When did Gemma O Doherty go batshyt crazy?

gmisk · 28-02-2019 01:24PM

Auntie Semite wrote: »

In Ireland and the UK only property owning men (a minority) had the right to vote.

That was true but it was also a very long time ago in the Uk...I think all men were allowed to vote if over 21 in 1918, women didnt get the same right until 1928 I think.

Auntie Semite · 28-02-2019 01:25PM

ohnonotgmail wrote: »

I have bolded the appropriate part of your post.

You are conflating the vast majority of men with a small minority of men.
Kind of like the way people conflate all Muslims with the small minority of Muslim terrorists.

ohnonotgmail · 28-02-2019 01:26PM

Auntie Semite wrote: »

You are conflating the vast majority of men with a small minority of men.
Kind of like the way people conflate all Muslims with the small minority of Muslim terrorists.

It isn't like that at all.

gmisk · 28-02-2019 01:27PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

That is not discrimination, that is commonsense. If you are going to start a project and have a highly technical person drop out for a year, claim benefit and then have to find a similar highly technical person to fill in for them would you still employ the same person for the project from a business perspective?

Strawman argument: I cant get pregnant so I cant have an abortion.

No but I have had friends who were beaten attacked and stabbed by Africans, it didnt end well for the attackers though.

I have never gone to a religious school period. I would have rather that listed that as my white privilege instead I went to a waster school (vocational) because my parents couldnt afford the bus fare to the regional town.

Where is my white privilege?

Your experience with regards certain experiences does not totally nullify the fact that white privilege and gender bias exists.

batgoat · 28-02-2019 01:29PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

That is not discrimination, that is commonsense. If you are going to start a project and have a highly technical person drop out for a year, claim benefit and then have to find a similar highly technical person to fill in for them would you still employ the same person for the project from a business perspective?

Strawman argument: I cant get pregnant so I cant have an abortion.

No but I have had friends who were beaten attacked and stabbed by Africans, it didnt end well for the attackers though.

I have never gone to a religious school period. I would have rather that listed that as my white privilege instead I went to a waster school (vocational) because my parents couldnt afford the bus fare to the regional town.

Where is my white privilege?

Eh that's the very definition of discrimination if you refuse a woman a job because of their gender and the possibility they may get pregnant. Eg I have crohn's, if I had a crohn's flare and lost my job because of it, that would also be discrimination.(And I have had one's while in employment, took me about two months till I was back to full hours) You can claim common sense but it's still illegal.

skooterblue2 · 28-02-2019 01:40PM

aloneforever99 wrote: »

Here's another example. Years ago I had a friend called Shama who was looking for a job. She sent out loads of CVs but got no interviews.

One day, she changed her name on her CV to Sam, which made her sound

a) as though she might be male and
b) less foreign

Once she did that, she got loads of interviews, and got a job in no time because when they met her they saw no reason not to hire her. She had great experience and was a very likable person.

If you've never had to do something like that just to be considered for a job, that's a privilege. It's a worry you don't have to carry around with you.

I had a friend doing his masters in IT in UCC, he had to kiss ass for 4 years to do it. Then when he finally got it some guy with a degree in Maths from the University of Western Nigeria turns up on the Masters out of nowhere. They were picking electives and the Nigerian guy, get asked is He taking Statistics? He said no looked like too much work (*Alarmbells*).

Then he goes missing for 6 months and turn up in the end with his hand in a sling and cast and X-ray. The lecturers ask him about his project and give him an 8 week extension and then when he presents his "thesis", they laugh the whole way through the presentation. He didnt know anything about Maths or IT.

Recruiters like to hire from companies or institutions they know. Anyone will tell you CV from some college instantly get discriminated against or people wont hire people who were working on certain projects. Would hire a builder/Architect who was working on Priory Hall? Would you someone off a course that was having problems with accreditation?

So your friend got discriminated because of their name? Yeah that happens. CV's get sorted that way. They get sorted in other ways too by college, by age, by experience. Amazon (I think) had a computer algorithm for sorting CV's based on education experience and adaptability...... you know what they came up with? Single white straight guy with no criminal record as their preferred choice of programmer.

skooterblue2 · 28-02-2019 01:46PM

batgoat wrote: »

Eh that's the very definition of discrimination if you refuse a woman a job because of their gender and the possibility they may get pregnant. Eg I have crohn's, if I had a crohn's flare and lost my job because of it, that would also be discrimination.(And I have had one's while in employment, took me about two months till I was back to full hours) You can claim common sense but it's still illegal.

