Advertisement
If you have a new account but are having problems posting or verifying your account, please email us on hello@boards.ie for help. Thanks :)
Hello all! Please ensure that you are posting a new thread or question in the appropriate forum. The Feedback forum is overwhelmed with questions that are having to be moved elsewhere. If you need help to verify your account contact hello@boards.ie
Hi all! We have been experiencing an issue on site where threads have been missing the latest postings. The platform host Vanilla are working on this issue. A workaround that has been used by some is to navigate back from 1 to 10+ pages to re-sync the thread and this will then show the latest posts. Thanks, Mike.
Hi there,
There is an issue with role permissions that is being worked on at the moment.
If you are having trouble with access or permissions on regional forums please post here to get access: https://www.boards.ie/discussion/2058365403/you-do-not-have-permission-for-that#latest

Traffic light sequencing in the city

  • 22-02-2019 10:50pm
    #1
    bobbyss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,263 ✭✭✭


    Coming down Moneenageshia Road to turn left onto Wellpark Road you are stopped at the red. Traffic comes from Wellpark Road either going left, straight or right. Why is the light red when this is happening if you are waiting to turn left off M Rd to Wellpark Road?

    Similarly, if you want to turn left onto the Q Bridge after exiting Woodies you get in the short left lane and you are stopped at a red there. Cars coming from the bridge going east get the green to go left, straight or right. Meanwhile you are waiting in the left lane and would not be interfering if you could get a green.

    I think the same things happen at the top of BnT going east. You want to turn left to Tuam Rd but again are stopped while cars from the Tuam Road are going left, straight or right.

    These may be small things but they just add to he driving experience in the city. I wonder if there outstanding road safety issues at play here.


«1

Comments

  • #2
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,083 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    When do ya reckon the pedestrians should get to cross?


  • #3
    bobbyss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,263 ✭✭✭bobbyss


    Mrs OBumble wrote:
    When do ya reckon the pedestrians should get to cross?


    The sequencing happens when there isn't a pedestrian in sight. They get to cross when they do appear and press the relevant button. ( And just as an aside, what a sad situation to see no place for pedestrians to cross at R/As behind hospital and at Sandy Road. Slowing down and allowing people to cross, at the former especially, is very dangerous.)


  • #4
    flazio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 13,249 ✭✭✭✭flazio


    Pedestrians are supposed to make their way to the crossroads before the bridge and cross there or further up the Seamus Quirke Road where this another pedestrian crossing.


  • #5
    Ashleigh1986
    Registered Users Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Ashleigh1986


    bobbyss .... I've been going on about this issue on galway boards for ages .
    No filter lights to turn left safely ???
    Pedestrian lights should only be activated when there's a pedestrian there that's activated them .
    This city is a village trying to operate as a city daily .
    Until the ring road is built a PROPER CCTV OPERATED AT RUSH HOURS TRAFFIC LIGHT SYSTEM ACROSS THE WHOLE CITY IS A MUST !!!!!


  • #6
    bobbyss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,263 ✭✭✭bobbyss


    Ashleigh1986 wrote:
    bobbyss .... I've been going on about this issue on galway boards for ages . No filter lights to turn left safely ??? Pedestrian lights should only be activated when there's a pedestrian there that's activated them . This city is a village trying to operate as a city daily . Until the ring road is built a PROPER CCTV OPERATED AT RUSH HOURS TRAFFIC LIGHT SYSTEM ACROSS THE WHOLE CITY IS A MUST !!!!!


    I can't for the life of me understand why there is no left filter at the above but particularly at M'geisha where you come off Sandy Rd r/a to be met with a packed , rather short M' geisha road. Most if not all the cars in the left lane there are wanting to turn left onto Wellpark Rd. Yet there we are like idiots waiting when it's perfectly safe to go left. Is there not somebody in some office somewhere seing this?
    I don't normally take this route in the evening but of late I have had to and I have been experiencing this stupidity st first hand.


