de.frog · 22-03-2019 02:51PM

An Ciarraioch wrote: »

EEA is already Labour policy, and the SNP have voiced support for it in the past, so between them, Tory Remainers and potentially the Lib Dems, there's 350+ MPs who would back it.

But that is not Brexit.

That's being in the single market, accepting all the rules and having zero say in those rules.

From a sovereignty perspective it's infinitely worse than being a full EU member country.

A lot of people would not be happy with that, not just the Brexiters.

Enzokk · 22-03-2019 02:53PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

But that is not Brexit.

That's being in the single market, accepting all the rules and having zero say in those rules.

From a sovereignty perspective it's infinitely worse than being a full EU member country.

A lot of people would not be happy with that, not just the Brexiters.

This was the question asked,

"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

EEA is not membership of the EU and it will have fulfilled on the question asked during the referendum.

PokeHerKing · 22-03-2019 02:54PM

Shelga wrote:

Because it's not a binary choice, and it should never have been framed as such. What on earth is wrong with going back to the people with a far more detailed choice between Remain and May's deal?

Nothing wrong with going back to the people but in the same breath claiming the online petition could or should be used to revoke is double standards.

ancapailldorcha · 22-03-2019 02:55PM

PokeHerKing wrote: »

Nothing wrong with going back to the people but in the same breath claiming the online petition could or should be used to revoke is double standards.

Nobody is saying that. All a petition can do is force a debate in Parliament.

Joe_ Public · 22-03-2019 02:56PM

Kermit.de.frog wrote: »

https://twitter.com/paulwaugh/status/1109084146440331265

Which of the 7 options is likely to be most favored in the HoC though?

I thought second ref was a good option when it seemed possible to tag it to the pms deal, not so sure how it goes down isolated on its own. Pm deal and no deal will be bottom two, after that I’d hate to hazard a guess.

Kermit.de.frog · 22-03-2019 02:57PM

Enzokk wrote: »

This was the question asked,

"Should the United Kingdom remain a member of the European Union or leave the European Union?"

EEA is not membership of the EU and it will have fulfilled on the question asked during the referendum.

It would make the UK a vassal state of the EU.

Simple as that. All the rules, no say.

Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

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