Munster Team Talk Thread VI - Stander Up and Fight

Cookiemunster · 18-02-2019 11:44PM

Psycho Killer - "Hands Away" (Prop-Prop-Prrrroppp-Prop, Prop-Prop-Prop-Prrrrrrop-Prop)

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Munster shouldnt be allowed keep Mathewson. With McCarthy coming they'll have 2 senior and 2 academy scrum halves and Duncan could yet still get a contract. Mathewson is a very good player but we'd be far better off during a season with so many games impacted by international games to be giving McCarthy, academy SHs gametime with less prssure than normal

I doubt Duncan will get a contract. He's not featured since November and it was noticeable that he was the only SH not mentioned by JVG in that sporting Limerick clip. Even Hart was name checked.

Burkie1203 · 19-02-2019 07:26AM

Eod100 wrote: »

If Matthewson stays on for extra season and mentors McCarthy

Surely that's something Murray can do?

phog · 19-02-2019 08:44AM

Surely McCarthy is coming as a back-up to our reserve scrumhalf - if that is the case then it is entirely possible that Alby will get an extension as Hart is confirmed as gone and we have yet to see a contract extension for Duncan.

I'd imagine if the IRFU allow Munster sign Alby then Duncan is released - that's the trade off.

phog · 19-02-2019 08:46AM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

Munster shouldnt be allowed keep Mathewson. With McCarthy coming they'll have 2 senior and 2 academy scrum halves and Duncan could yet still get a contract. Mathewson is a very good player but we'd be far better off during a season with so many games impacted by international games to be giving McCarthy, academy SHs gametime with less prssure than normal

Our next two Pro14 games are in the international window and they're pressure games - both away in Wales where we have to win to stay ahead of Glasgow.

aloooof · 19-02-2019 08:47AM

Psycho Killer - "Hands Away" (Prop-Prop-Prrrroppp-Prop, Prop-Prop-Prop-Prrrrrrop-Prop)

phog wrote: »

Our next two Pro14 games are in the international window and they're pressure games - both away in Wales where we have to win to stay ahead of Glasgow.

I think he means next season with the RWC.

phog · 19-02-2019 09:01AM

aloooof wrote: »

I think he means next season with the RWC.

I know that but I gave two as an example of two during the international window where there is a bit of pressure to stay ahead of Glasgow..

He can't see into the future so can't say how much pressure we'll be under for any game next season.

Former Former · 19-02-2019 09:08AM

John Hayes Ligind

thomond2006 wrote: »

The point in keeping Mathewson would be that he's an excellent player.

Other than that, we are revisiting old ground on here.

Hey, when did revisiting old ground stop us before?

McCarthy was surely signed to be second-choice. He might as well be third-choice at Leinster as at Munster, so keeping Mathewson would render that move totally pointless. And the last thing Munster needed was more squad filler given their current options at SH.

Agreed, Mathewson is really good, I wasn't expecting much given that his CV screams JOURNEYMAN but he's been excellent. He's had his time though.

aloooof · 19-02-2019 09:16AM

Psycho Killer - "Hands Away" (Prop-Prop-Prrrroppp-Prop, Prop-Prop-Prop-Prrrrrrop-Prop)

phog wrote: »

I know that but I gave two as an example of two during the international window where there is a bit of pressure to stay ahead of Glasgow..

He can't see into the future so can't say how much pressure we'll be under for any game next season.

Gotcha. I guess the difference is, the RWC is very early in the season, and the majority of the focus will be on that so they have an opportunity to get some minutes on the clock and some form.

Eod100 · 19-02-2019 09:18AM

Burkie1203 wrote: »

Surely that's something Murray can do?

Not fully is he's off with Irleand for RWC and 6N, gets rested for a lot of Pro14 matches.

razorblunt · 19-02-2019 09:37AM

Are Mathewson's family still in the south of France or back in NZ?
Seen a few posts where he says he misses them, can't be easy on him or them.

phog · 19-02-2019 09:57AM

A 3rd choice scrumhalf at Munster will see more game time during the international window than a 3rd choice scrumhalf will in any other province - Murray will seldom if ever be released back to the province during the international window.

