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MPs quitting Labour & Conservative parties discussion thread

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  • Registered Users Posts: 13,375 ✭✭✭✭prawnsambo


    quokula wrote: »
    It’s worth noting that Joan Ryan is not Jewish. And the fact that criticising an English white Christian MP for her political beliefs (and the fact she’s been caught on camera discussing taking bribes from Israeli donors to act in the interest of the Israeli government) can be twisted into being called Antisemitism shows just how ridiculous the argument is.
    She's certainly been called Jewish. Along with certain other epithets that can't be repeated here. And in the spirit of my providing evidence, you'd obviously have no problem providing a link to the assertion above about bribes. Kind of a strong accusation to make without them I'd have thought.


  • Moderators, Category Moderators, Science, Health & Environment Moderators, Social & Fun Moderators, Society & Culture Moderators Posts: 37,883 CMod ✭✭✭✭ancapailldorcha


    Cut out the bickering and petty sniping. Posts deleted.

    We sat again for an hour and a half discussing maps and figures and always getting back to that most damnable creation of the perverted ingenuity of man - the County of Tyrone.

    H. H. Asquith



  • Registered Users Posts: 36,237 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Have to say, the more I consume on this the more I’m convinced it’s a complete non issue. Worst type of politics, anything to get rid of Corbyn. Very very disappointing.


  • Registered Users Posts: 23,246 ✭✭✭✭Dyr


    LuckyLloyd wrote: »
    Have to say, the more I consume on this the more I’m convinced it’s a complete non issue. Worst type of politics, anything to get rid of Corbyn. Very very disappointing.

    Pretty much, any of the specific allegations I've seen have been paper thin


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭hill16bhoy


    Have there been any condemnations from politicians of the assult on Corbyn today?

    As well the online death threats against him?

    You'd think this stuff would be big news, but apparently not.

    It seems some people are fair game for this stuff - specifically Corbyn.

    James Cleverly of the Tories thought it was all a big laugh on Twitter.

    https://twitter.com/JamesCleverly/status/1102298424236564480


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  • Registered Users Posts: 21,204 ✭✭✭✭Water John


    No politician should be subject to physical assault. It is reported on in the Guardian.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/03/man-arrested-after-allegedly-throwing-egg-at-labour-jeremy-corbyn-london


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭hill16bhoy


    Water John wrote: »
    No politician should be subject to physical assault. It is reported on in the Guardian.
    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/mar/03/man-arrested-after-allegedly-throwing-egg-at-labour-jeremy-corbyn-london

    Have the death threats been reported?


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 7,070 ✭✭✭Franz Von Peppercorn


    Riley has gone a bit nuts on twitter alright but her tweet was pointing out that Owen had justified an egg attack on an actual Nazi previously. Is she comparing Corbyn to a Nazi? Not really although I could see why people infer that.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 1,029 ✭✭✭hill16bhoy


    [HTML][/HTML]
    Riley has gone a bit nuts on twitter alright but her tweet was pointing out that Owen had justified an egg attack on an actual Nazi previously. Is she comparing Corbyn to a Nazi? Not really although I could see why people infer that.

    She's certainly leaving it open to being legitimately interpreted that way.

    As is James Cleverly.

    Anti-Corbyn MP Siobhan McDonagh, prompted by BBC's John Humphreys, this morning agreed with the host that to be anti-capitalist you have to be anti-Semitic.

    As well as being completely ignorant of the history of her party, I'd consider what both she and Humphreys said to be a carte blanche example of anti-Semitism.

    To class all Jews as "capitalists", I mean, how anti-Semitic can you get?

    Yet McDonagh is a friend of Joan Ryan, and has been pushing the narrative that Labour is institutionally anti-Semitic.

    She may have just confirmed her own views, although not in the way she intended.

    But we won't hear anything more about it, because McDonagh's anti-Semitism falls outside the official narrative - which is that only a certain type of person in Labour can be guilty of anti-Semitism.

    And Humphreys was as bad for suggesting the trope.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    Riley has gone a bit nuts on twitter alright but her tweet was pointing out that Owen had justified an egg attack on an actual Nazi previously. Is she comparing Corbyn to a Nazi? Not really although I could see why people infer that.

    TBF Riley gets a lot of abuse from Corbyn loons online so can understand why she can blow a fuse now and then.


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  • Registered Users Posts: 904 ✭✭✭ilkhanid


    9th Labour MP gone, Ian Austin

    citing anti-antisemitism and a "broken" Labour Party

    Speaking of which......

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/may/28/equality-body-launches-investigation-of-labour-antisemitism-claims


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Chris Williamson - re-admitted and rejected in two days. Labour's leadership is more than tone deaf, it's wilfully flying in the face of the party rank and file - when Momentum and the mainstream of party MPs are on the same side you know they've (NEC) got it wrong again.

    https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jun/28/labour-mps-make-third-attempt-to-censure-chris-williamson
    More than 120 Labour MPs and peers led by the deputy leader, Tom Watson, demanded on Thursday that Williamson be ejected for suggesting the party was “too apologetic” about antisemitism. It also followed the submission of a separate letter signed by nearly 70 Labour staff members expressing their anger at the readmission.

