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Bloody Sunday soldier to be charged with murder

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Comments

  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,115 ✭✭✭rapul


    I agree with the above post, disgraceful making up excuses or justifying it somehow


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    this thread is nothing more than the picking at a scab, in the vain hope of getting it to heal over.
    there's people on here who will never agree on this topic.

    it is a complete waste of time. we all know what happened on that bloody day.

    sometimes in life you have to accept that **** happens, and move on.
    i'm not saying we should forget, but perpetuating hatred is ultimately self-defeating & self-destructive.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    sometimes in life you have to accept that **** happens, and move on. i'm not saying we should forget, but perpetuating hatred is ultimately self-defeating & self-destructive.


    Easy to say if none of your family were victims.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    Easy to say if none of your family were victims.

    i agree. they will carry this to their graves. their dignity has been admirable, but i dont know where they go from here.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,085 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    this thread is nothing more than the picking at a scab, in the vain hope of getting it to heal over.
    there's people on here who will never agree on this topic.

    it is a complete waste of time. we all know what happened on that bloody day.

    sometimes in life you have to accept that **** happens, and move on.
    i'm not saying we should forget, but perpetuating hatred is ultimately self-defeating & self-destructive.

    Listen to the guy on RTE radio right now, 'It doesn't go away, until it is dealt with'.

    I can understand why some want it to go away, those who wanted to ignore it, hoping it would go away have been around for years sadly.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    from my own experience, the details of which i do not wish to share, i have come to understand that justice and truth are often highly elusive.
    it's not nice, but you come to accept it.

    as for those wishing it away. can you really blame them? sadly life goes on. ask anyone who has ever suffered grief. the victims of Bloody Sunday have no monopoly on this crap.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,085 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    from my own experience, the details of which i do not wish to share, i have come to understand that justice and truth are often highly elusive.
    it's not nice, but you come to accept it.

    as for those wishing it away. can you really blame them? sadly life goes on. ask anyone who has ever suffered grief. the victims of Bloody Sunday have no monopoly on this crap.

    Nobody said they had a monopoly. Although this is a familiar unionist/loyalist complaint.

    The same Unionist/Loyalists who complain about one-sided justice and then point blank refuse to take part in a process of truth finding and campaign for an amnesty for serving security forces.
    As usual speaking with forked tongues, you couldn't actually make it up.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,288 ✭✭✭Wheres Me Jumper?


    i dont think we'll resolve this injustice here. if only.
    my heart genuinely goes out to those poor families that suffered this murder.
    as it does to all those in NI who suffered murder during those dark days.

    i'm out of here.


  • Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    janfebmar wrote: »
    I agree and respect your point of view. However Francis thinks

    Obviously his definition of a Republican is different to yours, and he also forgets about those caught but not imprisoned.

    And we're back to the whole "It was the Republicans" mantra.

    You have chosen to ignore the obvious. All Republicans are not the same. Neither are all Nationalists. Why, then, would you equate all of them as having "questionable morals"? I also note your lack of apology for that statement.

    Would you care to answer the two questions I asked.

    1: What is morally questionable about preferring a Republic to a Monarchy?

    2: Will you wear your poppy with pride in memory of those British soldiers who murdered innocent civilians?


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 27,565 ✭✭✭✭steddyeddy


    I'm going to have to say I'm loosing a lot of respect for Britain as a country since this Bloody Sunday debacle. The amount of people in England defending them is unreal.


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  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,085 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    i dont think we'll resolve this injustice here. if only.
    my heart genuinely goes out to those poor families that suffered this murder.
    as it does to all those in NI who suffered murder during those dark days.

    i'm out of here.

    Unfortunately, not everyone had or has the luxury of closing a browser window and it all goes away.


  • Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    janfebmar wrote: »
    It was in the interest of the government for it not to go up in flames ...having it go up in flames cost them a hell of a lot of money, not to mention thousands of people killed including their own politicians. They tried very hard for it not to go up in flames and according to reports even flew Adams and others to London for talks in the early seventies, but the Sinn Fein attitude was the armed struggle would continue until the British government left. Do not forget the Army came in to try to keep peace between the extremists on both sides.

