Galway's traffic issues

McTigs · 27-02-2019 11:06am

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

That being said I’ve no problem with park and ride and it may suit some people so by all means set it up as it may get more cars off the road leaving it freer for me but park and ride should under no circumstances be accompanied by restrictions on cars driving into the city.

I think a carbon tax is the way to go here rather than restrictions, you still get to drive all over the place to your hearts content but you pay for the privilege. The financial hit my be restriction enough in many cases

cgcsb · 27-02-2019 12:27pm

McTigs wrote: »

I think a carbon tax is the way to go here rather than restrictions, you still get to drive all over the place to your hearts content but you pay for the privilege. The financial hit my be restriction enough in many cases

It's probably a better idea than depending on county councils to enforce the rules.

John_Rambo · 27-02-2019 1:22pm

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

I see we are getting back to the whole “we should force people to live where we want to live” narrative. There are large numbers of reasons people want or need to live in rural areas and those who want to be stuck living in cities or estates should just accept that not everyone wants to live where they do.

That’s gas, as you’re the first person to explode when people refuse social housing!! And nobodies forcing you to live anywhere! Nobody has ever ever ever told you where to live, you’re from a farming family and you’re the heir, so you’re going to need to live on the land you will work.

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

Park and ride is unsuitable for many people for various different reasons. I can park within touching distance of the office door no way on earth am I going to go through the hardship of park and ride. On top of that I often need to drive place at lunch like dropping or collecting things, going to the bank, I travel around to different parts of the city to eat lunch, I occasionally travel directly to places like the swimming pool after work.

Galway’s a small city, easily traversed by foot or bike, you don’t need a car to go to the shops, the pool or the bank unless you’ve got a disability. You’re actually a major part of the problem if you’re insisting on driving everywhere within the city as a single occupant car user. There’s mechanics, carpenters, engineers doctors, tradesmen etc… with heavy tools in their cars and vans that are snarled up in traffic by the likes of you popping to the bank and carrying out other unnecessary car journeys.

And there’s hardly any tools of great weight in your car.

Mrs OBumble · 27-02-2019 1:39pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

Galway’s a small city, easily traversed by foot or bike, you don’t need a car to go to the shops, the pool or the bank unless you’ve got a disability.

That's not actually true

The vast majority of workers are based in indistrial estates on the edge of the city where the planning approach says there aren't supposed to be any cafes, banks, post offices, leisure centres, convenience stores or group professional offices (doctors, dentists, physios) - things that workers need to go to. A few have crept in eg Papa Rich combined with a furniture shop in Briarhill, and some simply are operating without planning (not gonna name 'em obviously!)

So if workers want to do any messages at lunchtime a car is almost essential: GoCar even have a vehicle based at Merit Medical in Parkmore for just this sort of thing.

Johnny_BravoIII · 27-02-2019 1:48pm

It's not about what suits a person on an individual level. It's about how do we build functional communities which enhance peoples lives. We need to make our towns and cities better places to live. This means reduced air pollution, noise pollution, more greenways. Priority is given to the walking and cycling people who live within the town/city environment.

If cities are better places to live then more people will decide to live there.
This usually means penalising single-occupant vehicles in some fashion.
The investment needs to first be made in the public transport system. We then restrict cars entering the city centre and push people towards this new better public transport option.

IMO the city is operating at full capacity at peak traffic. This problem is and will seriously hinder the economic potential of the region. A key factor in FDA is the ease of access to the plant for employees and management.

We need to plan for a population in Galway of 100,150,250'000 people. There is no road-based plan which can cater to this type of growth.

what_traffic · 27-02-2019 2:05pm

Johnny_BravoIII wrote: »

We need to plan for a population in Galway of 100,150,250'000 people. There is no road-based plan which can cater to this type of growth.

