Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

Headshot · 22-03-2019 12:30AM

PropJoe10 wrote: »

That's been her mistake from day 1. If she'd spent less time pandering to the ERG and the DUP and more time trying to reach out across parliament with indicative votes and taking other points on board to try to build a deal that could command a majority in the HoC, she probably wouldn't be in this mess. I don't have an ounce of sympathy for her.

She cares more about her party than her own country. She's suppose to be a leader for all rather than a leader for just a small minority.

It's disgraceful behaviour by a public servant

Laois_Man · 22-03-2019 12:32AM

Question Time gone into depth about N. Ireland politics regarding the Stormont Assembly

I dare say 90% of Britain had switched off

axer · 22-03-2019 12:32AM

Sky news saying can scrub out March 29th as leaving date and the new date is April 12th. Does that new date not require a change in legislation thus a vote in the house of commons or am I missing something?

Kermit.de.frog · 22-03-2019 12:33AM

Seems to be a lot of English accents in this BBC QT audience for a show in NI.

dresden8 · 22-03-2019 12:33AM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

There will be no crash out at all. No one wants or needs that apart from a few Farage/R Mogg/Francois supporters.

We really do have to give a voice to those other than that cohort. Things change, there is much more information out there for the implications of Hard Brexit today than there was back in 2016, which was a kick in the teeth to the powers that be, without any explanation as to what it would mean for those other than those who will benefit.

Sky news reporting EU has blinked because they just realised May was serious about crashing out. ERG are going to love this.

Turns out we do need them more than they need us.

Big mistake.

Spanish Eyes · 22-03-2019 12:33AM

Headshot wrote: »

He cares more about her party than her own country. She's suppose to be a leader for all rather than a leader for just a small minority.

It's disgraceful behaviour by a public servant

It really is unbelievable that the HoC has knocked down the WA, but simultaneously do NOT want a no deal.

Surely that is totally contradictory?

What the heck DO they want is what everyone is asking, but there is no response is there?

PropJoe10 · 22-03-2019 12:34AM

Headshot wrote: »

He cares more about her party than her own country. She's suppose to be a leader for all rather than a leader for just a small minority.

It's disgraceful behaviour by a public servant

She keeps going on about respecting the democratic process, yet at the same time, she's shown absolutely zero interest in engaging with members of parliament that were elected to represent their constituents.

I admire her tenacity a lot, but outside of that, I think she's behaved extremely poorly and has brought the majority of this on herself. You could also say it goes back to when she called that snap election to try to get a huge majority in the Commons, which backfired badly. The whole thing has been a shambles, and as the PM she should be carrying the can for it, not the elected MPs in the Commons.

Personally, I think that if the Commons rejects her deal again, that'll be the beginning of the end of Brexit.

Water John · 22-03-2019 12:36AM

There is no HOC alternative response because Govn't (Leadsom) controls the business of the House.
We may now begin to get indicitive votes, only because leaders of other countries insisted on it.

Donald Trump · 22-03-2019 12:36AM

dresden8 wrote: »

I remember when the EU said "This is the deal, no changes"

Now they have invited her to come back with something new.

Err....hello? Have they never met the Brits?

My interpretation is different.

If she ratifies the WA next week then the UK has until May to get the necessary legislation in place.

If not, then she only gets until 12th April for them to decide to either revoke or crash out.

I don't anticipate any changes to the WA.

Only change I see to the above is if she doesn't ratify the WA next week, gets until April 12th and then ratifies it on April 11th. In which case the final date can be pushed back a bit, but the difference is that they will have to elect MEPs

Panrich · 22-03-2019 12:36AM

dresden8 wrote: »

Sky news reporting EU has blinked because they just realised May was serious about crashing out. ERG are going to love this.

Turns out we do need them more than they need us.

Big mistake.

The EU have undermined May's tactic for her deal or no deal. They have added another option to extend with alternative plans. No matter what happens from here, the EU can say that they tried their best and the decision is all on the UK side.

Professor Moriarty · 22-03-2019 12:37AM

dresden8 wrote: »

Sky news reporting EU has blinked because they just realised May was serious about crashing out. ERG are going to love this.