  • Advertisement
  • #7
    zell12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,996 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    Another City just Crazy thread!


  • #8
    joeKel73
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭joeKel73


    bobbyss wrote: »
    Coming down Moneenageshia Road to turn left onto Wellpark Road you are stopped at the red. Traffic comes from Wellpark Road either going left, straight or right. Why is the light red when this is happening if you are waiting to turn left off M Rd to Wellpark Road?

    Because the left lane is for left AND straight ahead - bus lane and a short stretch for merging into the right lane.
    bobbyss wrote: »
    Similarly, if you want to turn left onto the Q Bridge after exiting Woodies you get in the short left lane and you are stopped at a red there. Cars coming from the bridge going east get the green to go left, straight or right. Meanwhile you are waiting in the left lane and would not be interfering if you could get a green.

    This left turn does get an early green if there are no pedestrians. Often the pedestrians will have been waiting a long time and found a gap in the traffic to cross before their sequence comes around again so they're long gone.

    bobbyss wrote: »
    I think the same things happen at the top of BnT going east. You want to turn left to Tuam Rd but again are stopped while cars from the Tuam Road are going left, straight or right.

    I think you mean going north to Tuam? Again this lane is for both left and straight... not just left.


  • #9
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    There should be a constant flashing amber going left over the QCB coming out from town, I’m stuck there regularly with a red light when I could easily get going. To do it properly they should have put a slip road onto the bridge though rather than the sharp left they have, it was terribly designed. Plenty other places too around the city a flashing amber could be used.


  • #10
    zell12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,996 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    Jayde Petite Nitty-gritty wrote: »
    There should be a constant flashing amber going left over the QCB coming out from town, I’m stuck there regularly with a red light when I could easily get going. To do it properly they should have put a slip road onto the bridge though rather than the sharp left they have, it was terribly designed. Plenty other places too around the city a flashing amber could be used.
    constant flashing amber for pedestrians to cross aka zebra crossing.
    They are stuck there constantly when they could easily get going.


  • #11
    bobbyss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,263 ✭✭✭bobbyss


    J o e wrote:
    Because the left lane is for left AND straight ahead - bus lane and a short stretch for merging into the right lane.


    Yes that's right. But it should only be for left I think. Most cars turn left there. Otherwise if you go straight you are heading into a bus lane and HAVE TO change lane any way.


  • Advertisement
  • #12
    joeKel73
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭joeKel73


    bobbyss wrote: »
    Yes that's right. But it should only be for left I think. Most cars turn left there. Otherwise if you go straight you are heading into a bus lane and HAVE TO change lane any way.

    Unless you're a bus/taxi/bike...


  • #13
    beardybrewer
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,926 ✭✭✭beardybrewer


    J o e wrote: »
    Because the left lane is for left AND straight ahead - bus lane and a short stretch for merging into the right lane.

    This. If I'm going into Wellpark I go straight in the left lane and just keep left until I turn into the retail park.


  • #14
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    zell12 wrote: »
    constant flashing amber for pedestrians to cross aka zebra crossing.
    They are stuck there constantly when they could easily get going.

    No a flashing amber arrow for cars turning left. I think it would work much better than now. If it was done right with a slip road then pedestrians could still have a green man to cross the main part of the road and then arrive at the slip and the amber would give them the right to cross. It would be much shorter also to cross this short slip so most would scoot across causing little interference for traffic.

    I drive through this junction everyday and I see very few pedestrians cross this section anyway.
    bobbyss wrote: »
    Yes that's right. But it should only be for left I think. Most cars turn left there. Otherwise if you go straight you are heading into a bus lane and HAVE TO change lane any way.

    Cars are entitled to go straight ahead there, the first stretch of the road the far side of the lights is a merging lane. I always use the left lane for going straight on as you get through the junction faster.


