MPs quitting Labour & Conservative parties discussion thread

prawnsambo wrote: »

So you're saying that it has been a problem for years? And that's some sort of excuse for continuing to ignore it?

I'm asking why those who have said it's been a problem for years, ignored it up until now? That have said it's institutional after all.

Was it because it suited them? Or because these are exaggerations to oust Corbyn?

You can see the beauty of the tactic. If it's successful it will get rid of Corbyn and split his base leaving space for the centre to take control of the party again.

MrMusician18 wrote: »

Or they could be exaggerating?
You can't claim this abuse is institutional, but have kept quiet for years.
Unless they were complicit in the cover up?

There's a lot more arguing for it in order to get rid of Corbyn. The center left media find him distasteful, and the right media think he's dangerous.

That's why it's an issue.

You have to look at examples of how Corbyn has been leading the party with the accusations of antisemitism thrown at him and the party. As I said before he is either the unluckiest person in that he finds himself around these issues when he himself isn't antisemitic.

There is this example,

Corbyn in antisemitism row after backing artist behind 'offensive' mural

Jeremy Corbyn was embroiled in a fresh antisemitism row on Friday after conceding he was wrong to support a graffiti artist whose “offensive” work was scrubbed off a wall in London’s East End.

In a Facebook post in 2012, Corbyn offered his backing to Los Angeles-based street artist Mear One, whose mural, featuring several known antisemitic tropes, was due to be removed after complaints.

Mear One said on his Facebook page: “Tomorrow they want to buff my mural Freedom of Expression. London Calling, Public art.”

Corbyn replied: “Why? You are in good company. Rockerfeller [sic] destroyed Diego Viera’s [sic] mural because it includes a picture of Lenin.”

“In 2012, Jeremy was responding to concerns about the removal of public art on the grounds of freedom of speech,” said a statement released by the Labour party on Friday. “However, the mural was offensive, used antisemitic imagery, which has no place in our society, and it is right that it was removed.”

So in this case he didn't look at the mural but he supported the right of free speech, unlucky.

Then we have this,

He recently admitted being a member of a closed Facebook group called Palestine Live, in which a number of antisemitic posts appeared – though he did not join in the conversations and left the group in 2015.

When the existence of the group was revealed earlier this month, Corbyn told reporters: “Had I seen it, of course, I would have challenged it straight away, but I actually don’t spend all my time reading social media.

So he joined a Facebook group that shared antisemitic posts, but he didn't see it because if he had he would have challenged it. Such a shame that he always just seems to be a little late to challenge that antisemitism.

Then we have this case,

Jeremy Corbyn: MPs 'not under threat' at Labour party conference

Jeremy Corbyn has insisted that his MPs are not under any threat within Labour's conference in Liverpool.

His comment came after Jewish MP Luciana Berger was pictured flanked by police protection as she attended an event on the fringe of the annual gathering.

Ms Berger was provided with protection after police carried out a risk assessment. The decision was made after threats and abuse were directed at the MP in the wake of her criticisms of the Labour leadership's handling of the anti-Semitism row.

In an interview with Channel 4 News, Mr Corbyn was shown pictures of the Liverpool Wavertree MP and asked whether he felt concerned that she felt under threat attending her own party's conference.

He replied: "There is no threat being made in this conference to anybody."

We are a party that is open and inclusive and oppose anti-Semitism as a totally united party. I've opposed anti-Semitism and racism all my life and will continue to do so"

You know what was missing here in his quotes? He never said that what is happening is unacceptable and he is sorry that one of his MPs should need police protection at her own parties conference. You will also note that he is saying there is no threat to anybody in the conference, but yet just outside in Liverpool she needs protection? Are Liverpudlians known to be antisemitic and are Jewish people in danger in Liverpool? She is in the city that she represents and yet she needs protection? Why at the conference and not at any other time? Look at the Labour press office reply,

A Labour spokesman later pointed out that the Jewish Labour Movement rally where Ms Berger received her police escort took place in a venue outside the conference area.

The spokesman said: "We support whatever security is necessary for any of our MPs.