Turns out we do need them more than they need us.

Big mistake.

I don't think so. They're bigging her up to help get the WA across the line. It's all about massaging Tory elitists' egos so they think they're 'winning'.

ShooterSF · 22-03-2019 12:37AM

Am I wrong in thinking that even if a vote of no confidence in the government passes there is then 10 days to try and form a new government? But that the Conservatives can't actually oust TM as leader due to their own no confidence vote so any government they propose would still involve her?

Spanish Eyes · 22-03-2019 12:38AM

dresden8 wrote: »

Sky news reporting EU has blinked because they just realised May was serious about crashing out. ERG are going to love this.

Turns out we do need them more than they need us.

Big mistake.

Someone somewhere has to bring this to a head. EU will prevail. I hope so because if UK do I will be a bit cross to be honest!

I have no worries about a deal being good for everyone, but I honestly would despair of the hubris of UK now, god help us.

dresden8 · 22-03-2019 12:39AM

Panrich wrote: »

The EU have undermined May's tactic for her deal or no deal. They have added another option to extend with alternative plans. No matter what happens from here, the EU can say that they tried their best and the decision is all on the UK side.

Daily Mail headline says same.

Victory for May.

PropJoe10 · 22-03-2019 12:39AM

dresden8 wrote: »

Sky news reporting EU has blinked because they just realised May was serious about crashing out. ERG are going to love this.

Turns out we do need them more than they need us.

Big mistake.

I dont see it like that at all, I think the EU realise that May's deal is a non-runner in the HoC and they're angling it towards a long extension and the potential ending of Brexit altogether.

I think this is a win for the EU, rather than for May - May seems quite happy with a No Deal, which is now effectively off the table due to tonight's development.

Headshot · 22-03-2019 12:40AM

Panrich wrote: »

The EU have undermined May's tactic for her deal or no deal. They have added another option to extend with alternative plans. No matter what happens from here, the EU can say that they tried their best and the decision is all on the UK side.

Yup I think the EU played a blinder here

They cannot be blamed for a no deal brexit and it's all in the UK's lap if they want a deal or not

FrancieBrady · 22-03-2019 12:41AM

dresden8 wrote: »

Daily Mail headline says same.

Victory for May.

If the Mail are calling it a victory, it was a worse humiliation than we thought.

dresden8 · 22-03-2019 12:41AM

Spanish Eyes wrote: »

Someone somewhere has to bring this to a head. EU will prevail. I hope so because if UK do I will be a bit cross to be honest!

I have no worries about a deal being good for everyone, but I honestly would despair of the hubris of UK now, god help us.

It was going to be brought to a head this week.

EU have backed down.

You can't negotiate with perfidious Albion.

You win or you lose.

That's it.

joe40 · 22-03-2019 12:42AM

The guy on Sky news saying the EU have kicked the can down the road again.
What is he talking about, they have essentially been given 2 weeks. That is all.

brendanwalsh · 22-03-2019 12:42AM

Bottom line now is neither eu or UK will allow no deal to ever go through.

Water John · 22-03-2019 12:43AM

Now May and the UK owns No Deal if that comes about on the 12th April.

dresden8 · 22-03-2019 12:43AM

Headshot wrote: »

Yup I think the EU played a blinder here

They cannot be blamed for a no deal brexit and it's all in the UK's lap if they want a deal or not

What's this blame crap? It's meaningless.

The Telegraph is never going to turn around and say "You know what, we were wrong all along."

Anteayer · 22-03-2019 12:45AM

The EU's only objective is to get this over and done with without undermining the EU and its members. That doesn’t mean that the UK gets a particularly wonderful deal, but it does mean that the aim is that it withdraws in an orderly manner without causing turmoil.

Form an Irish point of view, having the UK just crash out in a ranting and raving self harm kind of episode is absolutely not a good scenario for us. However having them managed out isn’t the worst outcome as we end up with significant advantages as the English speaking gateway to Europe.

