Rory McIlroy - 4 Time Major Winner

Bubbaclaus · 20-03-2019 10:06am

GreeBo wrote: »

Breaking news, you can be the best driver in tournament and still drive the ball poorly.

At your local club's weekend singles tournament maybe, less likely in a PGA Tour field.

If you are trying to argue that the player that came 2nd in the field in driving drove poorly, how would you describe the driving of the 140 players that statistically drove it even worse last week?

GreeBo · 20-03-2019 10:07am

Bubbaclaus wrote: »

At your local club's weekend singles tournament maybe, less likely in a PGA Tour field.

If you are trying to argue that the player that came 2nd in the field in driving drove poorly, how would you describe the driving of the 140 players that statistically drove it even worse last week?

very poorly.

btw I'm not trying to say he drove poorly, at all.
Despite what others might think and for some reason imply.
All I have said was that his driving over the weekend was worse than his driving over the first two days.

FixdePitchmark · 20-03-2019 10:24am

GreeBo wrote: »

Breaking news, you can be the best driver in tournament and still drive the ball poorly. Stevie Wonder could see he drove the ball worse on the weekend than the previous two days, but nope, not you.

I think I've had just about enough of your armchair psycho-stats babble so don't expect a reply as I will no longer see your posts.

A bit childish.

Joe_ Public · 20-03-2019 10:27am

Shouldn’t we add that stats are always a useful guide but don’t always tell you everything? A drive missing by 6 inches in the first cut, for example, is counted the same as one blasted wide into the trees. Also rory, like many others, had drives rick o’sheaing off trees back onto fairways and that kind of good fortune is never reflected in the stats. So there are all kinds of nuances there you have to interpret yourself if you can.

I think weekend was a little bit more difficult than first two days. Rory’s worst drive was on 16 Saturday as alluded to previously, it was a drive struck well but just too aggressive in cutting too much of the corner. In conclusion, while significantly statistically worse than first two days i don’t believe it was in any way a worrying performance off the tee. Said before i take it as a positive, in that it shows how good other less celebrated aspects of his game had to be in order to compensate, and that’s how it seemed to me.

GreeBo · 20-03-2019 10:49am

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Shouldn’t we add that stats are always a useful guide but don’t always tell you everything? A drive missing by 6 inches in the first cut, for example, is counted the same as one blasted wide into the trees. Also rory, like many others, had drives rick o’sheaing off trees back onto fairways and that kind of good fortune is never reflected in the stats. So there are all kinds of nuances there you have to interpret yourself if you can.

I think weekend was a little bit more difficult than first two days. Rory’s worst drive was on 16 Saturday as alluded to previously, it was a drive struck well but just too aggressive in cutting too much of the corner. In conclusion, while significantly statistically worse than first two days i don’t believe it was in any way a worrying performance off the tee. Said before i take it as a positive, in that it shows how good other less celebrated aspects of his game had to be in order to compensate, and that’s how it seemed to me.

Certainly the rest of his game compensated, which is great and led to the victory, but from an general analysis point of view I think it would be remiss to not comment on what seemed to be a significant drop in driving performance over the weekend.
Its equally valid to talk about a drop in one area if we are going to talk about the significant improvement in other areas (which he had)
If its not then thread is not a discussion thread.

Hitch2222 · 20-03-2019 10:52am

FixdePitchmark wrote: »

A bit childish.

Its's weird but it doesn't bother me to be honest as my primary point was armchair psychology added no value so how he concluded I was doing that and not his buddy is beyond me.

I think it's clear for Stevie to also see that Greebo makes a show of himself relatively regularly across multiple forums so I'd only be too delighted for him to avoid replying to me.

That said, I probably won't block him as who doesn't like viewing a bit of cringe on occasion.

Keano · 20-03-2019 10:58am

If he'd not won he would no doubt have put it down to his driving over the weekend. However, he did get the win so I am sure he is not going to dwell too much on the negatives.

Joe_ Public · 20-03-2019 11:00am

GreeBo wrote: »

Certainly the rest of his game compensated, which is great and led to the victory, but from an general analysis point of view I think it would be remiss to not comment on what seemed to be a significant drop in driving performance over the weekend.
Its equally valid to talk about a drop in one area if we are going to talk about the significant improvement in other areas (which he had)
If its not then thread is not a discussion thread.