If they fire you because you have Crohns then that is illegal. If they do not hire you on the single issue that you have Crohns then that is illegal. If they do not hire you because they feel you cannot carry out the assigned tasks to you then that is not illegal. I do not know what work you do so, I cannot judge whether you are capable of carrying out your duties. I as a (hypothetical) responsible HR officer would not hire someone who didnt have capability to carry out those duties.

aloneforever99 · 28-02-2019 01:46PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Yeah that happens. CV's get sorted that way. They get sorted in other ways too by college, by age, by experience. Amazon (I think) had a computer algorithm for sorting CV's based on education experience and adaptability...... you know what they came up with? Single white straight guy with no criminal record as their preferred choice of programmer.

You claim you don't understand privilege but you just explained it really clearly.

skooterblue2 · 28-02-2019 01:49PM

gmisk wrote: »

Your experience with regards certain experiences does not totally nullify the fact that white privilege and gender bias exists.

How many Africans do you see homeless in Ireland? There are 13,000 Irish homeless in Ireland I am surer they would love to hear about white privilege.

skooterblue2 · 28-02-2019 01:51PM

aloneforever99 wrote: »

You claim you don't understand privilege but you just explained it really clearly.

No that was the best candidate, not privilege. The computer program did not take into account age gender, or nationality. It was based on education experience and proven ability

aloneforever99 · 28-02-2019 01:53PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

No that was the best candidate, not privilege. The computer program did not take into account age gender, or nationality. It was based on education experience and proven ability

Bet you a fiver you can't find me a link that shows this.

gmisk · 28-02-2019 01:55PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

How many Africans do you see homeless in Ireland? There are 13,000 Irish homeless in Ireland I am surer they would love to hear about white privilege.

If by "Africans" you mean black people then there are quite a few I would think.
A lot of the "irish" homeless and by homeless I mean living on the streets etc have addiction issues. I am not sure that the colour of someones skin is relevant if they are homeless, you clearly do....

skooterblue2 · 28-02-2019 01:59PM

aloneforever99 wrote: »

Bet you a fiver you can't find me a link that shows this.

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-amazon-com-jobs-automation-insight/amazon-scraps-secret-airecruiting-tool-that-showed-bias-against-women-idUSKCN1MK08G

You owe me coffee next time you are in Dublin. Lets make it a Mocha and can I get a Brownie as well in the Bad Ass Cafe?

Grayson · 28-02-2019 02:03PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

So your friend got discriminated because of their name? Yeah that happens. CV's get sorted that way. They get sorted in other ways too by college, by age, by experience. Amazon (I think) had a computer algorithm for sorting CV's based on education experience and adaptability...... you know what they came up with? Single white straight guy with no criminal record as their preferred choice of programmer.

Then their algorithm is biased. If I went through the hiring for a bank for the last 50 years and looked at who their best hires were it would show it was white men. that's because most of their hires were white men.
I'd also find that their worst hires were white men.

The best way to sort candidates for interview is to remove age, gender, name and nationality and look at their recent experience and qualifications.
That's not just my opinion, that's based on research by the CIPD.
Studies have found that if you show people the same CV with a male name instead of a female name they will think better of the candidate. So the best way to find the best candidate is to focus on the experience etc and ignore the rest.

aloneforever99 · 28-02-2019 02:03PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-amazon-com-jobs-automation-insight/amazon-scraps-secret-airecruiting-tool-that-showed-bias-against-women-idUSKCN1MK08G

You owe me coffee next time you are in Dublin. Lets make it a Mocha and can I get a Brownie as well in the Bad Ass Cafe?

You kind of won the battle and lost the war there, though, don't you think.

I owe you a fiver, but that article is pretty much the definition of male privilege:

In effect, Amazon’s system taught itself that male candidates were preferable. It penalized resumes that included the word “women’s,” as in “women’s chess club captain.” And it downgraded graduates of two all-women’s colleges, according to people familiar with the matter. They did not specify the names of the schools.

The entire point of the article is that the system was flawed and they had to ditch it, which entirely nullifies your point.

gmisk · 28-02-2019 02:04PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-amazon-com-jobs-automation-insight/amazon-scraps-secret-airecruiting-tool-that-showed-bias-against-women-idUSKCN1MK08G

You owe me coffee next time you are in Dublin. Lets make it a Mocha and can I get a Brownie as well in the Bad Ass Cafe?

