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Madeleine McCann

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Comments

  • #4052
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote:
    Considering that it's 12 years since the little girl went missing and this case is still in the public domain and that we are discussing it on this forum proves that the parents were correct in choosing not to take the "advice" of the Portuguese police.


    That is not proof of anything tbh and a ridiculous position to arrive at.


  • #4053
    jimwallace197
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,134 ✭✭✭jimwallace197


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    It takes roughly 7 minutes to walk from 5A Rua Dr Agostinho da Silva(McCanns Apartment) to rua da escola primária where Smith supposedly spotted the abductor and Madeleine.

    This would have indicated the abduction took place around 9:50pm as Kate realized she was missing at 10pm.

    Matthew Oldfield checked the apartment around 9:30pm, heard something but thought it was possibly a child turning in their bed. (Possibly the abductor)

    20 minutes for the abductor to be messing around. (Doesnt seem plausible)

    So, the abductor enters sometime between 9:30 and 10pm.

    Now, its important to remember, he most likely has been watching the apartment and studying the checks, every 30 mins or so. Likely he enters not long after Oldfied leaves, maybe 9:40pm. 20 minutes to do what he needs to do. Ample time.

    Smith Sighting description:
    The man was mid-30s, 5 ft 7 in–5 ft 9 in (1.75–1.80 m), slim-to-normal build, with short brown hair, wearing cream or beige trousers. He did not look like a tourist, according to the Smiths, and had seemed uncomfortable carrying the child.

    The gards interviewed Smith in this country, found him credible, not looking for attention. The main issue with his sighting though is that it doesn't fit the description of the false charity workers in the days before the disappearance.

    The lady who spotted the man above the apartment of the McCanns spotted a man acted very stealthily on the day she dissappeared. She describes him as caucasion, light skinned, in the thirty to forty range, about 5'10 to 5'11 i height. Very very close to what Gerry McCann is.

    All of this leads me to believe, more than one man was involved in this disappearance which heightens the chances of one of them cracking


  • #4054
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 3,280 ✭ [Deleted User]


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    pc7 wrote: »
    Straw poll ....
    ...1 - Abductor had been watching and came in the open door...

    At this stage it's number 1 for me.

    Would've been more suspicious of the McCann parents before but finding out the full extent of the claims of weirdos knocking about Praia changed my mind.

    - The mother who came down the stairs to find a man in her house approaching her daughter. Same man had called looking for donations for a nonexistent orphanage a few days previous and was staring at the kid through the door when the mother answered.

    - The story about the kid who woke up to a strange man on her bed.


  • #4055
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Something Else
    This is the photofit described by Martin Smith. Does Gerry have a twin??


  • #4056
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    jimwallace197 wrote: »
    It takes roughly 7 minutes to walk from 5A Rua Dr Agostinho da Silva(McCanns Apartment) to rua da escola primária where Smith supposedly spotted the abductor and Madeleine.

    This would have indicated the abduction took place around 9:50pm as Kate realized she was missing at 10pm.

    Matthew Oldfield checked the apartment around 9:30pm, heard something but thought it was possibly a child turning in their bed. (Possibly the abductor)

    20 minutes for the abductor to be messing around. (Doesnt seem plausible)

    So, the abductor enters sometime between 9:30 and 10pm.

    Now, its important to remember, he most likely has been watching the apartment and studying the checks, every 30 mins or so. Likely he enters not long after Oldfied leaves, maybe 9:40pm. 20 minutes to do what he needs to do. Ample time.

    Smith Sighting description:
    The man was mid-30s, 5 ft 7 in–5 ft 9 in (1.75–1.80 m), slim-to-normal build, with short brown hair, wearing cream or beige trousers. He did not look like a tourist, according to the Smiths, and had seemed uncomfortable carrying the child.

    The gards interviewed Smith in this country, found him credible, not looking for attention. The main issue with his sighting though is that it doesn't fit the description of the false charity workers in the days before the disappearance.

    The lady who spotted the man above the apartment of the McCanns spotted a man acted very stealthily on the day she dissappeared. She describes him as caucasion, light skinned, in the thirty to forty range, about 5'10 to 5'11 i height. Very very close to what Gerry McCann is.

    All of this leads me to believe, more than one man was involved in this disappearance which heightens the chances of one of them cracking

    Maybe Smith isn't great at judging heights?

    It doesn't seem too far out anyway

    Gerry McCann looks average size 5'9-5'10 range to me if Kate is 5'6-5'7

    Smith photofit is the image of Gerry


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  • #4057
    Mike9832
    Closed Accounts Posts: 1,912 ✭✭✭Mike9832


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    This is the photofit described by Martin Smith. Does Gerry have a twin??

    It does


  • #4058
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,260 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    weldoninhio wrote: »
    This is the photofit described by Martin Smith. Does Gerry have a twin??