Ya this is the key. Gov National plan is to have 120,000 people in Galway City by 2040. Can see it happening, population grew in Galway City from 2011 to 2016 by 5,000 during the worst years of the recent recession.

what_traffic · 27-02-2019 2:08pm

McTigs wrote: »

I think a carbon tax is the way to go here rather than restrictions, you still get to drive all over the place to your hearts content but you pay for the privilege. The financial hit my be restriction enough in many cases

Not sure this will work, Gov strategy here is to get people to switch to Electric Cars - not to actually ditch them. Some of the most generous SEAI subsidy's are for Electric Cars.

xckjoo · 27-02-2019 2:21pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

That's not actually true

The vast majority of workers are based in indistrial estates on the edge of the city where the planning approach says there aren't supposed to be any cafes, banks, post offices, leisure centres, convenience stores or group professional offices (doctors, dentists, physios) - things that workers need to go to. A few have crept in eg Papa Rich combined with a furniture shop in Briarhill, and some simply are operating without planning (not gonna name 'em obviously!)

So if workers want to do any messages at lunchtime a car is almost essential: GoCar even have a vehicle based at Merit Medical in Parkmore for just this sort of thing.

Ballybrit (Briarhill?) shopping complex is easily walkable from Parkmore on a lunch break. I've done it many times. It has nearly everything you mentioned. There's also quite a number of cafes, etc. within the estates that aren't always obvious from the outside.

I think most people are just very disorganised and we've lost the ability to plan ahead. Most people don't even know what they're going to eat from one day to the next.

Zzippy · 27-02-2019 11:59pm

John_Rambo wrote: »

And there’s hardly any tools of great weight in your car.

I see what you did there...

Mrs OBumble · 28-02-2019 12:06am

xckjoo wrote: »

Ballybrit (Briarhill?) shopping complex is easily walkable from Parkmore on a lunch break. I've done it many times. It has nearly everything you mentioned. There's also quite a number of cafes, etc. within the estates that aren't always obvious from the outside.

20 minutes there and 20 minutes back doesn't leave much time in a lunch break, especially if someone needs to degown and gown again. (Maybe you can do it quicker - I certainly can't.)

You know why those places aren't always obvious from the outside, don't you ... planning operates on a "don't get caught" basis a lot of times. Not good for building viable businesses though.

The more I think about it, the county council have really, really shat on the city's doorstep: we have workers from all over the place, but make it hard for them to do any incidental spending in the city, and then they take their wages home to Mayo etc too.

28-02-2019 12:32am

John_Rambo wrote: »

Galway’s a small city, easily traversed by foot or bike, you don’t need a car to go to the shops, the pool or the bank unless you’ve got a disability. You’re actually a major part of the problem if you’re insisting on driving everywhere within the city as a single occupant car user. There’s mechanics, carpenters, engineers doctors, tradesmen etc… with heavy tools in their cars and vans that are snarled up in traffic by the likes of you popping to the bank and carrying out other unnecessary car journeys.

I don't work right in the city centre, walking or cycling to places not in the immediate area would take far too long out of my lunch if I even wanted to walk or cycle them which I do not. There is also little traffic issues around during the day so there is no clogging up really at all.

Also your ideas are totally impractical, you live in A drive to work in B and on the way home drive to C then home to A. How do you expect the trip from B to C to be done by bike which one example would be work to a gym or particular shop?

John_Rambo wrote: »

And there’s hardly any tools of great weight in your car.

I often drive a commercial some of the time which has plenty of tools etc in it along with various things related to work, things needed for after work for stop offs etc, changes of clothes, outdoor clothes etc. I carry a lot of stuff around with me so I can decide on a whim to do things and would find not having my one of my vehicles with me day to day a massive pain and severe inconvenience.

xckjoo wrote: »

Ballybrit (Briarhill?) shopping complex is easily walkable from Parkmore on a lunch break. I've done it many times. It has nearly everything you mentioned. There's also quite a number of cafes, etc. within the estates that aren't always obvious from the outside.

I think most people are just very disorganised and we've lost the ability to plan ahead. Most people don't even know what they're going to eat from one day to the next.