    Cold blooded murder is not, and can never be, a peacekeeping "solution".

    Particularly when those who were murdered by the Paras were not extremists in any sense of the word. Those particular paratroopers who selected, pursued, and cold bloodedly murdered innocent civilians......hmmm.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    And we're back to the whole "It was the Republicans" mantra.

    You have chosen to ignore the obvious. All Republicans are not the same. Neither are all Nationalists. Why, then, would you equate all of them as having "questionable morals"? I also note your lack of apology for that statement.


    You are mixing me up with another poster. I never said "it was theRepublicans", I never said all Republicans are the same, I never equated or mentioned all Republicans as having "questionable morals"etc.


  • Site Banned Posts: 160 ✭✭dermo888


    steddyeddy wrote: »
    I'm going to have to say I'm loosing a lot of respect for Britain as a country since this Bloody Sunday debacle. The amount of people in England defending them is unreal.

    Britain got its respect back for me around 1997/1998, although I'm no fan of Tony Blair, that Labour administration was a breath of fresh air.

    It lost it with Brexit. I've never seen a population so clueless, so ignorant, and they are actually PROUD of this ignorance.

    I say this to the British of today on the forums, and on social media:

    Look lads, the world does'nt give a damn that your Grandad was in the Normandy Landings. Its 75 effing years ago mate, and the world has moved on and is looking to a brighter and better future. Thanks, but that sacrifice was your Grandad's sacrifice, NOT yours, and you have no right to be riding around on the coat tails of his achievements. He risked death, you did'nt.

    As for Northern Ireland, I'm not from it, I can't judge it beyond arcane theories. Its for the people of Northern Ireland to decide what happens to Northern Ireland, and its safer for a lot of us to stay the hell away from it, because of its volatile nature.

    Its no wonder that the most dreaded office when cabinet seats were being assigned in the British Cabinet was:

    "Secretary of State to Northern Ireland".

    (You can almost see the wailing, the weeping, the gnashing of teeth).

    Now - closure is needed. Soldier F is a distraction, a token 'throw under the bus' soldier, an expendable commodity. Having read through all the reports of Bloody Sunday, he HAS to go down. Whether thats sufficient is another matter entirely. Having observed the fractured chaotic nature of Northern Irish politics and discourse over the decades, I'm afraid it won't be. Indeed, the risk is that it could do much more harming than healing.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭mattser


    Cold blooded murder is not, and can never be, a peacekeeping "solution".

    Particularly when those who were murdered by the Paras were not extremists in any sense of the word. Those particular paratroopers who selected, pursued, and cold bloodedly murdered innocent civilians......hmmm.

    Agreed. Something the good people of Warrington know to their cost also.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    mattser wrote:
    Agreed. Something the good people of Warrington know to their cost also.

    As do the people of Ballymurphy. The Paras were state sponsored murderers.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,448 ✭✭✭mattser


    As do the people of Ballymurphy. The Paras were state sponsored murderers.

    Murder is murder.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,085 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    mattser wrote: »
    Agreed. Something the good people of Warrington know to their cost also.

    In what sense was Warrington 'peacekeeping'? In what sense were the perpetrators of Warrington the armed forces of a government responsible for the equal administration of law and order?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 12,653 ✭✭✭✭Plumbthedepths


    mattser wrote:
    Murder is murder.


    True but worse when the state engages in it as it did through the use of the paras on Bloody Sunday.


  • Posts: 1,690 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    dermo888 wrote: »
    The original concept was fine with Sir Edward Carson who was a relatively moderate Unionist. It was the mob that followed - the fascist Craig, and senile Beaverbrooke. They stood by and administered an incredibly nasty right wing fascist statelet.

    The cracks began in the aftermath of the second world war, and the various social revolutionary reforms that followed, from Health, to Education, to Housing and more besides.

    Terence O'Neill became Prime Minister and saw things could'nt carry on as they were. He tried to build bridges and reconcile. But the festering wounds of resentment, polarisation, and much more besides were too much. It exploded. It did'nt take much, but once it exploded, it was demon released which could'nt be slain so easily.

