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Brexit discussion thread VII (Please read OP before posting)

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Comments

  • #8912
    cryptocurrency
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,650 ✭✭✭cryptocurrency


    Deleted User wrote: »
    You're cool with JRM manipulating this to make himself 7 million or thereabouts?

    I wish anyone who does 7 million legally the best of luck and so should you.


  • #8913
    BlitzKrieg
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,698 ✭✭✭✭BlitzKrieg


    cryptocurrency wrote: »
    If they were one of its rulers they would be anle to come right out and say the UK will insist on no tax harmonisation, no EU army and no federal Europe, and no euro, they would say it in front of barrier, tusk and juncker and make them respond to the British people for the record.

    They did

    Thats why the EU treaties are full of excemptions for the UK on all of those issues.

    Same with Ireland

    We have the single strongest block for an EU wide army. A triple lock system that legally requires a referendum in Ireland before an EU wide army can be formed.
    Also the likes of Tusk should be made to go on the likes of a question time panel to engage at local level as often as Vince cable. He is no more important.

    They would if the offer was there I'd imagine. EU officials have shown up on debates and shows like question time on continental Europe, they've held televised debates for the European commission presidency during the run up of the last EU election (and this one too I expect), but none of that reached UK media because the UK media chose to have Nigel Farage etc on instead.

    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4j5SOqtZGD0


  • #8914
    Irish Praetorian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭Irish Praetorian


    An Claidheamh wrote: »
    The last time Britain had a premier navy, they were fighting Napolean


    To be fair the RN was pretty first rate up until after WW2 - one of the reasons for its rapid decline was the fact that during WW2 it had become so large it was unsustainable.


  • #8915
    FrancieBrady
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 73,711 ✭✭✭✭FrancieBrady


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I am confused...

    Help!

    If the HOC says tomorrow, "No deal cannot happen", surely that means either revoking A50, or applying or an extension, presumably on the basis of a referendum/GE.
    They can no longer vote for the deal itself, so they won't be able to leave on March 29th if shelving the no deal vote wins?

    This No Deal vote is ridiculous.

    If they vote NO to Taking No Deal off the table...it is STILL No Deal.

    Crazy.


  • #8916
    jmayo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,224 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    seamus wrote: »
    If they do ask for an extension, the EU might request a legally binding guarantee that the UK will do whatever it is planning. We already know they can't be trusted to follow through on their commitments.

    So, for example, if May goes to the EU requesting an extension for a General Election, the EU might only approve on the condition that an Election is held before the end of April. If not, the extension is void and the UK crashes out.

    There is a couple of flies in that plan.

    Would it be possible to have General election in less than 6 weeks and even if they did how soon could a parliament sit to agree a new government and vote on withdrawal agreement.
    If they had hung parliament who negotiates with EU ?
    May as acting leader ?

    And on top of that the EU parliament elections are on 23rd to 26 May.

    I am not allowed discuss …



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  • #8917
    An Claidheamh
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,792 ✭✭✭An Claidheamh


    cryptocurrency wrote: »
    I never seen any of them threats.

    Then you really don't know what your talking about.

    How much is your pound worth now by the way, without the EU to help it?


  • #8918
    prawnsambo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,550 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I am confused...

    Help!

    If the HOC says tomorrow, "No deal cannot happen", surely that means either revoking A50, or applying or an extension, presumably on the basis of a referendum/GE.
    They can no longer vote for the deal itself, so they won't be able to leave on March 29th if shelving the no deal vote wins?
    No deal is the default if they do nothing else. The vote tomorrow is meaningless unless it's for a no deal. And that's highly unlikely. But it can't actually stop no deal and never could.


  • #8919
    Infini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,653 ✭✭✭Infini


    Deleted User wrote: »
    I am confused...

    Help!

    If the HOC says tomorrow, "No deal cannot happen", surely that means either revoking A50, or applying or an extension, presumably on the basis of a referendum/GE.
    They can no longer vote for the deal itself, so they won't be able to leave on March 29th if shelving the no deal vote wins?

    I would look at it this way.

    No Deal Gets rejected tomorrow,
    Extention proposal gets passed Thursday.

    This then goes 2 ways:

    EU agrees a limited extention IF Britain gives a reasonable plan on what it does. We're stuck in this twilight for god knows how long.

    OR

    EU bite's the bullet and calls time on their ignorance and basically say's NO extention due to lack of any meaningful plan on the British side.

    Should the EU decide the 2nd option and basically call Britain out by basically making them own up to their responsibilities and decide this would then go one of 2 ways.

    UK basically crashes out in a vainglorious blaze of ignorance and stupidy BY CHOICE resulting in an utter mess of their own making and all the consequences of that decision.

