Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

VinLieger · 13-03-2019 05:37PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

The one that was linked to in the same post as the one you refer to above had No deal at or around 35%. I wasn't going to quibble about the missing 5% because 35% is a mad number. And if you eliminate the don't knows, it pops up above the 40% mark.

This one

Again that is not explicitly saying they want a no deal brexit just they don't think MPs should vote against it being on the table.

I would suggest many people still believe it should not be taken off the table as part of a negotiating strategy instead of believing it should actually happen as this is something we are still hearing from brexiteer MP's.

Water John · 13-03-2019 05:39PM

It simplifies the Govn't motion by taking away the second paragraph.
'The House says that leaving without an agreement is off the table.'
Is the approx text.

prawnsambo · 13-03-2019 05:43PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Again that is not explicitly saying they want a no deal brexit just they don't think MPs should vote against it being on the table.

I would suggest many people still believe it should not be taken off the table as part of a negotiating strategy instead of believing it should actually happen as this is something we are still hearing from brexiteer MP's.

Well this is the question they were asked:

Following the defeat of the Government's Brexit deal in Parliament, MPs will now vote on whether the UK should leave the EU without a deal. Do you think MPs should vote for or against a No Deal Brexit?

I know you can look at that different ways, but it's pretty slanted towards no deal as an option rather than a bargaining position.

Professor Moriarty · 13-03-2019 05:44PM

34% of the British public support Britain leaving with no deal. 49% want an extension.

VinLieger · 13-03-2019 05:46PM

prawnsambo wrote: »

Well this is the question they were asked:

I know you can look at that different ways, but it's pretty slanted towards no deal as an option rather than a bargaining position.

Unless there's a polling question explicitly asking people to choose a no deal brexit over anything else then i don't think its correct to say 40% support no deal brexit.

lawred2 · 13-03-2019 05:55PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

34% of the British public support Britain leaving with no deal. 49% want an extension.

for what?

prawnsambo · 13-03-2019 05:56PM

VinLieger wrote: »

Unless there's a polling question explicitly asking people to choose a no deal brexit over anything else then i don't think its correct to say 40% support no deal brexit.

There's this one, which when you take out the don't knows adds up to 33% against remain 53% and TM's deal 13%. And the one above that the Prof linked at 34%. It's not 40%, but it's still a lot madder than I thought. Far too close to be talking confidently about referendums imo.

Professor Moriarty · 13-03-2019 05:58PM

lawred2 wrote: »

for what?

To Article 50 presumably. From the link:

"Britain leaves without a deal on March 29th" versus "Brexit is delayed until after March 29th"

rob316 · 13-03-2019 06:01PM

They'll have to revoke it, its that or no deal.

In a time where Donald Trump is the president of the USA, the UK are managing to look more incompetent. Incredible really

BlitzKrieg · 13-03-2019 06:06PM

Did Gove really say no deal brexit might lead to a return of direct rule in Northern Ireland???

Now we, in the circumstances that the house has voted for no deal, would have to start formal engagement with the Irish government about further arrangements for providing strengthened decision-making in the event of that outcome, and that would include the very real possibility of imposing a form of direct rule.

So I know stormont remains closed but brexit is really ticking all the boxes to encourage a return to the troubles

DrumSteve · 13-03-2019 06:06PM

There was always a part of me that thought I would enjoy this more as they ripped themselves apart, but it's just sad at this stage.

DrumSteve · 13-03-2019 06:07PM

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

Did Gove really say no deal brexit might lead to a return of direct rule in Northern Ireland???

So I know stormont remains closed but brexit is really ticking all the boxes to encourage a return to the troubles

Looks like he is trying to get the DUP on board, lord knows Sammy would love to have his masters back at the wheel.

Harry Palmr · 13-03-2019 06:08PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

34% of the British public support Britain leaving with no deal. 49% want an extension.

Not sure if anyone should believe any of the polling - the first question put to a member of the public should be "Do you understand what No Deal means and entails?" "Do you understand what an extension is and entails?" and so on. I suspect many have not got an iota.

Irish Praetorian · 13-03-2019 06:11PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Not sure if anyone should believe any of the polling - the first question put to a member of the public should be "Do you understand what No Deal means and entails?" "Do you understand what an extension is and entails?" and so on. I suspect many have not got an iota.

Ignorance hasn't stopped things getting this far.

Professor Moriarty · 13-03-2019 06:11PM

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

Did Gove really say no deal brexit might lead to a return of direct rule in Northern Ireland???

So I know stormont remains closed but brexit is really ticking all the boxes to encourage a return to the troubles

Unsurprising really. Gove detests the GFA.

Hurrache · 13-03-2019 06:13PM

BlitzKrieg wrote: »

Did Gove really say no deal brexit might lead to a return of direct rule in Northern Ireland???

So I know stormont remains closed but brexit is really ticking all the boxes to encourage a return to the troubles

Yip, he did indeed.