    On Friday, the shadow Brexit secretary, Keir Starmer, added his voice to the call for action, saying he was “deeply concerned about the decision to readmit Chris Williamson to the Labour party”.

    Starmer tweeted: “I do not understand the rationale behind the decision. The NEC should overrule it and refer it to the NCC. The EHRC [Equality and Human Rights Commission] should also be invited to look at the specifics of this case.”

    The motion, signed by MPs including Yvette Cooper, Margaret Hodge, Wes Streeting, David Lammy and Diana Johnson, calls for Williamson to have the whip withdrawn for 12 months under the standing orders of the parliamentary Labour party (PLP) and for the case to be referred to the party’s parliamentary committee when it meets Corbyn next week. If approved, the case would go to a vote of the full PLP at Westminster the following week.

    The motion states: “Due to the exceptional circumstances in this case we are of the view that the allegation of bringing the Labour party into disrepute made against Chris Williamson warrants an investigation by the parliamentary committee under this standing order and full consideration given to a recommendation of removal of the whip to the PLP. We therefore seek to ask the PLP to take action to suspend the whip from Chris Williamson for a period of a year.”


  • Registered Users Posts: 13,023 ✭✭✭✭Joe_ Public


    I find it utterly perplexing and disturbing that the Labour party is twisting itself in knots over this issue, when it should be uniting to make all the ground the disintegrating tories are currently busy shedding. I understand the point that Corbyn wanted to stay removed from the process here, but there comes a point you've got to use your political judgement and know when to step in to limit the damage. Hardly augurs well for his future as a leader while he allows all this to fester. Truly bewildering.


  • Registered Users Posts: 625 ✭✭✭Cal4567


    I find it utterly perplexing and disturbing that the Labour party is twisting itself in knots over this issue, when it should be uniting to make all the ground the disintegrating tories are currently busy shedding. I understand the point that Corbyn wanted to stay removed from the process here, but there comes a point you've got to use your political judgement and know when to step in to limit the damage. Hardly augurs well for his future as a leader while he allows all this to fester. Truly bewildering.

    It's Race. The Labour Party has been twisting itself in knots over this since the 80s.


  • Registered Users Posts: 12,033 ✭✭✭✭Rjd2


    Williamson is a proud antisemite and a Corbyn loyalist so this is to be expected.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    BBC Panorama has a programme tonight at 9 PM which apparently contains new and damning material about Labours ongoing anti-Semitic tendencies.
    Eight former Labour officials, including seven from the complaints and disputes department, have spoken to BBC Panorama, to discuss antisemitism in the Labour party. They all worked for the party over the last four years, and all have now left. Four are speaking out despite having signed NDAs with the Labour party. In total Panorama has spoken to more than 20 Labour officials, which includes many of the officials who have been dealing with antisemitism complaints since 2015.

    Their testimony reveals:

    A complaints and disciplinary system that had to deal with a huge increase in antisemitism complaints since Jeremy Corbyn became leader in 2015.

    Allegations that there were substantial disagreements within the party about what constituted antisemitism.

    Allegations of interference in the complaints process from the leader’s office, including a claim that there was even one occasion when complaints were directly processed by aides in Jeremy Corbyn’s Westminster Office.

    Discussion by the general secretary about interference with the national constitution committee (NCC), the independent body within the Labour party that has the final say over expulsions.

    Obviously Labour Momentum are on the war path about the programme attacking the reporter who Corbyn praised in the House of Commons in 2002.


  • Registered Users Posts: 36,237 ✭✭✭✭LuckyLloyd


    Gave it 25 mins.

    By the show’s definition they would probably reckon I’m anti - Semitic, on the basis that I think Israel are taking the ****ing piss, a two state solution is required and the Zionist movement bastardises and manipulates the effective International politics of the issue.

    If the constant talk about how “nasty” and “unpleasant” everything is since Corbyn took over, surely they would catch something clean and clear at a labour meeting? Someone being abhorrently racist? Instead it’s all second hand recollections and hearsay.

    This seems to be the apex of a couple of different factors:

    - Jews / supporters of the Israeli state holding an extremely broad and loose definition of anti semitism
    - Jews / supporters of Israel being extremely concerned about a committed advocate of a two state solution becoming prime minister
    - Conservatives / Blairites looking for anything to piggy back onto to derail Corbyn

    Obviously if emails and verbal accusations have been amended or fabricated as part of the making of the documentary (as Labour claim) it just makes already thin content disappear into the ether of irrelevance.


  • Closed Accounts Posts: 40,061 ✭✭✭✭Harry Palmr


    Just announced that Frank Field running (effectively as an independent) at the next GE.


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