    OR

    Teresa May decides not to be the PM who sinks the country or goes down with the ship by basically offering parliament the decision to withdraw A50 pending a 2nd referendum due to simply running out of time, having no plans left and basically using the only OUT from all this they have left. It would have to a 2nd referendum at least because if they withdraw disingeneously they risk a legal challenge by the EU and could be kicked out on short notice automatically if they try this just to restart negotiations.


  • #8920
    Hurrache
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 10,385 ✭✭✭✭Hurrache


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    They said that about the original Brexit referendum, If the Border communities refuse to allow a physical border to be installed and the UK refuses to put one in the Irish sea, there's only one other place it can go.

    They're not comparable, and Ireland won't be put outside the union.


  • #8921
    PokeHerKing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    Deleted User wrote:
    They said that about the original Brexit referendum, If the Border communities refuse to allow a physical border to be installed and the UK refuses to put one in the Irish sea, there's only one other place it can go.

    How exactly would "communities" block a physical border ie custom checkpoints going up?


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  • #8922
    dresden8
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Spanish Eyes wrote: »
    James O'Brien on LBC tomorrow could be very interesting. He generally is anyway. He is not afraid to call the muppets out.

    James is worse than Joe Duffy.

    Morons are let on so he can tear them apart.

    His shtick is tired disbelief.


  • #8923
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    FrancieBrady wrote: »
    This No Deal vote is ridiculous.

    If they vote NO to Taking No Deal off the table...it is STILL No Deal.

    Crazy.
    Exactly, unless they vote to accept a "no Deal", there isn't a deal, but a "no deal" is a deal, to leave without a deal.


  • #8924
    Seth Brundle
    Moderators, Politics Moderators Posts: 43,052 Mod ✭✭✭✭Seth Brundle


    [Deleted User] wrote: »
    I am confused...

    Help!

    If the HOC says tomorrow, "No deal cannot happen", surely that means either revoking A50, or applying or an extension, presumably on the basis of a referendum/GE.
    They can no longer vote for the deal itself, so they won't be able to leave on March 29th if shelving the no deal vote wins?
    Butif they fail to agree on whether to leave or revoke Art 50 then the current path continues to head towards a no deal...

    https://ichef-bbci-co-uk.cdn.ampproject.org/i/s/ichef.bbci.co.uk/news/695/cpsprodpb/4CCB/production/_105995691_brexit_flowchart_what_now_11mar_long_v1_640-nc.png


  • #8925
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    cryptocurrency wrote: »
    I wish anyone who does 7 million legally the best of luck and so should you.

    Morals and ethics be damned!


    You sound like a person that knows the price of everything, and the value of nothing.


  • #8926
    gooch2k9
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,647 ✭✭✭gooch2k9


    Kermit.de.frog wrote: »
    Speculation Theresa May may be paid a visit tonight at Downing Street...

    https://twitter.com/christopherhope/status/1105553095025672195

    Not one of them would have the courage to take her place.


  • #8927
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    PokeHerKing wrote: »
    How exactly would "communities" block a physical border ie custom checkpoints going up?
    Recent history should give you some pretty good hints.


  • #8928
    Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo


    How long before they return to the glory times of the Three-Day Week? Or the excitement that was the Winter of Discontent? Fun times.


  • #8929
    Infini
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,653 ✭✭✭Infini


    Irish Praetorian wrote: »
    To be fair the RN was pretty first rate up until after WW2 - one of the reasons for its rapid decline was the fact that during WW2 it had become so large it was unsustainable.

    To be fair World War 2 was what ultimately broke the UK as a global power, they had to sell tech and stuff to the US and they were forced off the Gold Standard after the war by them as well. The US basically supplanted the UK as a global power after WW2 because ultimately while Britain wasn't invaded only attacked it ultimately bankrupted them and WW2 was ultimately a phyrric victory for Great Britain.


  • #8930
    dresden8
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,290 ✭✭✭dresden8


    Infini wrote: »
    To be fair World War 2 was what ultimately broke the UK as a global power, they had to sell tech and stuff to the US and they were forced off the Gold Standard after the war by them as well. The US basically supplanted the UK as a global power after WW2 because ultimately while Britain wasn't invaded only attacked it ultimately bankrupted them and WW2 was ultimately a phyrric victory for Great Britain.

    I read somewhere many years ago that on VJ day 800 British warships of all sizes were decommissioned. 100 years of empire and huge debt sold off for pennies on the pound.


  • #8931
    PokeHerKing
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 4,934 ✭✭✭PokeHerKing


    Deleted User wrote:
    Recent history should give you some pretty good hints.


    Apples and oranges.


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  • #8932
    Professor Moriarty
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 14,394 ✭✭✭✭Professor Moriarty


    jmayo wrote: »

    Well I often wonder why the remainers like Jo Johnson, stick it out and haven't jumped ship. Maybe it is once a tory always a tory ?

    Not when it comes down to jingoism versus reality though. Ultimately, and perhaps unbelievably, there are Tories who will put country before party. Soubry springs to mind.