I dont work in parkmore but have driven in and out and would not like to be trying to get from park more to briar hill and back on foot and except to have much time on either end to actually spend my lunch rather than a quick drive there and back.

Also just because there are cafes near by people like a change or they may not like whats on offer. I have few places to eat within short waking distance of the office, I eat once or twice per week in them but then other days could take a fancy for something on the other side of town hop in the car and go get it.

I purposely don’t plan what I’m going to eat as I don’t know what I’ll feel like/where is like to go come lunch time.

McGiver · 28-02-2019 1:04am

Sara Shapely Bead wrote:

I often drive a commercial 4x4 during the week which has plenty of tools etc in it along with various things related to work, things needed for after work for stop offs etc, changes of clothes, outdoor clothes etc. I carry a lot of stuff around with me so I can decide on a whim to do things and would find not having my one of my vehicles with me day to day a massive pain and severe inconvenience.

A bit American way of living to me - very car centric. You may lack a Continental Europe point of view, suppose you never lived in or stayed some time in Europe? I think a short stay and getting acquainted with the quality of live in European cities would help to broaden your horizon.

You seem to be coming up with series of reasons on why sustainable development wouldn't work despite the fact that vast majority of cities of similar size in the EU (bar maybe Portugal and Italy) made it work.

As other posters noted, Galway absolutely needs to start properly planning and controlling how exactly it develops right now, otherwise it will stagnate and this will harm its already rather poor competitiveness. It's already hard to compete for FDA and national budget resources with Cork, Dublin and even Limerick now, so if Galway wants to succeed it needs to get serious.

Johnny_BravoIII · 28-02-2019 9:46am

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

I don't work right in the city centre, walking or cycling to places not in the immediate area would take far too long out of my lunch if I even wanted to walk or cycle them which I do not. There is also little traffic issues around during the day so there is no clogging up really at all.

Also your ideas are totally impractical, you live in A drive to work in B and on the way home drive to C then home to A. How do you expect the trip from B to C to be done by bike which one example would be work to a gym or particular shop?

I often drive a commercial some of the time which has plenty of tools etc in it along with various things related to work, things needed for after work for stop offs etc, changes of clothes, outdoor clothes etc. I carry a lot of stuff around with me so I can decide on a whim to do things and would find not having my one of my vehicles with me day to day a massive pain and severe inconvenience.

I dont work in parkmore but have driven in and out and would not like to be trying to get from park more to briar hill and back on foot and except to have much time on either end to actually spend my lunch rather than a quick drive there and back.

Also just because there are cafes near by people like a change or they may not like whats on offer. I have few places to eat within short waking distance of the office, I eat once or twice per week in them but then other days could take a fancy for something on the other side of town hop in the car and go get it.

I purposely don’t plan what I’m going to eat as I don’t know what I’ll feel like/where is like to go come lunch time.

This is not an anti-car argument. I own a car. I do more miles than the average person. Long trips around the country. That said, I live in the city and use my bike all short journeys. Its cheaper, often quicker and keeps me fit.

Galway is not bike friendly. I understand why an unexperienced cyclist would not choose to cycle currently. The city is not engineered to encourage it.

The public transport is also crap. I understand why people would choose not to use it.

But we must figure out a way forward that makes galway a good place to live. The current situation reduces the attractiveness of the city significantly.

The choices we need to make re cars are obvious. For those who are reliant on their car you will be allowed access to the city but the priorty must be given to bikes and public transport. This would mean reducing the % of road used by cars and increasing cycle lanes and bus corridors on all access routes to the city. This simple fix would resolve bus times and encourage people to take the bus. As necessary after major investment in public transport infrastructure we could look at penalties on single occupant cars entering the inner city.

IMO this will happen eventually. There is no other solution. Its happening in Dublin. We should just accept some basic principles and get on with it instead of fighting to accomodate more cars for the next 15 years.