Like DrumSteve said, it's probably directed between the eyes of the DUP, although I'm not so sure they'd find that idea particularly upsetting.
https://twitter.com/BBCNewsNI/status/1105865241458552832

Professor Moriarty · 13-03-2019 06:13PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Not sure if anyone should believe any of the polling - the first question put to a member of the public should be "Do you understand what No Deal means and entails?" "Do you understand what an extension is and entails?" and so on. I suspect many have not got an iota.

Probably. But that data is about as good as you'll get.

Water John · 13-03-2019 06:15PM

Spellman tries to withdraw her motion but Bercow says that's up to other signatories and won't accept.

Larbre34 · 13-03-2019 06:15PM

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

My problem with the end of your post is that people have been treating Johnson as this slightly brash, un-PC but ultimately sound and dependable Uncle type figure and that sort of comment is the basis for his popularity while behind the scenes he's shown himself to be a cold, calculating & ruthless figure.

Certainly. I said it with much irony.

Hurrache · 13-03-2019 06:18PM

Water John wrote: »

Spellman tries to withdraw her motion

Do we know why?

Hurrache · 13-03-2019 06:18PM

Back to Gove and direct rule, under the GFA is that even possible (I think it is as direct rule was implemented a few times since the GFA was signed)? There'd be mayhem on the streets up there if it was attempted.

blackwhite · 13-03-2019 06:22PM

Harry Palmr wrote: »

Not sure if anyone should believe any of the polling - the first question put to a member of the public should be "Do you understand what No Deal means and entails?" "Do you understand what an extension is and entails?" and so on. I suspect many have not got an iota.

Fortunately or unfortunately, the right to vote does not come with the condition that you actually understand what you are voting on.

For much of the UK electorate (and likely in most other countries as well) - that apparently means that most take zero responsibility for informing themselves as to what they are voting on.

Hurrache · 13-03-2019 06:23PM

LOL, meow
https://twitter.com/Coburn4Brexit/status/1105879305916243970

A Dub in Glasgo · 13-03-2019 06:30PM

Ignore Coburn - the biggest racist in Scotland

Hurrache · 13-03-2019 06:33PM

I always ignore him, but it's all amusing to watch him stroke out on Ireland issues, he's doubling down too.

lawred2 · 13-03-2019 06:42PM

Professor Moriarty wrote: »

To Article 50 presumably. From the link:

"Britain leaves without a deal on March 29th" versus "Brexit is delayed until after March 29th"

I get that.

They want an extension to do what?

Calltocall · 13-03-2019 06:44PM

lawred2 wrote: »

I get that.

They want an extension to do what?

To have another vote on a deal that won’t pass

maebee · 13-03-2019 06:45PM

Unionist farmer from Fermanagh very disillusioned with his elected reps, saying that NI will be resigned to a wasteland.
"People need bread & butter on the table, they can't eat a flag." He admits that Dublin has been more concerned about NI than Westminster has. Worth a listen:

Lunchtime Live - from 12.08

https://www.newstalk.com/listen-back

Water John · 13-03-2019 06:46PM

Spellman had some rambling explanation relaying an email she got from a constituent, but really whip pressure IWT.
She was withdrawing her motion at the wrong time and cannot act for her co signatories. But it takes the heat out of it for the Govn't.

Enzokk · 13-03-2019 06:49PM

Larbre34 wrote: »

Meanwhile Boris has gone on talk radio and commented that money spent on historical child sex abuse inquiries is "£60m spaffed up the wall!"

For those not familiar with certain vulgar colloquialisms, spaffed means to ejaculate wildly. Needless to say carnage has erupted.

Oh BoJo, you are a legend.

Legend? No, he wasted more than £50m pounds on a non-existent bridge that is nothing more than a vanity project. He has some nerve to call an important investigation as wasting money when he had no problem "spaffing it up the wall" for his own projects.

An absurd vanity project for our age – Boris Johnson’s garden bridge

An itemised bill for its failure has just arrived: £53m in total, of which £2.76m (including VAT) went to the designer Thomas Heatherwick; £12.7m to the engineers Arup; £2.3m to lawyers; and £1.7m went on the salaries of the executives who didn’t in the end execute the project. It cost £1.3m to survey the riverbed and look for unexploded wartime bombs. The project’s adequate but unexceptional website cost £161,000.

The largest sum for this great patriotic endeavour – £21.4m – went to the suspiciously foreign-sounding joint venture of Bouygues Travaux Publics and Cimolai SpA, which won the tender to build the bridge in 2016. They had to be paid for their costs in gearing up for the works and then winding down. They were appointed despite substantial doubts about the viability of the project, at a time when neither the funds nor all the permissions needed were in place. One argument for doing so was that the bridge had to be built quickly, so as not to get in the way of the Thames Tideway tunnel, the giant sewer being constructed in the river.

Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

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