Jump_In_Jack · 19-02-2019 10:01AM

I can see the argument for keeping Mathewson on to see out the season, that’s fair I think, but for everyone involved I think Mathewson would be better off looking elsewhere for next season.
He should be looking for the best two-year deal he could get at the best club that would take him.
I’m sure there are decent opportunities for him on the table but perhaps his agent is holding out for a deal with Munster.
This season we effectively have Murray, Mathewson and Cronin.
(Hart and Williams appear to be out of the picture, much like Keatley was.)
That trio should see us out to the end of the season, if we make it to semi-finals and finals then that line-up would give you confidence.
If the difference between winning silverware or not is down to having a replacement ready for Murray should he get injured then I’d get a deal done now.

Next season we should be looking to get Cronin and McCarthy in direct competition with each other, rotating starts every second or third match, and keeping Murray purely for the bigger fixtures and perhaps one or two warm-up matches if required before those bigger fixtures.
The two academy scrum-halfs should ideally get some game time against the likes of Zebre, Kings and Dragons, and provide bench cover if required.

The only scenario I can think of for keeping him next season would be if Murray picked up a long-term injury and Mathewson were still available.
I think Mathewson will sign something for next season long before the end of this season and I don’t think it will be with Munster.

Mickiemcfist · 19-02-2019 10:08AM

razorblunt wrote: »

Are Mathewson's family still in the south of France or back in NZ?
Seen a few posts where he says he misses them, can't be easy on him or them.

Not sure where they're living, but he's said that he wants a contract of over a year somewhere so he can move them over rather than the current temporary contract.

Pepp1989 · 19-02-2019 10:11AM

Alby has made a massive impact. Should be doing all they can to try and keep him. Going by JVG comments, he is having a great influence on the squad also.

Would love to see him kept for another year. Hopefully bringing on McCarthy and Cronin. Murray won't play much next season.

Shefwedfan · 19-02-2019 10:18AM

Munster need to reduce their squad, not continue to hold on to multiple players for a single position....

Mathewson was signed because Murray had an injury. Murray returned and I have no idea why Mathewson was allowed to stay. He should have been let go.....

Munster have signed another player at 9 to cover Murray and will have Cronin as back up. Loads of cover.

Mr Tickle · 19-02-2019 10:21AM

Return of the JJ

Pepp1989 wrote: »

Alby has made a massive impact. Should be doing all they can to try and keep him. Going by JVG comments, he is having a great influence on the squad also.

Would love to see him kept for another year. Hopefully bringing on McCarthy and Cronin. Murray won't play much next season.

I really like the guy. He's so different to Murray and really changes the way we play when he comes on.

Mr Tickle · 19-02-2019 10:23AM

Return of the JJ

Shefwedfan wrote: »

Munster need to reduce their squad, not continue to hold on to multiple players for a single position....

Mathewson was signed because Murray had an injury. Murray returned and I have no idea why Mathewson was allowed to stay. He should have been let go.....

Munster have signed another player at 9 to cover Murray and will have Cronin as back up. Loads of cover.

Well Cronin is a good club player but i don't see him pushing for international caps. So really is there any reason we can't keep Murray, Alby and McCarthy?

Former Former · 19-02-2019 10:30AM

John Hayes Ligind

Pepp1989 wrote: »

Alby has made a massive impact. Should be doing all they can to try and keep him. Going by JVG comments, he is having a great influence on the squad also.

Would love to see him kept for another year. Hopefully bringing on McCarthy and Cronin. Murray won't play much next season.

This is not a valid reason to keep him. It's the opposite.

McCarthy is 24, he needs game time, game time and more game time. Sitting on the bench or in the stands is the last thing he needs.