Yes agree on that. I thought it was fair to point out and said so.

Thing is, though, it’s all ultimately very positive for me. All it says is that Rory is the best in the business off the tee and a couple of less accomplished days (by his high standards) won’t change that. But he’s clearly becoming a better or more consistent putter and that’s way more significant to me. Again, I’m just guessing here, but I think he’s near the top this season from 10 foot in. And he’s looking so much more secure from the 5-6 foot range too. This augurs really well for him if trend continues and see no reason why it shouldn’t. Working his bollix off this year and it’s showing.

prawnsambo · 20-03-2019 11:21am

Keano wrote: »

If he'd not won he would no doubt have put it down to his driving over the weekend. However, he did get the win so I am sure he is not going to dwell too much on the negatives.

Well as I pointed out a few posts ago, he said he was having a problem with his driver on Saturday (which is borne out by his fairways hit stats of around 28%) and did some work on it on Saturday evening. Can't remember what the issue was, but if you look at the actual shot tracks, they weren't big misses. Some in those massive bunkers and others in the intermediate. I think there were only two that found the rough.

Joe_ Public · 20-03-2019 11:24am

I recall on sundays coverage they showed a clip of him coming off the range in the dark late the previous evening. Whatever the issue i think it’s fair to say he ironed it out a fair bit.

Hitch2222 · 20-03-2019 11:30am

I think they should add some additional complexity to make driving accuracy more representative of the impact in various spots.
It seems a tad crude to continue with a binary measure of on/off fairway.

I read this article a few years back https://www.golfdigest.com/story/sanders_gd0809 which suggested some changes but I'm sure some additional measures could be added.

A mate uses this site which is subs based https://www.golfstats.com/

It layers additional complexity on various stats but I'm not quite sure of the logic. Interestingly it had Rory ranked 5th on the week in driving accuracy.

prawnsambo · 20-03-2019 11:30am

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I recall on sundays coverage they showed a clip of him coming off the range in the dark late the previous evening. Whatever the issue i think it’s fair to say he ironed it out a fair bit.

Yeah. And to be fair, the only time on Saturday that he hit the rough and got a bogey as a result was on the first.

Joe_ Public · 20-03-2019 11:36am

prawnsambo wrote: »

Yeah. And to be fair, the only time on Saturday that he hit the rough and got a bogey as a result was on the first.

Yes true, only other thing about Saturday I would point out was he was just level par for the par 5s which I’m not sure was entirely down to his tee shots, but would guess was a contributory factor.

prawnsambo · 20-03-2019 11:39am

Hitch2222 wrote: »

I think they should add some additional complexity to make driving accuracy more representative of the impact in various spots.
It seems a tad crude to continue with a binary measure of on/off fairway.

I read this article a few years back https://www.golfdigest.com/story/sanders_gd0809 which suggested some changes but I'm sure some additional measures could be added.

I think you can look at it in conjunction with the GIR for the round. If you miss fairways a lot, but are still getting a good percentage of GIR, then it's probably fair to say that your drives aren't getting you into too much trouble. Obviously you need to take the par 3s out of that, but it should give you an accurate enough picture. Like if you have to play to one side or other of the fairway to get a good look at the green/flag and you overcook it slightly or get a big bounce and you're in the first cut, you'd probably be very happy with your second shot.

Of course there's the Phil Mickelson approach where you tee off and tell your partners that you'll see them on the green.

Hitch2222 · 20-03-2019 11:43am

prawnsambo wrote: »

I think you can look at it in conjunction with the GIR for the round. If you miss fairways a lot, but are still getting a good percentage of GIR, then it's probably fair to say that your drives aren't getting you into too much trouble. Obviously you need to take the par 3s out of that, but it should give you an accurate enough picture. Like if you have to play to one side or other of the fairway to get a good look at the green/flag and you overcook it slightly or get a big bounce and you're in the first cut, you'd probably be very happy with your second shot.

Of course there's the Phil Mickelson approach where you tee off and tell your partners that you'll see them on the green.