Galway is a small medieval inner city. Its not a place for 1000's of single occupant vehicles.

Pinch Flat · 28-02-2019 9:50am

pepple need to be seriously discouraged from using single occupant vehicles. Putting in high quality bus services that can use the roads effectively without being hampered by cars is the only way. Park and rides outside the city. Encourage walking and cycling. More frequent trains from Oranmore and surrounds. It’s the only way. Trying to facilitate motor traffic in Galway city center is a waste of time.

Anyone that says it’ll impact on business and tourism, look at Oxford in the Uk. They banned cars from the city over two decades and managing fine.

xckjoo · 28-02-2019 11:13am

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

20 minutes there and 20 minutes back doesn't leave much time in a lunch break, especially if someone needs to degown and gown again. (Maybe you can do it quicker - I certainly can't.)

You know why those places aren't always obvious from the outside, don't you ... planning operates on a "don't get caught" basis a lot of times. Not good for building viable businesses though.

The more I think about it, the county council have really, really shat on the city's doorstep: we have workers from all over the place, but make it hard for them to do any incidental spending in the city, and then they take their wages home to Mayo etc too.

I'm not sure what you're talking about here. Cafes are a standard inclusion in an industrial estate plan. They usually less obvious as they don't have to compete in the same way and the buildings often have more of a "functional" design.

Maybe you're right though. It's just not something I've experienced. I find the idea of black market sandwich making intriguing though

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

I don't work right in the city centre, walking or cycling to places not in the immediate area would take far too long out of my lunch if I even wanted to walk or cycle them which I do not. There is also little traffic issues around during the day so there is no clogging up really at all.

Also your ideas are totally impractical, you live in A drive to work in B and on the way home drive to C then home to A. How do you expect the trip from B to C to be done by bike which one example would be work to a gym or particular shop?

I often drive a commercial some of the time which has plenty of tools etc in it along with various things related to work, things needed for after work for stop offs etc, changes of clothes, outdoor clothes etc. I carry a lot of stuff around with me so I can decide on a whim to do things and would find not having my one of my vehicles with me day to day a massive pain and severe inconvenience.

I dont work in parkmore but have driven in and out and would not like to be trying to get from park more to briar hill and back on foot and except to have much time on either end to actually spend my lunch rather than a quick drive there and back.

Also just because there are cafes near by people like a change or they may not like whats on offer. I have few places to eat within short waking distance of the office, I eat once or twice per week in them but then other days could take a fancy for something on the other side of town hop in the car and go get it.

I purposely don’t plan what I’m going to eat as I don’t know what I’ll feel like/where is like to go come lunch time.

I think this just highlights my point about people having lost the ability to plan ahead. Now that so many things are available instantly, we think everything should be and are allowing our organisational skills to wither and die. I actually think that the lack of pre-planning lunches, etc is a major contributor to obesity and other diet related health issues; but that's for another thread :pac:

Pinch Flat wrote: »

Anyone that says it’ll impact on business and tourism, look at Oxford in the Uk. They banned cars from the city over two decades and managing fine.

Agreed. I've never heard of anyone delighted about high levels of traffic on a holiday, or how little time they had to spend out of the car.

Mrs OBumble · 28-02-2019 11:21am

Pinch Flat wrote: »

pepple need to be seriously discouraged from using single occupant vehicles. Putting in high quality bus services that can use the roads effectively without being hampered by cars is the only way. Park and rides outside the city. Encourage walking and cycling. More frequent trains from Oranmore and surrounds. It’s the only way. Trying to facilitate motor traffic in Galway city center is a waste of time.

Anyone that says it’ll impact on business and tourism, look at Oxford in the Uk. They banned cars from the city over two decades and managing fine.

I agree with your first para - with an exception for residents of course.

But call BS on the 2nd. I just dropped into some random Oxford city centre syreets on street view, and can find only a relatively small pedestrianised area: most streets have buses, bicycles and cars.

For the most part, Galway's car problems are not in its medieval city streets. Focussing on them is a red herring.