"We have had one fatal incident involving one of our MPs. There have been extremely serious threats made against our MPs - including Jeremy, in the case of the trial of the killer from Finsbury Park - from far-right white supremacists."

And this is why there are the accusations that they are not taking it seriously. See how they gloss over the fact that she received abuse from Labour supporters because of her opposition to Corbyn and that is why she needed the protection at the Labour conference.

Here are some more examples that doesn't make Labour look great.

Union boss: Labour MPs complaining of antisemitism are smearing Corbyn

Some of the article makes for grim reading for Labour,

On Wednesday about 40 Labour MPs and peers marched in support of their Jewish colleague Ruth Smeeth before she gave evidence at an expulsion hearing against an activist accused of berating her at the launch of Labour’s antisemitism inquiry.

MPs including the shadow environment secretary, Sue Hayman, the former shadow Northern Ireland secretary Owen Smith and the Jewish Labour movement chair, Luciana Berger, formed a protective ring around Smeeth as she entered the hearing in London.

The Labour activist Marc Wadsworth will have his case heard by the NCC, which has the power to expel members. The hearing comes 22 months after the first complaint was made against Wadsworth, who challenged Smeeth at a the launch of Shami Chakrabati’s inquiry into antisemitism, accusing her of working “hand in hand” with the media.

Labour Against the Witch-Hunt, a campaign group set up to protest against expulsions, turned out to support Wadsworth at the hearing in Westminster. Several people shouted: “Free Palestine,” as the MPs walked past.

Berger said the MPs who had joined Smeeth were “looking for action” against antisemitism. “Warm words are nice, but in and of themselves they are not enough, and that’s why we’re here with our colleague Ruth Smeeth. She has an incredible amount of support,” she said.

MPs said they had decided to support Smeeth because she had initially been told by the party she would be responsible for her own security walking to the hearing.

And then finally this story from a week or so ago,

Labour investigates Liverpool members over 'bullying' of Luciana Berger

Labour’s deputy leader, Tom Watson, has said the party is investigating the conduct of some members of the Liverpool Wavertree branch over what he said was “bullying” of the local MP, Luciana Berger.

A motion of no-confidence in Berger over claims she had been disloyal to Jeremy Corbyn which had been due to be debated by the local party was withdrawn on Friday amid a row over antisemitism.

Local members had told the Guardian that one of Berger’s critics had posted on Facebook that the MP should be “exposed for the disruptive Zionist she is”, and that evidence of antisemitism had undermined what some viewed as legitimate criticism.

But in a statement released on Sunday, the executive of the Liverpool Wavertree constituency Labour party rejected accusations of political bullying, and said claims of antisemitism were a “false and slanderous accusation”.

I will take any claims that this issue is being overblown with a pinch of salt when you actually see the amount of articles from supposedly friendly media to the Labour party.

Bambi wrote: »

Maybe people would respond if you posted a link to it?

When I'm at my desk I'll look for it, but someone also posted a speech in the house of commons by someone who personally experience it. What's your issue with that?

edit: i see Enzokk also referred to it.

Enzokk wrote: »

You have to look at examples of how Corbyn has been leading the party with the accusations of antisemitism thrown at him and the party. As I said before he is either the unluckiest person in that he finds himself around these issues when he himself isn't antisemitic.

There is this example,

Corbyn in antisemitism row after backing artist behind 'offensive' mural



So in this case he didn't look at the mural but he supported the right of free speech, unlucky.

Then we have this,



So he joined a Facebook group that shared antisemitic posts, but he didn't see it because if he had he would have challenged it. Such a shame that he always just seems to be a little late to challenge that antisemitism.

Then we have this case,

Jeremy Corbyn: MPs 'not under threat' at Labour party conference



You know what was missing here in his quotes? He never said that what is happening is unacceptable and he is sorry that one of his MPs should need police protection at her own parties conference. You will also note that he is saying there is no threat to anybody in the conference, but yet just outside in Liverpool she needs protection? Are Liverpudlians known to be antisemitic and are Jewish people in danger in Liverpool? She is in the city that she represents and yet she needs protection? Why at the conference and not at any other time? Look at the Labour press office reply,



And this is why there are the accusations that they are not taking it seriously. See how they gloss over the fact that she received abuse from Labour supporters because of her opposition to Corbyn and that is why she needed the protection at the Labour conference.