    In fairness Mr Smith already had an image of Gerry in his head from the high profile media exposure


  • #4059
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    iamwhoiam wrote:
    In fairness Mr Smith already had an image of Gerry in his head from the high profile media exposure


    Now that's impressive grasping.


  • #4060
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,260 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Now that's impressive grasping.

    I am grasping at nothing . I simply have an open mind . Do you just enjoy picking holes in every post .
    Mr Smith already knew what Gerry looked like so of course it would be a factor in his recall


  • #4061
    dark crystal
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,962 ✭✭✭✭dark crystal


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    weldoninhio wrote: »
    This is the photofit described by Martin Smith. Does Gerry have a twin??


    Spectacular memory Martin Smith has, seeing a guy with his head bowed on a dark street for a matter of seconds and being able to come up with such a detailed description.


    At least the twin theory would explain how Gerry was in two places at once!


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  • #4062
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    iamwhoiam wrote:
    I am grasping at nothing . I simply have an open mind . Do you just enjoy picking holes in every post . Mr Smith already knew what Gerry looked like so of course it would be a factor in his recall


    Yet he claimed it was the way McCann moved that triggered his memory.


  • #4063
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Something Else
    iamwhoiam wrote: »
    In fairness Mr Smith already had an image of Gerry in his head from the high profile media exposure

    I’m sure he had an image of David Beckham in his head too from the high profile media exposure, but the picture doesn’t look like Becks.


  • #4064
    weldoninhio
    Closed Accounts Posts: 14,311 ✭✭✭✭weldoninhio


    Something Else
    dark crystal wrote: »
    Spectacular memory Martin Smith has, seeing a guy with his head bowed on a dark street for a matter of seconds and being able to come up with such a detailed description.


    At least the twin theory would explain how Gerry was in two places at once!

    Martin Smiths receipt showed 9:55 as when they paid up. Did anyone check to make sure the bar till clock was at the correct time?? 10-15 minutes either way would make a lot of difference.


  • #4065
    TallGlass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,908 ✭✭✭TallGlass


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    Another questions that occurred to me.

    Did the search dogs ever pick up anything on the night?


  • #4066
    iamwhoiam
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 16,260 ✭✭✭✭iamwhoiam


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    weldoninhio wrote: »
    I’m sure he had an image of David Beckham in his head too from the high profile media exposure, but the picture doesn’t look like Becks.

    Totally irrelevant here . Martin Smith was making a statement that he thought he might have seen Gerry not David Beckham . He made the statement about a sighting in P da L the night Madeleine went missing . Of course it affects his recall .


  • #4067
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    weldoninhio wrote: »
    This is the photofit described by Martin Smith. Does Gerry have a twin??

    Why do you put so much weight in one persons eye witness testimony, eye witness testimony and photofits are very unreliable?


  • #4068
    Plumbthedepths
    Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    iamwhoiam wrote:
    Totally irrelevant here . Martin Smith was making a statement that he thought he might have seen Gerry not David Beckham . He made the statement about a sighting in P da L the night Madeleine went missing . Of course it affects his recall .


    He has stuck by the claim up to recently as far as I can tell. He also went as far as to contact BBC'S Panorama programme after it claimed he recanted in a programme it broadcast. The programme accepted they were incorrect.


  • #4069
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Something Else
    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    Yet he claimed it was the way McCann moved that triggered his memory.

    Afsik regarding the e-fit - it wasn't just Martin Smith who saw the individual carrying the child. Other members of his family also provided descriptions.


  • #4070
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 4,806 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Something Else
    Plumbthedepths wrote: »
    He has stuck by the claim up to recently as far as I can tell. He also went as far as to contact BBC'S Panorama programme after it claimed he recanted in a programme it broadcast. The programme accepted they were incorrect.

    That’s disgusting how they aired that program to the nation with false information and only admitted fault discreetly after


  • #4071
    brendanwalsh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 988 ✭✭✭brendanwalsh


    Something Else
    Episode 4 is very good with the dogs and dna evidence.

    I'd say Kate did the deed, and gerry covered up for her.


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  • #4072
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,168 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    TallGlass wrote: »
    Another questions that occurred to me.

    Did the search dogs ever pick up anything on the night?

    4 sniffer dogs arrived at 08:00 on the 4th of May and later in the evening, 4 more sniffer dogs were brought in, bringing the number to 8. http://mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/GNR_SNIFFER.htm

    They did appear to react at the door of an unoccupied apartment.


  • #4073
    yourdeadwright
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 20,953 ✭✭✭✭yourdeadwright


    Accident happened, parents hid body
    Is there any evidence to back up the romour that the big bins where collected that night at 4 am ?
    Never seen it mentioned on the docu which is odd cause that would seem the perfect way to get rid of a body


  • #4074
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,168 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    yourdeadwright wrote: »
    Is there any evidence to back up the romour that the big bins where collected that night at 4 am ?
    Never seen it mentioned on the docu which is odd cause that would seem the perfect way to get rid of a body

    They searched in the bins before then. I am pretty sure the GNR who were searching by then would have stopped the bin crews and sent them on their way.