    Those demons are'nt dead. They are sleeping,

    I hope to God they stay asleep!

    Considering the appalling lack of ministerial knowledge (or, indeed, interest) in Northern Ireland displayed during the Brexit debate, together with their idealistic defence of soldiers, I fear there is a very real risk to the peace process.


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  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,043 ✭✭✭Berserker


    I fear there is a very real risk to the peace process.

    The only risk to the peace process; which is dead and buried in truth, is from republicans. The only people who are mentioned when it comes to a return to violence is them. If republicans want to try democracy, they can have it. There is no appetite for border, violence etc from the British.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,085 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Berserker wrote: »
    The only risk to the peace process; which is dead and buried in truth, is from republicans. The only people who are mentioned when it comes to a return to violence is them.

    Until you mention a border poll.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    In what sense was Warrington 'peacekeeping'?
    I do not think anyone said or suggested
    Warrington was "peacekeeping".


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 81,085 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    janfebmar wrote: »
    I do not think anyone said or suggested
    Warrington was "peacekeeping".

    The poster he/she was answering was talking about crimes committed during peacekeeping.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    Until you mention a border poll.
    The loyalists did not use or threaten violence during the last border poll in N. Ireland which was in 1973


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 9,043 ✭✭✭Berserker


    Until you mention a border poll.

    Might as well start talking about banshees. Republicans are by far the biggest threat. The security forces in the UK and the RoI will tell you that. Violence from Unionism doesn't even get mentioned.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 2,424 ✭✭✭janfebmar


    The poster he/she was answering was talking about crimes committed during peacekeeping.
    During the decades of peacekeeping , Warrington (seeing as someone else mentioned it) was a crime that was committed. Most of the over 300,000 whose responsibility was to go to keep the peace in N. Ireland did not kill or break the law.


  • Posts: 5,422 ✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Berserker wrote: »
    Might as well start talking about banshees. Republicans are by far the biggest threat. The security forces in the UK and the RoI will tell you that. Violence from Unionism doesn't even get mentioned.

    The myopia is strong with this one.


  • Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,210 ✭✭✭✭citytillidie


    The myopia is strong with this one.

    You would think Loyalist have done nothing in recent years




    *apart from kill others in different Loyalist groups

    ******



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  • Site Banned Posts: 160 ✭✭dermo888


    I hope to God they stay asleep!

    Considering the appalling lack of ministerial knowledge (or, indeed, interest) in Northern Ireland displayed during the Brexit debate, together with their idealistic defence of soldiers, I fear there is a very real risk to the peace process.

    Don't we all?

    The thing is, that Unionism still exists. Is it is militant as before? Is it potentially as violent?
    Nationalism - I get the distinct impression that the Nationalist segment have 'calmed' a lot over the past two decades and are'nt as 'bolshie' as before.

    The Republic of Ireland is a completely different type of social and economic identity to that of 1921 when partition commenced, to that of 1969 when the troubles commenced, and even that of the 1995 ceasefire, and that of the 1998 Good Friday Agreement.

    Bloody Sunday is a ticking bomb of pain that the British establishment did'nt know how to diffuse no matter how much we wanted them to find people accountable. I think a 'waiting game' took place.

    Both the Catholic and Protestant communities are much less marginalised than before, although the peace walls still stand, the reality is that partition has done grave harm to the province. It is unable to compete economically, it is heavily dependent on state sector employment, and nobody, North, South, British or Irish quite knows how to solve it.

    Its a Palestinian type puzzle, where if you aim to please everybody, you'll end up annoying everyone. Anywhere else, you could safely shrug your shoulders and say something slightly daft and insensitive like 'thats politics'. In Northern Ireland - its a different matter entirely - lives get lost with that type of nonsense.

    - Whats different now? Technology. The Provisional IRA was secretive and incredibly well organised, to a point it was almost inpenetrable. The UK security services are also 'razor sharp', far more so than their American counterparts, and possibly only Israel's MOSSAD can compete in terms of Pound per person capability.


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