I mean I think we are all fed up with them and would love to see them eat humble pie but at the same time having a UK in complete meltdown isn’t really a great outcome either.

They’re not going to “win” any more than a spoiled toddler does on an episode of Super Nanny.

Donald Trump · 22-03-2019 12:46AM

Anyone else a bit disappointed though that we have to endure another few weeks of the same?

It will be worth it on a practical note if they get the WA passed, but other than that, if we are all going to have to crash and burn, 28th is as good as two weeks later!

MikeSoys · 22-03-2019 12:46AM

dresden8 wrote: »

What's this blame crap? It's meaningless.

The Telegraph is never going to turn around and say "You know what, we were wrong all along."

From a historical viewpoint it will imply EU done everything it could to avoid a no deal...

Donald Trump · 22-03-2019 12:49AM

MikeSoys wrote: »

From a historical viewpoint it will imply EU done everything it could to avoid a no deal...

EU has to deal with Brexit-equivalent movements in other countries.

No harm giving fuel to the fire of the "evil EU" in a year or two if the UK is still in flames and people think they should have done more to prevent the UK from self-destructing.

That's all they are doing, giving them a little bit of time to pull back from the edge of the cliff rather than jumping.

LuckyLloyd · 22-03-2019 12:49AM

theguzman wrote: »

I have been saying it for a long time but a crash out is inevitable and they want this but also want to blame the EU for the short term disruption it will cause. No Deal here we come. A hard Brexit will be the only acceptable outcome. Arlene Foster has delivered for the DUP and the Brexiteers won the referendum and anything else other than a hard Brexit would be ant-democratic.

That is incorrect and unfounded. 'No Deal' was not on the ballot paper, leaving the SM was not on the ballot paper - senior leave voices never talked about an economically catastrophic exit. Current opinion polling fails to show any dominant opinion in favour of No Deal. Moreover, the people of Northern Ireland decisively voted to remain, and they will be the most adversely affected by No Deal.

To be frank, your post is nonsense and lacks any worthwhile substance. But you are fully aware of that, aren't you.

Spanish Eyes · 22-03-2019 12:50AM

Well I suppose it was always going to come down to a battle between UK leavers and the so called intransigent EU.

My hope is that WA is allowed another vote by Bercow with the amended withdrawal date, and whilst it is not perfect, everyone, EU, UK, Parliament, public opinion knows it is far better than a NO DEAL exit forthwith with not a sketch of a plan as Tusk said.

We shall see where pragmatism, intelligence, and looking after the people instead of the parties leads us.

We live in interesting times.

devnull · 22-03-2019 12:50AM

From what we've seen tonight, it confirms what we already know, the ERG are in charge of Number 10.

There was talk yesterday that she would go for a long extension if her deal fails until she had a meeting that included representatives of the ERG. She then came out with her statement pretty much saying that Brexit will not be delayed any further than the end of June no matter what and framed it as her deal vs no deal.

Tonight she is back to talking about if she doesn't get her vote through it means that she will come back to the EU before 12 April with a plan for the way forward, potentially delaying the deal for longer and looking at what other options may be on the table. This is at odds with her post ERG meeting response last night and is more in line with her pre ERG meeting plans.

It's there for all to see that May is now a puppet of the ERG, who are effectively in charge of Number 10 now. They know that whatever she says, if they kick up enough fuss she will fall in line to whatever they want. No doubt tomorrow the ERG will apply pressure and she'll be back to her deal or no deal once more.

What May has said tonight is worth absolutely nothing because we all know, what she says off her own back and what she says after the ERG have had their say, are often poles apart.

charlie14 · 22-03-2019 12:51AM

dresden8 wrote: »

Sky news reporting EU has blinked because they just realised May was serious about crashing out. ERG are going to love this.

Turns out we do need them more than they need us.

Big mistake.

I heard that but he didn`t seem to know what this so called blinking was or what advantage it was to the UK.

Whatever point he was attempting to make I imagine his remark that May was happy to crash out with no deal, wasn`t missed by all those MPs who voted no crash out.

Brexit discussion thread VIII (Please read OP before posting)

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