  • #4075
    v638sg7k1a92bx
    Closed Accounts Posts: 2,913 ✭✭✭v638sg7k1a92bx


    brendanwalsh wrote: »
    Episode 4 is very good with the dogs and dna evidence.

    I'd say Kate did the deed, and gerry covered up for her.

    The sniffer dogs have been discredited as reliable evidence.


  • #4076
    brendanwalsh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 988 ✭✭✭brendanwalsh


    Something Else
    Well it's all adding to the suspicion of the case. Too much stuff that has to be explained away.
    Why did the McCanns delete their phone records


  • #4077
    cnocbui
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 21,168 ✭✭✭✭cnocbui


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    brendanwalsh wrote: »
    Well it's all adding to the suspicion of the case. Too much stuff that has to be explained away.
    Why did the McCanns delete their phone records

    Gerry said it was to free up space. It's not very meaningful as deleting calls and txts has no effect on the call histories the phone providers keep for years. The PJ looked into and got those call records then followed up on the calls, finding out where they originated and where they went. I understand Gerry got a lot of automated messages from Vodafone informing him of missed calls and voice messages. It's all in the PJ files. http://www.mccannpjfiles.co.uk/PJ/DELETED_CALLS.htm


  • #4078
    gozunda
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 18,996 ✭✭✭✭gozunda


    Something Else
    Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »
    The sniffer dogs have been discredited as reliable evidence.

    If you mean the dogs Eddie and Keela then incorrect. The dogs were used to indicate the location of biological markers which were subject to further analysis. In this case the dogs alerted to both cardaver and human blood indicators. Unfortunately the amount of material collected following the use of the dogs in the area adjacent to the sofa was not sufficient to determine what kind of bodily fluid made up the DNA sample.

    But, as would be later noted by the handler of sniffer dog Keela, this canine was only trained to alert to human blood, nothing else. Ditto hthe other dog Eddie which was trained to alert to the scent of human cadaverine coming from dead bodies.

    With regard to the indicators detected in the car by the dogs too complex for meaningful inclusion and interpretation” due to presence of multiple genetic sequences.


  • #4079
    Creol1
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 554 ✭✭✭Creol1


    Something Else
    Tristen Hissing Typhoon wrote: »
    That they choose to ignore the police "advice", if that was their advice, is somehow an indication of their guilt? I fail to see understand your thought process.

    Considering that it's 12 years since the little girl went missing and this case is still in the public domain and that we are discussing it on this forum proves that the parents were correct in choosing not to take the "advice" of the Portuguese police.

    The point is that if they really believed she had been abducted, they would have given more thought to the possible consequences of mass media coverage in terms of influencing the abductor to take precipitous action and kill her.

    Of course, people panicking don't always think straight, so it's not proof of anything in itself, but anyway that's the rationale of the police in recommending as they did.


  • #4080
    cgcsb
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,042 ✭✭✭✭cgcsb


    Something Else
    I'd like Kate to tell us her theory about the kids being sedated in more detail

    Sedative options:

    -a pill, ....too slow acting
    -an injection....it was dark, too messy, would leave marks
    -a liquid on a rag of some sort....would leave an obvious odour and forensic evidence

    All three options fail because there were 3 kids, the element of surprise isn't there, at least one would scream bloody murder and in every scenario the twins would remember it when they came to and blab, they could talk at that point. The only thing that makes sense for abduction is the kids being already tranquilized.


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  • #4081
    TallGlass
    Closed Accounts Posts: 4,908 ✭✭✭TallGlass


    She wandered out herself, something happened (car accident/paedo)
    cgcsb wrote: »
    I'd like Kate to tell us her theory about the kids being sedated in more detail

    Sedative options:

    -a pill, ....too slow acting
    -an injection....it was dark, too messy, would leave marks
    -a liquid on a rag of some sort....would leave an obvious odour and forensic evidence

    All three options fail because there were 3 kids, the element of surprise isn't there, at least one would scream bloody murder and in every scenario the twins would remember it when they came to and blab, they could talk at that point. The only thing that makes sense for abduction is the kids being already tranquilized.

    Unless one of the staff of the kids club was in on it. Gave them a drug similar to Rohypnol to all 3?

    I dunno. There is little to no evidence. So anything in theory could have happened.

    Until a body shows up or she is found alive or new evidence/witness comes forward. We will never know.

    Is the DNA evidence purely unusable or has the tech just not been developed yet.

    I was watching the Forensic Files on Netflix and an unsolvable case they preserved the DNA. Eventually a process was developed to render the DNA useable and they found the killer. Could this sample/s taken ever be used. Mind you the sample taken had the killers DNA.


This discussion has been closed.
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