  • #8933
    Irish Praetorian
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 1,745 ✭✭✭Irish Praetorian


    Infini wrote: »
    To be fair World War 2 was what ultimately broke the UK as a global power, they had to sell tech and stuff to the US and they were forced off the Gold Standard after the war by them as well. The US basically supplanted the UK as a global power after WW2 because ultimately while Britain wasn't invaded only attacked it ultimately bankrupted them and WW2 was ultimately a phyrric victory for Great Britain.


    I'd buy that, with the rider that I'm not sure how sustainable it was for any nation to keep 1/4 of the worlds territory and population under its jurisdiction indefinitely.

    EDIT: Anyways back to the Brexity grind


  • #8934
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo wrote: »
    How long before they return to the glory times of the Three-Day Week? Or the excitement that was the Winter of Discontent? Fun times.
    Very unlikely due to the fact that these were triggered by internal discontent and terrible labour relations resulting in mass strikes and seeding the rise of Thatcher. The current situation could result in a dose of inflation but an increase in local industry, similar to what happened in South Africa during the Apartheid trade embargoes.


    Regardless of anything else, it does act as a push back against glolabisation.


  • #8935
    Laois_Man
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,758 ✭✭✭Laois_Man


    prawnsambo wrote: »
    No deal is the default if they do nothing else. The vote tomorrow is meaningless unless it's for a no deal. And that's highly unlikely. But it can't actually stop no deal and never could.

    Tomorrow's deal is not meaningless...well, depending on the result.

    If they vote to allow no deal, that's it...end of the game
    Otherwise, there's still things in play


    The former would be a monumentally historic

    The latter is far more likely though


  • #8936
    Akrasia
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 23,261 ✭✭✭✭Akrasia


    joe40 wrote: »
    Or they just vote a third time and accepts May's.
    A lot of the no vote are people trying to stop/ delay brexit. So if there is no extension I think they would take Mays deal rather than crash out. Apart from Erg and DUP would anyone serioussly allow no deal to happen.

    The remainers always have the option of unilaterally withdrawing A50 at the last minute

    It depends on the margin in tomorrows vote. If it's an overwhelming defeat for the No Deal option, then, if on the 29th of March there still isn't any extension on the table, then someone will just table a motion to withdraw Article 50 and if this is the last chance saloon, there will likely be a majority support for it

    The margin for tomorrow will tell us how many nutters there are in the HOC who are prepared to scuttle the ship rather than remain in the EU (in any capacity)

    Chomsky(2017) on the Republican party

    "Has there ever been an organisation in human history that is dedicated, with such commitment, to the destruction of organised human life on Earth?"



  • #8937
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 0 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I imagine many EU PM's will be feling the same way.
    https://twitter.com/MinPres/status/1105562597347282945


  • #8938
    jmayo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,224 ✭✭✭✭jmayo


    Infini wrote: »
    To be fair World War 2 was what ultimately broke the UK as a global power, they had to sell tech and stuff to the US and they were forced off the Gold Standard after the war by them as well. The US basically supplanted the UK as a global power after WW2 because ultimately while Britain wasn't invaded only attacked it ultimately bankrupted them and WW2 was ultimately a phyrric victory for Great Britain.

    Lend-lease finished them.

    Oh and don't forget how the moronic Labour government (Nene blunder) gave Stalin jet technology in late 40s, on his promise he would not use it for military purposes.
    FFS what a bunch of muppets.

    I am not allowed discuss …



  • #8939
    Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,009 ✭✭✭Tangatagamadda Chaddabinga Bonga Bungo


    Infini wrote: »
    To be fair World War 2 was what ultimately broke the UK as a global power, they had to sell tech and stuff to the US and they were forced off the Gold Standard after the war by them as well. The US basically supplanted the UK as a global power after WW2 because ultimately while Britain wasn't invaded only attacked it ultimately bankrupted them and WW2 was ultimately a phyrric victory for Great Britain.

    Absolutely.

    Between 1945 and 1965, the number of people under British rule outside the UK itself fell from 700 million to five million, three million of whom were in Hong Kong.

    They really did lose all of their cash cows following WW2.


  • #8940
    kalych
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 353 ✭✭kalych


    cryptocurrency wrote: »
    While interesting I listen to laugh at him moan in his monologues. Hard brexit will be worth it just to annoy the extreme left like him alone for so many people.
    Mogg made mincemeat of him if you check the interview recently on YouTube..i was shouting ”finish him” with five mins to go.

    you posts have no relation to reality. blocked.


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  • #8941
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 31,118 ✭✭✭✭ [Deleted User]


    PokeHerKing wrote: »
    Apples and oranges.
    Maybe so as for the causes of the troubles, but the anger of border communities will be against any physical infrastructure and those who operate it.


This discussion has been closed.
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