John_Rambo · 28-02-2019 1:04pm

Gwen Shallow Raccoon wrote: »

I don't work right in the city centre, walking or cycling to places not in the immediate area would take far too long out of my lunch if I even wanted to walk or cycle them which I do not. There is also little traffic issues around during the day so there is no clogging up really at all.

Also your ideas are totally impractical, you live in A drive to work in B and on the way home drive to C then home to A. How do you expect the trip from B to C to be done by bike which one example would be work to a gym or particular shop?

I often drive a commercial some of the time which has plenty of tools etc in it along with various things related to work, things needed for after work for stop offs etc, changes of clothes, outdoor clothes etc. I carry a lot of stuff around with me so I can decide on a whim to do things and would find not having my one of my vehicles with me day to day a massive pain and severe inconvenience.

I dont work in parkmore but have driven in and out and would not like to be trying to get from park more to briar hill and back on foot and except to have much time on either end to actually spend my lunch rather than a quick drive there and back.

Also just because there are cafes near by people like a change or they may not like whats on offer. I have few places to eat within short waking distance of the office, I eat once or twice per week in them but then other days could take a fancy for something on the other side of town hop in the car and go get it.

I purposely don’t plan what I’m going to eat as I don’t know what I’ll feel like/where is like to go come lunch time.

Fascinating insight and anecdotes there, thank you, but each sentence starts with "I" and addresses your personal concerns, dislikes, likes, lack of lunch planning, your clothing etc... As pointed out before, the traffic planning isn't about what suits a personal individual, but it's about how we develop functioning communities that enhance lives. We need to make our towns and cities better places to live and single car usage isn't the way forward.

Thankfully, this fact is being recognised all around Europe and the UK (we'll have to get used to that way of talking!) and cities are slowly pushing cars out. Galway city will do the same.

cgcsb · 28-02-2019 1:08pm

I see there's some progress on Salmon Weir. Painfully slow. There's nothing physically preventing the implementation of the Central bus corridor in the morning. Problem is the modal shift would evaporate the business case for the bypass.

beardybrewer · 28-02-2019 1:12pm

I agree with the sentiment that your standard lunch hour is rendered useless in Galway for running errands unless you're in Mervue or similarly central. When I moved to this city that took me a while to accept I couldn't get anything done during that time and stop getting angry about it. It's not about a lack of planning if you're in Dangan and the travel time for driving 3 miles to and from Loisban leaves almost nothing left of your lunch hour. I've long since stopped caring about local or Irish products and get everything from Amazon because I'm not going to waste my weekend running around town (in worse traffic) to get basic stuff done. I still go to town once a month but they're enjoyable, optional errands that aren't pressing. Anything important I'll just order from the UK rather than waste my time in traffic.

BTW I lived in Limerick going back 15 years and while there's plenty of traffic even back then they were miles ahead in their planning. There were more decentralised shops for one and the roads, while a long time coming, gave you more ways to get around. We'll get there eventually, but will people still go shopping in person 20 years from now?

xckjoo · 28-02-2019 1:27pm

beardybrewer wrote: »

I agree with the sentiment that your standard lunch hour is rendered useless in Galway for running errands unless you're in Mervue or similarly central. When I moved to this city that took me a while to accept I couldn't get anything done during that time and stop getting angry about it. It's not about a lack of planning if you're in Dangan and the travel time for driving 3 miles to and from Loisban leaves almost nothing left of your lunch hour. I've long since stopped caring about local or Irish products and get everything from Amazon because I'm not going to waste my weekend running around town (in worse traffic) to get basic stuff done. I still go to town once a month but they're enjoyable, optional errands that aren't pressing. Anything important I'll just order from the UK rather than waste my time in traffic.

BTW I lived in Limerick going back 15 years and while there's plenty of traffic even back then they were miles ahead in their planning. There were more decentralised shops for one and the roads, while a long time coming, gave you more ways to get around. We'll get there eventually, but will people still go shopping in person 20 years from now?