  • #15
    bobbyss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,263 ✭✭✭bobbyss


    Trent Dazzling Bagpipe wrote:
    Cars are entitled to go straight ahead there, the first stretch of the road the far side of the lights is a merging lane. I always use the left lane for going straight on as you get through the junction faster.


    I understand this. I think we need a left only filter because most cars turn left there.


  • #16
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,083 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    bobbyss wrote: »
    ( And just as an aside, what a sad situation to see no place for pedestrians to cross at R/As behind hospital and at Sandy Road. Slowing down and allowing people to cross, at the former especially, is very dangerous.)

    I totally agree.

    But as a pedestrian who sometimes has to cross those places, please, o please DON'T slow down. Just keep moving, and I will use the gap that sooner or later always appears naturally.

    If you slow down, there's a chance you'll get rear-ended. I might step out into the road and get hit by your car being shunted forward. Or if when there are two lanes, I might get caught by something in the outside lane - including something which swerves into that lane to avoid you. Or if there are no centre islands, I might have difficulty with traffic coming from the opposite direction.


  • #17
    zell12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,996 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    bobbyss wrote: »
    I understand this. I think we need a left only filter because most cars turn left there.
    Really?


  • #18
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    bobbyss wrote: »
    I understand this. I think we need a left only filter because most cars turn left there.

    I woundn’t say most cars turn left by any means, many go straight too. Making this left only will just cause far bigger tailbacks and frustration for those trying to go straight ahead in one lane. It’s far more efficient to have two lanes into the junction and then merging to one after the junction than try to get all traffic through on one lane.

    A much better move would be to start the bus lane after the well park entrance meaning any cars turning left into well park just stay in this lane (it’s what many people do anyway) and also give a longer time for cars to merge making it a little more free flowing. The way it’s done is stupid, a bit of a bus lane and then back to a turning a lane and then back to a bus lane.


  • #19
    bobbyss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,263 ✭✭✭bobbyss


    Trent Dazzling Bagpipe wrote:
    I woundn’t say most cars turn left by any means, many go straight too. Making this left only will just cause far bigger tailbacks and frustration for those trying to go straight ahead in one lane. It’s far more efficient to have two lanes into the junction and then merging to one after the junction than try to get all traffic through on one lane.


    Well perhaps you are right about the amount of cars turning left I don't know. It just feels wrong to a see the traffic coming from W Road while I could easily filter left. If we made M Road left lane a left turning only then that may help.
    On the other hand you would wonder what impact it would have on the city if you had left lane for bus only on QB (going east), S Mulvoy, Mon Road? If you took a bus you are guaranteed easy passage. I don't know the answers. But it is a wholly frustrating experience.


  • #20
    Ashleigh1986
    Registered Users Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Ashleigh1986


    Worse lights in galway city are the lights at courthouse .
    Driving down eglinton street to today heading towards cathedral .
    Bus in front of me . I was 2nd behind bus .
    Lights turn green . Time for bus to go tru but turned red before I could .
    Pedestrians lights come on , no pedestrians to cross .
    A joke of a city !!!!


  • #21
    phelant
    Registered Users Posts: 91 ✭✭phelant


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    When do ya reckon the pedestrians should get to cross?

    When most of them cross naturally, either on a red man or not at the lights at all.


  • Advertisement
  • #22
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    When do ya reckon the pedestrians should get to cross?

    Using the BEG button.

    M' geisha junction is good example of a poorly sequenced traffic light junction for pedestrians as well.
    Essentially a Round Robin Sequenced light for vehicular traffic.

    When the scenario outlined by OP occurs - the GREEN Walking Person does not appear on that arm of the junction unless someone actually hits the beg button - when it should regardless as the vehicular traffic is at a red anyhow.


  • #23
    bobbyss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,263 ✭✭✭bobbyss


    Another issue there is the right turn into Francis St with courthouse on your left. The green arrow lasts for seconds. Perhaps two or three cars can make it. When I am the head of that line waiting for the green light I don't know how many times I have been hooted at for not moving forward when the green light appears for straight ahead. There is no box to move forward into. But if you DID move forward to wait to turn right and you were hit! Who is to blame? Tragedy!