I added that site there that a mate uses, he's in sports betting industry, Golf being super high variance stuff, any edge is welcome.
Bread & butter tends to be match bets.

As I said, McIlroy ranked 5th on the week in driving accuracy. I'd be interested in seeing the underlying logic which contribute to their numbers.

prawnsambo · 20-03-2019 11:46am

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Yes true, only other thing about Saturday I would point out was he was just level par for the par 5s which I’m not sure was entirely down to his tee shots, but would guess was a contributory factor.

The funny thing about that is that he hit every fairway on the par 5s on Saturday bar the 16th where he was in the pine straw on the left. On the 2nd, his second shot went in the rough - bogey, on the 9th he was left and had no shot at the green, so had to lay up - par, on the 11th - birdie and on the 16th he over hit his second into the water - par.

Edit: Just in reference to Hitch's post above, I would suspect that the accuracy referred to would be biased towards position for the next shot. So the situation that I referred to on the 9th basically gave him a very slim chance of a birdie, even though he was on the fairway.

Joe_ Public · 20-03-2019 11:51am

prawnsambo wrote: »

The funny thing about that is that he hit every fairway on the par 5s on Saturday bar the 16th where he was in the pine straw on the left. On the 2nd, his second shot went in the rough - bogey, on the 9th he was left and had no shot at the green, so had to lay up - par, on the 11th - birdie and on the 16th he over hit his second into the water - par.

The drive on 16 i thought he struck sweet as a nut, just tried to be too aggressive with it. Also thought he diced with danger on 18 a bit, but got away with it. Maybe there’s that line for mcilroy between positive aggression and needless risk, but there’s no doubt - as someone posted here last week - it makes him a thrilling golfer to watch.

prawnsambo · 20-03-2019 11:58am

Joe_ Public wrote: »

The drive on 16 i thought he struck sweet as a nut, just tried to be too aggressive with it. Also thought he diced with danger on 18 a bit, but got away with it. Maybe there’s that line for mcilroy between positive aggression and needless risk, but there’s no doubt - as someone posted here last week - it makes him a thrilling golfer to watch.

I think he likes to play a slight cut shot these days rather than the draw of yore. And I think the draw started to reassert itself on Saturday which is what he was working on. I would think that the cut works for him because it lands softer and he doesn't get that run that can get him into trouble on what would otherwise be a great drive. So they look great and all of us here would donate body parts to have something like it, but for him, it's a bit too troublesome because of his length.

GreeBo · 20-03-2019 12:15pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

I think he likes to play a slight cut shot these days rather than the draw of yore. And I think the draw started to reassert itself on Saturday which is what he was working on. I would think that the cut works for him because it lands softer and he doesn't get that run that can get him into trouble on what would otherwise be a great drive. So they look great and all of us here would donate body parts to have something like it, but for him, it's a bit too troublesome because of his length.

Fairways were soft though, so even there wasnt going to be big bounces or run offs, Even though he did well out of most of them, hitting a fairway bunker from the tee still has to be counted as a miss, he got great lies most of the time but on one hole on Sunday he was about a foot away from being in a lump of hay and thought he was in it himself.

He made an interesting comment in one of the interviews that basically he thinks so far this year he has maybe stopped hitting what was "maybe the wrong shot" and getting himself in trouble, which is a really good sign of improved maturity imo. Even if he still does it the odd time, at least he knows that he does it and hopefully he will listen if the diamond geezer jumps in, unlike mr Rahm.

prawnsambo · 20-03-2019 12:35pm

GreeBo wrote: »

Fairways were soft though, so even there wasnt going to be big bounces or run offs, Even though he did well out of most of them, hitting a fairway bunker from the tee still has to be counted as a miss, he got great lies most of the time but on one hole on Sunday he was about a foot away from being in a lump of hay and thought he was in it himself.

He made an interesting comment in one of the interviews that basically he thinks so far this year he has maybe stopped hitting what was "maybe the wrong shot" and getting himself in trouble, which is a really good sign of improved maturity imo. Even if he still does it the odd time, at least he knows that he does it and hopefully he will listen if the diamond geezer jumps in, unlike mr Rahm.