Did you actually read the whole article?
The programme was clearly flawed....
Also who the hell goes to the Bad Ass Cafe for a brownie?!

In effect, Amazon’s system taught itself that male candidates were preferable. It penalized resumes that included the word “women’s,” as in “women’s chess club captain.” And it downgraded graduates of two all-women’s colleges, according to people familiar with the matter.

Problems with the data that underpinned the models’ judgments meant that unqualified candidates were often recommended for all manner of jobs, the people said. With the technology returning results almost at random, Amazon shut down the project, they said.

skooterblue2 · 28-02-2019 02:05PM

gmisk wrote: »

If by "Africans" you mean black people then there are quite a few I would think.
A lot of the "irish" homeless and by homeless I mean living on the streets etc have addiction issues. I am not sure that the colour of someones skin is relevant if they are homeless, you clearly do....

Nope I used to work for Simon about 15 years ago. I believed naively homeless people has no homes. I quickly found out they were the overflow of the mental health system. Now we have people who were of no interest to Social Welfare 10 years ago are now in the homeless bracket including families who were unheard of before. This is a new phenomenon in Ireland which is differ to Travellers who chose a nomadic life style. These are Irish people who have been priced out of the rental market and have had houses repossessed.

Grayson · 28-02-2019 02:06PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

https://www.reuters.com/article/us-amazon-com-jobs-automation-insight/amazon-scraps-secret-airecruiting-tool-that-showed-bias-against-women-idUSKCN1MK08G

You owe me coffee next time you are in Dublin. Lets make it a Mocha and can I get a Brownie as well in the Bad Ass Cafe?

That article shows why the program didn't work. It shows the flaws in how machines learn.

gmisk · 28-02-2019 02:08PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Nope I used to work for Simon about 15 years ago. I believed naively homeless people has no homes. I quickly found out they were the overflow of the mental health system. Now we have people who were of no interest to Social Welfare 10 years ago are now in the homeless bracket including families who were unheard of before. This is a new phenomenon in Ireland which is differ to Travellers who chose a nomadic life style. These are Irish people who have been priced out of the rental market and have had houses repossessed.

That might be all well and good.....but how is this related to "Africans"?

skooterblue2 · 28-02-2019 02:11PM

gmisk wrote: »

Did you actually read the whole article?
The programme was clearly flawed....
Also who the hell goes to the Bad Ass Cafe for a brownie?!

In effect, Amazon’s system taught itself that male candidates were preferable. It penalized resumes that included the word “women’s,” as in “women’s chess club captain.” And it downgraded graduates of two all-women’s colleges, according to people familiar with the matter.

Problems with the data that underpinned the models’ judgments meant that unqualified candidates were often recommended for all manner of jobs, the people said. With the technology returning results almost at random, Amazon shut down the project, they said.

Go to college, see what happens. Most of the first year guys in programming/networking. End of first year there will be more guy that drop out but a higher percentage of girls will fall out. Same with engineer and most hard science subject with the possible exception of Biology.

Are you blaming the programs choice? How many ladies do you see programing over 40? I have to meet one. They are all managers or change profession into the softer end of the market (training,HR sales etc.). The same way you see Nursing, mostly women and very few men or they are bullied out of the work place.

aloneforever99 · 28-02-2019 02:13PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Go to college, see what happens. Most of the first year guys in programming/networking. End of first year there will be more guy that drop out but a higher percentage of girls will fall out. Same with engineer and most hard science subject with the possible exception of Biology.

Are you blaming the programs choice? How many ladies do you see programing over 40? I have to meet one. They are all managers or change profession into the softer end of the market (training,HR sales etc.). The same way you see Nursing, mostly women and very few men or they are bullied out of the work place.

But you understand that your whole point about algorithms preferring single white guys was based on a completely flawed premise, right?

Yes, there are more guys in programming and more women in nursing; that's a completely different point.

skooterblue2 · 28-02-2019 02:13PM

gmisk wrote: »

That might be all well and good.....but how is this related to "Africans"?

Well they arrive here and instantly granted accomodation in a holiday camp. then they get preferential choice on the housing list. Hence you dont see any Africans homeless.

aloneforever99 · 28-02-2019 02:14PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Well they arrive here and instantly granted accomodation in a holiday camp. then they get preferential choice on the housing list. Hence you dont see any Africans homeless.