  • #24
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    I’d be in agreement with the beepers I have to say. I always move forward on junctions when turning right as you often can get across before the green arrow and it also helps more people get through the junction.


  • #25
    ?Cee?view
    Registered Users Posts: 2,848 ✭✭✭?Cee?view


    Jayde Petite Nitty-gritty wrote: »
    I’d be in agreement with the beepers I have to say. I always move forward on junctions when turning right as you often can get across before the green arrow and it also helps more people get through the junction.

    Are you not breaking the light?


  • #26
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    ?Cee?view wrote: »
    Are you not breaking the light?

    Depends on the way the lights are configured at the junction. Never policed here anyhow in Galway City.


  • #27
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    ?Cee?view wrote: »
    Are you not breaking the light?

    At the majority of junctions you are allowed to turn right if it's clear, the filter light is just giving a chance to turn if it's too busy to get across. There is only one set of lights and a filter light so you can't be breaking a light as there is none red.

    Bigger junctions like say Tuam road interchange has separate red lights for right turns so this is different.


  • #28
    bobbyss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,263 ✭✭✭bobbyss


    Trent Dazzling Bagpipe wrote:
    I’d be in agreement with the beepers I have to say. I always move forward on junctions when turning right as you often can get across before the green arrow and it also helps more people get through the junction.

    But what if an oncoming car hit you when you were moving forward? Who is responsible? Surely you, because you did not have a filter flashing?


  • #29
    xckjoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,397 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    bobbyss wrote: »
    But what if an oncoming car hit you when you were moving forward? Who is responsible? Surely you, because you did not have a filter flashing?


    If you're crossing a lane when there's oncoming traffic then it would be hard to not be at fault


  • #30
    Ashleigh1986
    Registered Users Posts: 672 ✭✭✭Ashleigh1986


    This sums up galway city .
    Going out of the galmont hotel and you come to the traffic lights at Lough atalia .
    You want to turn left heading towards the huntsman .
    Filter light comes on at traffic lights near you but no filter light on the set of lights that are facing you .
    Of course most people are watching the lights across from you that don't have a filter light .
    Happens all the time .
    Only a small thing but when they can't get the small things right ... There's no chance they can get the big things right .
    They really are clueless in galway !!!


  • Advertisement
  • #31
    45mhrc7evo1d3n
    Closed Accounts Posts: 427 ✭✭45mhrc7evo1d3n


    bobbyss wrote: »
    Another issue there is the right turn into Francis St with courthouse on your left. The green arrow lasts for seconds. Perhaps two or three cars can make it. When I am the head of that line waiting for the green light I don't know how many times I have been hooted at for not moving forward when the green light appears for straight ahead. There is no box to move forward into. But if you DID move forward to wait to turn right and you were hit! Who is to blame? Tragedy!

    The Rules of the Road are very clear on this as per extract below:

    If you wish to turn right at a set of traffic lights that has an arrow to the right, drive into the junction when you see a green light, taking care not to block any oncoming traffic. Then, when it is safe, finish your turn. You should only wait for the filter arrow for turning right when you are in the junction and if it would be dangerous to finish your turn before the filter light appears.


  • #32
    bobbyss
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,263 ✭✭✭bobbyss


    Tatum Rapid Bedding wrote:
    If you wish to turn right at a set of traffic lights that has an arrow to the right, drive into the junction when you see a green light, taking care not to block any oncoming traffic. Then, when it is safe, finish your turn. You should only wait for the filter arrow for turning right when you are in the junction and if it would be dangerous to finish your turn before the filter light appears.

    What is meant by ' drive into the junction? Do they mean drive straight on and wait for a safe gap?