The only reason to keep Mathewson is that he's a good player who increases the chances of winning games, which is fine, obviously, but his presence will absolutely be detrimental to the other SHs.

thomond2006 · 19-02-2019 10:32AM

A new born king to see POM POM POM POM POM

Regardless of next season, if possible it's a no brainer to extend Mathewson until the end of the season. That may be the extent of what JvG was referring to.

Zzippy · 19-02-2019 10:37AM

A new born king to see POM POM POM POM POM

Munster got a medical joker for a specific purpose. He's worked out, fine, and proved a very capable player. But that specific purpose is over. If he's kept on to the end of the season that should be it, and Munster should be thankful to have him that long. But if he's there next season, impeding the development of McCarthy, it will make a mockery of the medical joker reason, and of the whole player development rationale for players moving provinces.

Mr Tickle · 19-02-2019 10:50AM

Return of the JJ

Zzippy wrote: »

Munster got a medical joker for a specific purpose. He's worked out, fine, and proved a very capable player. But that specific purpose is over. If he's kept on to the end of the season that should be it, and Munster should be thankful to have him that long. But if he's there next season, impeding the development of McCarthy, it will make a mockery of the medical joker reason, and of the whole player development rationale for players moving provinces.

How about we release Mathewson. then we decide that Cronin isn't good enough so we need a new Scrum half.
I hear Mathewson is out of contract.....

Pepp1989 · 19-02-2019 10:58AM

Zzippy wrote:

Munster got a medical joker for a specific purpose. He's worked out, fine, and proved a very capable player. But that specific purpose is over. If he's kept on to the end of the season that should be it, and Munster should be thankful to have him that long. But if he's there next season, impeding the development of McCarthy, it will make a mockery of the medical joker reason, and of the whole player development rationale for players moving provinces.

Not like it hasn't happened before in the system. Leinster were given clearance to sign Fardy exclusively as a lock as they needed one and had and still have plenty of Irish back row talent. I wonder how many times Fardy has played back row for them?

No scrum half realistically plays 80mins bar the odd exception. McCarthy will get plenty of game time with alby in a World Cup year.

Eod100 · 19-02-2019 10:59AM

Zzippy wrote: »

Munster got a medical joker for a specific purpose. He's worked out, fine, and proved a very capable player. But that specific purpose is over. If he's kept on to the end of the season that should be it, and Munster should be thankful to have him that long. But if he's there next season, impeding the development of McCarthy, it will make a mockery of the medical joker reason, and of the whole player development rationale for players moving provinces.

Presumably they would have to get sign-off from IRFU for extension of NIE player though?

The Lost Sheep · 19-02-2019 11:05AM

A new born king to see POM POM POM POM POM

phog wrote: »

Our next two Pro14 games are in the international window and they're pressure games - both away in Wales where we have to win to stay ahead of Glasgow.

I clearly wasnt referring to this season.

phog wrote: »

I know that but I gave two as an example of two during the international window where there is a bit of pressure to stay ahead of Glasgow..

He can't see into the future so can't say how much pressure we'll be under for any game next season.

It's a world cup season so very different to any other. We'll be under less pressure than a normal season. Its very obvious what i was referring to

Pepp1989 wrote: »

Alby has made a massive impact. Should be doing all they can to try and keep him. Going by JVG comments, he is having a great influence on the squad also.

Would love to see him kept for another year. Hopefully bringing on McCarthy and Cronin. Murray won't play much next season.

McCarthy has 30+ appearances for Leinster. He will be brought on far more by playing than training with and getting less game time due to Alby being here

Eod100 · 19-02-2019 11:21AM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

McCarthy has 30+ appearances for Leinster. He will be brought on far more by playing than training with and getting less game time due to Alby being here

He has but only 5 starts and that's over a few seasons.

Zzippy · 19-02-2019 12:07PM

A new born king to see POM POM POM POM POM

Pepp1989 wrote: »

Not like it hasn't happened before in the system. Leinster were given clearance to sign Fardy exclusively as a lock as they needed one and had and still have plenty of Irish back row talent. I wonder how many times Fardy has played back row for them?