Ah listen, there's plenty of other threads for random racism. Although I suppose it's as relevant to a Gemma O'D thread as any.

skooterblue2 · 28-02-2019 02:14PM

aloneforever99 wrote: »

But you understand that your whole point about algorithms preferring single white guys was based on a completely flawed premise, right?

Yes, there are more guys in programming and more women in nursing; that's a completely different point.

No, they applied for the course, they did the course, they got the experience and they ended up in the industry.

skooterblue2 · 28-02-2019 02:16PM

aloneforever99 wrote: »

Ah listen, there's plenty of other threads for random racism. Although I suppose it's as relevant to a Gemma O'D thread as any.

I love the word "Racism", If you dont agree with me you are a racist.

gmisk · 28-02-2019 02:18PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Go to college, see what happens. Most of the first year guys in programming/networking. End of first year there will be more guy that drop out but a higher percentage of girls will fall out. Same with engineer and most hard science subject with the possible exception of Biology.

Are you blaming the programs choice? How many ladies do you see programing over 40? I have to meet one. They are all managers or change profession into the softer end of the market (training,HR sales etc.). The same way you see Nursing, mostly women and very few men or they are bullied out of the work place.

I am 37....I have been to college.....I have a BSC Hons in computer science and I have done a masters in management of information system.
I also did my thesis on machine learning and AI.

On my Computer science course there were a lot more guys than girls, but a higher percentage of the guys on that course dropped out compared to girls. Just because there are more men over 40 who work as programmers it doesnt mean the quality of the women who work in that field is any less in my experience it has been the opposite.

I am not blaming the programmes choices.....its a programme....I am blaming the programmer if it was for example randomly selecting unqualified candidates for random jobs...it was clearly flawed.

aloneforever99 · 28-02-2019 02:18PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

I love the word "Racism", If you dont agree with me you are a racist.

No, if you say racist things you are racist.

Like if you prefer trad music and I prefer rock, I wouldn't call you a racist. But if you make sweeping generalisations about Africans, I would.

aloneforever99 · 28-02-2019 02:19PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

No, they applied for the course, they did the course, they got the experience and they ended up in the industry.

I can't debate you on this because it appears you don't understand the point you were trying to make, so I'm not sure what chance I have.

gmisk · 28-02-2019 02:22PM

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Well they arrive here and instantly granted accomodation in a holiday camp. then they get preferential choice on the housing list. Hence you dont see any Africans homeless.

A "holiday camp"....you and I both know DP is not a holiday camp even if it is in an old holiday camp. Up until recently for a start none of them were allowed to even work. If you think refugees come here and are magically given a house you are talking complete BS.

baby and crumble · 28-02-2019 02:27PM

PhoneMain wrote: »

I call bullsh1t on this.
1) I'm a doctor and I've never heard any doctor or health care professional refer to a PATIENT as a client
2) As doctor's, we treat all blood as the same....i.e. we take the same precautions and there's no different treatment algorithm if you get a needle stick from a gay man, a person from africa, a 5 year old Irish boy or a 90 year old woman. All blood is high risk and treated equally.

Oh I do understand you have to treat blood carefully, I'm not an idiot. The point I was making is it sounded very very much like the person I was replying to was making assumptions about this trans person SIMPLY because they are trans. Now, I know since they've clarify that's not the case and they have information that confirms that they do from the person themselves, so that's all fair. My point is if you make assumptions and treat people differently simply because they're trans, that's discriminatory behavior.

Hotblack Desiato wrote: »

When I heard the word "client" the first thing that came into my mind was sex worker - not that there's anything wrong with sex work imho.

I've worked in health & social care for 20 odd years. I've heard people use the words patient, client, service user etc at different times. Fair enough if you haven't.

skooterblue2 wrote: »

Do you deal with needles and other bodily fluids or are just one of those soft are social workers/therapists?

First of all, you can quit the condescension towards social workers etc. You sound like an arsehole.

I'm a trained social worker yes, however I've also worked and volunteered for 20 years as a social care worker in disability, hospitals, psychiatric units and more. I've worked in environments where I had to give injections, ensure no fluid transfer, with people diagnosed with blood borne diseases like Hep B, HIV etc who also had no idea of how to manage the conditions/ illnesses themselves. So don't make out like you're the only one who does the hard work, ok?

When did Gemma O Doherty go batshyt crazy?

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