I get the impression that he talks a lot more with Harry Diamond about shots than he did with JP. It's only based on what we see on TV, but they are usually in close proximity and talking before he takes on a shot.

Hitch2222 · 20-03-2019 1:03pm

prawnsambo wrote: »

Edit: Just in reference to Hitch's post above, I would suspect that the accuracy referred to would be biased towards position for the next shot. So the situation that I referred to on the 9th basically gave him a very slim chance of a birdie, even though he was on the fairway.

That's interesting, that would very cool if that's being modeled as it would be quite a complex statistical model to integrate.

I was thinking more along the lines of what that article alluded to, X distance from fairway, adjustments for rough, depth, weather.

Golf offers a great playground to test variables for sports stats but it's so complex given the amount of open skills involved.

20-03-2019 4:37pm

Hitch2222 wrote: »

That's interesting, that would very cool if that's being modeled as it would be quite a complex statistical model to integrate.

I was thinking more along the lines of what that article alluded to, X distance from fairway, adjustments for rough, depth, weather.

Golf offers a great playground to test variables for sports stats but it's so complex given the amount of open skills involved.

I think the stat good drives covers what prawnsambo says.

https://www.pgatour.com/stats/stat.02438.html

charlieIRL · 20-03-2019 7:30pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

I recall on sundays coverage they showed a clip of him coming off the range in the dark late the previous evening. Whatever the issue i think it’s fair to say he ironed it out a fair bit.

Tim Barter asked him about it in the interview before Sundays round and McIlroy admitted he worked on his driving and it was a slight timing issue that was the problem on Saturday.

I think we're getting very hung up on this one topic here as well too.

GreeBo · 20-03-2019 8:35pm

charlieIRL wrote: »

Tim Barter asked him about it in the interview before Sundays round and McIlroy admitted he worked on his driving and it was a slight timing issue that was the problem on Saturday.

I think we're getting very hung up on this one topic here as well too.

I don't think discussing it is getting hung up on it?

Its just an observation i don't think anyone is really saying it's a huge issue or anything.

prawnsambo · 21-03-2019 8:57am

GreeBo wrote: »

I don't think discussing it is getting hung up on it?

Its just an observation i don't think anyone is really saying it's a huge issue or anything.

Yeah, it strikes me that he would have had these sorts of issues mid-tournament before and been unable to fix them so quickly. I wonder is that something that Harry Diamond would be spotting; they've both been coached by Michael Bannon and played together since they were juniors.

Pogue eile · 21-03-2019 3:31pm

ThomasFlynn wrote: »

Rory isn't the type of guy to win 8-10 tournaments like Tiger was.

He's consistently shown throughout his career he wins 1 or 2 per year on average, so a streak isn't likely.

Wouldn't rule him out for the masters though.

In 2014 he won 4 tournaments out of 6, including 2 majors and a WGC.

Dav010 wrote: »

But why does this seem to bother you and a few others so much? It’s a discussion forum, posters will not always have the same opinions. This thread keeps getting derailed because posters like you take criticisms of the topic personally, it is really strange.

It's not the criticism at all and of course every athlete is open to criticism and it is part and parcel for anyone working in the public eye, however the issue that I have is firstly the unbalanced and irrational nature of most of it and secondly and far more significantly the undoubted fact that it is borne over a dislike of the person as opposed to his golf.

21-03-2019 3:57pm

Pogue eile wrote: »

In 2014 he won 4 tournaments out of 6, including 2 majors and a WGC.

It's not the criticism at all and of course every athlete is open to criticism and it is part and parcel for anyone working in the public eye, however the issue that I have is firstly the unbalanced and irrational nature of most of it and secondly and far more significantly the undoubted fact that it is borne over a dislike of the person as opposed to his golf.

He’s a guy I watch on TV, I don’t like him or dislike him. Certainly he has done some unlkeable things like dumping his fiancée by text, trying to screw his agent after he negotiated deals as per the terms of their agreement and the debacle about the Zika fly/olympics. But I don’t know him. If anything the apparent man love which is sometimes evident in a few posters looks stronger than any dislike in others. As another poster said, any criticism is met with a concerted lynching. For a discussion forum, it seems only one opinion is tolerated. But, it doesn’t bother me like it seems to bother others, Like most, I understand that my opinion isn’t always right, and not everyone will agree with me. If you think I don’t like him, so be it.