No scrum half realistically plays 80mins bar the odd exception. McCarthy will get plenty of game time with alby in a World Cup year.

He'll get a lot more though if Mathewson isn't here. Imagine John Cooney had signed for Connacht, then they signed a medical joker for Marmion and kept him on. Would Cooney have shone as he did, got a move to Ulster and played for Ireland? McCarthy was signed as a backup to Murray, not as a backup to a backup for Murray.

Eod100 wrote: »

Presumably they would have to get sign-off from IRFU for extension of NIE player though?

Yes. And presumably it will not be granted past the end of the season, given the McCarthy move.

phog · 19-02-2019 12:31PM

The Lost Sheep wrote: »

I clearly wasnt referring to this season.

It's a world cup season so very different to any other. We'll be under less pressure than a normal season. Its very obvious what i was referring to

McCarthy has 30+ appearances for Leinster. He will be brought on far more by playing than training with and getting less game time due to Alby being here

I know - I stated that in a subsequent post that you just quoted.

But until we know the fixtures and the conferences for next season then you're guessing at best.

shootermacg · 19-02-2019 12:36PM

Guess Who's Back, Back Again? JJ's Back, Tell a Friend

If Taute goes at the end of the season, how many non IQ players/project will we actually have in the team?

Eod100 · 19-02-2019 12:42PM

Here ya go:

Tomtom364 wrote: »

Current NIQs

Botha

Klyne - August 2019 Qualified

Cloete

Marshall - November 2019 Qualified

Matthewson - No Contract

Taute - No Contract

Tomtom364 · 19-02-2019 12:47PM

Psycho Killer - "Hands Away" (Prop-Prop-Prrrroppp-Prop, Prop-Prop-Prop-Prrrrrrop-Prop)

Zzippy wrote: »

He'll get a lot more though if Mathewson isn't here. Imagine John Cooney had signed for Connacht, then they signed a medical joker for Marmion and kept him on. Would Cooney have shone as he did, got a move to Ulster and played for Ireland? McCarthy was signed as a backup to Murray, not as a backup to a backup for Murray.

Yes. And presumably it will not be granted past the end of the season, given the McCarthy move.

Has this ever been stated?
Was Cronin not given his new deal before McCarthy was signed?

I'm not saying this wasn't the case I just think people are making far too much of a leap.

McCarthy being signed from 3rd choice at Leinster to parachute into "2nd choice", which will have the most game time next season lets be honest, at Munster doesn't really make alot of sense.

I for one hope Matthewson gets extended till the end of the season, He has been fantastic for Munster since joining and offered an option far far superior to the other scrum halves available. If he is also helping Cronin and the academy lads develop then even better.

(Also, partly because on a personal level I hate seeing any player out of contract in March, very unlikely for them to pick anything up untill the following season and dosnt help them sell themselves.)

I'd love for Munster to be able to hold onto him even just till Christmas next year as I think Cronin and McCarthy arnt enough for the first half of the season next year. It could take awhile for either of them to step up to the plate and Id much rather Munster dont lag behind in the League or Europe and end up playing catch up all season.

Keeping Matthewson as an experienced general for the start of next season and to help to develop Cronin and McCarthy, particularly into the second half of next season when I'd really want one to of them to be taking over at 9 while Murray is at the 6 nations would be an ideal scenario in my opinion.

And Ill say it outright, I don't care about Leinster having Fardy as a "second row", he should be resigned to get them past the world cup at the very least.
And Ulster should have kept Pienaar.

I appreciate the sentiment that the IRFU want to develop players for the national team, but you need people like this to bring in their experience to the clubs to help develop young players around them which in turn benefits the national team.
And if it helps keep the Irish clubs more competitive and winning silverware, how is that a bad thing?

Munster Team Talk Thread VI - Stander Up and Fight

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