Here are some more examples that doesn't make Labour look great.

Union boss: Labour MPs complaining of antisemitism are smearing Corbyn

Some of the article makes for grim reading for Labour,



And then finally this story from a week or so ago,

Labour investigates Liverpool members over 'bullying' of Luciana Berger



I will take any claims that this issue is being overblown with a pinch of salt when you actually see the amount of articles from supposedly friendly media to the Labour party.

The guardian wants rid of Corbyn and wants a blairite in. The story is being pushed relentlessly by those that hate Corbyn and all he stands for on the right, and the centre left.

The real issue is that the UK establishment fear a Corbyn government even more than Brexit.

I don't particularly like Corbyn just to note, but all this anti semitism stuff appears after the centre left lost the party and will just vanish again the day a centrist gets back in the leadership. Which would be strange, considering it's seemingly an institutional problem for Labour.

MrMusician18 wrote: »

The guardian wants rid of Corbyn and wants a blairite in. The story is being pushed relentlessly by those that hate Corbyn and all he stands for on the right, and the centre left.

The real issue is that the UK establishment fear a Corbyn government even more than Brexit.

I don't particularly like Corbyn just to note, but all this anti semitism stuff appears after the centre left lost the party and will just vanish again the day a centrist gets back in the leadership. Which would be strange, considering it's seemingly an institutional problem for Labour.

Corbyn has made Labour unelectable as clearly demonstrated by recent polls on voting intentions and leader approval ratings.

BobbyBobberson wrote: »

My own two cents on the Anti Semite stuff, I don't doubt that it exists at some level within Labour. Corbyn has been sketchy on some things while also there is evidence to the contrary where he can use as evidence that he is not AS. Overall I think hes been poor on it.

What I cannot get past is that the reason these are all leaving is because of this. It just seems the AS stick is used because they do not like Corbyn and his inner circle. Personally I think if him and JMcD left and were replaced with Blairites then you would hear very little of the AS problem again.

It's not the only reason. The brexit stance of the Labour party has been referenced as well. The fact that the process that was supposed to happen where a second referendum would be supported if a GE was not possible has been forgotten or long-fingered into oblivion. There are more, but since their website is still down, I can't link them.

listermint wrote: »

Lets park the AS stuff to the side for a second.

Corbyn and his merry band of ultra left have been the single worst opposition party in british living history.

2+ years of Tories making mistake after mistake, month on month, week on week and sometimes the same day. And corbyn and his group were utterly useless.

At the Labour Party conference the got the motions to push for second referendum but he left it off speech after speech and correspondence on purpose.

The Majority of Labour voters are remainers according to all polls conducted.

So in short this had to happen, and its not this blairite crap that gets bandied around. Its basically something the Labour voters are asking for. Corbyn is useless his leading Labour leaders are useless and they are actively subverting their own parties democratic will.

Corbyn is useless and needs to go imo, because he's such an ineffective leader of the opposition. No one is challenging him because they know he'll win the vote of the members, even if they are remainers. That's why they're trying to force him to resign.

The AS stuff is just a lever the centerists are using to pry him from the leadership since nothing else seems to be sticking. That's because the party themselves are split on Brexit and it's doubtful any leader would be able to unite Labour when so many MPs come from leave constituencies.

Imreoir2 wrote: »

While I am inclined to agree with you, and I think it would be absurd to claim that there is no anti-semitisim in the Labour party, one wonders just how much of an issue it really is?

It is clear that Labour and it's leadership are not openly anti-semitic and are certainly not persuing clearly anti-semitic policies. It seems to come back to an issue of culture and the opinions of some members.

It's bizarre that none of these 7 who are so concerned about AS criticised teh defilement of Marx's grave, which has now been desecrated twice in as many weeks. Was he not Jewish?

ancapailldorcha wrote: »

If you make a claim, the onus is on you to back it up if asked. No more of this nonsense please.

There's a video there, there's a video posted from parliament of an MP talking about what happened personally to her.

There's posters claiming it's not an issue and there's a video in thread of an MP describing her experience of it, it's backed up.