  • #33
    the-island-man
    Registered Users Posts: 497 ✭✭the-island-man


    Ashleigh1986 wrote: »
    This sums up galway city .
    Going out of the galmont hotel and you come to the traffic lights at Lough atalia .
    You want to turn left heading towards the huntsman .
    Filter light comes on at traffic lights near you but no filter light on the set of lights that are facing you .
    Of course most people are watching the lights across from you that don't have a filter light .
    Happens all the time .
    This happened me during the week!


  • #34
    [Deleted User]
    Posts: 24,714 ✭ [Deleted User]


    bobbyss wrote: »
    What is meant by ' drive into the junction? Do they mean drive straight on and wait for a safe gap?

    Yeah that’s what they mean.


  • #35
    45mhrc7evo1d3n
    Closed Accounts Posts: 427 ✭✭45mhrc7evo1d3n


    bobbyss wrote: »
    What is meant by ' drive into the junction? Do they mean drive straight on and wait for a safe gap?

    That’s it exactly.


  • #36
    xckjoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,397 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    bobbyss wrote: »
    What is meant by ' drive into the junction? Do they mean drive straight on and wait for a safe gap?


    Except at Ravens Terrace (Fire Station) and the junction at the hospital as they need to be kept clear for Emergency Services access. That'll probably only catch you if you're doing your driving test though. Think most people have forgotten.


  • Advertisement
  • #37
    Mrs OBumble
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 26,083 ✭✭✭✭Mrs OBumble


    xckjoo wrote: »
    Except at Ravens Terrace (Fire Station) and the junction at the hospital as they need to be kept clear for Emergency Services access. That'll probably only catch you if you're doing your driving test though. Think most people have forgotten.

    Or any other junction where there's a yellow box.


  • #38
    joeKel73
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭joeKel73


    Mrs OBumble wrote: »
    Or any other junction where there's a yellow box.

    No you can wait in a yellow box if waiting for a gap to turn right.

    Rules of the Road...
    "An exception is when you want to turn right. In this case, you may enter the yellow box junction while waiting for a gap in traffic coming from the opposite direction. However, don’t enter the box if to do so would block other traffic that has the right of way."


  • #39
    joeKel73
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭joeKel73


    xckjoo wrote: »
    Except at Ravens Terrace (Fire Station) and the junction at the hospital as they need to be kept clear for Emergency Services access. That'll probably only catch you if you're doing your driving test though. Think most people have forgotten.

    Is this in the Rules of the Road? Sounds more like common decency than a rule or law. The route for emergency services access isn't marked with signage so might not very clear for non-locals.


  • #40
    xckjoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,397 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    J o e wrote: »
    Is this in the Rules of the Road? Sounds more like common decency than a rule or law. The route for emergency services access isn't marked with signage so might not very clear for non-locals.

    I was taught it when learning to drive all those years ago. In my head it was in the ROTR but could be misremembering. Thought it was in the "instant fail" category of mistakes


  • #41
    45mhrc7evo1d3n
    Closed Accounts Posts: 427 ✭✭45mhrc7evo1d3n


    J o e wrote: »
    Is this in the Rules of the Road? Sounds more like common decency than a rule or law. The route for emergency services access isn't marked with signage so might not very clear for non-locals.

    I agree, this is not in the Rules of the Road, nor is there any signage to that effect at the junctions mentioned. To be fair, if an emergency vehicle is approaching with sirens blaring, drivers will give way anyway.


  • Advertisement
  • #42
    xckjoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,397 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    Tatum Rapid Bedding wrote: »
    I agree, this is not in the Rules of the Road, nor is there any signage to that effect at the junctions mentioned. To be fair, if an emergency vehicle is approaching with sirens blaring, drivers will give way anyway.


    Well the idea would be to not block the junction in case you are unable to move when they're trying to get through. If the whole junction is blocked up you might not be able to get out of the way.