Where you guys think he is not deserving of criticism because he won loads 2012-14, I think deserves criticism for not winning much since, particularly the last two and a half years. Who would have thought in ‘14 that he would enter the last year of the decade looking to rediscover the form of those two years. Granted things look very promising indeed at the moment.

I think if you want only positive posts, the thread should be renamed to reflect that.

Pogue eile · 21-03-2019 4:10pm

Dav010 wrote: »

He’s a guy I watch on TV, I don’t like him or dislike him. Certainly he has done some unlkeable things like dumping his fiancée by text, trying to screw his agent after he negotiated deals as per the terms of their agreement and the debacle about the Zika fly/olympics.

If you are going to plain lie then there isn't really much point in discussing - that hate will kill you man

21-03-2019 4:16pm

Pogue eile wrote: »

If you are going to plain lie then there isn't really much point in discussing - that hate will kill you man

Is this the school yard?

Pogue eile · 21-03-2019 5:11pm

Dav010 wrote: »

Is this the school yard?

It would certainly appear so.

You have 43 posts in the Golf forum, 42 of those are negative posts regarding McIlroy, but you want us to believe that you don't dislike him, you're right only a school child would be fooled by your lies.

21-03-2019 5:18pm

Pogue eile wrote: »

It would certainly appear so.

You have 43 posts in the Golf forum, 42 of those are negative posts regarding McIlroy, but you want us to believe that you don't dislike him, you're right only a school child would be fooled by your lies.

Apparently so.

Dr. Bre · 21-03-2019 5:55pm

So will Rory play anywhere before masters ?

21-03-2019 6:01pm

Dr. Bre wrote: »

So will Rory play anywhere before masters ?

WGC matchplay 27-31 March according to his website.

valoren · 22-03-2019 9:52am

If he wins the Masters then he will spend the rest of his career running victory laps.

All the Majors, the Players, FedEx Cup being the highlights.
Irish Open, Amateur Silver medal, PGA Championship (the Euro tour 'Major'), couple of WGC wins, Ryder Cup stalwart.

The Masters is the final piece of the puzzle. I think he will win it at some stage too.
It's a game of peaks and troughs and to maintain the peak is so incredibly difficult but when on form he has capitalized.

Winning the Players would be a career for many given the prize money, increased status with sponsors and invitations but it's just another feather in McIlroy's cap. He strikes me as a 'been there, done that' kind of guy and if he squares the circle with tournament win's by winning at Augusta and feels that there is nothing to prove to himself then he would wind down his schedule and take a prolonged sabbatical.

GreeBo · 22-03-2019 10:02am

valoren wrote: »

he would wind down his schedule and take a prolonged sabbatical.

I doubt that is going to happen, if he starts winning majors again then he will be trying to add to them imo.

Now as for whether or not we will see him on the Champions tour...I'd have my doubts...but I'd say its some craic for the lads who made it big before getting there.

Mantis Toboggan · 22-03-2019 10:20am

He's probably done enough already for the Hall of Fame. Some achievement at 29.

ronjo · 25-03-2019 5:02pm

Didn't Rory say the reason that he isn't playing Lahinch is that he wants to play the week before a Major but not two??

If that's the case, anyone know why he is playing this week?

First Up · 25-03-2019 5:48pm

ronjo wrote:

Didn't Rory say the reason that he isn't playing Lahinch is that he wants to play the week before a Major but not two??

I think he meant he didn't want to play in each of the two weeks before a major.

Russman · 25-03-2019 6:38pm

ronjo wrote: »

Didn't Rory say the reason that he isn't playing Lahinch is that he wants to play the week before a Major but not two??

If that's the case, anyone know why he is playing this week?

I don’t think he’s playing next week, so with this week being a WGC, it makes sense to play.

Joe_ Public · 25-03-2019 7:55pm

First Up wrote: »

I think he meant he didn't want to play in each of the two weeks before a major.