In person shopping is hugely underrated IMO. I'd count my butcher and greengrocer as friends at this stage and would even be on friendly terms with a chunk of the supermarket staff. It no longer feels like a chore to do the shopping. Myself and herself wander into town on a Saturday afternoon, grab some lunch, pick up the food and have fun doing it. Can't beat a bit of human interaction :pac:

nuac · 28-02-2019 2:07pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Fyi, they have little to no impact on the developments of infrastructure in the city apart from a rubber stamping role

Councillors have very little power over anything much

Councillors have extensive powers in drafting and passing new development plans

John_Rambo · 28-02-2019 2:14pm

xckjoo wrote: »

In person shopping is hugely underrated IMO. I'd count my butcher and greengrocer as friends at this stage and would even be on friendly terms with a chunk of the supermarket staff. It no longer feels like a chore to do the shopping. Myself and herself wander into town on a Saturday afternoon, grab some lunch, pick up the food and have fun doing it. Can't beat a bit of human interaction :pac:

Yeah, our village moving slowly back to bakery, butcher, greengrocer. My city offering excellent shopping value & options too.

28-02-2019 2:21pm

F**k me. The Galway City forum is stuck in a serious time loop
I swear this thread, and almost identical posts come up every few months.

Can we have one thread for people to talk about traffic, and have a blanket rule across the forum that traffic, and infrastructure cannot be discussed in any other threads.

xckjoo · 28-02-2019 2:26pm

Deleted User wrote: »

F**k me. The Galway City forum is stuck in a serious time loop
I swear this thread, and almost identical posts come up every few months.

Can we have one thread for people to talk about traffic, and have a blanket rule across the forum that traffic, and infrastructure cannot be discussed in any other threads.

Do we really need more moderating? Can people not just ignore posts they don't find interesting or want to respond to

28-02-2019 2:29pm

xckjoo wrote: »

Do we really need more moderating? Can people not just ignore posts they don't find interesting or want to respond to

5 threads on the 1st page all related to traffic discussions

28-02-2019 2:35pm

[Deleted User] wrote: »

5 threads on the 1st page all related to traffic discussions

Hmm, it must be a major issue then

xckjoo · 28-02-2019 2:38pm

Deleted User wrote: »

5 threads on the 1st page all related to traffic discussions

Probably the 5 threads with the most activity too. Maybe not all posts are for everyone.

beardybrewer · 28-02-2019 2:52pm

Deleted User wrote: »

Hmm, it must be a major issue then

Ah now, let's not upset anyone.

These lads have the right idea. It's been working for years, so why stop now?

John_Rambo · 28-02-2019 3:11pm

Deleted User wrote: »

F**k me. The Galway City forum is stuck in a serious time loop
I swear this thread, and almost identical posts come up every few months.

Can we have one thread for people to talk about traffic, and have a blanket rule across the forum that traffic, and infrastructure cannot be discussed in any other threads.

Can't discuss traffic without discussing the basic physical and organisational structures and facilities that are needed to sort out the traffic problem I'm afraid.

They're intrinsically linked.

Pinch Flat · 28-02-2019 3:54pm

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

But call BS on the 2nd. I just dropped into some random Oxford city centre syreets on street view, and can find only a relatively small pedestrianised area: most streets have buses, bicycles and cars.

Suggest you have a visit there. I Have. They've effectively banned cars from the city core and made parking virtually non-existent. A very efficient park and ride runs people i nand out. Other cities have grasped the nettle as well. Granada in Spain. Seville. Olso. It's painful for us in Ireland, but it'll come eventually.

Mrs OBumble wrote: »

For the most part, Galway's car problems are not in its medieval city streets. Focussing on them is a red herring.

Well, it is. Using a 20% full car to navigate medieval streets is simply not a best of roads and unsustainable. It's pretty evident any time I visit there anyway.

Galway's traffic issues

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