    Not to start a whole other thing, but the RotR isn't a legal document. It's the RSAs interpretation of the laws. Be careful taking it as gospel on all things road related. In saying that, I've no idea if the junction thing is in law and I highly doubt you'd be charged for it anyway, unless something really terrible happens.


  • #43
    Storm 10
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,970 ✭✭✭Storm 10


    Traffic lights at the Town Hall are a complete joke, you get very little time to get out on a Green, this morning turning right for Eglinton Street the Green arrow came on and only two cars went right before they went Red again, its definitely the traffic lights that are playing a major part in the traffic delays.


  • #44
    joeKel73
    Closed Accounts Posts: 3,689 ✭✭✭joeKel73


    xckjoo wrote: »
    It's the RSAs interpretation of the laws.

    Yeah it's not even that, it's more of a guide of how to play nice together on the roads. For roundabouts, for example, I think all that's written in law is that you turn left onto one (go clockwise)!


  • #45
    dilallio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,728 ✭✭✭dilallio


    Storm 10 wrote: »
    Traffic lights at the Town Hall are a complete joke, you get very little time to get out on a Green, this morning turning right for Eglinton Street the Green arrow came on and only two cars went right before they went Red again, its definitely the traffic lights that are playing a major part in the traffic delays.

    The city council tried to do away with the pedestrian lights there about 10 years ago but pressure from woodquay residents forced them to change their mind.


  • #46
    zell12
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 25,996 ✭✭✭✭zell12


    dilallio wrote: »
    The city council tried to do away with the pedestrian lights there about 10 years ago but pressure from woodquay residents forced them to change their mind.
    Link to source?


  • #47
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    dilallio wrote: »
    The city council tried to do away with the pedestrian lights there about 10 years ago but pressure from woodquay residents forced them to change their mind.

    Not biggest fan of Galway City Council - but I doubt very much they would have even contemplated this? Court House, Town Hall Theater, two National Schools all with 30 meters of this junction.
    Are you mixing up with the Standalone Pedestrian lights at Woodquay Car Park?


  • #48
    dilallio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,728 ✭✭✭dilallio


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Not biggest fan of Galway City Council - but I doubt very much they would have even contemplated this? Court House, Town Hall Theater, two National Schools all with 30 meters of this junction.
    Are you mixing up with the Standalone Pedestrian lights at Woodquay Car Park?

    No. It was one of the council engineers who told me this back then. He said that Bus Eireann were saying that this junction was the biggest bottleneck during peak traffic. They were considering this as there was a nearby 'alternative' - the pedestrian lights at Woodquay car park.


  • #49
    what_traffic
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 5,002 ✭✭✭what_traffic


    dilallio wrote: »
    No. It was one of the council engineers who told me this back then. He said that Bus Eireann were saying that this junction was the biggest bottleneck during peak traffic. They were considering this as there was a nearby 'alternative' - the pedestrian lights at Woodquay car park.

    Thanks - ok my opinion of them is rock bottom now. :D
    When was then?
    I think they have learned a bit since then.
    At least the latest proposal now is to remove the car traffic here rather than the lights.


  • #50
    dilallio
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 2,728 ✭✭✭dilallio


    what_traffic wrote: »
    Thanks - ok my opinion of them is rock bottom now. :D
    When was then?
    I think they have learned a bit since then.
    At least the latest proposal now is to remove the car traffic here rather than the lights.

    It was around 10 years ago - could be 1 to 3 years longer. My father-in-law (since deceased) was working for the council in one of the road-crews and I used to run into the engineer who managed his crew quite a bit, who told me this. I don't know though, how serious or advanced these plans were or at what stage they were abandoned.


  • #51
    xckjoo
    Registered Users, Registered Users 2 Posts: 3,397 ✭✭✭xckjoo


    Love the logic. Surely it's the small number of people that quickly cross the road that cause the issue, and not all the cars that permanently block up the junction. You don't even need the green man at busy times. It's so choked up you can just wander between the cars whenever suits.


  • Advertisement
Advertisement