Yes, this is just about it, but i think he definitely wants to play the week before a major if possible. Hence he will make debut in canadian open week before us open. If scottish and irish opens were other way round, we’d probably have been seeing him in clare.

slave1 · 27-03-2019 2:54pm

Joe_ Public wrote: »

Yes, this is just about it, but i think he definitely wants to play the week before a major if possible. Hence he will make debut in canadian open week before us open. If scottish and irish opens were other way round, we’d probably have been seeing him in clare.

I thought he wanted to play two weeks before a Major and have the week leading in off?
In any case he said not 3 weeks in a row and that was part of his Lahinch reasoning....

...but now he's playing the two weeks prior to the US Open which will be 3 weeks in a row so contrary to his Lahinch stance??

He's playing the Canadian as he did not play the minimum number of PGA events last year so according to their rules he must add an event this year that he has never played previously or lose his card.

So the Canadian is not out of 100% choice, it's a forced extra tournament that has the least impact on his 2019 schedule....

Joe_ Public · 27-03-2019 3:42pm

slave1 wrote: »

I thought he wanted to play two weeks before a Major and have the week leading in off?
In any case he said not 3 weeks in a row and that was part of his Lahinch reasoning....

...but now he's playing the two weeks prior to the US Open which will be 3 weeks in a row so contrary to his Lahinch stance??

He's playing the Canadian as he did not play the minimum number of PGA events last year so according to their rules he must add an event this year that he has never played previously or lose his card.

So the Canadian is not out of 100% choice, it's a forced extra tournament that has the least impact on his 2019 schedule....

Ah right, i didn’t hear that about his reason for playing in canada? I thought he’d have satisfied the tour card requirements already this year - didn’t he play in the farmers for first time? - but I’m no expert on the details so could be wrong.

Is he definitely playing week before canada, memorial i think? As i think all his major wins bar one came after he’d played the week before, i believed that’s how he wanted to plan the year, but can’t recall him specifically saying that himself.

slave1 · 27-03-2019 6:07pm

Yes, Memorial, Canada, US Open back to back.
You're right on the first time at the Farmers so not sure now on the Canada choice

neddynasty · 27-03-2019 7:00pm

Anyone listed to "The Rory & Carson Podcast"?

Debut episode was out on the 8th March. It's about 40 mins of Rory and Carson Daly (MTV fame) chatting about golf and random stuff. It's grand. I'm not sure it'll be in production very long. Although it seems to be aimed more at the American market so you never know.

Barnaboy · 27-03-2019 11:35pm

Great first day for Rors. He really is in amazing form right now. Augusta need to get his measurements!

Tilikum17 · 28-03-2019 6:32am

neddynasty wrote: »

Anyone listed to "The Rory & Carson Podcast"?

Debut episode was out on the 8th March. It's about 40 mins of Rory and Carson Daly (MTV fame) chatting about golf and random stuff. It's grand. I'm not sure it'll be in production very long. Although it seems to be aimed more at the American market so you never know.

Although I could watch Rory’s swing all day long (nicest swing of the lot) I couldn’t listen to him for more than 30 seconds.

I think he’s incredibly fake with a face I’d never get sick of slapping.

prawnsambo · 28-03-2019 9:40am

Tilikum17 wrote: »

Although I could watch Rory’s swing all day long (nicest swing of the lot) I couldn’t listen to him for more than 30 seconds.

I think he’s incredibly fake with a face I’d never get sick of slapping.

Good grief. :eek:

Mantis Toboggan · 28-03-2019 9:50am

prawnsambo wrote: »

Good grief. :eek:

Absolutely, he's probably the most honest golfer there is.

londonred · 28-03-2019 10:43am

Rory is doing a lot of social media work at he moment and seems to be very happy , he is beginning to act like the World number 1 again .

brick tamland · 28-03-2019 11:23am

Mantis Toboggan wrote: »

Absolutely, he's probably the most honest golfer there is.

I don’t think he quite as honest as he used to be

Seems to be taking the Tiger approach in press conferences this year and not giving much away with what he’s saying. Seems t be a new approach he’s trying this year

Rory McIlroy - 4 Time Major Winner

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